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'Kitchen science' reveals dinosaurs died in agony
sfgate.com ^ | June 6, 2007 | David Perlman, Chronicle Science Editor

Posted on 06/06/2007 9:45:09 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp

A dinosaur mystery that puzzled paleontologists for nearly a century has been solved by a pound of beef tendons from a butcher, a collection of dead hawks and a brace of frozen quail, two investigative scientists in Berkeley and Idaho say.

The puzzle: Why were fossils of those ancient creatures so often discovered buried with their heads, necks and feet arched bizarrely backward into a distorted posture unlike anything seen alive?

The answer: Kevin Padian, a noted dinosaur expert and curator of the Museum of Paleontology at UC Berkeley, and Cynthia Marshall Faux, a veterinarian and paleontologist at the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, Mont., say the beasts were suffering in violent death throes as they perished -- asphyxiated by volcanic gases or ash falls, poisoned by unknown toxins or drowned in swamps or deepwater lakes.

It was knowledge of animals in veterinary clinics plus a few "kitchen science" experiments that led to this conclusion, say the researchers, and it should provide a new understanding of the dinosaurs' environments millions of years ago. It also adds support for the once-controversial claim that the ancient dinosaurs were all warm-blooded just as modern birds are, and unlike the ancestral crocodiles and lizards whose blood still runs cold today.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; crevo; dinosaurs; godsgravesglyphs; greatdying; kevinpadian; paleontology
SunkenCiv and Blam, here's one for your ping lists.
1 posted on 06/06/2007 9:45:10 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: SunkenCiv; blam

here you go


2 posted on 06/06/2007 9:46:57 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
heads, necks and feet arched bizarrely backward into a distorted posture

My Mom always said: "It's probably just gas".

3 posted on 06/06/2007 9:49:58 PM PDT by RedQuill
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

I can’t help but wonder if they would be so condescending as to describe this as ‘kitchen science’ if this fundamental work had been done by a man.


4 posted on 06/06/2007 9:52:40 PM PDT by null and void ("Wherever liberty has sprouted around the world, we find American blood at its roots.")
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

...almost as if there was a catastrophic flood...or something...


5 posted on 06/06/2007 9:53:23 PM PDT by El Cid (Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon HIM while HE is near)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Hmmm, what possible could have caused drowning, and/or ash from volcanoes killing so many fossils?


6 posted on 06/06/2007 9:54:13 PM PDT by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. Prov. 25:26)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Ping

Found this rather interesting.


7 posted on 06/06/2007 9:55:11 PM PDT by uptoolate (If it sounds absurd, 51% chance it was sarcasm.)
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To: El Cid
"...almost as if there was a catastrophic flood...or something..."

It was the Chicxulub Impact 65 million years ago.

8 posted on 06/06/2007 9:58:08 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
BTW, do you know of any dinosaur fossils at exactly the same level as the K-T iridium clay layer?
9 posted on 06/06/2007 10:02:45 PM PDT by null and void ("Wherever liberty has sprouted around the world, we find American blood at its roots.")
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Nature is cruel? Duh.

And dooooo-gooders would rather let deer die of starvation and disease due to overpopulating their range, rather than let hunters cull the herd.

Ever see that video of the killer whale tossing the seal up in the air, like a cat playing with a mouse?

Never mind this. It's ok if Nature is far more cruel than humans. Nature, Good. Humans, BAD.

10 posted on 06/06/2007 10:03:14 PM PDT by FlyVet
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

What ever happened to rigor mortis? Seems like a perfectly acceptable constuct to me.


12 posted on 06/06/2007 10:29:00 PM PDT by Reverend Bob (Read my lips, no more Pawlenty.)
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To: null and void

They would. The term describes experiments not done in a lab with formal funding. It’s been in use for years.


13 posted on 06/06/2007 10:52:01 PM PDT by sig226 (Where did my tag line go?)
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To: sig226

OK.


14 posted on 06/06/2007 10:55:39 PM PDT by null and void ("Wherever liberty has sprouted around the world, we find American blood at its roots.")
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

My gosh! Scientists still haven’t even figured out if dinosaurs were cold-blooded or warm-blooded, and yet they tell us about all of these other details that they supposedly know. What other basic information don’t they know, and why should I trust them?


15 posted on 06/06/2007 11:18:31 PM PDT by DeweyCA
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To: vpintheak

Okay, this is just a guess, but maybe they got too close to Al Gore?


16 posted on 06/07/2007 3:42:05 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Some of us like to think of mania as a lifestyle choice....)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

wouldn’t it be stupid to hypothesize that every human skeleton dug up had died at the same time , or even within the the same decade or century? If dinosaurs supposedly were around for 10’s of millions of years, then many, many more individuals would have died one by one over that time than would have died in some “final cataclysm.”


17 posted on 06/07/2007 4:00:16 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Thanks my_pointy_head_is_sharp!

Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

18 posted on 06/07/2007 7:40:17 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp; 75thOVI; AFPhys; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aristotleman; ...
Thanks again, MPHIS.
 
Catastrophism
 
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·

19 posted on 06/07/2007 7:41:17 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
"asphyxiated by volcanic gases or ash falls, poisoned by unknown toxins or drowned in swamps or deepwater lakes."

Or drowned in a BIG flood.

20 posted on 06/07/2007 7:43:57 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Fred Nerks

EiU, p 222.


21 posted on 06/07/2007 8:20:48 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

Dying hurts. Who knew?


22 posted on 06/07/2007 8:27:52 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (I'm Fred, White and Blue!)
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To: El Cid

My very thought.


23 posted on 06/07/2007 8:30:18 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: gusopol3
The problem with that idea is that well-preserved human remains were purposely buried; many (if not most) fossils of extinct forms are found in death assemblages, such as the 10000 dino-critters discovered in Montana by Jack Horner et al.
Early Volcano Victims Discovered
BBC News
Monday, May 3, 1999
Whole communities of ape-like creatures may have been killed in East Africa 18 million years ago by the once active volcano Kisingiri. Proconsul lived in a semi-arid environment close to the mountain and the research suggests they may have been caught by a pyroclastic flow. The abundance of the hominoid fossils may represent "death assemblages" - whole populations wiped out simultaneously by "glowing cloud" eruptions. The fossils of the Rusinga Formation form a crucial link between the early primates of the forest habitats, and human forerunners of the more open-country habitat, who lived in drier conditions than had been supposed, on a landscape that experienced repeated volcanic eruption.

24 posted on 06/07/2007 8:56:33 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

Dinosaur life was brutish and short.


25 posted on 06/07/2007 12:54:59 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Democrat Happens!)
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To: SunkenCiv
EiU p 223:

When, therefore, the earth, covered with mud from the recent flood, became heated up by the hot and genial rays of the sun, she brought forth innumerable forms of life, in part of ancient shapes, and in part creatures new and strange.

-OVID, Metamorphoses

EiU p 19

The same platform in Orkney as at Cromarty is strewed thick with remains, which exhibit unequivocally the marks of violent death. The figures are contorted, contracted, curved; the tail in many instances is bent around to the head; the spines stick out; the fins are spread to the full, as in fish that die in convulsions...

The Fossil Record:

Another very startling finding that demonstrates the sudden/catastrophic burial of very large creatures is a 1971 finding in Southern Mongolia of a perfectly articulated Protoceratops and a Velociraptor frozen in a life and death struggle with each other. Obviously these two creatures were buried suddenly by a huge catastrophe of magnificent proportions. The dinosaurs didn’t even have time to fall over.

26 posted on 06/07/2007 3:18:48 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: SunkenCiv

some sort of preferential preservation like Pompeii( or is it Herculaneum..sorry to offend you on your turf). Thanks for taking the time to inform.


27 posted on 06/07/2007 4:05:50 PM PDT by gusopol3
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To: vpintheak; gobucks; mikeus_maximus; JudyB1938; isaiah55version11_0; Elsie; LiteKeeper; AndrewC; ...


You have been pinged because of your interest regarding news, debate and editorials pertaining to the Creation vs. Evolution debate - from the young-earth creationist perspective.
To to get on or off this list (currently the premier list for creation/evolution news!), freep-mail me:
Add me / Remove me



Hmmm, what possible could have caused drowning, and/or ash from volcanoes killing so many fossils? - vpintheak
28 posted on 06/07/2007 9:36:54 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: DeweyCA
My gosh! Scientists still haven’t even figured out if dinosaurs were cold-blooded or warm-blooded, and yet they tell us about all of these other details that they supposedly know. What other basic information don’t they know, and why should I trust them?

It's called the human imagination. With Evolutionists (née Darwinists)imagination is an overwhelmingly powerful force able to link two completely unrelated fossils ( or a series of each).

29 posted on 06/07/2007 11:35:36 PM PDT by backslacker (Thou shall worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. --Luke 4:8b)
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To: SunkenCiv
Whoops...too late! Fossilized before he had a chance to eat his dinner...


30 posted on 06/08/2007 12:30:42 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: gusopol3

Yes, exactly.


31 posted on 06/08/2007 8:29:35 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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To: Fred Nerks

I saw that one in school. [rimshot!]


32 posted on 06/08/2007 8:30:21 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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To: Mike Darancette
Dinosaur life was brutish and short.

Thomas Hobbes was a paleontologist? :)

33 posted on 06/09/2007 3:12:25 PM PDT by Republican Party Reptile
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To: DaveLoneRanger; vpintheak
Hmmm, what possible could have caused drowning, and/or ash from volcanoes killing so many fossils?

This is a tremendous oversimplification.

Opisthotonic posturing is not diagnostic of a specific cause, but it is clinically observed in a variety of conditions that affect the central nervous system. These conditions can be broadly classified under the following categories: infectious (including bacterial, viral, fungal, parasitic and protozoal), congenital, and acquired conditions (including neoplasia), traumatic injury, toxic insults, and nutritional deficiencies (Swank 1940; Wyatt et al. 1975; Filippich and Cao 1993; Klein et al. 1994; Van der Lugt et al. 1994; Ondo and Delong 1996; Park et al. 2000; Palmer 2002; Austin et al. 2004; Olby et al. 2004). Opisthotonus is observed after hypoxic damage in a variety of conditions: in bacterial and viral meningitis, secondary to administration of certain drugs including some anesthetics, secondary to poisoning with strychnine, thiamine deficiency, edema of the brain, and cerebellar swelling or atrophy (Swank 1940; Sullivan 1970; Sukoff and Ragatz 1980; Saunders and Harris 1990; Ersahin et al. 1992; Filippich and Cao 1993; Klein et al. 1994; Palmer 2002; Olby et al. 2004).

Faux, C. M.; Padian, K. "The opisthonic posture of vertebrate skeletons: postmortem contraction or death throes?" Paleobiology 2007, 33, 201.

34 posted on 06/11/2007 11:49:32 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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