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Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?
vanity | April 21, 2007 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.

One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.

All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.

FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

Do you really expect me to do that?


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To: Bigh4u2
I say it’s time to ‘thin the herd’ and start over.

You're a really scary person.

801 posted on 04/21/2007 9:59:05 PM PDT by Spyder (The "Hate Giuliani Syndrome." Like Bush Delusional Syndrome, a cure is yet to be found.)
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To: Delphinium

Maybe because Rudy is a fiscal and law and order conservative and as I’ve posted repeatedly, if we don’t get a handle on spending and keep our nation secure, we won’t be talking abortion. We’ll be dodging truck bombs and Wal Mart.

Thanks for not minding me being here. Since I’m a staunch conservative who supports a Republican some people don’t like, a lot of people do mind that Rudy supporters are here at all.


802 posted on 04/21/2007 9:59:32 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Miss Didi

LOL! Do you believe the crap they post - you know ‘the principled ones’.


803 posted on 04/21/2007 9:59:45 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Central Scrutiniser
Its a free country last I looked

I love freedom. Revel in it. I love thinking about things and coming to my own conclusions and passionately arguing my position. I love the liberty to follow an argument and to work through a line of thought. I love the intellectually bracing nature of political debate. And anyone who tries to intimidate me, anytime, anywhere to curb my expression in the arena of ideas better not do it to my face.

804 posted on 04/21/2007 9:59:58 PM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: truth_seeker
Rudy is an open borders supporter by his own actions, making NYC the first sanctuary city. How does that measure on National Security?

World Terror threat? We have numerous Republicans in the field that would be wonderful and better than Rudy.

They are not mentioned because Rudy’s stances on issues of homosexual marriage, gun rights, abortion (not to mention state-funding of this “constitutional right” showing his closet socialism), government spending, and general authoritarianism are the issues we have with Rudy.

Why would we not focus in on the issues we disagree upon?

805 posted on 04/21/2007 10:00:09 PM PDT by Hawk1976 (It is better to die than to live as a slave.)
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To: Spyder

Exactly right!


806 posted on 04/21/2007 10:00:27 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Jet Jaguar
I am hoping for a Gingrich

I liked Gingrich and was hoping he would get in. And then I saw that joke of a debate between him and Kerry on global warming. Gingrich will make a good policy maker/adviser but he is not president material.

807 posted on 04/21/2007 10:00:46 PM PDT by HarmlessLovableFuzzball ( The Golden Rule : He who has the Gold makes the rules)
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To: Peach

“The city also added approximately 430,000 new jobs during Giuliani’s mayoralty the most dramatic period of job growth in New York’s history. At the same time, Giuliani restored fiscal discipline to the city’s budget, transforming the $2.3 billion annual deficit he inherited in 1993 into the $1 billion surplus he hands over to incoming mayor Michael Bloomberg.”

Do you know the difference between a “surplus” and an “operating deficit”?

It’s only been refuted if you confuse the two things.


808 posted on 04/21/2007 10:01:27 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: Blackirish

Rudy isn’t afraid of anyone. Period.

He’ll make decisions I don’t like. Reagan made decisions I didn’t like. So has Bush. So does my husband. We’ll never find anyone we agree with 100% so I’m looking for the person who doesn’t back down in the face of a hostile press and who is strong on national security and hates the Arab extremists.


809 posted on 04/21/2007 10:01:37 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Fishrrman
"- Pennsylvania: Although Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are 'rat cities, the heartland of PA is red. It's a battleground state and Rudy can probably take it easily."

There is NO WAY that Rudy is going to win PA. NONE! Plus you can "X" WV off the states he will take that Bush carried. There is no gun grabbing, abortionist favoring Republican who can carry either of these states. Not going to happen.

810 posted on 04/21/2007 10:02:01 PM PDT by penowa (NO more Bushes; NO more Clintons EVER!)
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To: Hawk1976

“Rudy is an open borders supporter by his own actions, making NYC the first sanctuary city. How does that measure on National Security?
World Terror threat? We have numerous Republicans in the field that would be wonderful and better than Rudy.

They are not mentioned because Rudy’s stances on issues of homosexual marriage, gun rights, abortion (not to mention state-funding of this “constitutional right” showing his closet socialism), government spending, and general authoritarianism are the issues we have with Rudy.”

Rudy is an MSM manufactured fraud!


811 posted on 04/21/2007 10:02:13 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: Peach
Peach, I know exactly how you feel. I posted some of my thoughts above, but we have been trying to right this sinking ship for some time now.

IMO, we are losing the battle. In order to win any further National elections, we need everyone on board, and as you can see, that is not going to happen.

This leaves a presidential candidate with but one choice to make if he wants to win. That would be moving to the center during the primary, which is what is happening now. This runs contrary to the notion that you must capture and solidify the base first. It has always been so, but the base is now split with the socials occupying about a third of it. That third is being slowly written off by all the major candidates, even though they will deny it. They must move ahead and make up the difference with the electorate center, because to embrace that minority one third of the base will sink the candidacy of any running in 2008.

It's a damn shame, but it is a reality, and has happened before. The Republican Party will be forced to change as a result. The Dems are moving left, alienating their base, and we have to move to pick them up in order to win Nationally.

This is causing a great deal of anger and it will continue for some time to come. Nobody likes changes, but the changes will occur regardless.

I suspect that a Ross Perot will appear to scoop them up very soon. If not this cycle, then the next. It's just a matter of time.

We did not cause this to happen, and are not responsible for it. It is the nature of the swinging pendulum, and the leftward drift of America of the rest of the world. It is political realities of present and past, and if this generation does not address them, then the next generation will. If the choice of some is self imposed isolation, then that is their choice. If they kick and scream on the way down, the fall was their choice to make.

I would not let it bother you any more. It is not worth the anger and worry.

812 posted on 04/21/2007 10:02:14 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Mitt....2008)
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To: Spyder

Very.


813 posted on 04/21/2007 10:02:21 PM PDT by Peach
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To: ansel12
He/She/It does this constantly. She knows, full well, that her post is misleading and taken out of context.

That's her M.O.

:O)

P
Run, FRED, run!

814 posted on 04/21/2007 10:02:28 PM PDT by papasmurf (Name me one nation that taxed itself into prosperity. Run, FRED, run!)
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To: woofie
I'm not the one denouncing Jim`s Founders Statement. You are. One more time. The mission statement for Free Republic lists all the major aspects of conservatism and the conservative movement. The issues I've supported for over three decades as a conservative member of the GOP.

You said: "as I said to someone else ...Good luck with all that ...If JR wants to ban me so be it (since 1998)

That simple remark shows disrespect and disdain for Jim`s conservatism message. If you don't hate FR, you sure don't like it here much.

815 posted on 04/21/2007 10:02:42 PM PDT by Reagan Man (FUHGETTABOUTIT Rudy....... Conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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To: Jim Robinson

In a word Jim, No, in two words he33 no!


816 posted on 04/21/2007 10:02:47 PM PDT by gidget7 (2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:)
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To: Peach
And your idiotic lying about my positions are classy?

Where did I ever say that social issues trump national security or that FR was a “social conservative” only site.

FR is a conservative site. We’re not just social conservative or just fiscal conservative. We are conservative period. I don’t think you can be a half conservative and half liberal. You’re either a conservative or your not. If you are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal you’re a liberal. If you are socially conservative but a fiscal liberal then you are a liberal. If you readily embrace and promote liberalism whether socially liberal or fiscally liberal, then you are a liberal. Giulianni is a liberal, socially and fiscally. Most likely, you are a liberal too. Giuliani’s support for taxpayer funded abortion and utter contempt for the constitution makes him a rotten to the core socialist.

FR is pro-God, pro-life, pro-liberty, pro-gun, pro-constitution, pro-private property, pro-individual rights, pro-national defense, pro-limited government, pro-limited spending, pro defense, pro sovereignty, pro-America, etc, etc. We are opposed to abortionism, feminism, socialism, big government, big spending, activist judges, run away government, corruption, authoritarianism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc.

And we are totally opposed to liberals running for office from the Republican party.

You accept, embrace and support the very liberal (actually socialist) Rudy Giulianni, which means you turn your back on conservatism.

Then you have the audacity to lie about my positions and FR’s positions. You claim to be a conservative but support the most liberal candidate that has ever tried to run as a Republican and you spend your time trashing fine outstanding conservative candidates and conservative supporters. That makes you an idiot in my eyes and a liar to boot. And as far as class goes, you and your abortionist socialist superstar have none whatsoever so you don’t have much room to speak.

817 posted on 04/21/2007 10:02:55 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: mariabush

Me too.


818 posted on 04/21/2007 10:03:00 PM PDT by HarmlessLovableFuzzball ( The Golden Rule : He who has the Gold makes the rules)
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To: Peach
I think that you have every right to be here on FR. After all, it is an OPINION forum.

It is the whining, you don’t love me anymore cut and runners that I object to.

819 posted on 04/21/2007 10:03:16 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek (President Fred Thompson will finally give the University of Memphis the respect that it is due!)
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To: blasater1960

Good points. I certainly will cast an anti-Hillary vote at every opportunity. But I don’t think Rudy will win his home state, and nobody has been elected President without winning his home state since Wilson. Plus, with Rudy I see more Ginsburgs, don’t asking becoming TELL, etc...


820 posted on 04/21/2007 10:03:29 PM PDT by Kryptonite (Keep Democrats Out of Power!)
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To: Reagan Man

That is simply pathetic


821 posted on 04/21/2007 10:03:43 PM PDT by woofie
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To: Spyder; Jim Robinson
There are lots of conservatives who don't believe in legislating our religion.
If you think those of us trying to stop abortion are doing so in an effort to "legislate our religion", you are clueless. Once we allow government to define "untermensch" of any kind, we allow government unlimited power. That is a terrible thing. Abortion is simply the redefining of humanity to exclude those of us before we are born. It is an intolerable insult to every former fetus and a wholly dangerous approach to power.
822 posted on 04/21/2007 10:03:47 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: Spyder

Thanks.

If being a ‘conservative’ is scary to you, then maybe you should consider being something else.


823 posted on 04/21/2007 10:03:47 PM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: jedward

Likewise. Jump into the fray and be counted!


824 posted on 04/21/2007 10:03:56 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: flashbunny

Oh my. Well, since you clearly don’t know, we’ll just leave it to the lurkers to see that your little post was clearly debunked for the misinformation you seem all too happy to spread.


825 posted on 04/21/2007 10:03:57 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Jim Robinson; Gumdrop; trustandhope; MarkBsnr; pblax8; oakcon; newbie 10-21-00; Bloc8406; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

826 posted on 04/21/2007 10:04:17 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: veronica
What he said about Rudy was specific and full of praise.

It's too late to start looking for Bush's introduction of Romney or McCain, but I'll simply ask, what would you expect him to say about an invited speaker that he was introducing?

Since you're determined to read some great import into his remarks all I can say is have fun.

827 posted on 04/21/2007 10:04:19 PM PDT by garv (Conservatism in '08 www.draftnewt.org)
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To: Blackirish

You are questioning the fortitude of a man who was the lone dissenting voice in quite a few senate votes. Fred Thompson stood up for his principles and he did it alone.

He is fulfilling his commitments right now, instead of blowing them off and just announcing he is running. He is a highly skilled campaigner. He worked to put himself through college and law school and he and his wife raised three kids at the same time.

He is NOT lazy, and when he is motivated, he is highly motivated. Really efficient people often appear to be lazy, because they have things organized so they can get things done without undue stress. I think that is what Thompson does.


828 posted on 04/21/2007 10:04:42 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a democrat with an energized opposition than a leftist “Republican” with no opposition.)
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To: Cold Heat

You’re right, Cold Heat. It’s most unfortunate, but there’s nothing we can do about it. Dang it!


829 posted on 04/21/2007 10:05:13 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Spyder

After reading this thread, all I see is a circular firing squad and Hillary as president.

Seems folks here want to make that tent smaller and smaller. They have no idea what they are doing.

Its healthy to have debate about candidates, it really is. But to mandate who is to be supported flies completely in the face of liberty.


830 posted on 04/21/2007 10:05:18 PM PDT by Central Scrutiniser (Never Let a Fundie Near a Textbook. Teach Evolution!)
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To: Peach

“Well, since you clearly don’t know”

What am I not supposed to know?

Do YOU know the difference between a surplus and an operating deficit???


831 posted on 04/21/2007 10:05:32 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: Jim Robinson
Do you really expect me to do that?

Hillary Clinton possesses each and every one of Mr. Giuliani's political vices...and much more!

As W.C. Fields once said, "I don't for anyone. I vote against."

I cannot believe you would allow Hillary to benefit by your ballot boycott.

No sir, if Giuliani is the nominee, you'll hold your nose just like the rest of us. Won't you?

832 posted on 04/21/2007 10:06:27 PM PDT by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon))
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To: Eighth Square

Seems as though the Rinos are growing in numbers, deserting the cause. It’s pitiful!

***It’s a new brand of conservatives: Iscaripublicans. They never believed in the cause to begin with. They tried to infiltrate it and steer it in the direction they wanted it to go. When it doesn’t go in that particular direction, we see hostility. It’s a lot like Judas Iscariot, who infiltrated the band of zealous followers of the latest messiah figure for his own purposes. We’ll see the same result, too — more than desertion, it will be betrayal. Yes, this new form of conservatism is very much against the social conservatism that JimRob is very open about on the front page of Free Republic. And these new Iscaripublicans will betray us at the first site of silver. In the end, no one will remember their selfish cause for anything other than as a lesson of what not to do.


833 posted on 04/21/2007 10:06:31 PM PDT by Kevmo (Duncan Hunter just needs one Rudy G Campaign Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM)
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To: Jim Robinson; DaveLoneRanger
"...Do you really expect me to do that?..."

Nope!

"...Whoever we put on the ‘08 ticket, we can’t allow it to be Rudy..."

And there's the fight!

We have to elect a Conservative in the Primaries! ............................ FRegards

834 posted on 04/21/2007 10:06:39 PM PDT by gonzo (In Florida, inmates make cigarettes in jail that I buy, and I can go to jail for smoking one! WTF?)
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To: Peach; flashbunny

835 posted on 04/21/2007 10:07:16 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: Jim Robinson

Where have I lied about your position?

A freeper said you were making conservatives feel welcome again.

I said that maybe you were making social conservatives feel welcome, but those of us who are national security and fiscal conservatives aren’t feeling terribly welcome. We who support Rudy have been quite vocal that we support him for his stance on national security and fiscal issues and yet you’ve calling us treasonous liberals for that support.

Now, I would welcome you showing me exactly where I’ve lied about your position. Ever. Just once instance will do.


836 posted on 04/21/2007 10:07:32 PM PDT by Peach
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To: DCPatriot

Hillary won’t be the nominee.


837 posted on 04/21/2007 10:07:41 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: Peach
and law and order conservative

Rudys kind of law and order is far from conservative. It's more along the socialist line.

I can't recall who you've supported in the past, but what do you expect now that you are pushing a liberal, gun grabbing abortionist on a Conservative site?

Really, what do you expect? Jim clearly states regularly what he wants his site to be. Most of us are conservatives.

You might as well be asking us to deny God. To deny the Creator that gave us life and liberty. To give up our children. To surrender our country to the left. To give up our freedom. To give up our faith and our belief in God's Word.(Jim Rob last night)

What do you expect us to do?
838 posted on 04/21/2007 10:07:45 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: stephenjohnbanker
Rudy is an MSM manufactured fraud!

Only until they can get him nominated, then they'll tear him to shreads and a dim takes the WH. The perfect plan!

839 posted on 04/21/2007 10:08:03 PM PDT by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: DCPatriot

N O


840 posted on 04/21/2007 10:08:22 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: Blackirish
Well he was in charge of a police force larger then most countries army's.

No, Rudy was the elected Mayor. He was not in charge of the police force. That's what the Chief of Police is for.

His response to 9/11 despite what others say was heroic.

His response was nothing more than having Department Directors, Department Managers and Supervisors report to him the ACTION they took. He was merely the messenger. If you know anything about Emergency Management you know that is true.

His speech following 9/11 slapping around the UN was fantastic.

Talk is cheap.

he more then any other pol knows the nature of the enemy...he’s qualified.

I'm sure there are a lot of other responsible politicians and non-politicians that know much more about our enemies than Giuliani.

841 posted on 04/21/2007 10:08:25 PM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: Peach
Hey, if Jim wants to ban all the freepers who think national security trumps social issues, he can have at it and you all enjoy that little echo chamber of yours.
Pretty bold there peachy.
842 posted on 04/21/2007 10:09:09 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: gonzo

BUMP


843 posted on 04/21/2007 10:09:22 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: Delphinium

I’m a conservative. National security and fiscal conservatism trump my concerns about social issues at this time. What do you want me to do? Care more about abortion than permitting jihadists to do to us what they’ve done to large portions of Europe?


844 posted on 04/21/2007 10:09:27 PM PDT by Peach
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To: narses; Spyder

He’s totally clueless. Obviously, it’s the liberals that are legislating (and unconstitutionally adjudicating) away Religion. We conservatives are simply defending our constitutional rights and our national heritage.


845 posted on 04/21/2007 10:09:33 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: jedward

Welcome to FR....


846 posted on 04/21/2007 10:09:59 PM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Well that’s hitting the nail on the head.


847 posted on 04/21/2007 10:10:49 PM PDT by Kryptonite (Keep Democrats Out of Power!)
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To: Peach

Get it through your thick skull. Rudy is a flaming socialist. He’s unfit to run as a Republican.


848 posted on 04/21/2007 10:10:59 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: woofie

What is really pathetic, is your attempt to come off as the victim in all this. LOL I’ve been very civil with you. Fact is, you complain so much about Free Republic you leave the impression that its not worth your time and effort. I post part of JimRob`s “Founders Satatement” —— conservative all the way —— and you turn around and mock Jim`s message. In my opinion, you’re the one who is sick!


849 posted on 04/21/2007 10:11:01 PM PDT by Reagan Man (FUHGETTABOUTIT Rudy....... Conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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To: Jim Robinson; Peach
Where did I ever say that social issues trump national security or that FR was a “social conservative” only site.

FR is a conservative site. We’re not just social conservative or just fiscal conservative. We are conservative period. I don’t think you can be a half conservative and half liberal. You’re either a conservative or your not. If you are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal you’re a liberal. (etc., snip)

Jim, please consider reading this in the morning when you've calmed down a bit. What you say in the first two sentences is totally negated by the part I bolded. You say it's a conservative site, which would seem to be inclusive of all varieties of conservatives, but then write your own narrow definition of what a conservative is.

850 posted on 04/21/2007 10:11:07 PM PDT by Spyder (The "Hate Giuliani Syndrome." Like Bush Delusional Syndrome, a cure is yet to be found.)
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