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Penalty Mitigation in the Immigration Reform Bill [White House Spokesman Responds: Post #53]
Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2007 | philman_36

Posted on 06/13/2007 6:57:12 AM PDT by philman_36

This morning on Fox and Friends there was made mention that much stricter fines are in the immigration reform bill. While this is true many folks may not know about a few words that follow the language about the tougher fines. Those words make a travesty of any "fines" as they can be waved and the employer could walk away owing nothing in penalties.

Here are the words I've got a problem with...

(D) The Secretary is authorized to reduce or mitigate penalties imposed upon employers, based upon factors including, but not limited to, the employer's hiring volume, compliance history, good-faith implementation of a compliance program, participation in temporary worker program, and voluntary disclosure of violations of this subsection to the Secretary.

So while we're being told that "the penalties are tougher" we aren't being told that under some circumstances employers can face reduced or even no fine whatsoever.
At this point of time in our history America can't afford our officials not being completely truthful to us and not stating that the possibility exists for employers to potentially be let off the hook completely is simply unacceptable.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; amnestytroll; beggingforamnesty; blowbackfordubya; deafrino; duncanhunter; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; judicialbypass; nicholasthompson; noamnestyforillegals; nthompsonwhitehouse; sellouts; vampirebill; wontgetfooledagain
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To: Right Wing Assault; nthompsonwhitehouse
Sorry, Philman, the following was supposed to be directed toward Nicholas:

Well, if you are still listening, I would like to know why children born in the USA automatically become citizens. We do not need this and it should be removed from out immigration policy.

Make it part of the bill and you will win a few more friends.

151 posted on 06/14/2007 12:51:42 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
President Bush's perception of illegal immigration:

America's illegal immigration reality:


152 posted on 06/14/2007 12:52:26 PM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Enforce the existing laws.

Build the mandated fence.

The White House has zero credibility on the immigration issue. I'm disgusted with this administration. Thanks for destroying the GOP! I'm a diehard Conservative and you've completely lost my support.

Oh, yeah. The "New Tone" SUCKS! You should have played hardball with the Democrats from day one.

153 posted on 06/14/2007 12:52:28 PM PDT by SIDENET ("Baby steps to the elevator...")
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
For example, a 2005 program, “Operation Rollback,” assessed $15,000,000 in civil fines to employers, an amount greater than the sum of administrative fines collected in the previous eight years and was the largest worksite enforcement penalty in US history. In the first quarter of FY07, criminal and civil forfeitures have totaled $26,700,000 for employers.

Sorry but I'm not buying it. This administartions record on enforcement has been absolutely awful...right up until the time that it started working to shove this damned monstrosity down our throats. Sort of like the Fence bill that got passed last year just before election day...the fence that seven months later is still practically unstarted.

Tell President Bush that his base...the folks who have been loyal supporters of his and those of us who have voted for him and have defended him for the last 6 years..isn't buying this plan and his continued exhortations only serve to further alienate him from the people who have put him in office. He is destroying the GOP. If this bill passes and he signs it, I'll be through with the party forever, and I won't be alone.

154 posted on 06/14/2007 12:53:01 PM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Dear Mr. Thompson:

Please let everybody in the White House and Senate know that there is absolutely no need to import a slave underclass and cover $20,000 in expenses per person annually (according to Heritage Foundation). And no, they WILL NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN, in case there is some idiot in the White House that thinks otherwise. Increasing minimum wage for “those jobs Americans won’t do” will solve “the labor shortage” issue. Importing uneducated workers is a drain on the US economy and public institutions. Mr. President, who went to Yale and Harvard should know better.

The job of this government is to support American citizens, not Mexican poor and criminals.

SO PLEASE VOTE RESPONSIBLY!

P.S. I don’t care if you call me a bigot or a racist, but RNC will not get a dime till the border is secured and 12-20-35-40 million of illegals are deported.


155 posted on 06/14/2007 12:57:10 PM PDT by bmw_n_me (Keep working! Millions depend on your welfare!)
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To: justanotherfreeper; nthompsonwhitehouse

It’s the comprehensive Destroy-the-Republican-party bill.

Texas’ Republican majority, a fairly new majority btw, is rotting from the inside. A fellow Texas freeper and I agreed that sham-nesty will make Texas a liberal Democrat majority state within a decade ... or maybe immediately given how angry so many people are about our own party over this. In Bexar county they found illegal aliens registered to vote, and some of them voted:

http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2007/06/illegal-aliens-cast-ballots-in-bexar.html

As you mention, the census reaportionment *alone* GIVES ILLEGAL ALIENS AN INDIRECT SAY IN OUR GOVERNMENT, by creatin g ‘rotten boroughs’ with many ilegals, few citizens and fewer voters, but consistent liberal Democrats.

Taxpaying citizens get their representation diluted by this action.


156 posted on 06/14/2007 12:57:30 PM PDT by WOSG (Stop Z-visa amnesty! Call your Senator today! 202-224-3121.)
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To: lowbridge

A zot for WH PR?
So if President Bush himself showed up and gave a post about immigration, he’d get zotted? Wow, sign o’ the times indeed.


157 posted on 06/14/2007 12:59:53 PM PDT by WOSG (Stop Z-visa amnesty! Call your Senator today! 202-224-3121.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/welfarerelease.html

Enough said.


158 posted on 06/14/2007 1:00:43 PM PDT by bmw_n_me (Keep working! Millions depend on your welfare!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Here’s a 2006 White House Office Staff List from July 2006.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/graphics/2006stafflistsalary.html

I don’t see a Thompson.

Here’s who I think he is.

Nicholas Thompson is an editor of The Washington Monthly. You can email him by clicking here or read his other articles by clicking here. When he was a student, Thompson worked on a campaign opposing the rankings.
nthompson@washingtonmonthly.com

Which probably means he doesn’t have Bush’s ear.


159 posted on 06/14/2007 1:01:26 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Fool us once, shame on you.
Fool us twice, shame on us.
Protect our borders.
Then, we can talk.


160 posted on 06/14/2007 1:01:33 PM PDT by SnarlinCubBear ("Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." -- Thomas Mann)
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To: justanotherfreeper

great post. you might be interested in this: http://www.allanfavish.com/immigration.htm


161 posted on 06/14/2007 1:02:02 PM PDT by AJFavish (www.allanfavish.com)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
For example, a 2005 program, “Operation Rollback,” assessed $15,000,000 in civil fines to employers,...

In 2005, during one of his Atzlan tours, Fox thanked his 16,000,000 countrymen who were sending remittances home.

You're bragging about "assessing" less than one buck per illegal? Next time you venture out of your world, bring something substantial.

162 posted on 06/14/2007 1:04:11 PM PDT by kitchen (Hey, Pericles. What are the three things a ruler must know?)
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To: WOSG; nthompsonwhitehouse

You and I see it — why can’t this friggin White House? The only comfort I have is the bill will have AZ so blue no way Kyl will be able to win in six years. Kyl will be hoisted on his own petard — cold comfort but I’ll take it. I do feel sorry for your Senator Cornyn, he’s been so heroic on this. Both my Senators are complete weasels, who knows what they’ll end up doing.


163 posted on 06/14/2007 1:06:43 PM PDT by justanotherfreeper
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Thank you for responding on FR to make your case.

Mr.Bush has told us we conservatives did not care about the future of the country. I have 3 young daughters, and Mr.Bush needs to know I care more than he could ever know about the future of this country. They are my children. I provide housing, shelter, food, medication, education, medical insurance for them. My entire life, and my wifes', revolves around what is best for them. In November-2000 the five of us stood out on the street by the court house in Lufkin, Texas, in the rain, holding "Bush/Cheney" signs. I donated to several thousand dollars to the election of Bush and other republicans precisely because I do care about my country, which MR.Bush says I don't care about. His North Carolina cheerleader referred to me as a bigot. Let me tell you...I don't hate a person on earth...not one. I don't like the ways of people, but I don't hate anyone, and I never will.

Mr. Bush/Kennedy plan to import up to 40 million (Heritage Foundation projections) over the next few years, of the poorest, least skilled, least educated....in otherwords, the welfare class of Mexico. Why? Is our president so naive that he does not think the American taxpayer will soon be picking up that tab? My children, who Mr.Bush says I care not one wit about their future, will have to pay up to 82% of their earnings in 25 years, to the federal government just to cover the federal obligations the government has incurred so far. That translates.....either the Fed will monitize the debt, or the obligations of the government will be changed so that although my children will be mercilessly be taxed they will not receive one cent in the contract the SS system signed with my kids (remember SS in not a tax, but a contract). Now Bush seeks to import an entire countrys' underclass of empoverished peole and force my children to pay for it. Tell MR. Bush I care more than he could ever know about the future of this country.

I receive about 1 to 2 calls per week from some republican organization seeking to get a donation. I simply ask "Why?"..."Well, because Hillary is going to socialize medicine, or Hillary will win...we must stop her." How, may I ask, have the Republicans brought less government to this country? How have they improved on the Illegal Immigration Invasion? How have they improved the schools....No Child Left Behind, written by Ted Kennedy? Where is the differentiation? I voted for Mr. Bush, twice. Nearly got in serious squabbles defending his postions. For what? So he can destroy the Republican party and the future of the United States. He is Balkanizing this country with his policies. He has not even tried to bring the base along on this immigration bill. He has presummed we would follow. Nosir. I have stopped following his lead. It is sad that I feel this way. It is improper that he dismiss his base with the back of his hand. But that is what he has done.

I can only promise I will never vote Democrat. The malevolence of the party is too great. But there seems to be little difference between the democrat and republican in Washington. I may vote for Hunter, or Thompson,...not Guiliani, McCane,Romney. I may go to the Conservative party or Constitution party. But the Republicans have left me. Many will stay home next election, probably assurring Hillarys' victory. At least I will know what runs this country. I know the evil in her heart.

Tell Mr.Bush he could start by having some guts and pardoning Scooter Libby NOW. Libby and his family has been through quiet enough. It would repair some damage done to the base. It would not repair the immigration position he takes and plans to inflict on this country.

164 posted on 06/14/2007 1:07:18 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Close the border now, enforce the laws. Our federal prisons are packed full of illegal criminals, murderers, drug dealers, gang members all from South of the border. I’ve worked in federal law enforcement for 20 years and have never seen it this bad. The US attorney in Tucson, AZ last year would not even prosecute drug smugglers with less than 240 lbs of marijuana in their possession. I heard the threshold amount was raised to 500 lbs this year. This came from talking directly to DEA and Customs agents who had the smugglers in their custody.

US citizens are prosecuted with minimal amounts. This is justice under Bush’s reign? Give amnesty to criminals from Mexico and this country will continue a downward spiral. Not one more dime or one more vote for any liberal Republican that supports this crap.


165 posted on 06/14/2007 1:09:24 PM PDT by formerliberal_nowconservative
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Nick.....Stop the Madness!!! NEVER trust a KENNEDY!!! I would NEVER vote for Bush again...I supported him on everything til now. This has ruined our
“Law and Order” mantel ....Bush has already ruined our “Less Spending” mantel. Tell him to STOP!!


166 posted on 06/14/2007 1:09:37 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her Phoniness is Genuine!!!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Let me just assure you and Mr. Rove, that there are many on the internet today, who will instantly recognize the tactic involved in focusing on individual trees in the forest, where an advantage is seen, and avoiding the whole concept of what constitutes a forest.

The overall concept of your immigration policy ignores the interests of the American people in the continuity of their existing cultures. The bill would result in a continued and accelerated expansion of those who are incongruous to those cultures, both by immigration and a far higher birthrate, once here. We need a full and honest debate on all issues involved--a true comprehension of the forest, to pursue the metaphor--not a rush to judgment.

Conservatives have previously been insulted for their opposition; efforts have been made to invoke cloture to avoid that debate; now you appear to be focusing on the individual trees to avoid that debate.

What are you so afraid of?

William Flax

167 posted on 06/14/2007 1:09:41 PM PDT by Ohioan
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To: SnarlinCubBear

Post of the day.

Protect our borders.
Then we can talk.


168 posted on 06/14/2007 1:10:39 PM PDT by djf (Bush's legacy: Way more worried about Iraqs borders than our own!!! A once great nation... sad...)
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To: PBRSTREETGANG
That's hilarious.

America's illegal immigration reality, parts II-IV:

FBI's wanted-for-murder list
DEA's most wanted list.
LAPD's most wanted list
169 posted on 06/14/2007 1:15:18 PM PDT by ruination
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Mr. Thompson,

I was born at night but it wasn’t last night.

This sales pitch may work with very few, but not among informed Conservatives.

Now here’s a sales pitch for you to take back to your boss... Close the borders, build the fence, enforce the laws, no amnesty.

Even those born at night are able to understand and comprehend NO TO AMNESTY!


170 posted on 06/14/2007 1:15:49 PM PDT by Diver Dave
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

I would be pleased just to see the present law enforced. What has Bush done on enforcement of present immigration law that would make one think that stronger penalties would be enforced. By the way, one point, “Operation Rollback” doesn’t make a trend. In fact, it looks awful lonely out there in the field by itself.


171 posted on 06/14/2007 1:17:22 PM PDT by Modok
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

#1You don’t have the manpower or funding to enforce the fines you talk about

#2 I see zero evidence of a serious deportation apparatus being built. There is no provision for deportation of —>>
a) Those who refuse to sign up for Z visa
b) Those who due to criminality are denied Z Visa
c) Those who commit crimes while holding Z visas


172 posted on 06/14/2007 1:21:32 PM PDT by dennisw (The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
This is less that 1% of the total potential penalty, with very conservative numbers. If the current law has a $1,000 fine per illegal, and there are 5,000,000 illegals working in the US (out of 20 million, so the real number is likely 15 million or more), then there's about $5 Billion in fines out there waiting for the Feds to come and collect. So the $26.7 million is just 0.53% of what you could get. With a more realistic number of working illegals (15 million), this would be more like 0.18% of the total.

Color me unimpressed.

173 posted on 06/14/2007 1:25:46 PM PDT by Liberty Tree Surgeon (Mow your own lawn!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Thank you for posting this.

I’ll take some time to respond to your post this evening.


174 posted on 06/14/2007 1:25:47 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
If ANY form of Amnesty is passed again. I fully expect a Tax revolt from Lawful American citizens. I will absolutely participate. Then Lawful American citizens will hopefully get the message across to the government that is in power. Apparently, this is again all about money. If the Lawful citizens of this country take away the revenue, I think you guys will finally get the message!
175 posted on 06/14/2007 1:26:44 PM PDT by abner (I have no tagline, therefore no identity.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Oath of Office for President.
Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution.

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

Serves as Commander in Chief.
Article II, Section 2 of the U.S Constitution.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Protects Each State Against Invasion.
Article IV, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution.

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.


176 posted on 06/14/2007 1:28:13 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
"If you had a traffic ticket and you paid it, you're not forever a speeder, are you?" White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said in response to questions from The Examiner.

___________________________________________________________ This is from the same White House?

Comparing 25 million people entering this country illegally to a mere traffic ticket?

Are we at war?

If so why are millions entering illegally, along with endless trucks full of drugs and human cargo?

Is this considered security during war? By whom?

This historic invasion of America was all but ignored by most all politicians. Why? Follow the money. The corporations and business owners send their dollars to support the politicians campaigns to ensure their low wage labor never ends. You know this.

The consequences? 20,000 American victims a year due to burglaries, robberies, rapes, murders, shootings, fraud, drunk drivers etc. Not to mention the thousands of pounds of drugs smuggled in weekly, the lost jobs, reduced wages, and destroyed neighborhoods.

Do you think anyone continues to be fooled by any of this?

177 posted on 06/14/2007 1:35:19 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Please consider these points made by Local 2544 - U. S. Border Control, Tucson Sector (Visit their website for more: http://www.local2544.org/)

“05-20-07 Certain members of the United States Senate have embarked on an ill-informed path that will give amnesty to illegal aliens. They are attempting, once again, to sell the American people a bill of goods that rewards millions of illegal alien lawbreakers and throws the rule of law out the window. Both senators from Arizona, McCain and Kyl, have come out in support of this disastrous legislation. We are especially disappointed that Senator Kyl has helped sponsor this foolishness. We endorsed Senator Kyl last year, in a very close race, with the clear understanding that he would remain opposed to any form of amnesty that rewards illegal aliens. We are dumbfounded. We are currently working on a letter to Senator Kyl so that he clearly understands our profound disappointment in his actions. We expected this type of sellout from Senator McCain, and even from Border Patrol Chief David Aguilar, but we didn’t expect it from Senator Kyl. We believed him to be a man of his word, in a political atmosphere where ones word doesn’t mean much anymore.

Is it any wonder that morale in the BP continuously erodes to levels never thought possible? Can you imagine telling Highway Patrolmen that drag racers and drunk drivers should be released without penalty and rewarded with continued driving privileges for breaking the law? Can you imagine telling DEA agents that cocaine, methamphetamine, and marijuana are good for people and that they need to back off their enforcement efforts? Can you imagine telling game wardens that poachers are just “innocent victims” who should be given the fruits of their illegal behavior without penalty? Can you imagine telling our military personnel overseas that they’re really not fighting for anything important and that radical Islamists are just misunderstood folks who need a hug? If you can’t imagine any of this, then why should anyone imagine telling Border Patrol agents that massive illegal immigration is something to be honored with yet another amnesty program designed to reward the same people we risk our lives to arrest? This is disgraceful America.”


178 posted on 06/14/2007 1:35:36 PM PDT by gpapa
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Dear Nick: Thanks for having the guts (or sorry about being assigned the task) of coming into FR with that curveball. But if that's the best you've got, save your bluster for people who are less informed and more gullible.

Everything I need to know about how sincere the Bush Administration is about enforcement of the border or against illegal immigration was answered on July 8, 2004 by Asa Hutchinson, former Undersecretary for Border & Transportation Security at DHS.

After a sudden, efficient, and effective Border Patrol sweep of illegals in Southern California came to a sudden halt, KFI - Los Angeles talkhosts John Kobylt and Ken Chiampou demanded Hutchinson explain why it stopped after Hispanic activist groups protested. A letter-writing and phone-calling campaign compelled Hutchinson to come to California, where he held a public forum. But he also agreed to an interview with John and Ken, thinking he could spin them. He was wrong.

Here's what happened in the aftermath of Hutchinson's attempt to justify the Bush Admin's Southern border strategy:


The Truth About Asa Hutchinson
Posted by The John and Ken Show @ 2:50 pm

The John & Ken Show received an e-mail this morning (March 1, 2005) that might shed some light on why the Undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Asa Hutchinson is leaving his post. You can hear the anonymous person, who wrote this e-mail, today at 4pm. Read the e-mail below:

John and Ken:

First of all, I love you and have been loyal since your first day into KFI from the East Coast. I love America and, therefore, I love your basic understanding of our Constitution. Beyond that, your passion …or ranting and raving…is what life is about after our kids.

Those damm radio shock jocks ... anyone got a tissue?I was at a National Aviation Security Conference. At a break in the conference, I was talking to Asa’s Chief of Staff, and did not know who he was. He mentioned how different the articles in the newspaper were here about Border Issues than they were inside the Beltway. I suggested he should listen to the radio here without mentioning which station and he IMMEDIATELY became very animated. He told me how many file drawers he had of letters and emails he had from KFI, 5 drawers full, and how severely it affected Asa. It was the letters, our numerous letters and emails, he said that made Asa agree to come to Temecula, because Asa could always hold his own in speaking to crowds. Chris Clark related that Asa was blown away by the KFI staff and audience and decided immediately to retire to Arkansas and run for governor after the Temecula program.

You did it, guys. What a great job. I believe in America; and a bunch of mobilized, fairly affluent baby boomers with two big-mouthed, bull-horned radio hosts as our fearless leaders is unstoppable. Please keep up the good work and let me know how I can help. Tommy Jefferson would be proud.


Do yourself a favor, Nick: download this audio clip to your iPod, and listen carefully. It will show you what you are up against. Asa found out what happens when you tug on the base's cape one time too often with nothing but Ralph Kramden hamina-hamina-haminas when asked to elaborate beyond talking points. It looks like President Bush will learn this lesson as well.

But if you, Nick, choose to stick around the Bush WH, steal some time to update your resume. Maybe you can find a job working for someone who is more on the ball than Karl Rove.

179 posted on 06/14/2007 1:36:21 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Has George W. Bush been taking Carter's Little Pills?)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Thank you for taking the time to respond to those of us on FreeRepublic.

All I and many others want you to do is secure the border. Really secure the border, like the border between North and South Korea. I want to know that not one person is sneaking across our border. After that is done, I am willing to listen and comprise on what to do with those already here.

I wish America could support everyone in the world, but we can't. I cannot continue to pay for illegal's healthcare, education, etc....

We need to halt all immigration until a secure border is in place and we have figured out what to do with those all ready here.

180 posted on 06/14/2007 1:40:18 PM PDT by yellowdoghunter (Secure the border, Mr. President)
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To: philman_36
Paris Hilton is facing tougher penalties than any of these low life, scum sucking, bottom feeding, gimme-gimme, criminals will ever face.

And that goes double for the Illegals.

181 posted on 06/14/2007 1:40:28 PM PDT by Condor51 (Rudy makes John Kerry look like a Right Wing 'Gun Nut' Extremist)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
With all due respect Sir, why not just take away the tax deductions for employers who hire employees with SSN’s that do NOT match their names? That would IMMEDIATELY end the hiring of Illegals! It seems to me that it would ALSO end the massive influx illegals, as the jobs they have come to Illegally fill will no longer be available to them!

Why not take the simplest solution to the problem? Why do we have to make such a maddeningly simple problem into a something more resembling something the cat puked up???

Make it part of the Law, Tax ID’s must match Names and other identification in order for employers to deduct employee wages as expenses and, blamo, end of problem! Illegals would be out of work and on their way home with their dependents who are sucking the life out of us, AND it would stem the tide of Illegals trying to ENTER the country as well. Its a pathetically SIMPLE solution! Take that and watch the President’s poll numbers SOAR, and watch the GOP win in 08 in a LANDSLIDE.

182 posted on 06/14/2007 1:40:46 PM PDT by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Mr. Thompson,

Thank you for taking the time to share this information. I think it is safe to say that a large majority of American citizens would welcome immigration reform if, unlike previous legislation, it started with enforcement and securing the border. Unfortunately, experience has shown that the promised enforcement and security never seems to materialize.

Here are a few of the questions or concerns that I think should be addressed before conservatives or republicans accept this liberal Kennedy legislation:

1. Why should we have any faith in the ability to enforce requirements that illegal aliens pay fines and/or back taxes and comply with the new law when we can’t seem to find the 12 to 20 million illegals currently here and can’t manage to actually deport millions of aliens who have already been ordered deported?

2. Why is a bill even given any consideration at all when fugitive illegal aliens who have been ordered deported but then fled will be given priority paths to citizenship ahead of immigration applicants who have been attempting to comply with our laws? (And how can any republican oppose the amendment that would have eliminated this provision?)

3. Why is it so critical to pass a “comprehensive” bill to legalize criminals who have deliberately violated our border right now rather than securing the border and implementing policies that make illegal immigration less attractive first?

4. Why does the President want to hand a legislative victory to the likes of Kennedy and Reid and Pelosi while they are actively stabbing him in the back, and at the same time criticize many of us who have been his most loyal defenders from the partisan attacks of the left rather than pushing for a workable solution that doesn’t reward people who have violated our laws for years and have the unmitigated gall to demand the right to continue to disregard our laws?


183 posted on 06/14/2007 1:45:03 PM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Welocome to FR. I'm also glad that someone has the backbone to come onto FR and speak to us. I'm also glad that the FReepers posting to you have been civil because there is a lot of anger in FR about this bill.

Hopefully you'll have a reply. A thread would be best so your message doesn't get lost in the hundreds of posts to you.

For a good immigration bill by Chris Core, see below. He's on WMAL, 630AM radio.

Below is his letter:

A few weeks back, Chris offered you, the listeners, the chance to call in and tell him what provisions you think the Senate immigration bill ought to contain. Well, after some organizing and mop-up editing, Chris was able to draft the first ever 630 WMAL Immigration Bill, which he then mailed to South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham. For your viewing pleasure, Chris has posted the bill below. Thanks for your help!

May 21, 2007
Senator Lindsey Graham
290 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington D.C. 20510

Dear Senator Graham,

In your speech in South Carolina last weekend, you said “if you don’t like President Bush’s proposal (on immigration) come up with one of your own.” I took you at your word, and spent three hours on the air on Monday taking calls from my listeners in hopes of writing a better immigration bill. We kept in mind the items that the President says he needs in such a bill. I think my audience did a great job. Please give our bill consideration.

1. Border security must come first. Once the government has secured the border, illegal immigration must be reduced by 98 per cent from present levels for one year, before any other provisions of the law can take effect.

2. During the year of border-testing, the lawful immigration process must be streamlined. All applicants for permanent residency in the United States, currently waiting in line, must be accepted or rejected within one year, with no further immigration allowed until this process is complete.

3. All illegal immigrants shall have one year to register and be given an official I.D. card from the U.S. government. Any illegal immigrant not having registered within that one year period will, upon being discovered, be deported and never again allowed back into the United States.

4. English shall be declared the official language of the United States, and all official federal documents, including ballots, shall be printed only in English. The federal government shall encourage all local governments and businesses to follow the same guidelines.

5. It shall be federal law that proper photo identification must be presented before voting, to ensure that only American citizens vote.

6. The “anchor baby” provisions of the constitution must be eliminated.

ONCE THE FIRST SIX PROVISIONS OF THE BILL HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED, THE FOLLOWING REFORMS CAN BEGIN.

7. Employers can request “guest workers” for jobs that Americans do not want. But, employers will post a bond with the U.S. government for each worker. That bond shall be returned when it is verified that the guest worker has left the United States.

8. Twenty per cent of the wages that “guest workers” earn shall be held in an interesting-bearing account to be paid to them when they return to their home countries.

9. A two per cent tax shall be imposed on all money sent out of the United States by non-American citizens. This tax shall be returned to the local jurisdictions where the money was earned to off-set the cost of the additional immigrants to the local governments.

10. A special two per cent surtax shall be imposed on all “guest workers” in addition to their normal tax obligations. This tax shall also be returned to local jurisdictions.

11. Any company found hiring “undocumented” workers, after the one year registration period, will be fined ten thousand dollars for each violation, and prohibited from participating in the “guest worker” program for five years.

12. Congress shall annually adjust the number of guest workers allowed into the United States.

Senator Graham, I believe that these ideas address the President’s needs and concerns, and are far better than the bill that you are currently considering. You asked for suggestions, please give ours due consideration.

Sincerely,
Chris Core
Host: WMAL Radio
4400 Jenifer St N.W.
Washington D.C. 20015

184 posted on 06/14/2007 1:49:09 PM PDT by trooprally (Never Give Up - Never Give In - Remember Our Troops)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
I fully understand the President's commitments to his core values, but he is 100% DEAD WRONG about this bill and how to handle the illegal immigration problem!

PLEASE pass word to him that his stance is roundly rejected and will be vigorously opposed not only by the vast majority of FReepers here but by the majority of the American people as well.

The President needs to stop defiling American sovereignty, open his eyes and see the problem for what it really is - a full-scale invasion of our country by people who are openly flouting the laws of our land and driving our state and federal services to the breaking point! We're sick of our politicians not doing anything concrete to fix the problem and we're not going to be silent anymore!

Mr. President - BUILD THE WALL!!
185 posted on 06/14/2007 1:52:14 PM PDT by reagan_fanatic (I'm Fred, White and Blue!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
"I would like to point out that the Secretary is authorized ... blah, blah, blah."

And I would like to point out that the Administration is full of "it".

ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS against the employers and the criminal invaders - aka ILLEGAL ALIENS, or go pound sand.

And if the Administration is not up to enforcing the LAWS, then resign dammit!

186 posted on 06/14/2007 1:52:29 PM PDT by Condor51 (Rudy makes John Kerry look like a Right Wing 'Gun Nut' Extremist)
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To: philetus

Interesting. So Thompson may not have any official connection to the White House? Either that, or he joined the WH staff in 2007, and the Staff List hasn’t been updated. If anyone’s verified Mr. Thompson’s official capacity, I’d like to know.

I’ve been pleased to read the mostly civil replies to Thompson from FReepers. With only a few notable exceptions, the replies have been well reasoned and articulated. Bravo to all involved.

However, Mr. Thompson appears to be a drive-by poster, and will likely never read, let alone respond to, these replies. I’d like to be wrong about that.


187 posted on 06/14/2007 1:53:06 PM PDT by lonevoice (It's always "Apologize to a Muslim Hour"...somewhere)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Mr. Thompson, by now, you're aware of what those of us in the blogosphere think about the Immigration Reform Bill. I don't envy your job, you were assigned to convince us that there was enforcement, now you've got to decide to tell the President just how we all feel.

Let me make it easier on you. Tell him now, so that he can drop this whole thing, or let him persist in his ignorance. Then, when we show up at rallies for people he's supporting next year in their run for office, he can be very surprised at how far we're going to go to embarass him, and anybody he campaigns with.

When they go back to find out how he was so clueless, they can either find an "I told you so" letter from you in the file, or they can make you the fall guy.

Your choice, Mr. Thompson. I'm pretty sure I know another man named Thompson who would want to know the truth.

188 posted on 06/14/2007 1:54:49 PM PDT by hunter112 (Change will happen when very good men are forced to do very bad things.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Sir, I'm guessing that your lack of responses is primarily because of the deluge of replies you've received to your posting, and not because you're practicing a hit-and-run Public Relations campaign, si?

As my Dad once said to me:
"You can sugarcoat sh** all you want, we're not biting."

189 posted on 06/14/2007 1:55:31 PM PDT by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

You posted your comment around 1:30 PM (Washington DC time), and after over 3 hours you have not responded to a single reply. This forum is all about dialogue and discussion. You will not win anyone over to your position if you post and run and refuse to engage in a conversation. “Engaging the blogosphere” does not mean posting a message and hoping that the readers will be convinced; it means posting, reading, and replying to others.


190 posted on 06/14/2007 1:55:45 PM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
We were told time and time again it's not practical to round up 20 million illegal aliens for what ever reasons.

Fact is the Federal Government is paid, and is their sworn duty to secure our borders. Period. You are not doing that, and have not done that.

In fact, those of you in D.C. have actually encouraged this lawless violent invasion.

Yet we are forced to continue to pay you and the Federal Government our tax money for a job that is not being done.

I'm just curious, if 25 million citizens decided they no longer want to pay taxes because the federal government is not doing their job, would it be impractical to round them up to? Would the government just ignore them too? Would they be given free benefits, medical care etc?

191 posted on 06/14/2007 1:55:48 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

If the president wanted, he could completely seal the borders today.
He has not done it, because he does not want to do it. That will not change by giving 12-20 million people amnesty.


192 posted on 06/14/2007 1:57:03 PM PDT by kara37
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Sir,

I am not open to any immigration reform until our borders are secure. Authorization has been given to build several hundred miles of fence. Authorization has been given to hire additional border security personnel.

Please complete your legal obligations first.

This should be the only immigration goal of the Bush administration: to secure the border.

Thank you for listening.


193 posted on 06/14/2007 1:59:30 PM PDT by kidd
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Hello, Nicholas Thompson
White House Office of Strategic Initiatives

Read this now…

"Mission accomplished," "Bring it on," "Wanted: Dead or alive," and of course, "I earned ... political capital, and now I intend to spend it," he has added "I'll see you at the bill signing,"

The "I'll see you at the bill signing” that Bush proclaims “is not dead " is too stupid for words and is making the speculation of a hidden agenda VERY credible. In fact, I, as many here, would no longer believe any theory to the contrary.

So... if the President does not pull back now and comply with the will of the people AND his own party (because they still have to answer to the voters) then there can be no other logical conclusion than the President does have a hidden agenda, it is not in the interests of American Citizens and the demonstration of total distain for the will of the people in the form of government proclamations that are not "from the consent of the governed" will cause MAJOR upheaval in the very structure of our government.

The total distain by the current administration for the will of the people in the form of government proclamations are also pointing to the exact organizations and individuals that are controlling the President. And control it is because everyone, right down to the dummies at DU can see that no matter how many times the President tries to tell everyone “this is not amnesty” no one believes him because right there in the bill IS AMNESTY!. You even spell out that it is amnesty while trying to say it is not!

..from FOX news TODAY!

The base immigration bill seeks to tighten border security, put an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants on a path to permanent residency

What is the Presidents motivation to lie?

What kind of fools are you people?

Are you inventing a new level of low in backstabbing pond scum?

Do you, or anyone among you really think ANYONE believes you any longer? This administration has not a single shred of credibility left.

You guys are soooooooo voted out.


194 posted on 06/14/2007 2:00:22 PM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: dragnet2
"If you had a traffic ticket and you paid it, you're not forever a speeder, are you?" White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said in response to questions from The Examiner.

I suppose that if you had a traffic ticket and you sped away after getting it, and you sped to the courthouse for your day in court, and then sped to the bank to withdraw the money to pay the fine, and then sped back to the courthouse, and then sped away after paying the fine you ARE STILL A SPEEDER.

195 posted on 06/14/2007 2:03:59 PM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

First, welcome to FR.

Sorry. Not buying this amnesty garbage.

Build the wall.

Enforce the laws.

Come back and talk when there’s verifiable proof of enforcement.


196 posted on 06/14/2007 2:06:21 PM PDT by 50mm (Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist - G. Carlin)
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To: dragnet2

That’s a great question and one that I would like an answer to.

How would the government respond to cities and churches who declare themselves sanctuaries to tax evaders? The same way they’ve responded to those declaring themselves sanctuaries to illegal aliens?

Laws either mean something or they don’t. Which is it?


197 posted on 06/14/2007 2:07:03 PM PDT by Nickname
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To: TLI

Nice post.

As much as right now I feel that Bush has betrayed our country with Campaign Finance and now this shamnesty stuff.

I still thank God that it isn’t Gore or Kerry...

But, at the moment, that is small comfort.


198 posted on 06/14/2007 2:10:05 PM PDT by abner (I have no tagline, therefore no identity.)
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To: philman_36
Stiffer penalties? Oh, now that makes it all sooo much better... As if any penalty would ever be paid... hahaha
199 posted on 06/14/2007 2:10:11 PM PDT by PatrickF4 ("The greatest dangers to liberty lurk...with men of zeal, well meaning, but without understanding.")
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Enforce the Law, Executive Branch.

Convict and imprison employers who break the law.

Show up at every Home Depot in the country, and deport the illegal immigrants who are standing there.

Enforce the border.

These actions are all required of you by the last “Immigration Reform” of 1986, and have never been done.

Don’t ask us to swallow another “Immigration Reform” when the enforcement of the last one NEVER OCCURRED.

We don’t trust you.

- A Former Bush Supporter.


200 posted on 06/14/2007 2:13:49 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (the Prophet said, If (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him. - HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:260])
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