Skip to comments.Racial preferences in the dating world
Posted on 05/11/2007 9:18:14 PM PDT by teldon30
One of the more delicate areas I dealt with while running a dating service for more than two decades was the issue of race, and more specifically racial stereotyping by prospective members.
Stereotyping in itself is a volatile issue, and at some point during intake interviews, I often repeated the phrase While there is some truth to all stereotypes, there are certainly many exceptions to every single one.
However, when one is dealing with a sample of more than 20,000 single, divorced, and widowed men and women, I feel confident and comfortable making certain statements in a column titled The Truth about Dating.
Yet I was still hesitant to write this column, until a reader sent me an article from The New York Times, in which the author, John Tierney, published a story about racial preferences in the dating world.
Moreover, the article cited a study titled Racial Preferences in Dating that documented the preferences of more than 400 participants in speed dating sessions at Columbia University. A quick reading of both the Times article and the Columbia study seemed to support my own anecdotal findings.
(Unfortunately while reading the Columbia study I was overcome by the academic verbiage that authors of such studies feel compelled to use. Do they teach Boring Writing 101 at Ivy League institutions of higher learning? I found it impossible to read more than a few pages without getting a headache. Here is a sample sentence: Rates of inter-racial marriages thus capture both preferences and socio-geographic segregation. Huh?)
Anyway, here is what I found in 23 years of interviewing singles, and I will attempt to communicate in my best non-academic language. When we interviewed prospective members, we always asked what their preferences were in terms of meeting people of different races.
Overall, women of most races preferred to meet men of their own race. Most Caucasian women wanted only to meet Caucasian men, the exceptions being women who were more educated and well-traveled, who considered themselves somewhat worldly.
Of all the races, African-American women were the most insistent about wanting to meet only African-American men. But most of those women excluded black men who had recently moved to New England from Africa or the Caribbean.
The one major exception to the finding that women wanted to meet men of their own race was Asian women, a vast majority of whom stated that they strongly preferred meeting non-Asian men.
The primary explanation offered by most Asian women was that they wanted to be matched with tall men, and they insisted that practically all of the Asian men they knew were short. But when I would ask if they would be willing to meet an Asian man if he were tall, most would simply shake their head and say they would rather not.
And what about Indian women? To be honest the sample of Indian women who joined my dating service more than 23 years was too small to determine any general statements about them.
As for men, overall they were far more open to meeting women of other races. In fact, and I find this especially interesting, the race of women most in demand were, you guessed it, Asian women. Therefore, almost all of the Asian women in my dating service had a very high Dating Quotient.
When I asked men to explain their preferences for Asian women, many shrugged and admitted they were just extremely attracted to them. But I also believe that many of these men, consciously or subconsciously, wanted to meet women who fit the stereotype of the submissive Geisha girl, whose primary purpose is to entertain and please men.
Interestingly enough, though, most of the Asian women we interviewed could not have had personalities more opposite than that passive stereotype. Many had Ph.Ds., M.D.s, or law degrees, and were extremely assertive. (Especially when I tried in vain to persuade them to consider meeting Asian men!)
Unfortunately for African-American women, most of the African-American men who joined stated a strong preference for meeting either white or Asian women. Many expressed the identical view, I dont have to join a dating service to meet women of my own race.
The two groups of men who were the most difficult to match (and therefore had the lowest DQ) were Asian men and Indian men. Like African men, this was especially true of Asian and Indian men who had grown up overseas and relocated to New England, usually to pursue careers either in computer science or medicine. In a few cases I could persuade women to meet men of different races, IF the men were totally Americanized.
Of course Asian men were difficult to match because, as I previously stated, the one group of women who did not want to meet men of their own race was Asian women.
As for Indian men, they were the hardest people to match of any group of men or women of any race. And, with so many Indian men moving into the Boston area for jobs in high tech, rarely a week passed without several inquiries from men from India or Pakistan.
One reason they were difficult to match is that only a handful of Indian women joined over the decades, compared to hundreds of Indian or Pakistani men. But another is that many women, even the self-described worldly ones, expressed the stereotypical belief that Indian men had antiquated views of women.
To some extent, these women were correct. For example, of all the men I spoke with who wanted to meet women much younger than themselves, the largest group was, in fact, Indian men. Many told me that it was quite common back home for men to date and marry women at least a decade younger than themselves. And they wondered why they could not do the same here which further lowered their DQ.
So that is the story from my own anecdotal experiences. Again, I am sure there are exceptions to every statement I made in this column. On the other hand, if you want scientific proof of what I am stating, just Google and download a copy of Columbia Universitys Racial Preferences in Dating study.
But I suggest that if you do, make sure you have a bottle of aspirin nearby.
Yes..I chat with many Philippino girls every day, and I almost get the impression that there are ZERO men there.
Asian girls are the last ones on earth to still be loving and not with an attitude. While I am over 50, I find 20 year old girls that would have me in a heartbeat. Here in Europe, even 45 year old women will not give me the time of day. In the US, forget it. I have no desire to even meet an American woman anymore.
Of course, most of the Asian girls are as poor as church mice and look for a new life, but most are very loving and devoted to their man, be he rich or poor.
As many FReepers know, my wife is of African heritage. We've been together now for over 22 years. Guess there's always that one data point in all statistics...
"Ma'am, I will never be as loose as you..."
The perfect insult on soooooo many levels...
Because the male would insist the household to follow the traditional Asian view of women?
I don’t think he means that.
Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
I believe the direct cause is the feminization of men -- which turns the hell off of women.
The ironic thing is that this is WHAT the women wanted in the first place.
Which leads to the direct conclusion that most women don't know what they want and us poor men are more confused then ever...
Romantic love is simply not part of the Indian tradition. ... India has done a much better job of preserving its age-old traditions. Which is why things like arranged marriages continue to be a fact of Indian life.
Arranged marriages seem to 'work' better than 'love' marriages.
I have a theory about this:
In traditional culture, premarital sex was very rare and heavily frowned upon. Therefore it was very probable that a person's first sexual encounter was with their new spouse.
Now, a well known psychological phenomena kicks in: imprinting. Both partners imprint on each other as sexual partners. The first and only partners they have known. Throw in the Kama Sutra and drive that imprinting home with a couple hundred positions and techniques, and the bond is very strong!
Effective divorce rate: Near zero.
Contrast that with our 'modern' non-traditional 'values' boink, anything anywhere, anytime any in any number. The imprinting is hyper blurred. Small wonder an American can't settle down to one partner.
Effective divorce rate: 2/3rds...
I've found one I really like, we hang out a lot.
Unfortunately, she's gay. *sigh*
More fortunately there's a FReeperette, I'm quite interested in. She just might be the one.
Unfortunately, she's thousands of miles away. *sigh*.
sitch is my life...
There’s truth to that.
Dude! I KNOW what wimin want...
I see a trend now of American women going after UK men. Poor bastards.
Some are. Some are butt uggggggly.
Filipinos don't seem to select for superficial looks.
A (white) friend of mine tried having black girlfriends a couple of times. Not for long. "Big bucket of crazy" was a good description
“I see a trend now of American women going after UK men. Poor bastards.:
Good grief..American women have become more stupid then even
I see many Brits here in Bratislava and they are the pits.
Never be here on a weekend when groups of Brits come here for stag party weekends.
They parade through the old town laughing like Hyenas, destroy monuments, puke on the streets, you name it...
Many mature Brits that I know are pompous asses.
Like any nationality, there are some good ones that I know.
Unfortunately, she's gay. *sigh*
She's bi, or she wouldn't hang out with you. There's no such thing as a "lesbian". Keep at it, you might have found a gem.
I’m with you. Although I adore my (German/Scottish, blonde, blue-eyed, voluptuous, almost 6’ tall) wife, and have no desire for anyone else as long as she is alive, if I were to become a sudden widower (God forbid) it would be Japanese women or Latinas all the way. Both have a sweet, lovely appearance and demeanor wrapped around a core of solid steel. Our exchange daughter Yuki (17 now, back in Japan and in college) is sweet, softspoken, fashionable, and well-mannered to a fault, but woe betide any man who tries to put one over on her or mistreat one of her loved ones! Fiesty doesn’t even begin to describe it! She once told my wife that she only likes American boys, because they are “gentlemen”. (The guy lucky enough to capture her heart had better be — because if he isn’t, when she gets through with him, it’s my turn!) We’re hoping that she comes back to America to get married after college.
As for Latinas: no woman knows how to take care of a man than a Latin lady. And most of them are beautiful and dress like models to boot.
It’s all academic to me — as I said, I’m perfectly happy the way I am — but in my experience American women tend to be whiny golddiggers or ball-busting manhaters or spoiled Daddy’s Little Princesses or just plain nuts. (And most men in America are similarly screwed up.) It’s no wonder American men are seeking fresher fields abroad.
We're friends. We have similar tastes, politics, senses of humor, etc. I don't think I'd want to ruin that but having a 'relationship', nor do I think she'd go for it.
Still, you're right. I could do a LOT worse. (Come to think of it I have done a lot worse!)
Trust me, she’s in denial. Maybe she had a bad experience with men once, and just needs you to lead her back to a more balanced perspective. Don’t give up. ;)
Yeah. Parts of her life were way screwed up.
Welcome to the human race...
Why White Men Prefer Asian Women
The View From A Sushi Bar
Some excellent observations.
My own experience in Asia has led me to understand dating dynamics in Asian cultures are very nearly what American dating dynamics were in the late 1800’s.
Back just after the industrial revolution. Men worked. Women were quite feminine, and not embarrassed to be desired for being so. Marriage meant a real commitment.
You could walk on the streets of major American cities at night, without risk of urban gang drive-by shootings or random violent psychos.
Liberalism has consciously torn down all those old values.
Women think they should be ashamed of being beautiful, and of being desired. Both sexes think marriage is an arrangement, which can simply be walked away from if it doesn’t work out — so many don’t really do what is necessary to make it work out.
Welfare has built a social structure which reinforces anti-family behaviors.
Asia is still early in the industrial curve.
They have not allowed their societies to be rotted by counter-productive social experimentation, so most still adhere strongly to the most important social tenets.
Especially marriage and family.
Asian women are far from submissive, but most are fundamentally monogamous and traditional about commitment.
Finally, all Asians (men and women) take care of themselves much more carefully than most westerners.
Morning exercise. Holistic medicines. Herbs. Diets rich in vegetables and steamed rice. Rich histories of culinary traditions.
American society has much positive. But family values seem to have become a shrinking outpost of political identity. Family values in Asia, mean mainstream tradition.
Family values in America has come to mean almost exclusively, religious values.
Not that religious values are unimportant, but they’re not what is most important about family. Family values are important as a stand-alone pillar of a civil society.
America really needs to get back to valuing honesty, integrity and committment.
American women could do well to drive that dynamic. Instead of so fiercely working to be so much like American men.
Women are the ones honestly, who most efficiently could change American society back to traditional values. Because men will do what they can get away with.
Women allow men, to get away with far too much. Giving away what should be earned. Not realizing American feminism is profoundly devaluing American femininity itself.
Instead, too many seem almost fanatically determined to tear down those values they should be standing for.
With alarming success.
So much so, that the family is now almost a vanishing American institution. Driving our need for millions of illegal immigrants to work — simply to make up for the millions of American babies which are never born. Lives ended instead, at the end of a scalpel, in an abortion clinic.
Almost a million, every year.
Probably if American women do not take it upon themselves to rebuild our nation’s families, nobody will.
As they reshape America yet again.
“Black women are equally unpopular because men of all races find them unattractive.”
Speak for yourself. I find a lot of black women very attractive, but I never have found a black woman who didn’t insist she wanted only to date and marry a black man. The odds of finding a black woman and white man together are far slimmer than the odds of finding a white woman and a black man, and that’s not entirely because of the biases of black and white men.
LOL! Dude, you are sooooooo confused you don't even know you are confused...
or maybe not...
Yes, they are also quite nice. I had a girlfriend in Brazil and one in Barcelona.
They would be next to Asian women in the most desirable
Sorry, but I don’t think women are as obsessed with dingy size as you guys seem to think.
That's not my personal view. I find women of all races and ethnicities attractive. I am merely stating what seems to be the view, on average, of major segments of the male population. Not everyone feels that way. You and I are exceptions. But a majority of the male population finds black women the least attractive of all the races. It is what it is.
Statistics from mall walking. Lots of white girls with Black guys; the occasional Mexican girl with Black guy; almost no Black girls with white or Mexican guys.
This is simply an observation and not intended to be racist but typically Black features can be attractive on a guy, but not so attractive on a girl.
My mom was of the same”stick to your own kind and life will be easier”type that yours was.
Didn’t take her advice but I understood where she was coming from.
What she never understood was that”my own kind”sure didn’t treat me very KIND.When you are rejected as an outcast,you seek other outcasts to bond with.
Sure didn’t make life easier but it made it a lot more fun.
The scene is a locker room at work where many black males hang out and”chop it up”.One says to all in the circle,”Have you ever known an emotionally stable black woman?”
The room falls silent for fifteen seconds.Of course no one could name one,including white me.
Everyone has a good laugh,especially knowing that most likely in the adjoining women’s locker room,a bunch of the”sisters”are engaged in a black man bashing session.
I think you nailed it.
Hey now. My mom grew up in South Cotabato. The odd thing (well, for the Philippines) is that her family was Protestant, not Roman Catholic.
So, being a WASP, or at least pretending you are, makes you more "American"?
If your name was O'Flaherty and you fought and bled for the Union in the Irish Brigade, you had to be ashamed of your Irish heritage in other to be considered a "real American" like those Anglo-Saxon Protestants that had English ancestry and English surnames?
Should the memorial to the dead of the Irish Brigade that died for the Union at Gettysburg, dedicated on July 2, 1888, have been less "Irish" so that they would not be considered "some stupid a$$ hyphenated americans"?
Should Joe DiMaggio have changed his name to "Joe Harrington" and denied he was Italian in order to be considered more "American"?
Maybe your grandmother's shame at her Irish ancestry had to do with how Irish were viewed at the time by the WASPs in America.
The Irish were routinely caricatured in nationwide publications such as Harper's Weekly as ignorant, violent drunks with ape-like faces.
And don't even bring up how the WASPs saw how the Catholics were polluting the American Republic.
Maybe your great-great-grandfather was one of those gallant Union soldiers that proudly gave his life for America at Gettysburg under both Old Glory and the green battle flag of the Irish Brigade that honored their Irish heritage.
Maybe, yelling the Irish Brigade's battle cry of "faugh a ballagh" ("clear the way"), he distinguished himself at the Wheatfield at Gettysburg with the rest of the Irish Brigade in that battle that saved the United States of America making him as much of a "real American" as you can possibly be.
But, who knows? Since he was not a WASP celebrating his English ancestry, your grandmother thought he was therefore not a "real American" and denied he ever existed.
By denying him, she then "assimilated". Maybe she changed her name from "O'Flaherty" to a more "American" name like "Jones" or "Wilson".
And, in doing so, she lost her real American heritage.
Denying the heritage of your ancestors does not make you more "American". It only makes you unworthy of your ancestors.
“We’ll take the niggers and the chinks, but we won’t take the Irish!” - Blazing Saddles...
” No, they often come from bigoted parents.”
My stereotypes came about from experience, fortified by predictability.
Another quality of Asian women is that they generally age well. My friend is married to a Chinese woman in her 50’s but looks 30-ish
I understand what you are saying about men's not being as attracted to heavier facial features, but I wonder why the black women who came to this guy's service weren't interested in men of other races. Are they not attracted to other races physically? Do they not like some personality trait that they perceive in men of other races?
Over the long term, the cost of relocating is cheaper than settling for somebody who isn't the one. If there's chemistry there, get on a plane and visit. If the chemistry catches fire, get a refund on the return ticket.
My friend ended his relationship with his black girlfriend when, out of the blue, she told him "If you cheat on me, I'm going to stick a knife in you"
Women are less concerned about looks and more concerned about vibes.
Definitely. White women over 45 are lucky if they look good, even if they’ve tried.