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Tough road for Republicans w / Emerging Church Christians

Posted on 04/24/2007 10:55:22 AM PDT by ktupper

Over the last few months, I've noticed a definite shift in attitudes among many of the Christian forums and blogs I read and with many of my friends.

The emerging church movement (for lack of a better term) is making strong in roads into what was once a lock vote for the Republicans.

It seems many are looking at areas of social justice, the war, etc...as much as abortion. The discussion is that a lot of these people who always formerly voted Republican will vote for someone like Obama.

The problem is many of them are conservative with respect to issues, not with respect to political philosophy. I've tried amongst my friends to stress that a government solution is usually far more costly and often doesn't work...but to no avail.

Is anyone else experiencing this?


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1 posted on 04/24/2007 10:55:23 AM PDT by ktupper
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To: ktupper

They’ll come around when the Bush tax cuts expire, but then it will be too late.


2 posted on 04/24/2007 10:56:52 AM PDT by AU72
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To: ktupper

What is an “Emerging Church Christian”?

Is that the new code word for Cafeteria Catholic and the like?


3 posted on 04/24/2007 10:57:21 AM PDT by A Balrog of Morgoth (QMC(SW) USN........ CG21 DD988 FFG34 PC6 ARS53)
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth

code word for “new age” which means christianity without christ......


4 posted on 04/24/2007 10:58:59 AM PDT by joe fonebone (Nothin' from Nothin' leaves Nothin')
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth

No, it means they’re paid for by soros


5 posted on 04/24/2007 10:59:25 AM PDT by ckilmer
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth

i see you were a tin can sailor.......


6 posted on 04/24/2007 10:59:46 AM PDT by joe fonebone (Nothin' from Nothin' leaves Nothin')
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To: ktupper

“It seems many are looking at areas of social justice, the war, etc...as much as abortion.”

Sounds more like a social gospel. Those people haven’t been in the Republican Camp for quite some time.


7 posted on 04/24/2007 11:00:29 AM PDT by bereanway
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To: ktupper
If these “Christians” are for “social justice” why in the world would they vote for a candidate who sees no evil or injustice in forcing a baby to be born prematurely and then gutting the baby in the back of his or her head and sucking out his or her brains?

Obama takes the most extreme and evil position imaginable on this issue. How could these endorse such a man using a Christianity as a justification?

8 posted on 04/24/2007 11:04:08 AM PDT by Nevadan
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To: ktupper
There are many, many christians who are conservative on abortion and homosexuality but who are not fiscal conservatives.

Hillary and her ilk have had a plan to pick these out of the GOP for a long time and this election they unfortunately might do it.

9 posted on 04/24/2007 11:04:17 AM PDT by what's up
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To: joe fonebone

Still am, until July 31st.


10 posted on 04/24/2007 11:04:24 AM PDT by A Balrog of Morgoth (QMC(SW) USN........ CG21 DD988 FFG34 PC6 ARS53)
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth

Hard to explain what an Emerging Church Christian is as they’re all over the map.

Here’s a start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_Church


11 posted on 04/24/2007 11:05:22 AM PDT by ktupper
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To: ktupper
So,IOW,the Unitarian/Universalist “Church” is experiencing growth in membership.
12 posted on 04/24/2007 11:06:20 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: ktupper

Many “members” of the emerging “church” (funny terms since many advocate that church is toxic) are post-modernists. By definition, they do not believe in Truth (each person can have his own “truth”). When they have no Truth, it is easily to go whichever way the wind blows.


13 posted on 04/24/2007 11:07:39 AM PDT by keepitreal
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To: what's up
There are many, many christians who are conservative on abortion and homosexuality but who are not fiscal conservatives.
Hillary and her ilk have had a plan to pick these out of the GOP for a long time and this election they unfortunately might do it.


I think you've got it all backwards. Christians who are very firm on the issues of abortion and/or homosexuality are the LAST group of people who Hillary! would target. They are after the soft Christians. The ones who are "socially moderate but fiscally conservative"...
14 posted on 04/24/2007 11:08:09 AM PDT by A Balrog of Morgoth (QMC(SW) USN........ CG21 DD988 FFG34 PC6 ARS53)
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To: ktupper

Emerging Church = Apostate Church


15 posted on 04/24/2007 11:08:50 AM PDT by DarthVader (Conservatives aren't always right , but Liberals are almost always wrong.)
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To: ckilmer

Hey did you see that segment on Soros and how he gets his money out to liberal organizations on the O’Reilly Factor? Looked like how the Mafia use to do it.


16 posted on 04/24/2007 11:10:05 AM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: Nevadan
If these “Christians” are for “social justice” why in the world would they vote for a candidate who sees no evil or injustice in forcing a baby to be born prematurely

Because abortion is decreasing in importance for these people, who are mostly bluer-collar workers (not necessarily laborers but not in higher positions.) They will buy the government-solution propoganda, and when they start to hear the Dems start to quote from the Bible they will buy what they are saying.

17 posted on 04/24/2007 11:10:26 AM PDT by what's up
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To: ktupper
Is anyone else experiencing this?

The EC movement is greatly influenced by secular postmodernism. So yes, I have experienced it since the movement first gained steam. They have no real standard, other than subjective feelings, and tend to be shallow thinking.

18 posted on 04/24/2007 11:10:44 AM PDT by needlenose_neely
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth
They are after the soft Christians

These are the Christians the poster is talking about.

19 posted on 04/24/2007 11:12:56 AM PDT by what's up
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth

i was stuck on the flight deck of carriers......


20 posted on 04/24/2007 11:12:57 AM PDT by joe fonebone (Nothin' from Nothin' leaves Nothin')
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To: Nevadan
How could these endorse such a man using a Christianity as a justification?

They're not real Christians. They select and redefine scripture to fit their fabricated version of god. Brian McLaren is one of the primary proponents of the Emergent Church movement, here is an excerpt that might give you an idea where he's at...

I don’t believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many (not all!) circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish contexts … rather than resolving the paradox via pronouncements on the eternal destiny of people more convinced by or loyal to other religions than ours, we simply move on … To help Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, and everyone else experience life to the full in the way of Jesus (while learning it better myself), I would gladly become one of them (whoever they are), to whatever degree I can, to embrace them, to join them, to enter into their world without judgment but with saving love as mine has been entered by the Lord (A Generous Orthodoxy, 260, 262, 264).

So you see, being a Christian is no longer a requirement to being a christian in the emergent church mindset.

21 posted on 04/24/2007 11:13:13 AM PDT by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth
Emerging Church is a buzzword, but represents a real phenomenon. It’s churches popping up outside the stream of denominations and systematic theology - and outside of many of the usual rules and expectations of same. It does not necessarily mean heretical or liberal - in fact many of these churches are based on Acts 2 and lots of solid scripture. It’s more about attempting to do Christianity without so much of the usual Church baggage.
22 posted on 04/24/2007 11:13:44 AM PDT by LikeLight (tagline expired - do you wish to renew?)
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To: DarthVader

Emerging Church = where liberals go to pretend to be Christians.


23 posted on 04/24/2007 11:14:00 AM PDT by Dreagon
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To: ktupper

Emerging Church Christian: Their life revolves around rock music, special coffees and eating french-fries during a 20 minute sermon.


24 posted on 04/24/2007 11:14:09 AM PDT by Rodm (Seest thou a man diligent in his business? He shall stand before kings)
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth
I know someone against abortion and homosexuality, yet she loves and is blown away by Obama when he speaks.

It's scary.

25 posted on 04/24/2007 11:16:11 AM PDT by what's up
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To: ktupper
Emerging Church Christian

Now there's a nice buzz term for you. Barry O'Bama is not someone that ANY true, practicing Catholic (Traditional Church Christian?) will ever vote for.
26 posted on 04/24/2007 11:16:25 AM PDT by Antoninus (Have you donated to FR yet? What are you waiting for?)
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth

“Soft” Christians are those who keep their faith to themselves for fear of offending anyone by mentioning the name of Jesus. You see, that name might offend some who don’t go to church. Aren’t we thankful that the Disciples didn’t think that way? All but one were killed or crucified for their outspoken faith in the Savior. If Jesus were a phony, why would these men give their lives for Him?
Isn’t it noteworthy that the only name used in profanity is the name of Jesus? That should enlighten those who care to think. Maybe there is something about that name. Maybe He actually was the only one to rise from the dead. Maybe He actually is the only begotten Son of God and if so.... that requires allegiance to His words and obedience to his commands. There’s the rub for the “soft” Christians.


27 posted on 04/24/2007 11:19:11 AM PDT by rtbwood (rtbwood)
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To: Rodm

Yes, rock music, coffee and A.D.H.D.-friendly services are “typical” of emerging churches, but that’s pretty much everywhere now anyway. That’s not what defines them. You might call them post-modern, but it might be more accurate to call them post-Dobson or post-Falwell. They have little or no affinity for the Evangelical mainstream or its nexus with Republican politics.


28 posted on 04/24/2007 11:27:15 AM PDT by LikeLight (tagline expired - do you wish to renew?)
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To: Antoninus

our new (Jesuit) pastor makes sure there is a weekly invocation that all world leaders seek justice for all - but the only time in the 7 or 8 months he led an invocation for the safety of our military folks was at Christmas and Easter - every other Sunday it’s all about ‘justice’.


29 posted on 04/24/2007 11:30:55 AM PDT by NHResident
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To: LikeLight

Maybe they are just to damn dumb to vote. I still think you should have to pass a test. Have some understanding of issues and how gov. works. Being a tax payer would be a help too.


30 posted on 04/24/2007 11:32:39 AM PDT by mimaw
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To: mimaw
Being a tax payer would be a help too.

If I had my way, being a taxpayer would be an absolute requirement to vote. Also, every Federal election would take place on or around April 15(when the pain is fresh).

31 posted on 04/24/2007 11:36:55 AM PDT by Marathoner
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To: what's up

“They are after the soft Christians
These are the Christians the poster is talking about.”

Hardly anything to worry about. The left has figured out that attacking the Church is futile. If anything it tends to energize the so-called Religious Right. We’ve seen this coming for some time now. They’re attempting to co-opt or hijack the backbone of the Republican base with semantics and posturing. The real problem for them is no one is buying it. THey’ve taken the term “church” and applied it to a group who’s never given a rip about the Bible or Christianity (beyond imposing their own beliefs on the same). Same old libs, new name.


32 posted on 04/24/2007 11:39:07 AM PDT by bereanway
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To: Marathoner

I agree. I think that the franchise should be limited to those otherwise qualified who pay at least one net dollar in tax to the governing jurisdiction. Anyone living on the dole must forebear.


33 posted on 04/24/2007 11:41:29 AM PDT by BelegStrongbow (www.stjosephssanford.org: Ecce Pactum, id cape aut id relinque)
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To: keepitreal
From Wikipedia

Their acceptance of diversity and reliance on open dialogue rather than the dogmatic proclamation found in historic Christianity leads emergents to diverse beliefs and moral standards.

Sounds like a good plan for engaging the world and losing to it.

34 posted on 04/24/2007 11:41:36 AM PDT by JohnnyZ ("I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose" -- Mitt Romney, April 2002)
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To: Marathoner

Most Americans feel no pain on April 15 - in fact, they’re getting their refunds and celebrating. That’s a huge flaw in the system - primarily only those of us with our own businesses actually feel the pain. The rest are insulated by witholding and all the tax credits.


35 posted on 04/24/2007 11:42:34 AM PDT by LikeLight (tagline expired - do you wish to renew?)
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To: bereanway
The real problem for them is no one is buying it.

There are examples on this thread of how christians ARE buying it.

Many, many christians are NOT fiscal conservatives. They are very weak on the message of socialism.

The left made huge inroads in the South American church using this same social justice approach.

36 posted on 04/24/2007 11:43:36 AM PDT by what's up
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To: keepitreal
Many “members” of the emerging “church” (funny terms since many advocate that church is toxic) are post-modernists. By definition, they do not believe in Truth (each person can have his own “truth”). When they have no Truth, it is easily to go whichever way the wind blows.

Precisely.

"...paradoxically there is one idea that it treats as unquestioned truth -- namely, Darwinism itself. Evolution is treated as an objective fact and not merely a human construction -- because unless it is true, there's no reason for accepting postmodernism. If the mind is a product of Darwinian evolution, then ideas and words are merely tools for controlling the environment, including other people." Nancy Pearcey, Total Truth, p. 243.

37 posted on 04/24/2007 11:47:13 AM PDT by umbagi
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To: what's up

It’s public education’s failure to teach free market economics coming home to roost. Socialism sounds so fair and compassionate to those who are ignorant of economics and history.


38 posted on 04/24/2007 11:47:44 AM PDT by LikeLight (tagline expired - do you wish to renew?)
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To: LikeLight
Socialism sounds so fair and compassionate to those who are ignorant of economics and history.

Very true.

39 posted on 04/24/2007 11:49:07 AM PDT by what's up
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To: ktupper

What is “social justice”? I’m not intending to be a smart alec here. It is a term I’ve heard several times in reference to things that our congregation should be mindful of- and it always gives me a pause. I associate the term as some sort of leftist codeword. Clarification, anyone?


40 posted on 04/24/2007 11:51:51 AM PDT by philled (The Democrat's 'new vision' for Iraq looks a lot like Pol Pot wearing a turban...)
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To: what's up
"There are many, many christians who are conservative on abortion and homosexuality but who are not fiscal conservatives."

I'm kind of in that camp, but I AM a fiscal conservative on the budget and deficit spending, and the Bush Republicans have blown that issue too. I remember thinking while all that wrangling was going on in Florida after the 2000 election, that the guy who won might end up wishing he hadn't. Somehow I felt an ill wind blowing, and that miserable, cold wet weather on Bush's first election day just reaffirmed my foreboding.
41 posted on 04/24/2007 11:52:57 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: ktupper

Obama is the biggest pro baby murderer running today. If they will vote for Him, they definitely need to go back to their Bibles.

What kind of “Christian” board do you go to that is pro abortion? I can’t say I’ve run into any of this except a few who have joined boards recently and are trying to sway people.

It may be like the situation we are having now on Freerepublic. There are people with an agenda who are trying to control the blogosphere the way they control the media. Just as here on this board, there may be a few liberals and RINOs out there thinking they can stir things up or at least confuse conservatives into giving up early or supporting liberal candidates. The easiest way to stop them on a Christian board is with God’s Word. No Bible believing Christian is willing to sacrifice babies for a global warming candidate.


42 posted on 04/24/2007 11:53:04 AM PDT by Waryone
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To: philled

“Social justice” and “peace and justice” are indeed leftists code words, or phrases. People who use those terms love Castro and hate Bush.


43 posted on 04/24/2007 11:55:13 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: what's up

South American church was much different with various movements like liberation theology playing a prominent role. The backbone of the Religious Right is not fiscal (although most are fiscally conservative) but rather social conservatism. Again, the only people listening are the libs and others who would be considered Christian in only the most nominal sense. That is not the Religious Right and it is not those who subscribe to a biblical worldview (in fact just the opposite).


44 posted on 04/24/2007 11:57:20 AM PDT by bereanway
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth
As far as I can tell, you're close.

It seems to be a movement of people who enjoy the trappings of feelgood, megachurch Rick Warrenism but who think its gauche to criticize personal immorality.

It's much easier to call for "social justice" than to say: "Stop murdering babies!"

45 posted on 04/24/2007 12:04:08 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: LikeLight

Just a fancy name for “The Church of What’s Happenin’ Now.”

Living the Word isn’t easy, it’s tough. These people don’t have the guts to live it out; they want easy answers and a soft life. “No sin” means “no consquences” to them.

And Satan laughs...


46 posted on 04/24/2007 12:04:55 PM PDT by henkster (Al Gore is the second coming...of Trofim Lysenko)
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To: LikeLight
It’s more about attempting to do Christianity without so much of the usual Church baggage.

Care to explain that a bit more?

47 posted on 04/24/2007 12:07:43 PM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: what's up
"Many, many christians are NOT fiscal conservatives. They are very weak on the message of socialism."

I keep hearing the fiscal conservatives say this. I wonder if they really don't understand what the Bible says when it calls Christians to feed the sick, the poor, the orphan, and widow. It does not say anything about coercing other people into giving up their hard earned funds.

If you believe in the Bible you won't believe in stealing from non-Christians in order to do the work that we as Christians have been given to complete.

48 posted on 04/24/2007 12:11:11 PM PDT by Waryone
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To: philled

I think what social justice is, and what some people mean when they say it are 2 different things.

For example, cheating the poor out of their just wages is a terrible sin. I would think social justice addresses that. Child labor laws, not following basic safety laws for workers, etc are things that come to my mind.

But again, if a leftist is talking...


49 posted on 04/24/2007 12:11:43 PM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: ktupper

Bellevue Baptist, Cordova, Tenn. Cornerstone of So. Baptist.

Is in a horrible mess. Check wwwsavingbellevue.org.


50 posted on 04/24/2007 12:16:20 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek (President Fred Thompson will finally give the University of Memphis the respect that it is due!)
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