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Why Is Pizza Shop Owner That Shot Armed Robber Having to Defend Himself?
Fox News ^ | John Gibson

Posted on 04/25/2007 10:34:29 AM PDT by CCCnative

A story in the San Francisco Chronicle today describes a shooting in East Oakland in which a beloved young rapper was gunned down in the prime of life.

The rapper's nickname was Boonie, and not far from where he was shot dead a memorial has sprung up with flowers and hand-printed messages from his many friends in the neighborhood. "The world's gonna miss u," read one message. ... an Oakland cop actually saying he wants the citizens he is supposed to protect let themselves be victimized rather than defend themselves. Holmgren said: "We're not saying that we want citizens to go out there and arm themselves and take the law into their own hands. We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects."

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; rapartist; robbery; selfdefense
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I recommend reading the whole article. Self defense seems like it is only justifiable if the other guy shoots first. I suppose the robber could have called ahead and told the owner he was only doing this for show.
1 posted on 04/25/2007 10:34:34 AM PDT by CCCnative
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To: CCCnative

Because a portion of America is insane and has been hoodwinked


2 posted on 04/25/2007 10:37:19 AM PDT by enough_idiocy (Communist Goals (1963) Have Come to Fruition Today http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: CCCnative; DaveLoneRanger

I bet Tameka in Cleveland would be outraged........Outraged that the Pizza Owner wasn’t arrested for murder!........

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1822587/posts


4 posted on 04/25/2007 10:39:38 AM PDT by Red Badger (If it's consensus, it's not science. If it's science, there's no need for consensus......)
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To: CCCnative
Thats what it is coming to, you have to prove you protected your self and only narrowly escaped death. Otherwise you’re going down for manslaughter and the punk that was robbing you will be the victim. Oh, you had better kill him too, else be liable for his medical bills, and stand by to pay his family out in a civil case to.

THIS IS F’N NUTS!!!!

5 posted on 04/25/2007 10:39:53 AM PDT by chaos_5
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To: enough_idiocy

Once again, another superb example of that all important Democratic principle: Talk is precious, action is cheap.

Meanwhile, the punk who put a gun at the business owner’s head is viewed as a good person.

Pretzel logic is alive and well in the Bay area.


6 posted on 04/25/2007 10:40:31 AM PDT by RexBeach
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Bang


7 posted on 04/25/2007 10:41:34 AM PDT by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed * NRA *JPFO *SAF *GOA* SAS)
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To: rrc
The article doesn't say, and it's irrelevant anyway.

They guy's in trouble because he was foolish enough to operate a family business in E. Oakland.

8 posted on 04/25/2007 10:43:19 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Don't ask.)
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To: CCCnative

But if the cop had been working a second job at his families pizza joint when it got robbed and he felt his family was threatened he would have said it was his duty as a cop to protect his family.


9 posted on 04/25/2007 10:44:18 AM PDT by ibbryn (this tag intentionally left blank)
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To: CCCnative
We want citizens to be good witnesses...

"Officer, you see that dead guy over there on the floor.......Yeah....He's the guy you're looking for."

10 posted on 04/25/2007 10:47:30 AM PDT by Onelifetogive (Liberals are willing to sacrifice any amount of someone else's money to increase their own power...)
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To: chaos_5
I don't doubt for a New-York-minute that there will likely be an increase in "midnight burials".

Store owners, besieged by idiotic families filing lawsuits for some quick easy cash, will avoid going bankrupt by killing the perp, skip calling the police, quietly clean up, and then make a midnight trip to dump the body somewhere.

11 posted on 04/25/2007 10:47:53 AM PDT by kromike
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To: kromike

S.S.S.


12 posted on 04/25/2007 10:49:25 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: CCCnative

“to be good report-takers and to identify suspects.”

The perfect “liberal” response,...talk, all talk and nothing but talk. No action, no reality, no pragmatism, no self-defense. Just be a victim even if it causes your own death. Better you than one of the poor “minority” criminal thugs and gansta’s.


13 posted on 04/25/2007 10:50:49 AM PDT by garyhope (It's World War IV, right here, right now courtesy of Islam.)
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To: CCCnative
"Holmgren(the chief) said: "We're not saying that we want citizens to go out there and arm themselves and take the law into their own hands. We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects."

The law recognizes self defense chief. Excersizing self defense is not taking the law into one's own hands and You're not the law you friggin' idiot.

14 posted on 04/25/2007 10:52:18 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: CCCnative
...Oakland cop actually saying he wants the citizens he is supposed to protect let themselves be victimized rather than defend themselves. Holmgren said: "We're not saying that we want citizens to go out there and arm themselves and take the law into their own hands. We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects."

He wants citizens to be murdered in their own homes and businesses. Defending their lives and property against some murdering thug is not "taking the law into their own hands" you stupid jackbooted thug-with-a-badge.

15 posted on 04/25/2007 10:52:19 AM PDT by lesser_satan (FRED THOMPSON '08)
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To: CCCnative
Here's the link to the video of John Gibon's My Word on this segment.

Link

16 posted on 04/25/2007 10:53:10 AM PDT by jazusamo (http://warchronicle.com/TheyAreNotKillers/DefendOurMarines.htm)
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To: CCCnative
We want citizens to be good witnesses little lemmings, to be good report-takers boot lickers and to identify suspects."

There, fixed it.

17 posted on 04/25/2007 10:53:54 AM PDT by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: CCCnative

It’s always better to be judged by 12 strangers than carried by 6 friends.


18 posted on 04/25/2007 10:56:01 AM PDT by fso301
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To: chaos_5
I think (legally) the only way you are in “deep crap” is if you shoot the criminal in the back. SOOOOOOO make sure it’s a frontal shot, and empty all rounds into the now DEAD criminal as you will have less of a chance of being sued by CRIMINAL at a later date.
19 posted on 04/25/2007 10:56:58 AM PDT by PEACE ENFORCER (Liberals; People That are So Open minded Their Brains Have Fallen Out !)
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To: CCCnative
The pizza owner might have had a parade down Market Street in San Francisco. Instead, he's scared. He won't even say he's glad he defended his family, and the cops are saying things like this from Officer Roland Holmgren, who said, "Who knows where the suspects were going to take the situation? But by no stretch of the imagination are we agreeing with or justifying what the owner did."

And who knew where Timothy McVeigh was going to take the situation on April 19, 1995 when he decided to take his truck out for a drive?

"We're not saying that we want citizens to go out there and arm themselves and take the law into their own hands. We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects."

Citizens don't need to take the law into their own hands, that's what the police are for. However, citizens need to take their safety into their own hands, which is what the owner did, because it's hard to be a good witness when your body is room temperature.

20 posted on 04/25/2007 10:58:28 AM PDT by Quick or Dead (Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms - Aristotle)
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To: Onelifetogive

LOL Honestly, it’s probably the only way he would be caught.


21 posted on 04/25/2007 10:58:45 AM PDT by flutters (God Bless The USA)
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To: CCCnative
"We're not saying that we want citizens to go out there and arm themselves and take the law into their own hands. We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects."

Nothing frightens politicians like armed citizens willing to defend themselves and their self interest for the sake of justice. From the perspective of a corrupt politician, the difference between armed citizens writing injustice (possibly their own corrupt practices) and mob rule is too close to handle.

My experience is that the more corrupt the political jurisdiction, the more they want only the police to have firearms. There may be exceptions, but if you look at the major cities with the most restrictive gun laws in the US you will see a long history of political corruption.

22 posted on 04/25/2007 11:00:20 AM PDT by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: spunkets

California does not recognize the right to self-defense.


23 posted on 04/25/2007 11:04:17 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: CCCnative

One less “rap ah”.


24 posted on 04/25/2007 11:05:39 AM PDT by Red6 (Come and take it.)
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To: CCCnative

Decent people can’t live in hellholes like Oakland. Get out run for your life. It is Zimbabwe in places like that. It is a jungle and the animals rule.


25 posted on 04/25/2007 11:07:11 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: CCCnative

I wonder what the good officer Holmgren would have done if a thug placed a gun to the head of one of his family members.


26 posted on 04/25/2007 11:08:46 AM PDT by dashing doofus (Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber)
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To: Robert357

If business owners have to be treated like this then maybe more of them should just close up shop. This will lead to more economic downturns in “bad” neighborhoods. Then the community leaders will complain about poverty and the lack of opportunity in their areas. Sheesh.


27 posted on 04/25/2007 11:08:48 AM PDT by TNCMAXQ
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To: CCCnative
...We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects.

I guess he hadn't heard the latest from the rapper Cam'ron.

-PJ

28 posted on 04/25/2007 11:14:18 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: ibbryn

That cop should work in Oakland unarmed. I’m saying that as a former cop who worked south central L.A. during the time of black panthers/crips.


29 posted on 04/25/2007 11:14:41 AM PDT by stumpy
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To: chaos_5

Does the NRA defend people in a situation like this pizza shop owner?

If they don’t have such a program, they should have.

Anyone know?


30 posted on 04/25/2007 11:17:50 AM PDT by Let's Roll (As usual, following a shooting spree, libs want to take guns away from those who DIDN'T do it.)
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To: enough_idiocy

“Because a portion of America is insane and has been hoodwinked”

Exactly. Hey man, that RICH dude who owns the pizza shop was oppressin’ the poor, noble rapper, who DESERVED to take the money the pizza owner wouldn’t give him!
And then to shoot him while the good, noble, rapper was robbing him? Maaaan, dat ain’t right!

How it is that a portion of our population believes this way is just unbelievable.


31 posted on 04/25/2007 11:18:00 AM PDT by KingRonnie9
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To: Letaka; Froufrou

Crazy World ping


32 posted on 04/25/2007 11:25:04 AM PDT by Shimmer128 (I see dumb people. They're everywhere. They don't even know they're dumb.)
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To: PEACE ENFORCER

What is the penalty for public officials who do not honor their oath of office? Unfortunately, there is none! We citizens need to fix that little problem so we can keep our public servants in line.

Herein, we have a story about a very bad police officer with a socialist (big government) attitude who should be immediately fired.

Think not? Let’s get real here. Turn this question around: Were he working his wife’s shop one night while his whole family were in back, does anyone really believe this guy would NOT pop a cap on the perp if given the chance for a clean shot — or would he just be a “citizen witness and report-taker,” as he says others should do?

Throw the bum out! He’s a very poor public servant.


33 posted on 04/25/2007 11:27:18 AM PDT by Doug Fiedor
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To: Spktyr
"California does not recognize the right to self-defense. "

Sure they do. These clowns don't, but the law does. That's why they can't charge this guy with anything, even though they love to.

34 posted on 04/25/2007 11:28:31 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: Spktyr
California does not recognize the right to self-defense.

Sorry, but you are wrong, CA does recognize the right to self defense, SF trys to suppress it but so far they haven't succeeded.

35 posted on 04/25/2007 11:30:15 AM PDT by calex59
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To: spunkets

Yep. Holmgren can flap all he wants. The owner of the pizza shop isn’t going to be prosecuted. Holmgren gets NO say in that.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1822285/posts


36 posted on 04/25/2007 11:32:13 AM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (Fight Crime. Shoot Back.)
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To: CCCnative
It's interesting.

Stores in the inner city are never held up by thugs, or armed robbers or gangsters.

They are held up by "aspiring musicians", "aspiring professional athletes", "high school juniors" etc.

37 posted on 04/25/2007 11:32:30 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: CCCnative

Steal here die here. End of discussion, officer.


38 posted on 04/25/2007 11:34:25 AM PDT by TigersEye (For Democrats; victory in Iraq is not an option.)
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To: CCCnative

“We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects.”

Kinda hard to do this if you are dead. Just when you think things can’t get any more insane......


39 posted on 04/25/2007 11:35:29 AM PDT by Scarlet Pimpernel
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To: wideawake
"Stores in the inner city are never held up by thugs, or armed robbers or gangsters. They are held up by "aspiring musicians", "aspiring professional athletes", "high school juniors" etc."

It's a non-judgmental thing, or just mental if one prefers accuracy.

40 posted on 04/25/2007 11:35:48 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: CCCnative
Holmgren wants subjects not citizens. I will not give up my second amendment rights because someone wants to be a cop.
41 posted on 04/25/2007 11:38:08 AM PDT by 4yearlurker (Liberals, A terrorists best friend!)
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To: Onelifetogive

Best witness you could ask for! He kept track of ALL the evidence!


42 posted on 04/25/2007 11:41:32 AM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascists, now ACT LIKE IT!)
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To: CCCnative
"We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects.""

He's right, you know. If only the Virginia Tech shooter had known the cops were only there to observe and take notes he wouldn't have gotten nervous and shot himself by accident, prematurely ending his right to act out his aggression.

We must continue to provide safe, target-rich environments for these poor souls or become known as a nation that has little regard for its troubled yutes.

43 posted on 04/25/2007 11:41:43 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: CCCnative
Oakland cop actually saying he wants the citizens he is supposed to protect let themselves be victimized rather than defend themselves. Holmgren said: "We're not saying that we want citizens to go out there and arm themselves and take the law into their own hands. We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects."

Where are the copsuckers? Not here to lick the jackboots yet and tell us why the "police are on our side?"

44 posted on 04/25/2007 11:52:45 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government)
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To: All

There’s a new sheriff in town; his name is Ron Dellums, mayor, and a proud communist all of his professional life. After a 22-year run in the House of Reps, during which he was consistently voted the most ineffectual member of Congress, he brings his vision of “community policing” to Oakland. This looks like the first test for the seriously aging pinko to show whose side he favors. But I don’t hold out much hope for the people of Oakland. When Oakland-bred former drug kingpin Felix Mitchell was whacked in Federal prison, the leader of his endless funeral cortege in Oakland was...yep, Ron.


45 posted on 04/25/2007 12:04:00 PM PDT by DPMD (dpmd)
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To: CCCnative
The rabble rouser, John Gibson, might have bothered to mention that the police ALSO said the owner was within his rights; and, more importantly, that the DA said it was justified, and NO CHARGES would be filed.

This does no excuse Officer Krupke's Holmgren's assinine statements.

46 posted on 04/25/2007 12:12:39 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: CCCnative

You can’t defend yourself in today’s society. People who can defend themselves aren’t dependent on government. That lack of dependency is the cardinal sin to libs.


47 posted on 04/25/2007 12:14:03 PM PDT by TBP
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To: CCCnative
Holmgren,here is an idea, oh thou great worthless cop, you be a good report taker and a good witness. Had Holmgren’s family been the target, he would shoot to kill and laugh between photo ops.
48 posted on 04/25/2007 12:18:15 PM PDT by healy61
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To: CCCnative

So, if I came up to the rapper and stuck a gun in his neck, I would have been OK. He or his boys wouldn’t have killed me with their guns.


49 posted on 04/25/2007 12:29:50 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: wideawake

Probably a few “motorists” hold up stores, too.


50 posted on 04/25/2007 12:33:02 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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