Skip to comments.Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?
Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.
One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to rule over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.
All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.
FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?
Do you really expect me to do that?
You're a really scary person.
Maybe because Rudy is a fiscal and law and order conservative and as I’ve posted repeatedly, if we don’t get a handle on spending and keep our nation secure, we won’t be talking abortion. We’ll be dodging truck bombs and Wal Mart.
Thanks for not minding me being here. Since I’m a staunch conservative who supports a Republican some people don’t like, a lot of people do mind that Rudy supporters are here at all.
LOL! Do you believe the crap they post - you know ‘the principled ones’.
I love freedom. Revel in it. I love thinking about things and coming to my own conclusions and passionately arguing my position. I love the liberty to follow an argument and to work through a line of thought. I love the intellectually bracing nature of political debate. And anyone who tries to intimidate me, anytime, anywhere to curb my expression in the arena of ideas better not do it to my face.
World Terror threat? We have numerous Republicans in the field that would be wonderful and better than Rudy.
They are not mentioned because Rudy’s stances on issues of homosexual marriage, gun rights, abortion (not to mention state-funding of this “constitutional right” showing his closet socialism), government spending, and general authoritarianism are the issues we have with Rudy.
Why would we not focus in on the issues we disagree upon?
I liked Gingrich and was hoping he would get in. And then I saw that joke of a debate between him and Kerry on global warming. Gingrich will make a good policy maker/adviser but he is not president material.
“The city also added approximately 430,000 new jobs during Giulianis mayoralty the most dramatic period of job growth in New Yorks history. At the same time, Giuliani restored fiscal discipline to the citys budget, transforming the $2.3 billion annual deficit he inherited in 1993 into the $1 billion surplus he hands over to incoming mayor Michael Bloomberg.”
Do you know the difference between a “surplus” and an “operating deficit”?
It’s only been refuted if you confuse the two things.
Rudy isn’t afraid of anyone. Period.
He’ll make decisions I don’t like. Reagan made decisions I didn’t like. So has Bush. So does my husband. We’ll never find anyone we agree with 100% so I’m looking for the person who doesn’t back down in the face of a hostile press and who is strong on national security and hates the Arab extremists.
There is NO WAY that Rudy is going to win PA. NONE! Plus you can "X" WV off the states he will take that Bush carried. There is no gun grabbing, abortionist favoring Republican who can carry either of these states. Not going to happen.
“Rudy is an open borders supporter by his own actions, making NYC the first sanctuary city. How does that measure on National Security?
World Terror threat? We have numerous Republicans in the field that would be wonderful and better than Rudy.
They are not mentioned because Rudys stances on issues of homosexual marriage, gun rights, abortion (not to mention state-funding of this constitutional right showing his closet socialism), government spending, and general authoritarianism are the issues we have with Rudy.”
Rudy is an MSM manufactured fraud!
IMO, we are losing the battle. In order to win any further National elections, we need everyone on board, and as you can see, that is not going to happen.
This leaves a presidential candidate with but one choice to make if he wants to win. That would be moving to the center during the primary, which is what is happening now. This runs contrary to the notion that you must capture and solidify the base first. It has always been so, but the base is now split with the socials occupying about a third of it. That third is being slowly written off by all the major candidates, even though they will deny it. They must move ahead and make up the difference with the electorate center, because to embrace that minority one third of the base will sink the candidacy of any running in 2008.
It's a damn shame, but it is a reality, and has happened before. The Republican Party will be forced to change as a result. The Dems are moving left, alienating their base, and we have to move to pick them up in order to win Nationally.
This is causing a great deal of anger and it will continue for some time to come. Nobody likes changes, but the changes will occur regardless.
I suspect that a Ross Perot will appear to scoop them up very soon. If not this cycle, then the next. It's just a matter of time.
We did not cause this to happen, and are not responsible for it. It is the nature of the swinging pendulum, and the leftward drift of America of the rest of the world. It is political realities of present and past, and if this generation does not address them, then the next generation will. If the choice of some is self imposed isolation, then that is their choice. If they kick and scream on the way down, the fall was their choice to make.
I would not let it bother you any more. It is not worth the anger and worry.
You said: "as I said to someone else ...Good luck with all that ...If JR wants to ban me so be it (since 1998)
That simple remark shows disrespect and disdain for Jim`s conservatism message. If you don't hate FR, you sure don't like it here much.
In a word Jim, No, in two words he33 no!
Where did I ever say that social issues trump national security or that FR was a “social conservative” only site.
FR is a conservative site. We’re not just social conservative or just fiscal conservative. We are conservative period. I don’t think you can be a half conservative and half liberal. You’re either a conservative or your not. If you are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal you’re a liberal. If you are socially conservative but a fiscal liberal then you are a liberal. If you readily embrace and promote liberalism whether socially liberal or fiscally liberal, then you are a liberal. Giulianni is a liberal, socially and fiscally. Most likely, you are a liberal too. Giuliani’s support for taxpayer funded abortion and utter contempt for the constitution makes him a rotten to the core socialist.
FR is pro-God, pro-life, pro-liberty, pro-gun, pro-constitution, pro-private property, pro-individual rights, pro-national defense, pro-limited government, pro-limited spending, pro defense, pro sovereignty, pro-America, etc, etc. We are opposed to abortionism, feminism, socialism, big government, big spending, activist judges, run away government, corruption, authoritarianism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc.
And we are totally opposed to liberals running for office from the Republican party.
You accept, embrace and support the very liberal (actually socialist) Rudy Giulianni, which means you turn your back on conservatism.
Then you have the audacity to lie about my positions and FR’s positions. You claim to be a conservative but support the most liberal candidate that has ever tried to run as a Republican and you spend your time trashing fine outstanding conservative candidates and conservative supporters. That makes you an idiot in my eyes and a liar to boot. And as far as class goes, you and your abortionist socialist superstar have none whatsoever so you don’t have much room to speak.
It is the whining, you don’t love me anymore cut and runners that I object to.
Good points. I certainly will cast an anti-Hillary vote at every opportunity. But I don’t think Rudy will win his home state, and nobody has been elected President without winning his home state since Wilson. Plus, with Rudy I see more Ginsburgs, don’t asking becoming TELL, etc...
That is simply pathetic
There are lots of conservatives who don't believe in legislating our religion.If you think those of us trying to stop abortion are doing so in an effort to "legislate our religion", you are clueless. Once we allow government to define "untermensch" of any kind, we allow government unlimited power. That is a terrible thing. Abortion is simply the redefining of humanity to exclude those of us before we are born. It is an intolerable insult to every former fetus and a wholly dangerous approach to power.
If being a ‘conservative’ is scary to you, then maybe you should consider being something else.
Likewise. Jump into the fray and be counted!
Oh my. Well, since you clearly don’t know, we’ll just leave it to the lurkers to see that your little post was clearly debunked for the misinformation you seem all too happy to spread.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:
Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
It's too late to start looking for Bush's introduction of Romney or McCain, but I'll simply ask, what would you expect him to say about an invited speaker that he was introducing?
Since you're determined to read some great import into his remarks all I can say is have fun.
You are questioning the fortitude of a man who was the lone dissenting voice in quite a few senate votes. Fred Thompson stood up for his principles and he did it alone.
He is fulfilling his commitments right now, instead of blowing them off and just announcing he is running. He is a highly skilled campaigner. He worked to put himself through college and law school and he and his wife raised three kids at the same time.
He is NOT lazy, and when he is motivated, he is highly motivated. Really efficient people often appear to be lazy, because they have things organized so they can get things done without undue stress. I think that is what Thompson does.
You’re right, Cold Heat. It’s most unfortunate, but there’s nothing we can do about it. Dang it!
After reading this thread, all I see is a circular firing squad and Hillary as president.
Seems folks here want to make that tent smaller and smaller. They have no idea what they are doing.
Its healthy to have debate about candidates, it really is. But to mandate who is to be supported flies completely in the face of liberty.
“Well, since you clearly dont know”
What am I not supposed to know?
Do YOU know the difference between a surplus and an operating deficit???
Hillary Clinton possesses each and every one of Mr. Giuliani's political vices...and much more!
As W.C. Fields once said, "I don't for anyone. I vote against."
I cannot believe you would allow Hillary to benefit by your ballot boycott.
No sir, if Giuliani is the nominee, you'll hold your nose just like the rest of us. Won't you?
Seems as though the Rinos are growing in numbers, deserting the cause. Its pitiful!
***It’s a new brand of conservatives: Iscaripublicans. They never believed in the cause to begin with. They tried to infiltrate it and steer it in the direction they wanted it to go. When it doesn’t go in that particular direction, we see hostility. It’s a lot like Judas Iscariot, who infiltrated the band of zealous followers of the latest messiah figure for his own purposes. We’ll see the same result, too — more than desertion, it will be betrayal. Yes, this new form of conservatism is very much against the social conservatism that JimRob is very open about on the front page of Free Republic. And these new Iscaripublicans will betray us at the first site of silver. In the end, no one will remember their selfish cause for anything other than as a lesson of what not to do.
"...Whoever we put on the 08 ticket, we cant allow it to be Rudy..."
And there's the fight!
We have to elect a Conservative in the Primaries! ............................ FRegards
Where have I lied about your position?
A freeper said you were making conservatives feel welcome again.
I said that maybe you were making social conservatives feel welcome, but those of us who are national security and fiscal conservatives aren’t feeling terribly welcome. We who support Rudy have been quite vocal that we support him for his stance on national security and fiscal issues and yet you’ve calling us treasonous liberals for that support.
Now, I would welcome you showing me exactly where I’ve lied about your position. Ever. Just once instance will do.
Hillary won’t be the nominee.
Only until they can get him nominated, then they'll tear him to shreads and a dim takes the WH. The perfect plan!
No, Rudy was the elected Mayor. He was not in charge of the police force. That's what the Chief of Police is for.
His response to 9/11 despite what others say was heroic.
His response was nothing more than having Department Directors, Department Managers and Supervisors report to him the ACTION they took. He was merely the messenger. If you know anything about Emergency Management you know that is true.
His speech following 9/11 slapping around the UN was fantastic.
Talk is cheap.
he more then any other pol knows the nature of the enemy...hes qualified.
I'm sure there are a lot of other responsible politicians and non-politicians that know much more about our enemies than Giuliani.
Hey, if Jim wants to ban all the freepers who think national security trumps social issues, he can have at it and you all enjoy that little echo chamber of yours.Pretty bold there peachy.
I’m a conservative. National security and fiscal conservatism trump my concerns about social issues at this time. What do you want me to do? Care more about abortion than permitting jihadists to do to us what they’ve done to large portions of Europe?
He’s totally clueless. Obviously, it’s the liberals that are legislating (and unconstitutionally adjudicating) away Religion. We conservatives are simply defending our constitutional rights and our national heritage.
Welcome to FR....
Well that’s hitting the nail on the head.
Get it through your thick skull. Rudy is a flaming socialist. He’s unfit to run as a Republican.
What is really pathetic, is your attempt to come off as the victim in all this. LOL I’ve been very civil with you. Fact is, you complain so much about Free Republic you leave the impression that its not worth your time and effort. I post part of JimRob`s “Founders Satatement” —— conservative all the way —— and you turn around and mock Jim`s message. In my opinion, you’re the one who is sick!
FR is a conservative site. Were not just social conservative or just fiscal conservative. We are conservative period. I dont think you can be a half conservative and half liberal. Youre either a conservative or your not. If you are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal youre a liberal. (etc., snip)
Jim, please consider reading this in the morning when you've calmed down a bit. What you say in the first two sentences is totally negated by the part I bolded. You say it's a conservative site, which would seem to be inclusive of all varieties of conservatives, but then write your own narrow definition of what a conservative is.