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Penalty Mitigation in the Immigration Reform Bill [White House Spokesman Responds: Post #53]
Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2007 | philman_36

Posted on 06/13/2007 6:57:12 AM PDT by philman_36

This morning on Fox and Friends there was made mention that much stricter fines are in the immigration reform bill. While this is true many folks may not know about a few words that follow the language about the tougher fines. Those words make a travesty of any "fines" as they can be waved and the employer could walk away owing nothing in penalties.

Here are the words I've got a problem with...

(D) The Secretary is authorized to reduce or mitigate penalties imposed upon employers, based upon factors including, but not limited to, the employer's hiring volume, compliance history, good-faith implementation of a compliance program, participation in temporary worker program, and voluntary disclosure of violations of this subsection to the Secretary.

So while we're being told that "the penalties are tougher" we aren't being told that under some circumstances employers can face reduced or even no fine whatsoever.
At this point of time in our history America can't afford our officials not being completely truthful to us and not stating that the possibility exists for employers to potentially be let off the hook completely is simply unacceptable.

TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; amnestytroll; beggingforamnesty; blowbackfordubya; deafrino; duncanhunter; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; judicialbypass; nicholasthompson; noamnestyforillegals; nthompsonwhitehouse; sellouts; vampirebill; wontgetfooledagain
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To: justanotherfreeper

great post. you might be interested in this:

161 posted on 06/14/2007 1:02:02 PM PDT by AJFavish (
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
For example, a 2005 program, “Operation Rollback,” assessed $15,000,000 in civil fines to employers,...

In 2005, during one of his Atzlan tours, Fox thanked his 16,000,000 countrymen who were sending remittances home.

You're bragging about "assessing" less than one buck per illegal? Next time you venture out of your world, bring something substantial.

162 posted on 06/14/2007 1:04:11 PM PDT by kitchen (Hey, Pericles. What are the three things a ruler must know?)
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To: WOSG; nthompsonwhitehouse

You and I see it — why can’t this friggin White House? The only comfort I have is the bill will have AZ so blue no way Kyl will be able to win in six years. Kyl will be hoisted on his own petard — cold comfort but I’ll take it. I do feel sorry for your Senator Cornyn, he’s been so heroic on this. Both my Senators are complete weasels, who knows what they’ll end up doing.

163 posted on 06/14/2007 1:06:43 PM PDT by justanotherfreeper
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Thank you for responding on FR to make your case.

Mr.Bush has told us we conservatives did not care about the future of the country. I have 3 young daughters, and Mr.Bush needs to know I care more than he could ever know about the future of this country. They are my children. I provide housing, shelter, food, medication, education, medical insurance for them. My entire life, and my wifes', revolves around what is best for them. In November-2000 the five of us stood out on the street by the court house in Lufkin, Texas, in the rain, holding "Bush/Cheney" signs. I donated to several thousand dollars to the election of Bush and other republicans precisely because I do care about my country, which MR.Bush says I don't care about. His North Carolina cheerleader referred to me as a bigot. Let me tell you...I don't hate a person on earth...not one. I don't like the ways of people, but I don't hate anyone, and I never will.

Mr. Bush/Kennedy plan to import up to 40 million (Heritage Foundation projections) over the next few years, of the poorest, least skilled, least otherwords, the welfare class of Mexico. Why? Is our president so naive that he does not think the American taxpayer will soon be picking up that tab? My children, who Mr.Bush says I care not one wit about their future, will have to pay up to 82% of their earnings in 25 years, to the federal government just to cover the federal obligations the government has incurred so far. That translates.....either the Fed will monitize the debt, or the obligations of the government will be changed so that although my children will be mercilessly be taxed they will not receive one cent in the contract the SS system signed with my kids (remember SS in not a tax, but a contract). Now Bush seeks to import an entire countrys' underclass of empoverished peole and force my children to pay for it. Tell MR. Bush I care more than he could ever know about the future of this country.

I receive about 1 to 2 calls per week from some republican organization seeking to get a donation. I simply ask "Why?"..."Well, because Hillary is going to socialize medicine, or Hillary will win...we must stop her." How, may I ask, have the Republicans brought less government to this country? How have they improved on the Illegal Immigration Invasion? How have they improved the schools....No Child Left Behind, written by Ted Kennedy? Where is the differentiation? I voted for Mr. Bush, twice. Nearly got in serious squabbles defending his postions. For what? So he can destroy the Republican party and the future of the United States. He is Balkanizing this country with his policies. He has not even tried to bring the base along on this immigration bill. He has presummed we would follow. Nosir. I have stopped following his lead. It is sad that I feel this way. It is improper that he dismiss his base with the back of his hand. But that is what he has done.

I can only promise I will never vote Democrat. The malevolence of the party is too great. But there seems to be little difference between the democrat and republican in Washington. I may vote for Hunter, or Thompson,...not Guiliani, McCane,Romney. I may go to the Conservative party or Constitution party. But the Republicans have left me. Many will stay home next election, probably assurring Hillarys' victory. At least I will know what runs this country. I know the evil in her heart.

Tell Mr.Bush he could start by having some guts and pardoning Scooter Libby NOW. Libby and his family has been through quiet enough. It would repair some damage done to the base. It would not repair the immigration position he takes and plans to inflict on this country.

164 posted on 06/14/2007 1:07:18 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Close the border now, enforce the laws. Our federal prisons are packed full of illegal criminals, murderers, drug dealers, gang members all from South of the border. I’ve worked in federal law enforcement for 20 years and have never seen it this bad. The US attorney in Tucson, AZ last year would not even prosecute drug smugglers with less than 240 lbs of marijuana in their possession. I heard the threshold amount was raised to 500 lbs this year. This came from talking directly to DEA and Customs agents who had the smugglers in their custody.

US citizens are prosecuted with minimal amounts. This is justice under Bush’s reign? Give amnesty to criminals from Mexico and this country will continue a downward spiral. Not one more dime or one more vote for any liberal Republican that supports this crap.

165 posted on 06/14/2007 1:09:24 PM PDT by formerliberal_nowconservative
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Nick.....Stop the Madness!!! NEVER trust a KENNEDY!!! I would NEVER vote for Bush again...I supported him on everything til now. This has ruined our
“Law and Order” mantel ....Bush has already ruined our “Less Spending” mantel. Tell him to STOP!!

166 posted on 06/14/2007 1:09:37 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her Phoniness is Genuine!!!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Let me just assure you and Mr. Rove, that there are many on the internet today, who will instantly recognize the tactic involved in focusing on individual trees in the forest, where an advantage is seen, and avoiding the whole concept of what constitutes a forest.

The overall concept of your immigration policy ignores the interests of the American people in the continuity of their existing cultures. The bill would result in a continued and accelerated expansion of those who are incongruous to those cultures, both by immigration and a far higher birthrate, once here. We need a full and honest debate on all issues involved--a true comprehension of the forest, to pursue the metaphor--not a rush to judgment.

Conservatives have previously been insulted for their opposition; efforts have been made to invoke cloture to avoid that debate; now you appear to be focusing on the individual trees to avoid that debate.

What are you so afraid of?

William Flax

167 posted on 06/14/2007 1:09:41 PM PDT by Ohioan
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To: SnarlinCubBear

Post of the day.

Protect our borders.
Then we can talk.

168 posted on 06/14/2007 1:10:39 PM PDT by djf (Bush's legacy: Way more worried about Iraqs borders than our own!!! A once great nation... sad...)
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That's hilarious.

America's illegal immigration reality, parts II-IV:

FBI's wanted-for-murder list
DEA's most wanted list.
LAPD's most wanted list
169 posted on 06/14/2007 1:15:18 PM PDT by ruination
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Mr. Thompson,

I was born at night but it wasn’t last night.

This sales pitch may work with very few, but not among informed Conservatives.

Now here’s a sales pitch for you to take back to your boss... Close the borders, build the fence, enforce the laws, no amnesty.

Even those born at night are able to understand and comprehend NO TO AMNESTY!

170 posted on 06/14/2007 1:15:49 PM PDT by Diver Dave
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

I would be pleased just to see the present law enforced. What has Bush done on enforcement of present immigration law that would make one think that stronger penalties would be enforced. By the way, one point, “Operation Rollback” doesn’t make a trend. In fact, it looks awful lonely out there in the field by itself.

171 posted on 06/14/2007 1:17:22 PM PDT by Modok
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

#1You don’t have the manpower or funding to enforce the fines you talk about

#2 I see zero evidence of a serious deportation apparatus being built. There is no provision for deportation of —>>
a) Those who refuse to sign up for Z visa
b) Those who due to criminality are denied Z Visa
c) Those who commit crimes while holding Z visas

172 posted on 06/14/2007 1:21:32 PM PDT by dennisw (The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
This is less that 1% of the total potential penalty, with very conservative numbers. If the current law has a $1,000 fine per illegal, and there are 5,000,000 illegals working in the US (out of 20 million, so the real number is likely 15 million or more), then there's about $5 Billion in fines out there waiting for the Feds to come and collect. So the $26.7 million is just 0.53% of what you could get. With a more realistic number of working illegals (15 million), this would be more like 0.18% of the total.

Color me unimpressed.

173 posted on 06/14/2007 1:25:46 PM PDT by Liberty Tree Surgeon (Mow your own lawn!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Thank you for posting this.

I’ll take some time to respond to your post this evening.

174 posted on 06/14/2007 1:25:47 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
If ANY form of Amnesty is passed again. I fully expect a Tax revolt from Lawful American citizens. I will absolutely participate. Then Lawful American citizens will hopefully get the message across to the government that is in power. Apparently, this is again all about money. If the Lawful citizens of this country take away the revenue, I think you guys will finally get the message!
175 posted on 06/14/2007 1:26:44 PM PDT by abner (I have no tagline, therefore no identity.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Oath of Office for President.
Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution.

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

Serves as Commander in Chief.
Article II, Section 2 of the U.S Constitution.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Protects Each State Against Invasion.
Article IV, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution.

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.

176 posted on 06/14/2007 1:28:13 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
"If you had a traffic ticket and you paid it, you're not forever a speeder, are you?" White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said in response to questions from The Examiner.

___________________________________________________________ This is from the same White House?

Comparing 25 million people entering this country illegally to a mere traffic ticket?

Are we at war?

If so why are millions entering illegally, along with endless trucks full of drugs and human cargo?

Is this considered security during war? By whom?

This historic invasion of America was all but ignored by most all politicians. Why? Follow the money. The corporations and business owners send their dollars to support the politicians campaigns to ensure their low wage labor never ends. You know this.

The consequences? 20,000 American victims a year due to burglaries, robberies, rapes, murders, shootings, fraud, drunk drivers etc. Not to mention the thousands of pounds of drugs smuggled in weekly, the lost jobs, reduced wages, and destroyed neighborhoods.

Do you think anyone continues to be fooled by any of this?

177 posted on 06/14/2007 1:35:19 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Please consider these points made by Local 2544 - U. S. Border Control, Tucson Sector (Visit their website for more:

“05-20-07 Certain members of the United States Senate have embarked on an ill-informed path that will give amnesty to illegal aliens. They are attempting, once again, to sell the American people a bill of goods that rewards millions of illegal alien lawbreakers and throws the rule of law out the window. Both senators from Arizona, McCain and Kyl, have come out in support of this disastrous legislation. We are especially disappointed that Senator Kyl has helped sponsor this foolishness. We endorsed Senator Kyl last year, in a very close race, with the clear understanding that he would remain opposed to any form of amnesty that rewards illegal aliens. We are dumbfounded. We are currently working on a letter to Senator Kyl so that he clearly understands our profound disappointment in his actions. We expected this type of sellout from Senator McCain, and even from Border Patrol Chief David Aguilar, but we didn’t expect it from Senator Kyl. We believed him to be a man of his word, in a political atmosphere where ones word doesn’t mean much anymore.

Is it any wonder that morale in the BP continuously erodes to levels never thought possible? Can you imagine telling Highway Patrolmen that drag racers and drunk drivers should be released without penalty and rewarded with continued driving privileges for breaking the law? Can you imagine telling DEA agents that cocaine, methamphetamine, and marijuana are good for people and that they need to back off their enforcement efforts? Can you imagine telling game wardens that poachers are just “innocent victims” who should be given the fruits of their illegal behavior without penalty? Can you imagine telling our military personnel overseas that they’re really not fighting for anything important and that radical Islamists are just misunderstood folks who need a hug? If you can’t imagine any of this, then why should anyone imagine telling Border Patrol agents that massive illegal immigration is something to be honored with yet another amnesty program designed to reward the same people we risk our lives to arrest? This is disgraceful America.”

178 posted on 06/14/2007 1:35:36 PM PDT by gpapa
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Dear Nick: Thanks for having the guts (or sorry about being assigned the task) of coming into FR with that curveball. But if that's the best you've got, save your bluster for people who are less informed and more gullible.

Everything I need to know about how sincere the Bush Administration is about enforcement of the border or against illegal immigration was answered on July 8, 2004 by Asa Hutchinson, former Undersecretary for Border & Transportation Security at DHS.

After a sudden, efficient, and effective Border Patrol sweep of illegals in Southern California came to a sudden halt, KFI - Los Angeles talkhosts John Kobylt and Ken Chiampou demanded Hutchinson explain why it stopped after Hispanic activist groups protested. A letter-writing and phone-calling campaign compelled Hutchinson to come to California, where he held a public forum. But he also agreed to an interview with John and Ken, thinking he could spin them. He was wrong.

Here's what happened in the aftermath of Hutchinson's attempt to justify the Bush Admin's Southern border strategy:

The Truth About Asa Hutchinson
Posted by The John and Ken Show @ 2:50 pm

The John & Ken Show received an e-mail this morning (March 1, 2005) that might shed some light on why the Undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Asa Hutchinson is leaving his post. You can hear the anonymous person, who wrote this e-mail, today at 4pm. Read the e-mail below:

John and Ken:

First of all, I love you and have been loyal since your first day into KFI from the East Coast. I love America and, therefore, I love your basic understanding of our Constitution. Beyond that, your passion …or ranting and raving…is what life is about after our kids.

Those damm radio shock jocks ... anyone got a tissue?I was at a National Aviation Security Conference. At a break in the conference, I was talking to Asa’s Chief of Staff, and did not know who he was. He mentioned how different the articles in the newspaper were here about Border Issues than they were inside the Beltway. I suggested he should listen to the radio here without mentioning which station and he IMMEDIATELY became very animated. He told me how many file drawers he had of letters and emails he had from KFI, 5 drawers full, and how severely it affected Asa. It was the letters, our numerous letters and emails, he said that made Asa agree to come to Temecula, because Asa could always hold his own in speaking to crowds. Chris Clark related that Asa was blown away by the KFI staff and audience and decided immediately to retire to Arkansas and run for governor after the Temecula program.

You did it, guys. What a great job. I believe in America; and a bunch of mobilized, fairly affluent baby boomers with two big-mouthed, bull-horned radio hosts as our fearless leaders is unstoppable. Please keep up the good work and let me know how I can help. Tommy Jefferson would be proud.

Do yourself a favor, Nick: download this audio clip to your iPod, and listen carefully. It will show you what you are up against. Asa found out what happens when you tug on the base's cape one time too often with nothing but Ralph Kramden hamina-hamina-haminas when asked to elaborate beyond talking points. It looks like President Bush will learn this lesson as well.

But if you, Nick, choose to stick around the Bush WH, steal some time to update your resume. Maybe you can find a job working for someone who is more on the ball than Karl Rove.

179 posted on 06/14/2007 1:36:21 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Has George W. Bush been taking Carter's Little Pills?)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Thank you for taking the time to respond to those of us on FreeRepublic.

All I and many others want you to do is secure the border. Really secure the border, like the border between North and South Korea. I want to know that not one person is sneaking across our border. After that is done, I am willing to listen and comprise on what to do with those already here.

I wish America could support everyone in the world, but we can't. I cannot continue to pay for illegal's healthcare, education, etc....

We need to halt all immigration until a secure border is in place and we have figured out what to do with those all ready here.

180 posted on 06/14/2007 1:40:18 PM PDT by yellowdoghunter (Secure the border, Mr. President)
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