Widow of Slain Christian: 'Forgive Them'

worldnetdaily.com ^ | April 28, 2007 | Bob Unruh

[Alouette]

The time of forgiveness is 60 seconds before the execution.

Did Jesus really mean that people who commit crimes should never be punished?

[Recovering Hermit]

Rage and hate WILL KILL YOU, however slowly, every time.

Well, the rage and hate of muslims will definitely kill us all if we don't confront the threat with extreme malice.

I'm not going to turn any cheek to those who take pleasure in sawing heads off, and torturing and killing children.

They are the epitome of evil.

They must be completely and utterly destroyed.

[Lurker]

You are mixing up reconciliation with forgiveness.

So Jesus was confused when he said "if they repent.."?

Is that what you're saying?

L

[StolarStorm]

<>

I'm sure the 7 year old boy will really appeciate his fathers defense of him. Disgusting. Horrific. This kind of pathetic excuse for a pastor has no business being an example to anyone. Sure, forgive the molestor after you hang him. Fine. But to hug him? Christ would even call this guy an idiot and a show boater.

[semaj]

"So Jesus was confused when he said "if they repent.."? Is that what you're saying?

No that's what you're saying. Before reading the text again, ask God to allow you to receive the Truth in the Spirit that it was intended to be understood.

The government does not wield the sword in vain, and exists to punish evil-doers. "Vengeance is mine", says the Lord. I understand the rage that is felt when we read atrocities like this being perpetrated against Christians by muslims. Our natural instinct is to seek the destruction of these evil-doers, and rightly so. Followers of Christ thirst for justice, but it will not come by means of our human efforts.

The hatred we carry for our enemies will eventually weigh us down. Better to let God deal with them in His own fashion, (governments). This does not suggest that we should be pacifists, as some might conclude when Christians profess to forgive their trespassers. On the contrary, we are also instructed throughout the Bible, that the strong are to protect the weak, the widow, and the orphan, also that one who does not provide for the (safety, housing, clothing, food, etc..) is worse than an infidel.

Peace.

[Lurker]

No that's what you're saying

I didn't say it. Jesus did.

ask God to allow you to receive the Truth in the Spirit that it was intended to be understood.

Seems to me he made it plain enough for anyone who isn't a theologin to understand.

Followers of Christ thirst for justice, but it will not come by means of our human efforts.

Then why bother with government at all? Why not just wait around for God to do it for us?

Better to let God deal with them in His own fashion, (governments).

Well which is it man? Is the government God? You contradict yourself.

This does not suggest that we should be pacifists,

Then just what the hell do you mean? If we aren't allowed to punish people ourselves (individually) why is it any more holy if we do it in large groups (governments)? Is it number that make the difference? If so, how many? 10? 20? 1,000? 10,000? Where's the line?

Peace.

We'll have that when our enemies are dead.

L

[boonboon]

L, You said:
"If" is a conditional word. "If" this happens, then that happens. "If" this doesn't happen, then that doesn't happen.

Your last statement is logically wrong. It is your assumption. There isn't a else clause to the if.

The verse did say:
If repentance then forgiveness
but it is wrong to conclude:
If no repentance then no forgiveness
This is a logical/inferrence mistake.

Cause God's logic and principle is:
If no repentence then forgiveness
As can be seen in Mark and many other scriptures. Our forgiveness is based on the context that Christ has first forgiven us. (Colossians 3:13)

[semaj]

I didn't say it. Jesus did.

Here is what Jesus said about the matter:

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee;

Matthew 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

The word used for brother in this case refers to a literal familial relationship or close associate.

Seems to me he made it plain enough for anyone who isn't a theologin to understand.

True, the Word is made plain so that you or I do not have to attend seminary to understand it.

Then why bother with government at all? Why not just wait around for God to do it for us?

Romans 13:3 states: For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Well which is it man? Is the government God? You contradict yourself.

1 Titus 5:8 But if any provide not for, his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

I would infer from the above that provision for one's household would also include physical safety. Other scripture from the Old Testament would back this up including:

Psalm 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

and this...

Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

God exhorts His followers to be defenders of strangers, widows, and orphans. How much more our own families and friends?

Then just what the hell do you mean? If we aren't allowed to punish people ourselves (individually) why is it any more holy if we do it in large groups (governments)? Is it number that make the difference? If so, how many? 10? 20? 1,000? 10,000? Where's the line?

I would refer you again to Romans 13:3 and Romans 13:4 which spells out the role of government.

We'll have that when our enemies are dead.

As a Christian I am not called on to destroy God's enemies. My job is to declare the Gospel, not just to my friends but to my enemies as well...I'll leave you with this:

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Matthew 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

[Scotsman will be Free]

Whatever.