Penalty Mitigation in the Immigration Reform Bill [White House Spokesman Responds: Post #53]

Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2007 | philman_36

[philman_36]

This morning on Fox and Friends there was made mention that much stricter fines are in the immigration reform bill. While this is true many folks may not know about a few words that follow the language about the tougher fines. Those words make a travesty of any "fines" as they can be waved and the employer could walk away owing nothing in penalties.

Here are the words I've got a problem with...

(D) The Secretary is authorized to reduce or mitigate penalties imposed upon employers, based upon factors including, but not limited to, the employer's hiring volume, compliance history, good-faith implementation of a compliance program, participation in temporary worker program, and voluntary disclosure of violations of this subsection to the Secretary.

So while we're being told that "the penalties are tougher" we aren't being told that under some circumstances employers can face reduced or even no fine whatsoever.
At this point of time in our history America can't afford our officials not being completely truthful to us and not stating that the possibility exists for employers to potentially be let off the hook completely is simply unacceptable.

[ruination]

Why should anyone care what kind of employer fines this bill would impose? No one has shown the will to do actual, consistent enforcement. That's what matters - not what's in the law - cause what's already law is just fine.

These enforcement provisions are merely intended to reduce our opposition to the legalization/amnesty/path-to-citizenship/regularization. The White House, Ted Kennedy, et al. are holding enforcement, and the fence, hostage. You know this. The problem with their strategy is that we know very well that these hostage-takers have betrayed us many times in the past.

[ruination]

Why should anyone care what kind of employer fines this bill would impose? No one has shown the will to do actual, consistent enforcement. That's what matters - not what's in the law - cause what's already law is just fine.

These enforcement provisions are merely intended to reduce our opposition to the legalization/amnesty/path-to-citizenship/regularization. The White House, Ted Kennedy, et al. are holding enforcement, and the fence, hostage. You know this. The problem with their strategy is that we know very well that these hostage-takers have betrayed us many times in the past.

[dixiechick2000]

Thanks for the ping, and the graphic, devolve. It is absolutely perfect!

Thank you, too, Mr. Thompson for engaging those of us who are in the process of being sold down the river by your boss, whom I voted for twice, and who is the beneficiary of many of my $$$. You are a brave man. ;o)

I take issue with this.

"I would like to point out that the Secretary is authorized to reduce or mitigate penalities against employers who in good faith are trying to comply with the law. "

I don't know where you all got the idea that it's hard to verify a person's standing in this country. My husband hires people every day, and he has no problems weeding out the illegals.

And, he does NOT hire illegals...period. It's against the law. Unlike many employers, he loves and respects this country, and it's laws.

I've pinged one of those folks who conducts business as my husband does...wardaddy. Those who comply with the law in their business practices pay dearly to do so, but wouldn't do business in any other manner.

This bill is a slap in the face to those employers who do everything they can to comply with the laws on the books.

Speaking of which, why don't you folks in the DC bubble enforce the laws we have now? Should you do so, there would be no need to spend this time debating one of the most perverse, and treasonous, bills I've ever seen in my life.

And, tell those amnesty supporters in the Senate that we don't appreciate backroom deals, and their attempts to thwart the committee process, to ram this down our throats.

Remind them that THEY work for US. And, they can be fired by the same people who sent them to DC.

One more thing...please tell Trent Lott, Lindsey Graham and those who believe this amnesty bill (Z visas ARE amnesty) will somehow help John McCain win the Republican nomination, that they are smoking dope. There is absolutely NO way John McCain will win the nomination, especially now, not that I ever thought he had a chance.

[George W. Bush]

You'd better hurry. We've got a good opponent to defeat Hagel and soon we'll have one to run against Lindsey Grahamnesty.

They're toast. They'll be leaving D.C. in disgrace along with the rest of you.

[dixiechick2000]

"And one more thing: How dare members of the GOP in the highest offices refer to us as ‘bigots’ simply because we want immigrants to follow the rules as many of our parent did?"

Thank you...I meant to mention that.

We don't have "trouble with brown people", either, especially if they are here legally.

[Hydroshock]

Sorry, no sale. I do not trust Jorge to do anything to secure the borders. Show me the fence stretching from the Gulf to the Pacific and the flow of illegals has stopped first then after the border is secured then we can talk about guest workers and what to do with those here.

[djf]

There are GOOD young American boys and women fighting halfway around the world, shedding their blood and dying to protect the American way of life.

Yet our laws, language, and culture is being overwhelmed by people who have broken the law, and the White House somehow thinks that that’s just OK, I guess.

You have an OBLIGATION, a SWORN OATH, to protect our heritage and laws.

But you would rather look the other way, basically telling Mr. and Mrs. Born-In-Peoria to go to hell.

Thanks alot.
Not.

[gpapa]

How many construction contractors have been fined for violations? How many landscape firms? How many hotels? How many farmers? How many are operating in the underground cash market? How many thousands of small firms have been cited or fined for repeated violations?

You continue over and over again to repeat the mantra that these so called 'guest workers' or currently illegal aliens will do the jobs Americans won't do. With all due respect most Americans do those jobs themselves. We mow our own lawns, do our own laundry, clean our own houses, wash our own cars, etc., etc., and we make our kids do the same. If we need low cost labor to perform jobs that do not go filled at the low end of the wage scale, give them to some of the groups that have a relatively high unemployment rate according to the latest Household Survey; like teeagers, 16-19, at 17.3%; blacks at 8.5%; latinos or hispanics at 5.8%. Remove both the instant amnesty (or legalization if you prefer) and guest worker portions of the program, and pass an enforcement only program. If that works over an extended period of time most of us will consider measured steps to handle those folks still remaining in an illegal alien status. From a political standpoint you are certainly aware that the AFL-CIO and other unions are strongly opposed to the guest worker portions of the bill. Most of us on the right side of the political divide and a number of conservatives in the Congress are opposed to the amnesty portions of the Senate bill, which is couched in the VISA catagories defined as Z1, Z2 and Z3. Many blue and white collar workers, on both left and right, are opposed to those portions of the bill as well. Now don't tell me that there is no amnesty granted in any part of the bill. You may as well be explicit about that term, as it was used to describe the 1986 bill, and get pass that controversy.

Even if offered what percentage of the illegal alien population who resided in country before January 1, 2007, will actually come forward and apply for the Z visas, given the fines and process involved. Many may just stay in the shadows as they do now and ignore any effort at enforcement. The Senate bill also does nothing to mitigate the effect of local jurisdictions who do not report violations to ICE, particularly in cities designated as sanctuaries. How would you propose that problem to be corrected? Regards, gpapa

[amihow]

We do not trust you government and its minions.

I believe there are in place already verification procedures for employers. It is voluntary, but failure to take advantage of it renders them guilty of any illegal hiring and subject to fines and jail.

You have lost the Republican Party and are on the verge of losing the country for lack of principle and for pandering to the business interests in this country at the expense not only of Americans who have lost their jobs, but the illegal slave class who cry to Heaven itself for vengeance.

Shame on you, Congress and the President.

[Halgr]

We conservatives feel abandoned and betrayed by BUSH and Co.....there is no way you can paint this pig and take away its OINK.

[RJL]

Nicholas, You're a brave man. Bush has angered many of his base supporters, myself among them.

Bush says that current immigration situation is "unacceptable". It's only unacceptable because Bush refuses to do his constitutional duty and secure our borders and enforce our current immigration laws. If Bush would do so, most all of our immigration problems would vanish.

Bush's lack of a winning plan on illegal immigration has already led to the loss of the Republican Congress.

Years ago even Senate Leader Frist was saying secure the borders first. If, at that time Bush had deigned to work with fellow Republicans and truly secured the border, he could have come back to a Republican congress a year or two later and asked for a guest worker plan, they would have gladly passed that.

Then Bush could have sailed into the past elections with his fellow Republicans happy with a secure border and Hispanics happy with a guest worker plan, a win-win strategy.

But no, Bush went with the lose-lose strategy, where he alienated his base Republican voters and angered the Hispanics who then voted 70%~76% for Democrats.

Fellow Republicans paid the price for Bush's stubborn short sightedness.

If Bush really gets behind it and pulls every lever of power available to him, he still has time to prove himself by securing the borders for the entire world to see for a year, and then coming back to Congress for a guest worker plan and maybe amnesty and citizenship. But if he continues to ride this horrific immigration legislation over the cliff, he will only continue to rip apart the Republican Party, and that will be his legacy.

[teletech]

Firstly, let me thank you for taking the time to post.

IMHO if this bill passes, it will be hung around the President's neck and become his sad legacy. It is simply WRONG to reward illegal behavior. To do so, only invites MORE illegal behavior. I would really like to know why MY President thinks this is a good idea. Doesn't he realize that this will hammer the Republican Party for decades? This will all but assure we have President Hillary in 2008!

I love and respect President Bush as a man of faith BUT this is just simply WRONG!

[carton253]

Tell the President that even though I disagree with his stance on the immigration bill, that my support of him remains strong. He is still the right man at the right time. I am praying for him. God Bless W!

[isthisnickcool]

I believe that it is important for us to reach out to the Hispanics while at the same time checking out the background of each illegal immigrant in the United States to make sure that they are not potential terrorists. It is also important to secure our borders by building a fence to control the flow of undocumented immigrants.

Explain how you check the background of someone from South America that has done all sorts of crimes down there and then entered the US illegally? You can't! That's one of the silliest things about this whole charade!

You can't even do a comprehensive electronic criminal history on LEGAL AMERICANS! Before Mr. Thompson got to the point in government that he could work in the White House do you think they punched a few keys on a computer and said "he's clean"? Nope, they had people go out and investigate him by talking to friends, neighbors, employers, etc. Why did they do that? Because there is no such thing as a comprehensive criminal history background check!

[Socratic]

If you haven’t gotten the message yet after all these posts, here it is again: Enforce current laws - Build the fence - Stop the current torrent of illegals pouring in - Tell us the truth!

[afnamvet]

Border security is imperative in fighting terrorism. How about securing our nation's borders before the border of Iraq?

The Executive branch's job is to ENFORCE our nation's laws. The American people do NOT need another immigration law when the track record on enforcement is abysmal at best regarding immigration law under USC title 8.

Immigration law is NOT broken. Enforcement is broken.

Lastly, as an American who fought for this country and opposes the current Kennedy - Kyl bill, I am quite angry at being called a vigilante, bigot and unpatriotic by the current resident of the Oval office.

[Halgr]

Bush is Persona non grata here these days.

[Wolfie]

They can make the penalties as severe or lenient as they like. Doesn’t really matter when they have no intention of applying them.

[Do Be]

You get the short straw?

The man and the plan you represent have fast become symbols of what it means to be anti-American.

Since it apparent you and yours believe us to be stupid and thus feel free to lie to us without even the pretense of telling the truth, there is no point in drawing you into honest discussion.

Nor is there much point in educating you and the thieves and liars you stand for. You can't hear and you don't care.

Just what was the reason for your pathetic post? Did you come up with this or was it a committee decision?

As if you didn't know the impact this bill would have on this country.

Maybe you don't. Maybe you were selected because you are the most clueless. If so, take a couple days and cruse the threads on the amnesty bill. You will learn a great deal.

Please feel free to come back and post again. Encourage some of your buddies to do the same. But hey, get up to speed. Until then you're just target practice.

Isn't there one flunky with enough wit to stand toe to toe, point by point on the merits of anmesty? If any of you believe even just a little bit in this crap you ought to be able to defend and present it.

Yeah, I know I gave you credit there for a second of being in at least a tiny position of integrity. That's just one of the many things you guys have set about destroying.

And by the way, you aren't just the messenger. Those who are anti-American and those who support them are equally accountable.

[RJL]

As a reminder of what’s in the bill, fines for hiring an illegal worker are $5,000 maximum per illegal worker for the first offense, $10,000 maximum per illegal worker for the second, $25,000 maximum per illegal worker for the third , and $75,000 maximum per illegal worker for the fourth.

In addition, the bill increases the maximum criminal penalty for a pattern or practice of unlawful hiring twenty-five-fold, from $3,000 to $75,000, and would impose a prison term of up to six months. This represents a significant increase in fines for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

You tell us the maximum fines, what are the minimums, which are far more likely to be meted out by the Bush administration?