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Move to block emissions 'swindle' DVD [Global Warming]
Guardian ^

Posted on 04/25/2007 12:41:58 AM PDT by Omega Man II

Move to block emissions 'swindle' DVD

· Climate scientists say film misleads public · Wag TV producers reject 'contemptible gag attempt'

David Adam, environment correspondent

Wednesday April 25, 2007

The Guardian

Dozens of climate scientists are trying to block the DVD release of a controversial Channel 4 programme that claimed global warming is nothing to do with human greenhouse gas emissions.

Sir John Houghton, former head of the Met Office, and Bob May, former president of the Royal Society, are among 37 experts who have called for the DVD to be heavily edited or removed from sale. The film, the Great Global Warming Swindle, was first shown on March 8, and was criticised by scientists as distorted and misleading.

(Excerpt) Read more at environment.guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: climatechange; globalwarming
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To: AndyTheBear
"sounding an alarm about automobile emisions increasing dramatically to about 6.8 billion tons per year"

Note that China apparently has a huge number of underground coal fires that produce as much CO2/yr as all the US cars and private light trucks do (estimates run from this value to 1/2 of it). Perhaps the Kyoto types would like to go put out those fires (good luck).

51 posted on 04/25/2007 5:13:37 AM PDT by Paladin2 (Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
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To: RichRepublican

Link bump


52 posted on 04/25/2007 5:16:47 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name after Harper's election?)
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To: Bob
One possible factor is the reduced capacity of the water in the oceans to hold CO2 as its temperature increases. A warm soda goes flat (from losing CO2) a lot quicker than a cold one does.

That is exactly right. I use this example when I explain the Global Warming - Carbon Dioxide Hoax to my 80+ year old parents and my 8 year old grandson. They all 'get it'. Take that Al Gore.

53 posted on 04/25/2007 5:32:38 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: aruanan

Both the “natural” changes in levels of atmospheric CO2 and anthropogenic changes are effects of a cause that lies entirely outside the realm of human control.

&&&&&

Nothing is outside the realm of human control to secular humanists, who have convinced themselves of their own power, in lieu of any “higher” power.


54 posted on 04/25/2007 5:34:16 AM PDT by maica (America will be a hyperpower that's all hype and no power -- if we do not prevail in Iraq)
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To: justa-hairyape

Bingo!


55 posted on 04/25/2007 6:00:14 AM PDT by BillM
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To: Gondring

As a scientist, I find it fascinating that you take a single point value for 2006 and feel you can plot it and compare it with computed statistical values that make up the curves. Do you know what the raw data, and it’s distribution look like?

If you average 1 and 100 you get 50.5 if you draw a line at 50.5, either of the only 2 values look outrageous.

Don’t go where you are so obviously unequipped to venture. It takes a few years to become a real scientist!


56 posted on 04/25/2007 6:08:15 AM PDT by BillM
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To: Omega Man II

SO MUCH FOR “DIVERSITY.”


57 posted on 04/25/2007 6:15:00 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: Zon
“THE URGE TO SAVE HUMANITY IS OFTEN A FALSE FRONT FOR THE URGE TO RULE .” H.L. Mencken
58 posted on 04/25/2007 6:20:07 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: Omega Man II

I was able to download this a few weeks ago and I STILL haven’t been able to digest all the great information they put into this. It’s a big pill to swallow.


59 posted on 04/25/2007 6:26:02 AM PDT by Live free or die
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To: WildcatClan

bump


60 posted on 04/25/2007 6:26:23 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Killing all of your enemies without mercy is the only sure way of sleeping soundly at night.)
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To: Gondring
Good tries and good posting.

At FR there used to be a real debate about climate change with some truly intelligent and well-informed Freepers.

At this point only the Limbaugh informed and head in the sand Freepers actually show up for climate change issues. The rest have moved on to finding market-based, conservative solutions.

You can expect a lot of projection. You will be called wacky or crazy or blind, blah, blah, blah.

Some people just cannot admit being wrong.

My favourite part is that they will actually paint a picture where the only alternative to doing nothing is to do what the wacky left suggests - as if there are no logical solutions, that Americans are completely incapable of rising to the challenge and that a smaller call and fluorescent light bulb will mean the end of civilization as we know it.

Sometimes, I tend to think these people just work for the oil or coal companies.

61 posted on 04/25/2007 7:35:30 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (I don't care what side of the debate you are on: Weather is not Climate)
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To: maica
Nothing is outside the realm of human control to secular humanists, who have convinced themselves of their own power, in lieu of any “higher” power.

In other words: I believe, therefore, everything else is.
62 posted on 04/25/2007 7:46:18 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Omega Man II

Bump


63 posted on 04/25/2007 7:47:14 AM PDT by painter (We celebrate liberty which comes from God not from government.)
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To: Omega Man II
“Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at MIT, and another signatory to the letter, was featured in the film and subsequently said his views had been misrepresented. He called the programme “as close to pure propaganda as anything since world war two” and has complained to Ofcom, the broadcasting regulator, about his treatment.”

Guess he hasn’t see Algore’s film or anything done by that fat guy.

So, if there is so much wrong with “Swindle” why don’t they explain what it is? The only comment directed toward data or statistical info was in re to volcanoes and CO2 emission, and yet there was no reference to any data where people could confirm or refute the point.

Why am I not surprised.

64 posted on 04/25/2007 7:53:25 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Crom! Non-Sequitur = Pee Wee Herman.)
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To: Omega Man II

This is a terrific video. This is what should be shown to schoolkids instead of Al Gore’s Oscar winning propaganda film.


65 posted on 04/25/2007 7:56:00 AM PDT by Gritty (Historically, the claim of consensus to avoid debate was the first refuge of scoundrels-M Crichton)
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To: aruanan

Sad but true. The former [terrible] mayor of Baltimore created a campaign called BELIEVE with banners of that word hanging on every public building in the city.

Believe that Baltimoreans are not shooting each other at a record pace.
Believe that Baltimore children are attending adequate schools.
Believe that you do not live in squalor in decaying neighborhoods.
Etc.

He was rewarded for his vision by being voted governor of Maryland!


66 posted on 04/25/2007 8:01:42 AM PDT by maica (America will be a hyperpower that's all hype and no power -- if we do not prevail in Iraq)
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To: Omega Man II

My wife and I watched it the other night on YouTube. It was very thought provoking. I have no doubt that the GW alarmist don’t want people to see it. It should be shown nationally here, but never will be. At worst it should be shown in any school that has been forced to show Big Al crap.


67 posted on 04/25/2007 8:05:35 AM PDT by redangus
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To: Lancey Howard

One of the scientist, when talking about funding said that if you want funding for anything today you have to include GW in your request. His example was the mating habits of Squirrels or something like that and how it is effected by GW.


68 posted on 04/25/2007 8:07:10 AM PDT by redangus
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To: AndyTheBear

Yes. It’s true. Annual input from combustion is about 150 times that as from volcanic activity.

But reality doesn’t matter. All you have to do is ignore the facts and you too can put together a fake Michael-Moore-style “documentary”... :-(


69 posted on 04/25/2007 8:10:57 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Zon

One of the points made in another documentary we watched recently was the convenient decision to start the present temp lines from the coldest year of the recent ‘Little Ice Age”.


70 posted on 04/25/2007 8:29:34 AM PDT by redangus
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To: Bob

Why would increasing temp cause increasing CO2 ?

Are we not teaching science anymore?

Increasing temperature will increase the speed of chemical reactions. It also increases the rate of respiration. Of course the world is more complicated than this but .......... Photosynthesis is a chemical reaction that increases along with respiration. Almost all plants are c02 starved.


71 posted on 04/25/2007 8:34:10 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: Bob

You will also notice that if you raise the temp and aerate a swimming pool the alkalinity drops as CO2 is released.


72 posted on 04/25/2007 8:34:44 AM PDT by redangus
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To: redangus
One of the scientist, when talking about funding said that if you want funding for anything today you have to include GW in your request. His example was the mating habits of Squirrels or something like that and how it is effected by GW.

Yep. "Global warming" is a scam. Follow the money.
Always follow the money.

73 posted on 04/25/2007 8:35:26 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Bob

One possible factor is the reduced capacity of the water in the oceans to hold CO2 as its temperature increases. A warm soda goes flat (from losing CO2) a lot quicker than a cold one does.

And that begs the questions, What are liberals going to drink when carbonated beverages are outlawed?


74 posted on 04/25/2007 8:36:10 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: Gondring

:It’s a shame that those who feel our climate change isn’t anthropogenic feel they must resort to Michael Moore-style lies to make their case.

Accusing one's opposition of one's own sins hardly a new gambit.

But then, more in politics than any other endevour the bigger the fabrication, the more likely it will be received by the intended audience:

 

 

POLITICS OF CATASTROPHE IN A NUTSHELL:
(Lessons of history)

 

“The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
-- H. L. Mencken

  • “A hypothesis is always preferable to the truth, for we tailor a hypothesis to fit our opinion of the truth, whereas the truth is only its own awkward self. Ergo, never discover the truth when a hypothesis will do.”

  • “For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearances, as though they were realities, and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are.”

  • “Therefore a wise prince ought to adopt such a course that his citizens will always in every sort and kind of circumstance have need of the state and of him, and then he will always find them faithful.”

  • “Besides what has been said, people are fickle by nature; and it is a simple to convince them of something but difficult to hold them in that conviction; and, therefore, affairs should be managed in such a way that when they no longer believe, they can be made to believe by force.”
    -- Nicolo Machiavelli

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”
-- H. L. Mencken

 


75 posted on 04/25/2007 8:42:35 AM PDT by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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To: Gondring
But reality doesn’t matter. All you have to do is ignore the facts and you too can put together a fake Michael-Moore-style “documentary”... :-(

Still squirting ink like a squid, I see.
76 posted on 04/25/2007 8:44:49 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: redangus

One of the points made in another documentary we watched recently was the convenient decision to start the present temp lines from the coldest year of the recent ‘Little Ice Age”.

A deception by omission. Figure 1 (the first graph) is the truth. Taken alone as supposed proof of global warming is a deception by omission.  This is but one example why persons should dump the word truth and use honesty instead. Truth changes with context. Honesty doesn't.

With truth there is gray areas. With honesty there's none.

77 posted on 04/25/2007 8:46:38 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: redangus
You will also notice that if you raise the temp and aerate a swimming pool the alkalinity drops as CO2 is released.

I would expect that the alkalinity of the water would increase rather than decrease as the dissolved CO2 is released.

When water has CO2 dissolved in it, IIRC, some amount of carbonic acid results, though I'm not sure how much. The acidity of the water should decrease as the CO2 is released, unless I'm thinking about this wrong.

78 posted on 04/25/2007 8:47:08 AM PDT by Bob
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To: BillM
As someone who works with massive amounts of seismic data and the processing of that data, your reply was spot on! People think they can take a few points or use some ridiculous term such as global “average” temperature and think it means something. A global “average” temperature is meaningless in a non-equilibrium environment such as the Earth’s. Especially when it is temperature differences which drive the weather.
79 posted on 04/25/2007 8:49:46 AM PDT by avacado
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To: PeterPrinciple
Why would increasing temp cause increasing CO2 ?

Are we not teaching science anymore?

Increasing temperature will increase the speed of chemical reactions. It also increases the rate of respiration. Of course the world is more complicated than this but .......... Photosynthesis is a chemical reaction that increases along with respiration. Almost all plants are c02 starved.

I can't figure out whether you're disagreeing with me or adding other possible factors.

80 posted on 04/25/2007 8:58:14 AM PDT by Bob
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To: Omega Man II

Durkin should just fix the documentary and release it.

There are two problems with the documentary:

- “That volcanoes emit more CO2 than man” - Not true - Just change it to “natural sources” emit over 20 times as much CO2 as man - True

- “The satellites do not show an increase in temperatures” - The MSU satellites of the NOAA used to show no real change in lower troposphere temperatures (as would be expected with global warming) but the satellites were found to have a few processing errors and have now been corrected showing a small warming (about half of what the global warmers are predicting);

Other than that, it is primarily factual.

Some argue that the temperature chart showing cooling from 1940 to 1975 is not accurate. Well it is accurate if you use the actual temperature measurements (versus the global warmer’s adjusted temperature trendline which has adjusted the raw data about 4 times now so that it shows global warming.)

Now compare that to Al Gore’s fabrication which is being forced on nearly every school child.


81 posted on 04/25/2007 9:04:30 AM PDT by JustDoItAlways
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To: aruanan

Just had time for a quick reply. Do you oppose me posting a confirmation of factual information, just because it goes against what some people would want reality to be?


82 posted on 04/25/2007 9:23:23 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: texianyankee; JayB; ElkGroveDan; markman46; palmer; Bahbah; Paradox; FOG724; Mike Darancette; ...
DOOMAGE!

Global Warming PING!

You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming.

Freep-mail DaveLoneRanger to get on or off: Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.

Oil-Sands Obstacle: Emissions

If Greens Persist, That Incandescent Glow May Flicker and Dim

Global Warming on FreeRepublic

Latest from Global Warming News Site

Latest from Junk Science (scroll down)

CO2 Science, Vol. 10, No. 17

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Hurricane Spin

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Mosquito Genes Explain Response To Climate Change

Are Pies In The Sky A Solution To Global Warming

Satellites Offer Sunny Outlook On Understanding Polar Climate With Help Of Cloudy Skies

Canada's Conservatives outline planned CO2 cuts

Greens accuse EU parliament of turning out too much hot air

83 posted on 04/25/2007 10:46:20 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (G*d bless and heal Virginia Tech!)
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To: Gondring
It’s a shame that those who feel our climate change isn’t anthropogenic feel they must resort to Michael Moore-style lies to make their case.

It's a shame that liberals always have to resort to trying to shut people up in order to avoid having their ideas exposed as a fraud.

84 posted on 04/25/2007 10:56:12 AM PDT by xjcsa (The "average temperature" of the earth is as meaningful as the "average number" in a phone book.)
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To: Bob

I don’t know the chemistry (though I should), but I can tell you if you need to lower the alkalinity in your pool the easiest way to do it is to raise the temps and aerate. What you also find out when you own a swimming pool is that there is a tenuous connection between alkalinity and pH. They are related but not directly. We often have a 200+ Alk reading and a pH of 6-6.5 at the same time, which technically would seem to be impossible, but I can attest to the fact it isn’t.

For years we tried to balance that out by adding Bicarb or borax to raise the pH, but would end up with an over the top Alk. reading (less so with the borax). Then we would add acid to bring down the Alk reading and the pH would plummet. Since learning this little secret of heat and aeration we have brought the Alk. down from close to 230ppm to 100 or less in 3-4 days without adding chemicals and without screwing up the pH.


85 posted on 04/25/2007 11:06:15 AM PDT by redangus
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To: AndyTheBear

Great tagline.


86 posted on 04/25/2007 11:07:48 AM PDT by GATOR NAVY
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To: Zon

Thanks for the charts!


87 posted on 04/25/2007 11:16:41 AM PDT by Edgerunner (keep your powder dry...)
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To: Omega Man II

Nothing funnier than an elephant with fleas crawling up her belly; swat, crash; swat, crash...


88 posted on 04/25/2007 11:24:25 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: xjcsa
It's a shame that liberals always have to resort to trying to shut people up in order to avoid having their ideas exposed as a fraud.

Agreed...and I'd extend that to both sides, of this debate and others.

89 posted on 04/25/2007 11:24:50 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Omega Man II
Global Warming is a liberal religion, not science. How dare you question the Church Of Al Gore! Take the unbelievers to the stake and burn them!

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

90 posted on 04/25/2007 11:27:12 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Gondring
Agreed...and I'd extend that to both sides, of this debate and others.

Riiight. "Both sides do it," eh? Bill O'Reilly, is that you?

91 posted on 04/25/2007 11:31:10 AM PDT by xjcsa (The "average temperature" of the earth is as meaningful as the "average number" in a phone book.)
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To: redangus
I'm not at all sure how the term alkalinity measured in ppm is used in swimming pool chemistry.

I was using it within the chemical context of the pH scale. I was speaking in terms of a pH value of 7.0 being neutral, with values under 7.0 being acidic, and above 7.0 alkaline.

92 posted on 04/25/2007 12:09:52 PM PDT by Bob
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To: Edgerunner

Happy to help.


93 posted on 04/25/2007 12:13:08 PM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: PeterPrinciple

The liberals will drink what they always drink...............Kool-Aid :)


94 posted on 04/25/2007 12:15:15 PM PDT by WildcatClan (Just wait till the Pretendicans have to debate, Hunter in '08)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
Sometimes, I tend to think these people just work for the oil or coal companies.

Then sometimes you live in a fantasy world.

95 posted on 04/25/2007 12:34:33 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Gondring
Yes. It’s true. Annual input from combustion is about 150 times that as from volcanic activity.

What are the values and how do I verify them? There is a lot of contradictory info out there.

96 posted on 04/25/2007 12:49:59 PM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: Omega Man II
I thought for sure they must have written these words to the Goreacle, that distinguished climate scientist Albore:

"We believe that the misrepresentation of facts and views, both of which occur in your programme, are so serious that repeat broadcasts of the programme, without amendment, are not in the public interest ... In fact, so serious and fundamental are the misrepresentations that the distribution of the DVD of the programme without their removal amounts to nothing more than an exercise in misleading the public."
97 posted on 04/25/2007 1:03:56 PM PDT by Enchante (Liefong, Fitzfong, Earlefong, Schumfong, Waxfong, Pelosifong.... see a pattern here?!?)
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To: Bob

See point #5 in my profile. CO2 solubility in seawater does not cause this observation.


98 posted on 04/25/2007 1:10:35 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: WildcatClan
Correct, and the case was made for that in the program. Good explanation with the soda btw.

Actually, markedly incorrect -- one of numerous points on which the program was egregiously in error. See point #5 in my profile.

99 posted on 04/25/2007 1:11:41 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: AndyTheBear
The late 19th century and early 20th century direct measurements tend to disagree drastically varying from 280 to 550.

Are you getting that from Zbigniew?

The older ice core data is congruent with the newer ice core data (different sites) and shows that at the end of the Younger Dryas -- official initiation of the Holocene -- CO2 in the atmosphere was about 280 ppm. Anything substantially above that (+15 ppm or higher) until "agriculturalization" in the early 1700s, when there was the beginning of increase due to land-use alteration, should be discarded as incorrect.


100 posted on 04/25/2007 1:18:16 PM PDT by cogitator
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