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Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?
vanity | April 21, 2007 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.

One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.

All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.

FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

Do you really expect me to do that?


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: abortion; aliens; banglist; bernardkerik; bugzapper; bugzapperinventor; bugzapperthread; byebyerinos; bzzzt; classicthread; damties; dragqueens4rudy; elections; fr; freedom; freepercide; freepersturnedtroll; freepicide; giuliani; globalwarming; gojimgo; greatzot; gungrabber; herekitty; hizzoner; homosexualagenda; howlermonkeys; howlermonkeyzot; howlinzot; hsw; immaturity; jrrocks; julieannie; julieanniebotsmad; lemmings; liberty; lookatmenow; massresignation; newt; no; nonopus; nopiapspleez; onepercentersgone; onepercentersrule; opus; opuscentral; peachcompost; piapers; pridegoethb4; prolife; propertyrights; propiaps; rabidfringeshame; realmenofgenius; rino; rinorudy; rinos; rossperot; rudy; rudyhasalisp; rudyinadress; rudymcromney; rudytherino; ruhroh; runfredrun; savagegotitrite; selfimmolation; socialism; socialist; springcleaning; springhousecleaning; stoprudy; stoprudy2008; suicidebymod; supo; sweepuptime; takingoutthetrash; thanksjim; themanwhosavednyc; thtoprudy; travesty; undeadthread; vikingkitties; weneedfred; wideawake; wideawakes; zap; zapper; zot; zotbelt
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Your 169 is a great post. Thanks for putting to words what I too have been thinking.


501 posted on 04/21/2007 8:47:14 PM PDT by semaj (Just shoot the bastards! * Void where prohibited.)
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To: Artemis Webb

“Hey Jim while you’re off banning people can you let A+Bert come back”

Har! USS Liberty, USS Libery.............


502 posted on 04/21/2007 8:47:24 PM PDT by Rb ver. 2.0
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To: Jim Robinson

That’s it in a nutshell:

Pro gay agenda.
Pro abortion
Anti-gun
Pro illegal alien

What does he have, except a few weeks in office as standing up well in the public eye as a lame duck mayor dealing well with a major disaster?

It doesn’t matter if he can rise to the occasion in a crisis if he screws up and rolls back everything many of us have fought for.

We don’t need a daddy who will comfort us when we are crying. We need a statesman who understands the stakes and will stand up for and fight for and work hard for the things our nation needs.


503 posted on 04/21/2007 8:47:34 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: skeeter

Making conservatives feel welcome? Which conservatives are those? Certainly not fiscal conservatives. Or law and order conservatives. Ooh, ooh - wait. You mean making social conservatives feel at home.

You mean those social issues that were barely mentioned last year by freepers who were so ticked off at the big spending by Congressional Republicans. Or those social issues that weren’t mentioned at all in Newt’s Contract with Americ.


504 posted on 04/21/2007 8:47:35 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Peach
Oh, please. ...Reagan signed an amnesty bill ... Ditto ... that Reagan used to be a Democrat and signed what at the time was the most liberal abortion legislation in the nation.

To begin with, lemme state that, as things stand, I'll be reasonably content with any of the potential nominees except for the dimwit nutjob McCain. And, I certainly think Rudy supporters should be given the opportunity to argue their case on FR. I even think McCain supporters, no matter how ignorant they must be, should have full opportunity to argue whatever ridiculous nonsense they might come up with.

But that being said, I take issue with both points you raise about Reagan.

First, I remember the mid-80s quite well, and there's no question in my mind at least that the perception of illegal migrants and their role in America was very different than it is today. More importantly, Reagan did not have the luxury of hindsight that we have: He could not know that the enforcement mechanisms in the bill he signed would be ignored by future administrations (i.e., Clinton and, even more so, GWB). Finally, Reagan had to compromise across the aisle in order to get anything done. It seemed rather clear to me that the bill he signed into law was diluted from what Reagan would've enacted if he were a dictator.

It's misleading to judge Reagan policies by the same yardstick that one might judge GWB, for instance, when the latter had a GOP House and Senate to work with for most of his term.

As for abortion, this is what Reagan himself wrote on abortion in 1983: Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation.

The fact of the matter is that Reagan had a mea culpa, and the Reagan of the 1950s was hardly the same Reagan that won the presidency in 1980. Strom Thurmond and Phil Gramm had once been Democrats as well, but no one confused them for being liberals. By contrast, Rudy has given no indication that his position has shifted on the topic of abortion. Aside from some trivial semantics, his position is unreservedly the same as it's always been.

And, as for me, I'm reserving judgement on Rudy until I have a clear sense of his policy on illegals.

505 posted on 04/21/2007 8:47:35 PM PDT by AntiGuv ("..I do things for political expediency.." - Sen. John McCain on FOX News)
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To: Peach

“Only until management decides they want to please the whiners.”

LOL.


506 posted on 04/21/2007 8:47:42 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: Luke21

By California standards compared to national standards, yes.


507 posted on 04/21/2007 8:47:53 PM PDT by Arizona Carolyn
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To: Jim Robinson
We've got some real challenges facing us.

Yep. IMO America has no interest in having a choice between two major-party, socialist candidates for President, and I doubt we'll be faced with it.
508 posted on 04/21/2007 8:47:56 PM PDT by caveat emptor
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To: Peach
No, I’m too fascinated watching the meltdown.

Peach, you're not going to get anywhere explaining the fine conservative points on what Rudy did for NYC. I appreciate what he did, some others here do appreciate it as well, but most won't.

Besides, it not like Rudy isn't pro abortion "rights" and anti gun rights. He's on the wrong side of both those issues and that's the problem. I also believe that if he's the nominee, there will be a real danger of third party candidate splitting the conservative vote.

I politely urge you to support Fred Thompson if he enters the race.

Regards.

509 posted on 04/21/2007 8:48:18 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: nctexan; Peach
Just not sure if your intention is to kick out any differing views here on FR. Also thought the timing odd, right after hitting the campaign mark.

Oh,please,that is a really ignorant attempt to slur Jim. You people just get lower and lower.

510 posted on 04/21/2007 8:49:02 PM PDT by Elyse (I refuse to feed the crocodile.)
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To: buccaneer81

Ron Paul is looking better and better .


511 posted on 04/21/2007 8:49:03 PM PDT by sushiman
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To: Fishrrman
would vote for a trained chimpanzee if it meant keeping Hillary out of the White House.

At least someone who gets it around here.

I will be doing the same.

Hey, i've said some bad things about Rudy, but even I haven't called him a trained chimpanzee.

512 posted on 04/21/2007 8:49:17 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Peach

You’re not making sense.


513 posted on 04/21/2007 8:49:34 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Pan_Yan

The list of electable choices we get in a given election year reflects the profile of the electorate. The political party leaders aren’t stupid. They identify what positions the electorate requires in a candidate, and then provide candidates who either actually do, or can plausibly claim to, hold those positions. The important work of shifting the views of the electorate doesn’t occur at the ballot box. You shift the views of the electorate first, and subsequently you get a choice of candidates that reflect the shift.

You also have to deal with the reality that you’re never going to persuade a majority to agree with you on all the issues you feel are important. That’s been the big flaw in the overall strategy of the various forces desiring to roll back socialism. Quite frankly, the single-minded anti-abortion crusade (with related issues like embryonic stem cell research) is likely to ensure that the march of socialism continues. A large percentage of anti-abortion activists seem perfectly happy to throw their votes away on unelectable fringe party candidates, or just not vote at all, in order to avoid voting for any candidate who doesn’t share their belief that the government has to end legal abortion. This issue drives huge numbers of fiscal conservative and libertarian voters into the arms of the Democratic Party (which might as well be called the Socialist Party) even though they’re not really comfortable with the degree of socialism there. It also forces the Republican Party to accept a lot more socialism than many of its leaders really want, because after losing all the abortion-is-the-only-issue voters by being only moderately anti-abortion, and losing the many fiscal conservative and libertarian voters who can’t stomach the idea of government controlling people’s reproductive activities even “moderately”, they can’t afford to also lose large blocks of voters who fear cuts in Medicare, Social Security, student loan subsidies, etc. (even though many of those voters philosophically don’t like socialism, they’ve already paid a bundle into the system, and therefore can’t afford not to get their share back out again — an imminent need to keep getting your needed medical treatment and keep having a roof over your head, quickly blots out any idealistic notions of basing one’s votes on “philosophy”).

The political reality is that an anti-abortion vote is a pro-socialism vote, notwithstanding that most anti-abortion voters also claim to be anti-socialism. There is nowhere near a majority of our electorate who are both committed to paying their own bills and keeping charitable activity a strcitly private concern (i.e. truly against socialism), and committed to having the government make women have babies they don’t want and in most cases can’t afford to raise without taxpayer assistance. And don’t bother with me with the tired line about “if they don’t want to have a baby, they should keep their legs together” — they DON’T want babies, and they DON’T keep their legs together, and the Constitution does NOT permit the government to have taxpayer-salaried agents run around forcibly keeping women’s legs together.

The most effective way to reduce both the number of abortions and the number of babies born to parents who send their bills to the taxpayers, is to roll back socialism one step at a time, and let ther resulting cultural shift towards self-sufficiency and personal responsibility take care of the rest. For both social and technological reasons, abortion is never going to go away. However, the current phenomenon of large numbers of women using abortion in lieu of contraception over and over and over again, and women just not bothering to get their abortions until the second trimester (or beyond!) CAN be made to go away. These women are products of a society where self-sufficiency and personal responsibility are largely foreign concepts. But socialism has to go away first, and that’s not going to happen until the anti-socialism forces can band together and agree that rolling back socialism needs to be the number one political priority. We’re currently allowing ourselves to be divided and conquered by the socialists, despite the fact that our numbers don’t even constitute a majority BEFORE we’re divided.


514 posted on 04/21/2007 8:49:40 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: NRA2BFree; Jim Robinson

“I will NEVER vote for Rudy, or any other liberal/RINO!”

Read my lips.........

No new RINOS!!!!


515 posted on 04/21/2007 8:49:43 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: skeeter

Hey, I’m one of the oldtimers here but I’m one of the “unappeasables.” I wear that title with pride.


516 posted on 04/21/2007 8:50:23 PM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: Blackirish

“For once a Repub didn’t apologize”
There is one of the big problems of the Republican party as it stands now. Craven caving in to political correctness, while the dims get a free pass. “Compassionate conservatism”
Did not every conservative wince when they heard that one/


517 posted on 04/21/2007 8:50:25 PM PDT by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: CharlesWayneCT
"Hillary is not the problem, she is the symptom."

Well said.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

518 posted on 04/21/2007 8:50:26 PM PDT by wku man (Claire Wolfe, is it time yet?)
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To: Peach; dirtboy
FReeper dirtboy has caught you trashing and bashing Reagan more times then I'd like think is possible on this conservative forum. I'm not making that up either. You know it too.

>>>>>Feel free to check in on my Rudy posts. I’m delighted by his front runner status nationwide..

Rudy is not popular on Free Republic, nor is he popular with conservatives in general, and never will be. If Rudy was a conservative and not a liberal, he'd be pulling in more then 6.5% of ALL FReepers, or 168 members of FR, in the current FR poll.

>>>>And like I said before, it was NOT a few trouble makers largely supporting Alan Keyes and Pat Buchanan in 2000.

I never said a few. A few is three or less. In 2000 Keyes and Buchanan were pulling together from the troublemaking rightwing, about the same amount that Rudy is pulling from the GOP`s troublemaking leftwing today. The thing you both have in common, you're both a BUNCHA BIG MOUTHS.

519 posted on 04/21/2007 8:50:39 PM PDT by Reagan Man (FUHGETTABOUTIT Rudy....... Conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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To: infidel29
Yeah, we need more of those Stevens’ and Souters’ on the Supreme Court. More Burgers and Stewarts and Earl Warrens, and Brennans, and Harry Blackmuns, all of them nominated to the SCOTUS by Republican presidents from the Rockefeller wing.

Giuiliani is more liberal than any of the presidents who gave us those left wing wonders. He may try to conjure up the ghost of Karl Marx to nominate if elected.

520 posted on 04/21/2007 8:50:42 PM PDT by Luke21 (No Rudy. No way.)
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To: skeeter

Amen.


521 posted on 04/21/2007 8:50:53 PM PDT by SeaBiscuit (God Bless America and FRiends. ...Hunter '08.)
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To: sushiman
Ron Paul is looking better and better

If you want to get stoned behind the walls of the new 'Fortress America', I suppose so.
522 posted on 04/21/2007 8:51:19 PM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: Luke21

I’d trust Rudy with a ferret, except he still lives in New York and he wouldn’t be able to keep it because he banned them.

Damn libertarian. /sarc


523 posted on 04/21/2007 8:51:21 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Jet Jaguar

No


524 posted on 04/21/2007 8:51:40 PM PDT by rockrr (Never argue with a man who buys ammo in bulk...)
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To: potlatch
[But I would vote for a trained chimpanzee if it meant keeping Hillary out of the White House.] Me too.

I would vote for a trained chimpanzee if it meant keeping Rudy out of the White House.

525 posted on 04/21/2007 8:51:43 PM PDT by free_life
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To: FreeReign

I’ve stated repeatedly that I’m rooting for my candidate, Rudy, but will vote for whomever wins the primary in the general. Unlike other freepers who have stated repeatedly they won’t vote for Rudy no matter what.

Now I don’t know about you, but in real life, I don’t know a single Republican who won’t vote for the candidate no matter who it is, including if that person is Rudy. I go to our monthly GOP meetings and a lot of people, staunch conservatives including social conservatives, are high on Rudy.

And given his national standing in the polls, a lot of conservatives of all stripes feel the way I do. We’re not all treasonous liberals, no matter how many times management tries to frame our support as liberal or treasous.


526 posted on 04/21/2007 8:51:49 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

“That’s it in a nutshell:

Pro gay agenda.
Pro abortion
Anti-gun
Pro illegal alien

What does he have, except a few weeks in office as standing up well in the public eye as a lame duck mayor dealing well with a major disaster?

It doesn’t matter if he can rise to the occasion in a crisis if he screws up and rolls back everything many of us have fought for.

We don’t need a daddy who will comfort us when we are crying. We need a statesman who understands the stakes and will stand up for and fight for and work hard for the things our nation needs.”

Very well stated K A C!


527 posted on 04/21/2007 8:51:53 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: FreeReign
"You started the ad hominum attack.".

If you feel 'attacked' then you better get back on your meds. You ain't sounding too stable lately.

528 posted on 04/21/2007 8:52:16 PM PDT by nctexan
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To: Quix

Why do so many people think Rudy is a trained chimpanzee?

Is it just because you all read the post last week that said chimpanzees are more evolved than humans?


529 posted on 04/21/2007 8:52:21 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Elyse

Why don’t you let management answer that question? Gosh, now a person bumps a post and it’s a slur. Get a grip.


530 posted on 04/21/2007 8:52:44 PM PDT by Peach
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To: mkjessup

she’s his mom isn’t she?


531 posted on 04/21/2007 8:52:44 PM PDT by MrEdd (Dogs think they're human, Cats think they're Gods.)
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To: rottndog

The membership of the Republican Party is currently so thoroughly divided, that there is no such thing as a candidate who won’t alienate and drive away one or the other significant portion of its base.


532 posted on 04/21/2007 8:53:12 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: rockrr

I tried.

Have at it then.


533 posted on 04/21/2007 8:53:34 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Just say no to Brady Bunch Republicans.)
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To: Jim Robinson

HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!`BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMEN!!!!!!!!! Thank you Jim Robinson!! I will NEVER bow down to social liberalistic views. Period! What a disgrace it would be to vote a “ Republcian in name only” into office. I would rather stand for my principles and lose than to bend, water down, and cow tow to a luke warm candidate! GOD HELP US!!!
You are a true AMerican with COURAGE and STRENGTH!!!
Polly


534 posted on 04/21/2007 8:53:40 PM PDT by pollywog (Joshua 1:9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid,)
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To: politicalwit
May 98? You are an old timer.
535 posted on 04/21/2007 8:53:41 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: MrEdd
she's his mom isn't she?

The resemblance is startling.
536 posted on 04/21/2007 8:53:58 PM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: Peach

You said that Jim was just making conservatives feel at home again. And I said which conservatives are those? Certainly not fiscal conservatives. Or law and order conservatives. Maybe he’s making socons feel at home, but since when are those the only conservatives?

If those were the most important conservatives, why didn’t Newt’s Contract with America mention one single sentence about abortion or guns?

If socons were so concerned with abortion why did they spend most of last year complaining about spending (fiscal conservative issues) instead of abortion? It’s like they’re unappeasable.


537 posted on 04/21/2007 8:54:38 PM PDT by Peach
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To: streetpreacher

I know he’s gone. I was just making a joke about quidnunc’s propensity to excerpt EVERYTHING he posted. Every article, no matter the source, he would excerpt.


538 posted on 04/21/2007 8:55:04 PM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (I finally see the dawn arrivin' I see beyond the road I'm drivin' Far away and left behind)
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To: GOP_Raider
"Decididng who looks better in a slip does not a presidential race make."

Good one, for a young pup! By the way, have your Raiders hired a new head coach yet? I'd be happy to give you Gruden back, if it were up to me. Go Bucs!!!Super Bowl 37...WOOOHOOOO!

539 posted on 04/21/2007 8:55:13 PM PDT by wku man (Claire Wolfe, is it time yet?)
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To: truth_seeker
So I must conclude that for you, national security-going against islamofascism is below 10 percent?

So, let me see if I've got this correct. What you're aying is we should focus solely on fighting the "War on Terror" (tm) and allow important social issues to be ignored, allowing the society to slip further and further into liberal tyranny?

540 posted on 04/21/2007 8:55:35 PM PDT by semaj (Just shoot the bastards! * Void where prohibited.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
Read my lips.........

No new RINOS!!!!

I don't want any OLD ones either. LOL!

541 posted on 04/21/2007 8:55:39 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (DUNCAN HUNTER FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008! HE IS A TRUE CONSERVATIVE!!)
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To: Arizona Carolyn
California voted Republican every presidential election between 1948 and 1992, excepting one, in 1964. It was no liberal bastion when Reagan was governor.

The state threw three liberal supreme court justices off the CSC as recently as the 1980’s. Jerry Brown was an aberration. Reagan, George Deukmajian, and Pete Wilson were the norm. California was born as a liberal nutland in 1992, when they voted for Clinton.

542 posted on 04/21/2007 8:55:58 PM PDT by Luke21 (No Rudy. No way.)
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To: Peach
>>>>>Spoken by the man who denounces every Republican we have. Sure, you have credibility. /s

LOL Dumb falsehoods will get you nowhere. I've not attacked one single GOP candidate ---- other then the liberal, Rudy Giuliani.

543 posted on 04/21/2007 8:56:05 PM PDT by Reagan Man (FUHGETTABOUTIT Rudy....... Conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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To: Choose Ye This Day

Go Mitt!!!!

People don’t trust Mitt Romney to be what he now says he is.

If he wins, I suspect people here will pray that Romney is what he said he is, and not something else. They will hope Mitt lives up to the principles he has expressed as his current philosophy.

If Rudy wins, we will all pray that he will act in opposition to his principles and history. I hate having to pray that people will not be true to themselves.

Worse, I might have to actually picket a republican in the white house that I just voted for. There is something very bizarre about asking me to vote for a person I will immediately oppose on every turn.


544 posted on 04/21/2007 8:56:13 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: skeeter

Gotcha beat by a month!!!


545 posted on 04/21/2007 8:56:26 PM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: dynachrome

There is one of the big problems of the Republican party as it stands now. Craven caving in to political correctness, while the dims get a free pass. “Compassionate conservatism”
Did not every conservative wince when they heard that one/”

Not when I heard it...I thought he was appealing to the middle and it was good politics.....I cringed when he implemented it.


546 posted on 04/21/2007 8:56:39 PM PDT by Blackirish
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To: AZRepublican
Will FR embrace Hillary instead, removing any chance of getting another conservative on the court?

there WILL be a third party candidate! Count on it!

547 posted on 04/21/2007 8:56:44 PM PDT by pollywog (Joshua 1:9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid,)
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To: Elyse

“You people just get lower and lower.”

Exactly. Hmmm, and what ideology is it that will stop at nothing to win?


548 posted on 04/21/2007 8:56:47 PM PDT by rbmillerjr ("Message to radical jihadis...come to my hood, it's understood ------ it's open season" Stuck Mojo)
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To: Reagan Man

Then I guess the Republican party isn’t conservative because Rudy is the clear frontrunner nationally among Republicans.

And I’ve already stated my posts about Reagan and that you are so sweetly sensitive about the former president doesn’t surprise anyone around here.

As I mentioned, since you’re a poster who rarely has a good word to say about any republican, I’m not terribly worried about what you have to say about me.


549 posted on 04/21/2007 8:57:06 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Peach

If we have no Washington in our time, I will take someone that can play him on tv. (Thompson)


550 posted on 04/21/2007 8:57:26 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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