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Benedict backs excommunication for pro-abortion pollies
Catholic News ^ | May 10, 2007 | Pope Benedict XVI

Posted on 05/16/2007 1:57:14 PM PDT by malibu2008

Edited on 05/16/2007 2:32:56 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Speaking to reporters on his way to Brazil, Pope Benedict has backed Mexican bishops who have threatened excommunication for parliamentarians who voted to legalise abortion in Mexico City.

The Age reports that the Pope was responding to a reporter's question whether he supported Mexican Church leaders threatening to excommunicate leftist parliamentarians who last month voted to legalise abortion in Mexico City.

"Yes, this excommunication was not an arbitrary one but is allowed by Canon (church) law which says that the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving communion, which is receiving the body of Christ," he said.

"They (Mexican Church leaders) did nothing new, surprising or arbitrary. They simply announced publicly what is contained in the law of the Church... which expresses our appreciation for life and that human individuality, human personality is present from the first moment (of life)".

Under Church law, someone who knowingly does or backs something which the Church considers a grave sin, such as abortion, inflicts what is known as "automatic excommunication" on themselves.

The Pope said parliamentarians who vote in favour of abortion have "doubts about the value of life and the beauty of life and even a doubt about the future".


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionrudy; cathholic; giuliani; mittmcpaul; prochoice; prolife; ronpaul; rudy; stoprudy2008
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To: Ben Mugged

Nice try. Rudy’s done neither. Cheers.


51 posted on 05/16/2007 2:47:02 PM PDT by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
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To: pgyanke
I thought Giuliani's professed position on abortion was (my paraphrase) "I personally do not support abortion but abortion is the rule of the land and I support the rule of law".

This seems to support Evangelium Vitae.

52 posted on 05/16/2007 2:53:56 PM PDT by Ben Mugged (Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.)
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To: Sun

>> “Shouldn’t you have posted this under the Religion topic?”

> No, this is an action topic.

No, this is a thread for radical Catholics.

> Please read the first sentence of my Post #13.

No, Giuliani’s orthodoxy is irrelevant to mainstream voters.


53 posted on 05/16/2007 3:00:42 PM PDT by cloud8
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To: malibu2008

I will believe this when I see it. The Catholic Church’s official position for years has been disfellowship/excommunication for those supporting abortion - yet I have seen ZERO cases where the church has followed through.


54 posted on 05/16/2007 3:02:58 PM PDT by TheBattman (I've got TWO QUESTIONS for you....)
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To: Ramius

“Now people are just makin’ stuff up.

We’ve had a pro-life President for seven years now. Abortion must be illegal now, huh? What? You mean it isn’t?

Why is this an issue that matters then?”


President Bush is president - not a king.

He picked two originalist for SCOTUS, and we just need one more.

Now about Giuliani:

I don’t trust him to pick pro-life, conservative judges, because presidents always at least TRY to pick a nominee that matches their ideology.

Even Rudy admitted this when he said:

“Presidents, going back to the beginning of the republic, generally appoint people on the Supreme Court that they believe agree with them.”

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163223,00.html
Republican Big-Wigs Support Pro-Abortion Event in NY
Pro-abortion Governor George Pataki and New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who also supports unrestricted abortion, are co-chairs of the 2000 Choice Award Presentation to be held on May 30 at the St. Regis Hotel in New York City. The event is sponsored by the Republican Pro-Choice Coalition, a group that is campaigning for the removal of the pro-life plank from the Republican National Platform. They will honor the late Senator John Chafee, a pro-abortion advocate who was one of four Republican Senators who voted against banning partial birth abortions. A guest speaker is Senator Lincoln Chafee, who shares the former Senator’s views and is running for the seat to which he was appointed after the death of his father.

http://www.rnclife.org/faxnotes/2000/may00/00-05-05.html

..........

He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing,” he responded.
Source: CNN.com, “Inside Politics” Dec 2, 1999
http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Rudy_Giuliani_Abortion.htm


55 posted on 05/16/2007 3:03:52 PM PDT by Sun (Vote for Duncan Hunter in the primaries. See you there.)
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To: cloud8

Oh, a Catholic bigot and a Rudybot, ‘nuf said.


56 posted on 05/16/2007 3:05:23 PM PDT by Sun (Vote for Duncan Hunter in the primaries. See you there.)
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To: Coleus; firebrand

ping


57 posted on 05/16/2007 3:12:51 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Antoninus
Uh, the Pope did say it, just not in so many words.

Well an excommunication takes so many words.

58 posted on 05/16/2007 3:20:45 PM PDT by bnelson44 (http://www.appealforcourage.org)
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To: DManA

You fooled me since you posted on a Rudy thread.

I find him to be a joke.

I need a laugh now and then too!

I would NEVER vote for someone like THAT.


59 posted on 05/16/2007 3:36:17 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: yoe

“So do the following: Ted Kennedy and John Kerry, probably other politicians. Mitt Romney, Bob Bennett and Orin Hatch...all pretty straight up Americans...really can’t say that for Kennedy or Kerry.”

“all pretty straight up Americans”

Thanks for the laugh!


60 posted on 05/16/2007 3:37:58 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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Rudy Giuliani's stance on (1) abortion and the sanctity of life is a slap in the face to GOP voters. But then tack on his being a (2) death penalty advocate and it makes you wonder just what flavor of christian or faith he might put on his resume. But then Rudy seals the deal with his (3) first marriage to a second cousin without first seeking a matrimonial dispensation - which is usually/always only allowed for exigent circumstances - such as exigency due to (1) above. Three strikes and your out Rudy. In the most favorable light to him it is only a disingenuous and insensitive insult to profess he is a catholic - maybe sacriligeous or something like that too, and a mockery of faith. It will of course be up to God to decide all that. We are only evaluating him for his suitability as a candidate for President of the United States - but in that evaluation of him that he asks for with our vote I just find it very disheartening that the former mayor is bordering on outright deception. There are people out tending to their livestock all day - never on the internet - or at countless other jobs - that will now vote for him because he's a catholic. At the very least it is a foul ball that should put him out of play. At the other extreme, I think some might want to pass out flyers on Sunday morning sidewalks that say Rudy Giuliani is NOT a catholic ! Voters should know.
61 posted on 05/16/2007 3:44:27 PM PDT by malibu2008
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To: SamuraiScot

As I learned once many years ago, never get into an argument with a Jesuit!


62 posted on 05/16/2007 4:05:42 PM PDT by ops33 (Retired USAF Senior Master Sergeant)
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To: bnelson44
Well an excommunication takes so many words.

No, it doesn't.

63 posted on 05/16/2007 6:28:02 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: TheBattman
I will believe this when I see it. The Catholic Church’s official position for years has been disfellowship/excommunication for those supporting abortion - yet I have seen ZERO cases where the church has followed through.

I'll believe it when I see it too. The Catholic Church always talks tough about abortion but doesn't do a blessed thing when the opportunity presents itself.

If the Pope is really in charge of the Church he would excommunicate every "Catholic" dem at every level of government, period.

Somehow I don't think that will happen.
64 posted on 05/16/2007 7:38:44 PM PDT by LightBeam (Support the Surge. Support Victory.)
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To: malibu2008; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; ...

>


65 posted on 05/16/2007 8:46:08 PM PDT by Coleus (Woe unto him that call evil good and good evil"-- Isaiah 5:20-21)
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To: bnelson44
Well an excommunication takes so many words.

Ever hear of latae sententiae? Look it up...
66 posted on 05/16/2007 8:46:10 PM PDT by Antoninus (P!ss off an environmentalist wacko . . . have more kids.)
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To: nmh

He’s not a practicing catholic and no practicing catholic would support his stand on abortion. We can vote for him but we can’t say he’s a practicing catholic because he isn’t. He’s a catholic in name only.


67 posted on 05/16/2007 8:50:39 PM PDT by Twink
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To: HaveHadEnough

Not speaking for the Catholic Church - I don’t support the death penalty and I’m Catholic. Pro life means Pro life all the time. As long as there’s life, there’s hope. I don’t support state/government endorsed murder, be it abortion or the death penalty. I have no problem with a parent killing the person who raped their kid or pther such instances.

It reminds me of the Terri Schiavo thing. I didn’t support the government getting involved in that, or the polictians on both sides who used this woman for their personal and political benefit- none of that helped Terri, not the parents or the husband or the media or the politiians. It should have never been something the public knew about. If the public was interested in the decisions I made when my parents were dying, I’m sure many would think of me as a murderer and many others would think of me as something of an angel. It was nobody’s business and because the public didn’t know, they couldn’t comment on it and because we kept it in the family, it was about the family. And some didn’t understand, how I could stop all outside/medical help so he and she could die in peace. One of my brothers even said at her funeral when asked what my mother died of, that she died of a morphine overdose, because according to him I gave her too much morphine. I would never want what I did or how I handled my parents last days to be public knowledge or considered public opinion or that the public had any say in what I did for my parents. I don’t know how the Terri Shiavo thing happened or why so many were interested. I’m happy that whatever goes on in my family isn’t open to discussion to complete strangers or the government.

Your question regarding Catholics who advocate the death penalty can’t be really Catholic is something I don’t know. I do know anyone who supports abortion/choice isn’t following the teachings of the catholic church. Personally, I think that applies to the death penalty. But I’m also all about hanging or killing those who are treasonous, I wouldn’t have a problem with that at all so I’m not a very good Catholic in that sense. I also don’t have a problem with a parent dealing with a pervert who violated their kid. I just don’t agree with the State or the government having that kind of power.


68 posted on 05/16/2007 9:14:56 PM PDT by Twink
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To: Twink
Your question regarding Catholics who advocate the death penalty can’t be really Catholic is something I don’t know. I do know anyone who supports abortion/choice isn’t following the teachings of the catholic church. Personally, I think that applies to the death penalty.

When B16 was pre-16, he explained that one could be in favor of the death penalty, among other things, and still be in good standing. Abortion and euthanasia are not on that list. So, your personal opinion on this matter doesn't match that of the Church.

69 posted on 05/16/2007 10:49:13 PM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: Patriotic1

My personal opinion on anything should never be considered the opinion of the Church or the official position of the church.

The church is pro life all the time. So am I. The church tends to be on the side of illegal aliens, an anything goes immigration policy. I am not.

I don’t really know who is in good standing. I struggle daily with my own standing.

I know my Church looks down on the politicians supporting abortion and I wish they’d carry it further.

I know my Church is anti- death penalty. So am I and I wasn’t until recently.

My personal opinion on a lot of things doesn’t match the church. I was a teenager. A wild teenager. But not too wild. I’ve had a bunch of kids and I’m not having anymore. For sure. I’m sure the teachings aren’t exactly the same as I live by. However, the teachings are right and I’m not not following all of them. The church is right and most of us aren’t adhering to those teachings. I adhere to most of them, and agree with the stand but I don’t agree with the Church’s teaching on illegal immigrants. That doesn’t make me right at all. I wish I could be everything the Church teaches but I’m not.


70 posted on 05/16/2007 11:12:39 PM PDT by Twink
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To: Ben Mugged
His stated position is that Roe vs Wade is good law and taxpayer funds should be used to provide abortions for those who can't afford them. He is a contributor and headline speaker for Planned Parenthood and NARAL and, frankly, I no longer care what he states.
71 posted on 05/17/2007 6:50:15 AM PDT by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
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To: HaveHadEnough

Catholics who advocate that the death penalty can be a just punishment are not really Catholic?


I am against the death penalty but the Church is not implicitly against the death penalty the Liberal homosexuals working for the Bishops like to Pretend it is...a Vote by Liberal leaning bishops Conference


72 posted on 05/19/2007 5:42:31 AM PDT by philly-d-kidder (LIVE From K-U-W-A-I-T..............................SJU Hawk class of '76)
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To: philly-d-kidder
I am against the death penalty but the Church is not implicitly against the death penalty the Liberal homosexuals working for the Bishops like to Pretend it is...a Vote by Liberal leaning bishops Conference.

So, you agree with the liberal leaning bishops conference?
73 posted on 05/21/2007 6:19:29 AM PDT by HaveHadEnough
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To: HaveHadEnough

No I am 100% Orthodox Catholic Non Catholics call me the UBER Catholic... I have had my own run ins with Bishops standing up for Pro Life.... My Parish Pastor wouldn’t speak to me for two years!...


74 posted on 05/22/2007 3:28:40 AM PDT by philly-d-kidder (In the theatre..in Kuwait!)
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