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In a shoot-out, the feds always win
Huntsville Times (Alabama) ^ | 5/2/07 | David Prather

Posted on 05/03/2007 9:28:22 AM PDT by kiriath_jearim

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To: kiriath_jearim
David Prather needs to read this:

What good can a handgun do against an Army? Thread II

RIP harpseal...

61 posted on 05/03/2007 10:30:11 AM PDT by in the Arena
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To: Myrddin

You said — “The government only wins when the rules of engagement are essentially a no holds barred, all out attack.”

Oh, as a side note here — figure that the liberals will *certainly* engage in a “no-holds barred”, all-out attack here against its own citizens — for sure. But, they definitely do not want to do that with those poor Islamic terrorists, for fear they would alienate them even more..., those “poor souls”...

Yeah, right!


62 posted on 05/03/2007 10:31:57 AM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: kiriath_jearim
That's a nice, John Wayne-type view of the world. But it's wrong. It's not just debatably wrong. It's factually wrong.

It is 100% correct. You are wrong, sir.

And the reason it is wrong is this: The government has and will always have more firepower than you, you and your neighbors, you and your like-minded friends or you and anybody you can conscript to your way of thinking. You simply can't arm yourself adequately against a government that is rotten and needs to be overturned.

Cowardice abounds in America today... but then again, plenty of colonists said we would never be able to defeat the British Crown, the greatest military power on earth (at the time).

Notes to foolish author:
1. You are assuming that only one person would take on a tyrannical government.
2. You are forgetting that the admitted reason that the Japanese did not invade US soil was that "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass". We don't need F-22 Raptors to defeat a tyrant. Twenty-seven million scoped rifles against whatever fraction of the two million military personnel might support the tyrant... that leaves the odds heavily in our favor, even before you factor in the military multipliers of morale, a lack of massed troops (raising the problems of "a missile for a camel tent" we currently experience in Iraq and Afghanistan), the moral high ground, and the weapons/equipment/training of those current and former military who would oppose such a tyrant.

But you apparently seem to think that those 27 million scoped rifles cannot be trusted, since no individual could oppose the government by himself.

63 posted on 05/03/2007 10:32:13 AM PDT by Teacher317 (Are you familiar with the writings of Shan Yu?)
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To: wintertime
Legitimate governments do not leave their sovereign borders wide open to millions who enter illegally, where the ballot box is left wide open to be compromised and undermined.

And where do we find the most illegal voting? Yep! In Marxist ( oops! “Democrat”) districts.

Regardless of where they may or may not be voting, considering how close many elections are, the potential to change the direction of this country is very real. In addition, to believe they are only voting in democratic districts is naive at best.

64 posted on 05/03/2007 10:36:55 AM PDT by dragnet2
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To: kiriath_jearim
Point #1: Keeping the Government in check is EXACTY what the founders intended by calling out the Right to Keep and Bear Arms as being off limits to the Feds.
Point #2: Yes, in the short term, the feds can usually muster more firepower that any group of individual citizens; HOWEVER, the point is not individual "shootouts", but more along the lines of just being too costly of an endeavor for the Feds.
Point #3: Of course the ballot box is the preferred place to correct government excess; however, there has in the past (King George) come a time when that was not the case.
Point #4: Whoever wrote this have never read any of the founding documents.
65 posted on 05/03/2007 10:43:16 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: N3WBI3
"Were the Vietnamese better armed than us?"

No, but the North Vietnamese were better armed than the South Vietnamese that they actually defeated. The Soviet Union and China kept on supplying the north. We didn't keep on supplying the south.

66 posted on 05/03/2007 10:44:56 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: Jaxter; CholeraJoe
A DD-214 and 32 years of civilian life have done nothing to relieve me from that oath.
I swore my oath 33 years ago last October
I received my DD-214 24 years ago last December.
I've never been relieved of that oath - nor do I wish to be.
I'll be among the millions standing with you.
67 posted on 05/03/2007 10:52:02 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: stompk
Look at the Viet Cong for proof.

While the author is indeed foolish to discount guerilla tactics, citing the VC as proof is weak. The VC were destroyed by the end of 1968.

A better example would be the IRA.

68 posted on 05/03/2007 10:54:42 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: mutley

And he brings no gum gum


69 posted on 05/03/2007 11:03:29 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak....)
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To: N3WBI3

LOL! Funny movie.


70 posted on 05/03/2007 11:04:32 AM PDT by mutley
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To: kiriath_jearim

If this were true, we would be winning in Iraq.


71 posted on 05/03/2007 11:06:55 AM PDT by FightThePower! (Fight the powers that be!)
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To: Eagle Eye
I knew a 2LT USANG MP who said he would.

Did you at least punch him in the mouth when he said it?

72 posted on 05/03/2007 11:09:09 AM PDT by Hazcat (Live to party, work to afford it.)
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To: nativesoutherner

All military members swear that Oath, not just officers.


73 posted on 05/03/2007 11:11:02 AM PDT by Hazcat (Live to party, work to afford it.)
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To: kiriath_jearim
From the article: "So let's take that argument off the table. I don't presume to say that by doing so we will be able to reach a consensus or a compromise or whatever about how we should or shouldn't control firearms in modern society.
I'm just saying that shooting it out with the government is like the exhibition team versus the Harlem Globetrotters as far as who is going to win. "

The author's approach is to concede defeat and permit the battle to be even more one-sided by further infringing our Second Amendment rights.

The author's grasp of history seems to exclude the fact that the cannon used to expel the Royal Navy from occupied Boston were taken by force from the government at Fort Ticonderoga.

The Second Amendment is supposed to eliminate the need to make stealing weapons the first priority of securing a free state. Without the infringements imposed already, the battle would not be nearly so one-sided.

74 posted on 05/03/2007 11:16:08 AM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: Eagle Eye
Eagle Eye said: "I knew a 2LT USANG MP who said he would."

I would have smiled knowingly and told him, "Sir, I will be right behind you when the fighting starts."

I didn't invent the term "fragging", but I know what it means.

75 posted on 05/03/2007 11:20:53 AM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: beltfed308
At Waco after killing so many children the ATF ran their flag up the pole in celebration of such a "victory" also.

Further celebrated in their kiddies art contest for "What my daddy does at work". Here's a "Winning Entry" from "Dixon - Age 6"


76 posted on 05/03/2007 11:30:32 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: kiriath_jearim
Tell it to the Minutemen and other Militiamen at Lexington and Concord, April 19, 1775. It was the government who they resisted, with the best military weapons of the day, and a few weapons in some ways better than the local government forces had (rifles!). The people who wrote and ratified the second amendment were keenly aware of that, as the author apparently is not.

It was *cannon*, along with other stores and supplies that the "Government" forces were out to confiscate that fateful day. For the most part, they didn't get them, except the musket balls they got, the hard way.

77 posted on 05/03/2007 11:30:52 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Eagle Eye
I knew a 2LT USANG MP who said he would.

I knew a LT in a major metro area Sherrif's department who said he, nor any of his men that he knew of, would not.

78 posted on 05/03/2007 11:34:22 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: JWinNC
Does 1776 ring a bell with this chap?

Actually April 19, 1775 is a more analogous situation. That was English Colonists resisting the English Government. By July of '76 they no longer considered themselves Englishmen, but rather Americans.

79 posted on 05/03/2007 11:38:19 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: kiriath_jearim

“And the reason it is wrong is this: The government has and will always have more firepower than you, you and your neighbors, you and your like-minded friends or you and anybody you can conscript to your way of thinking. “

Demonstrably false. It requires the total belief there can’t be a ‘general uprising’ of ‘we the people’.

The fact is our Constitution is constructed too allow for that very eventuality if the situation warranted it.

That the author would even suggest this is exactly why we have the second amendment, in case people with his mindset ever gain political power.


80 posted on 05/03/2007 11:38:53 AM PDT by Badeye (Hiding the kooks in the biker bar won't help, Sally)
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