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Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?
vanity | April 21, 2007 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.

One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.

All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.

FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

Do you really expect me to do that?


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To: 68 grunt
"stomach turning though it may be. "

A lot of us believe that if you turn your stomach on Rudy, you will get it in the a$$.

5,301 posted on 04/23/2007 2:18:34 PM PDT by ex-snook ("But above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: ex-snook

Beats the demoncrap alternative ...


5,302 posted on 04/23/2007 2:19:17 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: politicalwit
Yep, “The Monkey Business,” and it “sunk” his candidacy. But the Democrats ran a guy who made Hartpence look like the pope four years later, and won.
5,303 posted on 04/23/2007 2:19:50 PM PDT by Luke21 (No Rudy. No way.)
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To: TheKidster

Woo hoo!! Thank you very much, TheKidster!!


5,304 posted on 04/23/2007 2:20:13 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: 68 grunt

I’m a salt of the earth kinda woman, but, give that kind of talk a rest on this site, please. Seeing it posted more than once is annoying.


5,305 posted on 04/23/2007 2:20:31 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: 68 grunt

“This is becoming the antithesis of a place of liberty and freedom, a place where we can fight government corruption. We’ve been completely neutralized by phony con-men like you”

Thank you for your service. But quit making statements that are untrue. The Giuliani GOPrs are the con men and women. If they wanted to stay here and spew liberal policy wonk crap, then they needed to do it without tearing down the conservatives that members of this site look up to and support in the primary. It’s a conservative site, how dense are the Partybots - that they cannot see this?


5,306 posted on 04/23/2007 2:20:36 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("Message to radical jihadis...come to my hood, it's understood ------ it's open season" Stuck Mojo)
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To: conservative in nyc
"I never said that anything was or wasn't off limits."

My apologies. A lot of the FR supporters of Mayor Giuliani get real worked up when some of his quotes or actions would get brought up, and turned real nasty. Usually that's when the personal attacks would begin. I definitely wasn't trying to instigate with my question.

5,307 posted on 04/23/2007 2:20:38 PM PDT by RabidBartender
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To: rbmillerjr
>> A cathartic memoir?

No catharsis yet. The words "first" and "now" were lies too.

5,308 posted on 04/23/2007 2:20:49 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: you come here expecting a turkey shoot, and then you find out that you are the turkey.)
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To: Cold Heat

It looks to me like you misread the post.


5,309 posted on 04/23/2007 2:20:57 PM PDT by Kevmo (Duncan Hunter just needs one Rudy G Campaign Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM)
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To: stockstrader
While I appreciated MiaT’s anti-Clinton devotion, I always cringed at her threads and posts. It’s what I thought an acid trip would look like and the product of a seriously disturbed individual.
5,310 posted on 04/23/2007 2:22:01 PM PDT by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: Iwo Jima

I totally agree with that.


5,311 posted on 04/23/2007 2:23:19 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness)
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To: rbmillerjr

They never addressed anything posted or linked. They just repeated the canard that we had better get used to choosing between Rudy and Hillary. No logic or reason worked. We got one sentence answers and condescension.


5,312 posted on 04/23/2007 2:24:00 PM PDT by Luke21 (No Rudy. No way.)
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To: Luke21
The Libs have been ecstatic over the immigration battle. Bush tried to defuse the political bomb but a segment of the party joined forces with people I don't even like to mention and defeated every attempt.

So the bomb went off, and we got fragged.

In the end, who won?

Yup......The liberals, and they will win this sort of issue each and every time because they can.

The immigration issue is now virtually lost, and I doubt we will have much input into what is finally done. They are waiting until the 2008 elections to do it, unless we cave. In any case, they will sow up the Hispanic vote for some decades to come, and they are going to become the majority ethnicity.

So that's primarily why we should have backed Bush's plan. But now it's too late.

I know a lot of people see this as a major issue politically, but frankly, it was too divisive and should have been handled with much care, and not as a club. Our future as a Republican Party with Hispanics as a majority, will be much different now. I guess we will see just how much.

5,313 posted on 04/23/2007 2:24:43 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Mitt....2008)
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To: Iwo Jima

I agree completely. Her hatred of Clinton blinded her from any logic. That’s why her willingness to support the candidate who was the biggest Clinton defender and most vocal Clinton apologist was bizarre made no sense at all (especially BEFORE the nomination).


5,314 posted on 04/23/2007 2:25:12 PM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative candidate who will UNITE the Party, not a liberal who will DIVIDE it!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

You appear to have absolutely no idea what it means to make a hypothetical argument.

It is clear to me what Mia was saying. And it is consistent with everything I know about Mia, everything she has ever said to me, everything we have often debated about.

You never debated Mia when she could respond. Your attempt to pick apart her comments to fit your absurd little points and theories and to do so now, when she is no longer here to respond, looks, well, petty, ridiculous and yes, cowardly.

For your information, kevkrom confirmed what went down with those deleted posts.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1821435/posts?page=5155#5155

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1821435/posts?page=5107#5107


5,315 posted on 04/23/2007 2:25:13 PM PDT by jla
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To: Politicalmom
Jesus never continued to associate with people who refused to repent and change their behavior.

Really? And yet he allowed Judas to remain with the apostles even though he knew that Judas would eventually betray him.

Not that Jesus wouldn't draw a line at some point, and it is up to our interpretation of scriptural guidance and judgment as to where we also should draw that line. He did throw the moneychangers out of the Temple, and Paul shook the dust from his shoes at times. But he also told the story of the Prodigal Son, where the father never gave up hope during the son's time of sin. Jesus also said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and dined with the tax collector, and allowed the harlot to wash his feet, suggesting that he was not completely rebellious and withdrawn from flawed human institutions and slow to wall off or reject anyone still in their imperfections. "Go and sin no more" was the advice and goal, but he did have Peter as the rock, despite his thrice betrayal on just a single day. Ananias and Sapphira illustrated that we never know when patience will run out or an example will be made of our sins, so clearly continuing in sin is risking grave peril, including eternal damnation. But yet Paul continued to advise and work with rather than reject various churches involved in some pretty bad problems. In fact Paul used a pagan holy site to make a point in one of his sermons, the alter to an unknown god. So perhaps God can use the imperfect to advance his cause, and doing so doesn't have to mean condoning the imperfections/sinful side? Rahab was a harlot, why was her story of how she aided the Israelites included in the bible?

5,316 posted on 04/23/2007 2:26:35 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat (Rudy-Fred 08.)
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To: Cold Heat

I agree with you. But we have had them stall off the open borders monster this far, because of our opposition to it.
Of all people the Democrats in conservative areas have decided they want to stay in Congress.

We still have to fight the immigration battle as part of a comprehensive effort. I never write anything off until we lose.


5,317 posted on 04/23/2007 2:27:36 PM PDT by Luke21 (No Rudy. No way.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Dang, EV, I been watching what’s going on for hours now, what did ya do, throw Holy Water on them or something? lol


5,318 posted on 04/23/2007 2:27:50 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: Jim Robinson
Then what's your beef? ...

I suppose I feel its because you've been chumped. You've been able to see the obvious devil, Rudybots, social moderates, et-al, but you've failed to see the phony Archie Bunkers. The uber-conservatives, direct for DU or move-on or just punk assed liberals wanting to hurt our cause. Because of these intolerant and phony ranters we are ridiculed, neutralized and almost impotent.

You think I'm being disruptive, I'll back off. Just be advised, FR is fast becoming counterproductive to the conservative cause.

5,319 posted on 04/23/2007 2:28:12 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: Peach

Hey Peachy, I’m sorry I wasn’t here when you were suspended, but I want you to know that I’m LOL and ROTHLMAO.


5,320 posted on 04/23/2007 2:28:28 PM PDT by metalurgist ("For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?" No to Rudy)
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To: trussell; upsdriver; OMalley; Jim Robinson; pissant; dirtboy; fatima; processing please hold; ...
Jim...please see post 201. I’m not the only one who believes a mistake was made in banning Fierce Allegiance. Please reinstate his account...he is NOT a stalker!!!

201 didn't really say anything?

But I want to join my support to get Fierce Allegiance back. He was so much fun, and never meant anyone any harm. He kept things fun and lively on FR.

I believe he was falsely accused because of his opposition to Rudy.
5,321 posted on 04/23/2007 2:30:00 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: metalurgist

Peach and her rants are long gone. She can lead the singing and the Rudy services over at her new place. They can pass the plate to me if she promises to stay there.


5,322 posted on 04/23/2007 2:30:31 PM PDT by Luke21 (No Rudy. No way.)
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To: processing please hold

LOL! yes Dr. OMalley’s 3 step program! Log. Off. Now. !!
Of course it would help if I could follow my own program;)


5,323 posted on 04/23/2007 2:31:27 PM PDT by OMalley (Just say NO to Rudy "Tootsie" Giuliani-GO Duncan Hunter 08:))
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To: RabidBartender
A lot of the FR supporters of Mayor Giuliani get real worked up when some of his quotes or actions would get brought up, and turned real nasty.

I am not supporting Giuliani - or any of the Republican candidates currently in the race right now. As I have posted on this thread, it's far too early for me to decide, especially since I don't even know who will get on the ballot in New York given our restrictive ballot access laws (unless they are waived by the federal courts, like in 2000).

Like the majority of FReepers, I've been largely avoiding the [insert name of Republican presidential candidate here] bash-a-palooza threads. I find them repulsive due to the incessant personal attacks from all sides. I think I've posted on a grand total of three of them, including this one. And I don't plan on posting on many others in the future.
5,324 posted on 04/23/2007 2:31:36 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: Luke21
I know hatred when I hear it, and the Clintons’ controversy isn’t with me or you, but with a far higher authority.

I think Mia T's point is that it is both. We are a much easier target.
5,325 posted on 04/23/2007 2:33:22 PM PDT by jla
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To: processing please hold

:-)


5,326 posted on 04/23/2007 2:33:23 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness)
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To: jla

The sooner people realize that the WOT will turn into a war on the RR when liberals take over, the better.

The libs equate people who believe in a Covenant with our Creator to inhumane people who set car bombs to kill innocent people. They propogate the idea that the RR will kill too. They deny that the RR are defenders of their faith, not aggressors of it.

Libs deny that their liberalism is a “fundamentalism” also. A fundamentalism that attacks God given freedom for all people who give Him the glory. They reject Biblical history, how when God’s people have turned away from Him, they were led into bondage and not freed until they cried out to Him in repentance. Many times God sent evil Kings and invasions to bring His people back to Him. Times have not change in thousands of years my FRiends.

They also deny that it was right wing wackos who made this dying nation great in a time gone by.


5,327 posted on 04/23/2007 2:34:11 PM PDT by del4hope (If your candidate doesn't respect an unborn life, they don't respect your life either.)
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To: EternalVigilance; 68 grunt

I am asking this in an extremely reasonable and polite tone.

Could you two please take this to FReepmail or something?

It is really depressing and annoying, especially after so many posts.


5,328 posted on 04/23/2007 2:34:17 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: All
I couldn't decide whether this thread needed a shrubbery or more cowbell, but since I don't have a picture of a cowbell here's some nice bee balm:


5,329 posted on 04/23/2007 2:35:11 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Some people are like slinkys, the idea of them tumbling down a flight of stairs makes you smile.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
I wish it weren't so, but our friend that runs this show is not approachable any more. The mods would all quit.

Too bad. My wife and I are very fond of him, his wife and their son we got to meet twice.

5,330 posted on 04/23/2007 2:35:25 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Don't ask.)
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To: Delphinium; trussell; Jim Robinson

Are the posts relating to Fierce Allegiance’s banning still up? Anybody have a link?

I sincerely doubt Fierce Allegiance did anything to deserve a banning. I’ve heard from several FReepers that FA was set up in the usual fashion.

JR, would you please look into it?


5,331 posted on 04/23/2007 2:35:44 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. Ž)
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To: Delphinium

bump


5,332 posted on 04/23/2007 2:35:49 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: OMalley

Hello O’Malley

This seems like a good place to hang up my hat on this thread. It’s too overwhelming. I tried to read every one for the first 2000, then started skimming, responding to the posts to me, then re-reading at 3500 or so... We keep losing freepers like Pukin Dog in this ordeal, and the thread grows like a cancer. Sometimes it’s engulfing like a novel, sometimes it’s no fun. I hope you have a good time on it. Take care.

O’Malley O’Malley
Sounds so nice, you say it twice.


5,333 posted on 04/23/2007 2:36:04 PM PDT by Kevmo (Duncan Hunter just needs one Rudy G Campaign Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM)
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To: Bigh4u2

Thank you. But I am preaching to the choir. You ought to see the look on faces when I explain that to fence straddlers.


5,334 posted on 04/23/2007 2:38:01 PM PDT by del4hope (If your candidate doesn't respect an unborn life, they don't respect your life either.)
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To: OMalley
Dr. O'Malley....

Physician heal thyself. ;-)

5,335 posted on 04/23/2007 2:38:10 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: OMalley

That you, Jane?


5,336 posted on 04/23/2007 2:38:20 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Don't ask.)
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To: EternalVigilance

:-)


5,337 posted on 04/23/2007 2:38:45 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: del4hope

“You ought to see the look on faces when I explain that to fence straddlers.”

I can only imagine!

:0)


5,338 posted on 04/23/2007 2:40:03 PM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: BykrBayb; LS; Peach; Howlin
I have no real dog in this issue yet - I am eagerly watching the developments with Fred Thompson. As it is now, I neither endorse nor reject any candidate. I am deeply troubled about the possibility of a Hillary/Obama ticket. The most important issue to me is, as another FReeper noted - life. Yours, mine, the born and unborn. And the jihadists want to end it all. So, I will measure my ultimate choices accordingly. But your comment piqued my ears a bit - They have no concept of core values. They honestly believe that party loyalty is a core value. It’s sad.

Ronald Reagan had an 11th Commandment and I believe it is germaine to the thread. He introduced it on April 1, 1967 (I looked it up) during a speech in Long Beach, California. Here is an excerpt:

Our 11th Commandment is perhaps more profound than we realize. “Thou shall not speak ill of any Republican.” To do so means we are inhibited in the support we can give that Republican if he should become the nominee of our party.

The full speech can be found here.

Also, here is an interesting article written by Michael Reagan last February in Front Page Magazine.

Peach was and is my FRiend and I'm sad to see her banned. And I respect that this forum is controlled by others as it should be. But this might help with some context as to what our choice MIGHT be on election night.

5,339 posted on 04/23/2007 2:40:26 PM PDT by Lando Lincoln
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To: Politicalmom

No. I don’t do private FReepmail with trolls. Just skip over the posts if you don’t like them. It’s easy.

Truly, I’m sorry that this stuff has to be here, but when I’m personally attacked, I don’t believe in passively letting them go unchallenged.


5,340 posted on 04/23/2007 2:40:47 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness)
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To: stockstrader
Her hatred of Clinton blinded her from any logic.

No kidding. Several times, I wanted to post "Captain Ahab... Is that you?" to her. But instead, I treated her as an "overly passionate and committed" person, rather than one who was obsessed. I'm still not sure which is the correct evaluation.

5,341 posted on 04/23/2007 2:41:00 PM PDT by Charles Martel (Liberals are the crab grass in the lawn of life.)
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To: jla

So? Clinton pontificates.

Giuliani marches with NAMBLA. Nobody seems to care that that gave an appearance of approval and respectablity to child molestors.

They both want to destroy traditional morals.


5,342 posted on 04/23/2007 2:41:21 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: Politicalmom
My accusation nor opinion has changed, but JR has said he believes me to be disruptive so I'm done with it, for this ugly thread, anyway. You people just don't be such obvious suckers, please. Think beyond facades. Think how irrational rants, insults, taunts and all the other caricaturish stuff make us look.
5,343 posted on 04/23/2007 2:42:08 PM PDT by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: Kevmo

“We keep losing freepers like Pukin Dog in this ordeal”

He left on his own accord. He came in and stated he was shocked so many had been banned and then proceeded to say he was gone if it were true.

I guess his Party allegiances are stronger than his conservative allegiances because he didn’t even attempt to track the posts of Peach, in particular. If he would have he would have seen that she deserved her banishment, really long before she got it.


5,344 posted on 04/23/2007 2:42:52 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("Message to radical jihadis...come to my hood, it's understood ------ it's open season" Stuck Mojo)
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To: Kevmo

LOL! You might lose that hat in a room this big!

This thread has taken alot of freepers!! but im just playing so i should be safe!

thanks for the well wishes:)


5,345 posted on 04/23/2007 2:43:00 PM PDT by OMalley (Just say NO to Rudy "Tootsie" Giuliani-GO Duncan Hunter 08:))
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To: del4hope
"The sooner people realize that the WOT will turn into a war on the RR when liberals take over, the better. The libs equate people who believe in a Covenant with our Creator to inhumane people who set car bombs to kill innocent people. They propogate the idea that the RR will kill too. They deny that the RR are defenders of their faith, not aggressors of it. Libs deny that their liberalism is a “fundamentalism” also."



This cannot be said often enough, del4hope. Excellent! Everyone MUST listen to Bill Clinton in that old Mia T thread warning the RR. I'll try to find it.
5,346 posted on 04/23/2007 2:44:02 PM PDT by jla
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To: 68 grunt
Are you talking about EV? If so, you’re wrong. Or do you have someone else you’re accusing?

And, sorry, but I can’t think of anything more counterproductive or outright destructive to the conservative cause than having the GOP nominate a NARAL supporting abortionist loving, radical feminist loving gay agenda supporting, gun grabbing, illegal alien welfare sanctioning NY liberal. And I’ll be doubling and redoubling my efforts to see him knocked out of the race. Hope that’s not too offensive to our more stalwart GOP supporting FReepers, but it’s something I must do.

5,347 posted on 04/23/2007 2:44:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Cyber Liberty

Jane?


5,348 posted on 04/23/2007 2:44:26 PM PDT by OMalley (Just say NO to Rudy "Tootsie" Giuliani-GO Duncan Hunter 08:))
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To: Lando Lincoln

I see nothing there to suggest that liberalism should be promoted. I stand by my assessment. There are those whose loyalty is to the party, without regard for values.


5,349 posted on 04/23/2007 2:46:10 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Be careful what you ask for, and even more careful what you demand. Ž)
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To: processing please hold

logging. Off. now....maybe....If I can....;)


5,350 posted on 04/23/2007 2:46:58 PM PDT by OMalley (Just say NO to Rudy "Tootsie" Giuliani-GO Duncan Hunter 08:))
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