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Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?
vanity | April 21, 2007 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.

One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.

All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.

FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

Do you really expect me to do that?


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: abortion; aliens; banglist; bernardkerik; bugzapper; bugzapperinventor; bugzapperthread; byebyerinos; bzzzt; classicthread; damties; dragqueens4rudy; elections; fr; freedom; freepercide; freepersturnedtroll; freepicide; giuliani; globalwarming; gojimgo; greatzot; gungrabber; herekitty; hizzoner; homosexualagenda; howlermonkeys; howlermonkeyzot; howlinzot; hsw; immaturity; jrrocks; julieannie; julieanniebotsmad; lemmings; liberty; lookatmenow; massresignation; newt; no; nonopus; nopiapspleez; onepercentersgone; onepercentersrule; opus; opuscentral; peachcompost; piapers; pridegoethb4; prolife; propertyrights; propiaps; rabidfringeshame; realmenofgenius; rino; rinorudy; rinos; rossperot; rudy; rudyhasalisp; rudyinadress; rudymcromney; rudytherino; ruhroh; runfredrun; savagegotitrite; selfimmolation; socialism; socialist; springcleaning; springhousecleaning; stoprudy; stoprudy2008; suicidebymod; supo; sweepuptime; takingoutthetrash; thanksjim; themanwhosavednyc; thtoprudy; travesty; undeadthread; vikingkitties; weneedfred; wideawake; wideawakes; zap; zapper; zot; zotbelt
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To: OMalley
Hey stranger than me.

I've been missing you. Thought maybe you ran off to a desert island with a boy toy. lolol

5,101 posted on 04/23/2007 12:45:15 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: Luke21
This is the party Reagan built.

I'm not so sure of that. Reagan built his own coalition. Reagan was Reagan. "He was a man, take him for all in all, I shall not look upon his like again."

5,102 posted on 04/23/2007 12:46:26 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Given my 6 years of efforts to defend conservatism

Please tell us then why you would support a candidate with Giuliani's record of abortion and gun control which are CLEARLY not conservative.

5,103 posted on 04/23/2007 12:47:27 PM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: wagglebee
Sounds toooooo much like DU.

Unbelievable.

5,104 posted on 04/23/2007 12:47:36 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: Jim Robinson; rockrr
I haven’t stated anything about who I support or do not support in the upcoming election/primary. Nothing about what my position is on abortion, death penalty, etc. Where do you get my "blind support for an abortionist" from...who is becoming hysterical here?

What I have stated is that REASONABLE PEOPLE should be allowed to discuss things REASONABLY

This is your site - I was wrong to sign up - I’ve known for years your ‘mission statement’ is totally hypercritical. It seems to me the one getting hysterical here is you with your demand all should 'tow one line' - but, it's obviously your right to do so - you control all - you delete unwanted posts, ban those that refuse to "tow your line", etc., ...(it's called censorship) so, yes, THAT IS STALINIST. It's the very definition.

You can scream from the mountain top as loud as you want - BUT, facts are facts...you behave like STALIN... Continue screaming like a 2 year old child, argue with the direct evidence - I stopped arguing with 2 year olds sometime ago.

rockrr:

Since up until this post I haven't "spewed" anything other than a request for "reasoned debate" - I question which of of us is the brighter of the two...But I understand - I may not totally agree with everything you or Jim believes - therefore I'm to be subjected to personal attacks, profanity, vulgarity, threats, racial or religious bigotry.

See it's allowed if it's Jim doing it - or someone supporting Jim doing it... If this post ever sees the light of day - well fill your boots, rant and rave to your hearts content...I'm done - I'll not be back to point out the nuttyness of your future rantings...seriously Bye now, oh, have fun 'yall

5,105 posted on 04/23/2007 12:47:59 PM PDT by Dances With No One
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To: wagglebee

I want to go. Got a link?


5,106 posted on 04/23/2007 12:48:35 PM PDT by Crawdad (I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no class.)
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To: jla
I waive you of the need to ping me when mentioning my name in regards to this.

However, on your point #3, Mia was doing more than just stating a so-called "plausible theory" (which I provided a counterargument to), she was using a reference for that theory her own previous vanity. In other words, since she was using herself as a citation, she was endorsing the theory, not just stating it.

But that's a nitpick.

Your characterizations of the deleted posts are pretty much correct. The third was mine, deleted on my request after I was asked to do so by Mia. I made the deletion request as a gesture of goodwill -- however, I saw no legitimate reason that the original posts of Mia should have been pulled. If she wanted to get her facts straight, she should have done so prior to posting or else post a correction after the fact. I have never, nor will I ever, ask a post to be pulled because I made an error.

5,107 posted on 04/23/2007 12:48:53 PM PDT by kevkrom (A vote for Guiliani is a vote to kill conservatism.)
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To: politicalwit

5,108 posted on 04/23/2007 12:49:23 PM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: processing please hold

Actually, the DUmmies have more integrety than the disgruntled FRiberals. When the DUmmies want to trash us, they do it on an open forum, they are not hiding on some secret thread that only INVITED members can access.


5,109 posted on 04/23/2007 12:49:28 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: EternalVigilance

BS - you just divide, sheeps, goats, doesn’t matter to a fifth columnist disruptor like you.


5,110 posted on 04/23/2007 12:49:56 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: politicalwit
I don’t recall seeing one Viking Kitty in this entire thread. Did I miss something or is this a new record?

Zotting a DUmmie troll is one thing... fellow FReepers going off the deep end is not a cause for mirth.

5,111 posted on 04/23/2007 12:50:01 PM PDT by kevkrom (A vote for Guiliani is a vote to kill conservatism.)
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To: Dances With No One

I’d like to be the first to say, good riddance.


5,112 posted on 04/23/2007 12:50:12 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. Ž)
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To: Dances With No One

Will the ‘opus’s never end?

Just say GOODBYE!


5,113 posted on 04/23/2007 12:50:57 PM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Compromise is one thing. Clearing out all the issues I favor and letting the dark side win on each of them is quite another. Rudy is the worst candidate we’ve run since John B. Anderson.
5,114 posted on 04/23/2007 12:51:00 PM PDT by Luke21 (No Rudy. No way.)
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To: kevkrom
... fellow FReepers going off the deep end is not a cause for mirth.

It is if that is your goal.

5,115 posted on 04/23/2007 12:51:00 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: Jim Robinson; All

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know - I won’t be missed - got it...:o))


5,116 posted on 04/23/2007 12:52:34 PM PDT by Dances With No One
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To: Dances With No One

Like a moth to a candle they simply can’t stay away.


5,117 posted on 04/23/2007 12:54:00 PM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: Dances With No One

I’m not a lady so see if you can figure this out. Never mind, I’ll get banned for blackguarding.


5,118 posted on 04/23/2007 12:54:23 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: Dances With No One
it's obviously your right to do so - you control all - you delete unwanted posts, ban those that refuse to "tow your line", etc., ...(it's called censorship) so, yes, THAT IS STALINIST. It's the very definition.

Well there's your problem - you're just not very bright. Why else would you admit that it's Jim's right to do as he wishes, yet contradict yourself in the very same sentence by claiming that very behavior is Stalinist?

5,119 posted on 04/23/2007 12:54:23 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: 68 grunt
BS - you just divide, sheeps, goats, doesn’t matter to a fifth columnist disruptor like you.

I support conservatism, and those who advance it. I know that galls you, but there's nothing I can do about that, troll.

5,120 posted on 04/23/2007 12:54:23 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (Laws that infringe on unalienable rights are not laws at all...they are in fact lawless edicts.)
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To: Luke21

Government, in my humble opinion, should be formed to secure and to enlarge the exercise of the natural rights of its members; and every government, which has not this in view, as its principal object, is not a government of the legitimate kind.
James Wilson, Lectures on Law, 1791

I will not let the dark side win without a fight.


5,121 posted on 04/23/2007 12:54:29 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: wagglebee
That is really beneath contempt what they’re doing.
5,122 posted on 04/23/2007 12:55:23 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: jla

Yet you don’t bother mentioning THIS little screed:

To be clear, to avoid voting for Rudy, (who will appoint strict constructionist judges and prosecute the war with all he has-what more can a president functionally do?), you will, in fact, be placing your de facto vote for hillary clinton, inept, corrupt and seditious, who WILL SURELY NOT ONLY APPOINT PRO-ABORTION JUDGES, SHE WILL MAKE SURE ABORTION IS MORE READILY AVAILABLE THAN IT IS NOW. And that doesn’t even begin to explore all the other ways she will put our children’s lives in peril.

If this isn’t immoral, irrational and self-destructive, I don’t know what is.

*****
She is trying to make pro-abortion Giuliani into a pro-life candidate.

That whole statement is over the top, and completely disgusting. A man who repeatedly breaks marriage VOWS can NOT be trusted, so why would anyone care what he promises about judges? We see what he has DONE, and it proves he is totally pro-abortion.


5,123 posted on 04/23/2007 12:56:38 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: Crawdad; wagglebee

You can do a google search and find it yourself. No need for waggle to post it and risk getting banned.


5,124 posted on 04/23/2007 12:56:53 PM PDT by NinoFan
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To: Dances With No One
You are the one who is ranting like a child. You call people “two year olds” and “Stalinists”. You wouldn’t know Stalin if he bit you. This is a conservative message board. Are you a conservative?

Most people supporting Rudy have a strong bent towards national security. They believe that since he cleaned up New York he can clean up the world. Maybe you aren’t a Rudy supporter. But your screaming and yelling is what we’ve come to expect from them.

If I go to DU and insult people and call them names and defy the moderator, guess what will happen. That’s the rules of the game. Be civil.

There are people still here who support Rudy, or Rockefeller Republicanism or liberalism in a civil manner. But a diatribe is a diatribe, whether it be a single sentence or a thousand words. Peace be unto you.

5,125 posted on 04/23/2007 12:58:13 PM PDT by Luke21 (No Rudy. No way.)
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To: NinoFan

It’s common here to post a link to sites being discussed. Please post the link or stop talking about it.
Thanks.


5,126 posted on 04/23/2007 12:58:39 PM PDT by Crawdad (I cried because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no class.)
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To: Spiff

“They run off to MadIvan’s temper tantrum induced site”

Hmm?

As for trolls:

I’ve given JR’s post a bit of thought over the weekend and I like it.

One of the bad potentials about forums is that people come in to disrupt and if they keep their heads about them for a while they can be seen as ‘regulars’ and not ‘trolls’ when they erupt.

We’ve gotten way past the stage where the flagrant trolls come in, spit their venom on day 1 and take their zot. Now we have the mole people; people who come in and bind themselves into the community. Some of these guys try to nudge FR leftward; others, I’m convinced, try and emulate the hardcore conservative. Wow, they’re so conservative they’ll be happy to see all Democrats in office rather than any Republican left of [insert name here]. Hmm.

A good solid mission statement from member No.1 galvanizes everyone and allows the moles to be zotted. HOWEVER unfortunately, along with the zots the good people who the moles have formed bonds with also often go, and this is a shame.


5,127 posted on 04/23/2007 12:58:59 PM PDT by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
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To: EternalVigilance
I support conservatism, and those who advance it. I know that galls you, but there's nothing I can do about that, troll.

You know I don't believe you. Every time you 'support conservatism' you neutralize conservatives. It could be you're just a piss poor supporter, but I think you do it purposely. You're nothing but a pretend conservative, a fifth columnist, intent upon nothing but division. If you were honest you would consider the criticism. You ain't honest, hence your purpose is pure disruption. Caveat emptor!

5,128 posted on 04/23/2007 12:59:28 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: processing please hold

I am pretty strange LOL!!

Yeah?!! whats a boy toy? LOL!!if i could find a deserted island, im there!! as long as it has internet access;)

hows it going?


5,129 posted on 04/23/2007 12:59:39 PM PDT by OMalley (Just say NO to Rudy "Tootsie" Giuliani-GO Duncan Hunter 08:))
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To: processing please hold
If it’s the same MadIvan as here, how many times has he stomped off FR, a bazillion?

Times have certainly changed. I once got an unexplained, undeserved 3-day time out here because I asserted the United States' superiority over MadIvan's nation of origin. I never figured that one out.

And Pukin Dog has opused - AGAIN. I once got another 3-day timeout once for countering his BS. I didn't cuss or break the rules. I just strongly disagreed with him. The reason given for my timeout was "Stay Away from Pukin Dog".

Times have changed and the tide has turned.

5,130 posted on 04/23/2007 1:00:10 PM PDT by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: Diddle E. Squat

Thompson will NOT run for VP. He said so, and he has integrity.

Jesus never continued to associate with people who refused to repent and change their behavior.


5,131 posted on 04/23/2007 1:00:51 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: No.6

You nailed it!


5,132 posted on 04/23/2007 1:01:00 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: No.6

5,133 posted on 04/23/2007 1:01:16 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Crawdad; wagglebee

I was not talking about the site, so perhaps you should address your concerns again to waggle. Furthermore, I was simply pointing out that it’s not always wise to post links to such sites due to the mods.

Thanks


5,134 posted on 04/23/2007 1:01:25 PM PDT by NinoFan
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To: politicalwit
"Please tell us then why you would support a candidate with Giuliani's record of abortion and gun control which are CLEARLY not conservative."

Some posters don't give a crap about Giulani's record or conservatism. I think they want him because they think he is most likely to bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

5,135 posted on 04/23/2007 1:02:15 PM PDT by ex-snook ("But above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: No.6

Some of those who were zotted didn’t start out as trolls/moles. At least not intentionally. They signed on early, as devout Republicans. They have remained loyal to the party, as they see it. They never had conservative values to begin with. I think it’s been quite a shock to them that the new direction (left) that they’re trying to steer the party, isn’t acceptable here. I think they really believe their plan to liberalize the Republican Party is necessary to save it, and they just can’t understand why conservatives won’t jump on the bandwagon. They have no concept of core values. They honestly believe that party loyalty is a core value. It’s sad.


5,136 posted on 04/23/2007 1:05:33 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. Ž)
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To: Crawdad
Dude, that is gross.

Why? Does the truth make you feel squeamish?

5,137 posted on 04/23/2007 1:05:59 PM PDT by Junior (Free speech is great because it makes it easy to identify the idiots.)
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To: Pukin Dog
Last post. Bye.

adios. Been real, Been fun. Not real fun.

5,138 posted on 04/23/2007 1:06:35 PM PDT by don-o (Proudly posting without reading the thread since 1998.)
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To: 68 grunt

What do you think the forum finds more disruptive: EV’s posts, or your crazed, relentless pursuit of him?

Maybe we should take a poll (though I know your support base has been seriously weakened over the past 48 hours).


5,139 posted on 04/23/2007 1:06:44 PM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (NRA Life Member)
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To: wagglebee

Interesting analysis. Bump.


5,140 posted on 04/23/2007 1:06:48 PM PDT by Kevmo (Duncan Hunter just needs one Rudy G Campaign Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM)
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To: ex-snook

You notice there was no response. Just another drive-by liberal posting. There are no rational or principled rebuttals to the question.


5,141 posted on 04/23/2007 1:07:05 PM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: BykrBayb
I think they really believe their plan to liberalize the Republican Party is necessary to save it, and they just can’t understand why conservatives won’t jump on the bandwagon. They have no concept of core values. They honestly believe that party loyalty is a core value. It’s sad.

That's it in a nutshell - no question about it. Good post.

5,142 posted on 04/23/2007 1:07:14 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Spiff

I am strengthened in my stance FOR Fred and TOTALLY against Giuliani by the character of key players.

Almost without exception, people I have come to dislike are Giuliani supporters. People that I have come to consider friends have been joining the Fred bandwagon, or at least are against Giuliani.


5,143 posted on 04/23/2007 1:07:14 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: Bigh4u2
The post was disturbing enough.

It was. Idiots won't be missed on this site.

5,144 posted on 04/23/2007 1:07:14 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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Comment #5,145 Removed by Moderator

To: wagglebee
Are you aware of the overwhelming historical unlikelihood of Hillary even getting the nomination, much less winning the election?

Overwhelming historical unlikelihood? Puleeze. I seem to recall others assuring me she'd never become my Senator; too much baggage; knows nothing about NY; voters exhausted with the Clinton scandals; she'll never withstand the tough NY press. Couple that with the thousands of horns honking and thumbs up we received when protesting her throughout the State yet here she is the "annointed" front runner for her party. I leave nothing to chance with the Clintons.

5,146 posted on 04/23/2007 1:09:11 PM PDT by StarFan
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To: Jim Robinson

I’ve come late to this discussion.

I disagree with Rudy on many issues, but politics is the art of the possible, not the ideal. you cannot change things without winning elections.

look at the supreme court decision last week upholding the ban on PBA. enough said.

rational discussion of opposing opinions is how progress is made.

If as many accounts have been banned over this as it appears, please close my account as well.


5,147 posted on 04/23/2007 1:09:11 PM PDT by B-bone
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To: BykrBayb

Which makes it all the stranger when they jump on Fred Thompson for supporting Chafee.


5,148 posted on 04/23/2007 1:09:13 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: Spiff

What a pity it is that MadIvan went over, I always enjoyed reading his posts.


5,149 posted on 04/23/2007 1:09:50 PM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: 68 grunt

I have a clear record as a conservative, both on FR and off.

You, on the other hand, only have one schtick here that I’m aware of...and that is posting the same lame “you’re a dispruptor and a divider” stupidity. Over and over and over and over...


5,150 posted on 04/23/2007 1:10:40 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (Laws that infringe on unalienable rights are not laws at all...they are in fact lawless edicts.)
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