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Penalty Mitigation in the Immigration Reform Bill [White House Spokesman Responds: Post #53]
Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2007 | philman_36

Posted on 06/13/2007 6:57:12 AM PDT by philman_36

This morning on Fox and Friends there was made mention that much stricter fines are in the immigration reform bill. While this is true many folks may not know about a few words that follow the language about the tougher fines. Those words make a travesty of any "fines" as they can be waved and the employer could walk away owing nothing in penalties.

Here are the words I've got a problem with...

(D) The Secretary is authorized to reduce or mitigate penalties imposed upon employers, based upon factors including, but not limited to, the employer's hiring volume, compliance history, good-faith implementation of a compliance program, participation in temporary worker program, and voluntary disclosure of violations of this subsection to the Secretary.

So while we're being told that "the penalties are tougher" we aren't being told that under some circumstances employers can face reduced or even no fine whatsoever.
At this point of time in our history America can't afford our officials not being completely truthful to us and not stating that the possibility exists for employers to potentially be let off the hook completely is simply unacceptable.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; amnestytroll; beggingforamnesty; blowbackfordubya; deafrino; duncanhunter; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; judicialbypass; nicholasthompson; noamnestyforillegals; nthompsonwhitehouse; sellouts; vampirebill; wontgetfooledagain
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To: joanie-f
Revere would be proud.
I do hope so.
My thanks for the spiritual lift. My dejection isn't quite so bad upon hearing your words.
51 posted on 06/13/2007 8:30:31 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36

Just say NO to Amnesty!! Keep calling!! It’s NOT OVER!!

U.S. Senate switchboard: (202) 224-3121

U.S. House switchboard: (202) 225-3121

White House comments: (202) 456-1111

Find your House Rep.: http://www.house.gov/writerep

Find your US Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm


52 posted on 06/13/2007 9:23:25 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Fred Thompson/John Bolton 2008)
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To: philman_36

I would like to point out that the Secretary is authorized to reduce or mitigate penalities against employers who in good faith are trying to comply with the law. Certainly, we understand that not all employers knowingly hire illegal immigrants; this will remain the case, especially before the bill’s new secure documentation requirements are fully phased in. We do not seek to wrongly penalize honest employers who unknowingly hire illegal immigrants, therefore we reserve the right to reduce or mitigate their penalties if the employer can show good faith compliance in following the law.

For those employers who do knowingly hire illegal immigrants, please know that we intend to penalize these employers strongly, and the Administration has already stepped up these penalties in the last couple of years. For example, a 2005 program, “Operation Rollback,” assessed $15,000,000 in civil fines to employers, an amount greater than the sum of administrative fines collected in the previous eight years and was the largest worksite enforcement penalty in US history. In the first quarter of FY07, criminal and civil forfeitures have totaled $26,700,000 for employers.

As a reminder of what’s in the bill, fines for hiring an illegal worker are $5,000 maximum per illegal worker for the first offense, $10,000 maximum per illegal worker for the second, $25,000 maximum per illegal worker for the third , and $75,000 maximum per illegal worker for the fourth. In addition, the bill increases the maximum criminal penalty for a pattern or practice of unlawful hiring twenty-five-fold, from $3,000 to $75,000, and would impose a prison term of up to six months. This represents a significant increase in fines for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

Nicholas Thompson
White House Office of Strategic Initiatives


53 posted on 06/14/2007 10:32:45 AM PDT by nthompsonwhitehouse
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Please tell President Bush that there is no way in Hell I'll ever support this amnesty bill.

And if it manages to pass, I'll cease supporting the Republican Party entirely.

L

54 posted on 06/14/2007 11:20:29 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing moderate islam to extremist islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

We are your base. Listen.


55 posted on 06/14/2007 11:23:29 AM PDT by HOTTIEBOY (The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

I agree with Lurker. Furthermore, the GOP is killing their own party by ignoring what the American People have been saying via fax, phone calls and letters.


56 posted on 06/14/2007 11:24:50 AM PDT by Snoopers-868th
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse; potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; dixiechick2000; Travis McGee

57 posted on 06/14/2007 11:25:21 AM PDT by devolve ( _Illegal_Aliens_Killed_25_Americans_Today _A_Mexican_Illegal_Alien_Sold_911_Terrorists_IDs_)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse


58 posted on 06/14/2007 11:26:16 AM PDT by lowbridge ("The mainstream media IS the Democratic Party." - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse; EternalVigilance; kristinn
Welcome to FR.


59 posted on 06/14/2007 11:26:24 AM PDT by gpapa
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Why exactly does the WH do all it can to not listen to will of the people who put the current administration in place? The blind ear turned to the core base is causing such a ruckus it behooves me to want to support any idea, person or position simply as a way of says, enough is enough.

Apathy in the core of the RNC should scare the heck out of the WH and any GOP contender for 08.

A little history lesson about apothetic voters in the GOP only has to go back to Perot. Unless that is the whole idea?

60 posted on 06/14/2007 11:26:39 AM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I buy gas for my SUV with the Carbon Offsets I sell on Ebay!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Agree 100% with Lurker. I will not give another dime to the republician party while this bill lives.


61 posted on 06/14/2007 11:27:32 AM PDT by Species8472 (We will never Forget !)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Thanks for the comments and the FACTS on the increase in fines on employers.
62 posted on 06/14/2007 11:28:07 AM PDT by what's up
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
In the first quarter of FY07, criminal and civil forfeitures have totaled $26,700,000 for employers.

Whoop-dee-doo! So what was the taxpayers' tab for medical care to illegal aliens in the first quarter of FY07? And for federally mandated access to public schools for the non-citizen children of illegal aliens? Care to share those figures with us (with reliable sources to back them up)?

63 posted on 06/14/2007 11:28:16 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
You guys just don’t get it. NOBODY wants this. If you really want to do something that MIGHT fly, put up the border security elements in one bill. Pass it. Wait a year. If you can demonstrate results, THEN people might want to talk about what to do with the people who are here.

You need to know that Republican offices at EVERY LEVEL of state and local government are being flooded round the clock with calls on this. If the President signs any bill like this we can all kiss goodbye the party we’ve all dedicated our lives and careers to for so many years. The backlash will be immense.

You people are killing us in “fly over country”.

64 posted on 06/14/2007 11:29:49 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan (When toilet paper is a luxury, you have achieved communism.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
You had THREE enforcement actions in 2004. I don’t think there is an employer that has a fourth offense with numbers like these. Stop blowing smoke up our butts and enforce the current laws.
65 posted on 06/14/2007 11:30:07 AM PDT by jackieaxe (This one hour pre-flight security screening is brought to you by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Anything short of deportation is AMNESTY....we don’t need more bad laws that won’t be enforced.

Light a fire under Chertoff, BUILD THE FENCE, enforce current law.

By the way, DEPORTATION is enforcing current law.


66 posted on 06/14/2007 11:30:51 AM PDT by RasterMaster (Rudy, Romney & McCain = KENNEDY wing of the Republican Party - Duncan Hunter, President 2008)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Don't you get it? We don't trust you.

The president signed a bill authorizing 10,000 new border patrol agents, Where are they?

The President signed a bill authorizing 800 miles of border fence, where is it?

The President says giving 12-20 million illegal aliens instant legal status is not amnesty. We are not that stupid.

If the President wants support for immigration reform, enforce the laws he already signed and above all, TELL THE TRUTH.

67 posted on 06/14/2007 11:31:09 AM PDT by Prokopton
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Reminds me of “Read my lips, no new taxes”. The legacy...


68 posted on 06/14/2007 11:32:01 AM PDT by Khuey (Political correctness is ALWAYS having to say you're sorry!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

FYI, we’re not all not with you...


69 posted on 06/14/2007 11:33:05 AM PDT by nicollo (All economics are politics)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Millions of Americans who supported this President twice are mad at what is being done to us. I am one of them! I don’t support this Amnesty sham one iota. Please tell your bosses that they have no credability on this bill. Build the fence, fine employers who hire illegals and then we can talk.


70 posted on 06/14/2007 11:34:07 AM PDT by cmiller623 (Mayor Antonio Villa....or never mind. Los Angeles is doomed!)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Sir, with all due respect, we were struck on 9/11/2001. The borders remain open and porous. Aside from the illegals just trying to make a living, and the drug smugglers who drive truckloads through without any concern, any terrorist can simply walk over the border carring the works for a dirty bomb and set it off in any number of major American cities.

The President's refusal to secure our borders, refusal to secure the sovereignty of this nation, and refusal to enforce the immigration laws as they exist now are, in my opinion, IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES. Why the Dems haven't pursued this yet is open to speculation.

This bill hasn't been presented to the GAO for an estimate of costs to the nation. Gee, I wonder why? Because it will cost us TRILLIONS of dollars??? Because it allows the Secretary to suspend these Fines, suspend the requirement for the illegals to leave these lands and apply for access?

How many more illegals will run for our border to get in if this were to pass? And I notice the Mexican Gov't CONTINUES to do NOTHING to assist us in preventing ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION...

In other words, sir, WHY SHOULD WE TRUST YOU?

71 posted on 06/14/2007 11:34:55 AM PDT by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

I understand that people who have been ordered deported by a court of law and have refused to leave are going to be allowed to stay.

I find that to be very insulting.

This sham of a bill is a slap in the face of all who obey our laws and have respect for a court of law.


72 posted on 06/14/2007 11:35:02 AM PDT by JRochelle
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

With all due respect, Sir, the amount you have collected in fines probably wouldn’t be enough to keep your standard L.A. County Hospital emergency room open.

President Bush needs to understand that, though he is at the end of his term, what he does will affect those around him. The future of the Republican party is at stake. We are not out here beating our collective chests because we like the sound it makes.

Uphold existing law. Secure our borders. That is all we ask. And, that is what he promised.


73 posted on 06/14/2007 11:35:04 AM PDT by mark3681
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Wecome Abroad.

Now that the formalities are done, what’s wrong with the ears in Washington?

Why can’t we get the execution of the 2004 BP agent law and the 2006 Border Fence law WITHOUT the cockamame horse exhaust we’re being handed?

Why has amnesty got to be tied to any border security provision at all?

You folk in DC really irritate the mess out of the GP when you don’t listen, when you keep making the same mistake over and over expecting different results.


74 posted on 06/14/2007 11:35:58 AM PDT by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

If the immigration laws all ready on the books aren’t enforced, what makes the administration think that this new proposed legislation will be enforced? Plus, why is new legislation needed anyway? As a Republican, a voter, and female, enforce the present laws now.


75 posted on 06/14/2007 11:36:21 AM PDT by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Mr. Thompson,

First of all, I hope you’re not going to get in trouble by FReeping at work. :)

Secondly...Tony Snow used President Reagan’s old line on Laura Ingraham this morning—”trust, but verify.” The fact is, sir, there is no way that the conservative base is going to accept this bill, because we don’t “trust” no matter how much we “verify.” We haven’t been given any reason to trust!

For six years, we haven’t seen much of anything that indicates that the Bush administration gives much of a priority to Mexican border security. A bill has been passed authorizing several hundred miles of new fence...how much has been built, sir? A few miles? Why? Why has this bill not been complied with? How many new Border Patrol agents have been hired? Why has the President not taken a harder line with President Fox (and now President Calderon) on controlling illegal immigration on HIS side of the border? What is the President planning to do about removing Federal funding from cities that refuse to cooperate with enforcement efforts against illegals?

Fact is, Mr. Thompson, poll after poll after poll is showing that the American people do not want pseudo-amnesty. We want border enforcement first, interior enforcement second, and only then, can we even think about guest worker programs or “Z-visas.” The Administration, and the Republican party, ignore this sentiment at their peril.

No comprehensive bill. Seal the border, remove the anchor baby provisions, and deport the illegals that won’t leave. Streamline the legal immigration process. THEN we can talk about letting them back in as guest workers. Not one second before.

Welcome to Free Republic.

}:-)4


76 posted on 06/14/2007 11:36:39 AM PDT by Moose4 (Effing the ineffable since 1966.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
“Operation Rollback,” assessed $15,000,000 in civil fines to employers, How much of these fines was actually collected and not forgiven for a promise not to do it again?
77 posted on 06/14/2007 11:36:46 AM PDT by B4Ranch (DRIP = "Don't Return Incumbent Politicians," – two terms, and they're out.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
“Operation Rollback,” assessed $15,000,000 in civil fines to employers,

How much of these fines was actually collected and not forgiven for a promise not to do it again?

78 posted on 06/14/2007 11:38:06 AM PDT by B4Ranch (DRIP = "Don't Return Incumbent Politicians," – two terms, and they're out.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
"....assessed $15,000,000 in civil fines to employers..."

Assessed - $15,000,000
Collected - ?

79 posted on 06/14/2007 11:38:10 AM PDT by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

And one more thing: How dare members of the GOP in the highest offices refer to us as ‘bigots’ simply because we want immigrants to follow the rules as many of our parent did?


80 posted on 06/14/2007 11:38:33 AM PDT by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1850148/posts


81 posted on 06/14/2007 11:39:38 AM PDT by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: philman_36

Any politician that supports this bill completely loses my, and my family’s, support.


82 posted on 06/14/2007 11:40:04 AM PDT by Spruce
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Tell the President this lifelong Republican who campaigned for Goldwater and Nixon and has voted for every GOP candidate since Ford, who voted for, who donated $$$, volunteered time, attended the 2nd inaugural for GW Bush, is disgusted and furious over this immigration bill. I WILL HOLD THE GOP RESPONSIBLE IF THIS MONSTER PASSES. I WILL BE DONE WITH THE PARTY IN EVERY WAY.

Tell him I am not alone. His “legacy” will be to turn the OP into the Whig Party.


83 posted on 06/14/2007 11:40:16 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
The President needs to know that a very large majority of Americans do not favor or want new legislation or new laws to address illegal immigration. We want the current laws on the books enforced.

It is abundantly clear from his statements over the last few months that he does not know the degree to which our immigration laws are being flaunted.

When Border Patrol Agents are hamstrung and kept from enforcing the law in response to people crossing our borders illegally, then there is an obvious disconnect between what is being directed from the top levels of government and what the people want.

I applaud your statements and welcome any efforts to penalize employers who hire illegals. This is merely the first step in combating the rising tide of illegal interlopers on our soil.
The next step is to let our Border Patrol Agents do their job and stop the flow. As I said previously, the President's words over the past few months would seem to indicate that he wants this flow of illegal immigrants to continue. That is the perception from this level of society. He needs to be informed...in the strongest terms possible...that We The People have had enough.

84 posted on 06/14/2007 11:40:24 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Don't question faith. Don't answer lies.)
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To: philman_36

In other words, pay no attention to the people invading the former United States of America. Why do you think limitations on guns are tightening up?


85 posted on 06/14/2007 11:40:53 AM PDT by gathersnomoss
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Thank you for taking the time to post on Free Republic. I am hopeful that we'll ultimately find a solution to the immigration dilemma and I believe that the President Bush is taking the correct approach on this issue.

I believe that it is important for us to reach out to the Hispanics while at the same time checking out the background of each illegal immigrant in the United States to make sure that they are not potential terrorists. It is also important to secure our borders by building a fence to control the flow of undocumented immigrants.

It is time to reach a conclusion in all this and President Bush is taking leadership on this vital issue even if a majority of his base is opposed to this.

That may put me in a minority view on this forum but there are few others who agree with me.

86 posted on 06/14/2007 11:40:59 AM PDT by MinorityRepublican (Everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

“Catch and release will end” (550 criminal aliens were released within the last few days after being arrested at a DelMonte plant. I bet they’ll show up to be deported.)

“We’ve passed a bill to build a fence.” (A year later- WHERE’S THE FENCE?”)

“None of the bill will go into effect until triggers are met.” (Except that 20+ million illegal aliens will be IMMEDIATELY and permanently legal after a 24 hour “background check”)

“If any illegals don’t come forward to apply for the z visa, they will be deported.” (Except that it is mandated for law enforcement to help them apply for the visa when caught AND to provide them with taxpayer funded lawyers. LEGAL immigrants have to pay for their OWN lawyers!!)

There is NOTHING that is good in this bill.

Enforce the borders NOW.
Enforce the laws NOW.
Eliminate anchor babies NOW.

Nothing else is acceptable.


87 posted on 06/14/2007 11:41:53 AM PDT by Politicalmom (No self-respecting group bent on world domination would invite Angelina Jolie to be a member.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
U.S. Border Patrol Director David Aguilar said last Wednesday, “The United States will have “operational control” of its border with Mexico by 2013.”

If this is your idea of "enforcement" then take your pleas, go back to President Bush and tell him it is unacceptable!

88 posted on 06/14/2007 11:42:04 AM PDT by B4Ranch (DRIP = "Don't Return Incumbent Politicians," – two terms, and they're out.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

Better check out this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1850240/posts
A lot of FReepers are responding to you over there.


89 posted on 06/14/2007 11:42:15 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: philman_36

Where is Bill Cardill?


90 posted on 06/14/2007 11:42:19 AM PDT by gathersnomoss
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse; Tony Snow
So, Nick, where's that wall that we were promised last year? I hear that only two miles of it has been built, which is wholly unacceptable.

Moreover, this Senate immigration bill is pure amnesty, and I don't know who y'all think you are fooling with all of this spin trying to argue otherwise. It seems to all of us Conservatives here at FR that President Bush cares more about the illegal aliens and his Mexican friends down than his own Party and this country's lawful citizens. If this Bill passes and the President signs it into law, then I'll be damned if I ever give another dime to the GOP. Please pass that along to Karl and the President.

VR

91 posted on 06/14/2007 11:42:20 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
Nick,

Next you will be telling us that the President has ordered Captain Renault to "round up the usual suspects". LOL! Just say NO to the Bush/Kennedy Shamnesty.

92 posted on 06/14/2007 11:43:44 AM PDT by Agent Smith (Fallujah delenda est. (I wish))
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To: ElkGroveDan
You are so correct. We are nothing but flyover country to them.

My 67 year old mother works for an employer who is gradually replacing his employees with illegals. When an American retires or quits, an illegal shows up to take their place.
She is an excellent worker yet her wages and raises sure don’t reflect that.
She supported Bush but let me tell you, she is totally disillusioned by him now. She is giving up on politics.

93 posted on 06/14/2007 11:44:00 AM PDT by JRochelle
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To: B4Ranch; nthompsonwhitehouse
4 sec’s B4R!

As NT says, the director of HS can mitigate those fines, they work off the high numbers when convenient to do so. It’s Capitol Hill’s “creative bookkeeping”.

IOW, it’s all just a pile of horse poop.

94 posted on 06/14/2007 11:44:36 AM PDT by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

President Bush said he has been briefed on what the Bill contains. So evidently this is what President Bush supports. Sorry, UNACCEPTABLE once more! Stop the flow of illegals then come to us with a Bill that protects our country. Not one that destroys it!
_____________________________________________________________________________

20 Loopholes in the Senate Immigration Bill

Loophole 1 – Legal Status Before Enforcement:

Amnesty benefits do not wait for the “enforcement trigger.” After filing an application and waiting 24 hours, illegal aliens will receive full “probationary benefits,” complete with the ability to legally live and work in the U.S., travel outside of the U.S. and return, and their own social security card. Astonishingly, if the trigger is never met and amnesty applications are therefore never “approved,” the probationary benefits granted to the illegal alien population never expire, and the new social security cards issued to the illegal alien population are not revoked. [See pp. 1, 290-291, & 315].

Loophole 2 – U.S. VISIT Exit Not In Trigger:

The “enforcement trigger,” required to be met before the new temporary worker program begins, does not require that the exit portion of U.S. VISIT system – the biometric border check-in/check-out system first required by Congress in 1996 that is already well past its already postponed 2005 implementation due date – to be in place before new worker or amnesty programs begin. Without the U.S. VISIT exit portion, the U.S. has no method to ensure that workers (or their visiting families) do not overstay their visas. Our current illegal population contains 4 to 5.5 million visa overstays, therefore, we know that the U.S. VISIT exit component is key to a successful new temporary worker program. [See pp. 1-2].

Loophole 3 – Trigger Requires No More Agents, Beds, or Fencing Than Current Law:

The “enforcement trigger” does not require the Department of Homeland Security to have detention space sufficient to end “catch and release” at the border and in the interior. Even after the adoption of amendment 1172, the trigger merely requires the addition of 4,000 detention beds, bringing DHS to a 31,500 bed capacity. This is far short of the 43,000 beds required under current law to be in place by the end of 2007, or the additional 20,000 beds required later in the bill. Additionally, the bill establishes a “catch, pay, and release” program. This policy will benefit illegal aliens from countries other than Mexico that are caught at the border, then can post a $5,000 bond, be released and never show up for deportation hearings. Annual failure to appear rates for 2005 and 2006, caused in part by lack of detention space, doubled the 2004 rate (106,000 – 110,000 compared with 54,000). Claims that the bill “expands fencing” are inaccurate. The bill only requires 370 miles of fencing to be completed, while current law already mandates that more than 700 miles be constructed [See pp. 1-2, & 10-11, and EOIR’s FY2006 Statistical Yearbook, p. H2, and The Secure Fence Act of 2004].

Loophole 4 — Three Additional Years Worth of Illegal Aliens Granted Status, Treated Preferentially To Legal Filers:

Aliens who broke into the country illegally a mere 5 months ago, are treated better than foreign nationals who legally applied to come to the U.S. more than two years ago. Aliens who can prove they were illegally in the U.S. on January 1, 2007, are immediately eligible to apply from inside the U.S. for amnesty benefits, while foreign nationals that filed applications to come to the U.S. after May 1, 2005 must start the application process over again from their home countries. Last year’s bill required illegal aliens to have been here before January 7, 2004 to qualify for permanent legal status. [See pp. 263, 282, & 306].

Loophole 5 – Completion of Background Checks Not Required For Probationary Legal Status:

Legal status must be granted to illegal aliens 24 hours after they file an application, even if the aliens have not yet “passed all appropriate background checks.” (Last year’s bill gave DHS 90 days to check an alien’s background before any status was granted). No legal status should be given to any illegal alien until all appropriate background checks are complete. [See pp. 290].

Loophole 6 – Some Child Molesters Are Still Eligible:

Some aggravated felons – those who have sexually abused a minor – are eligible for amnesty. A child molester who committed the crime before the bill is enacted is not barred from getting amnesty if their conviction document omitted the age of the victim. The bill corrects this loophole for future child molesters, but does not close the loophole for current or past convictions. [See p. 47: 30-33, & p. 48: 1-2]

Loophole 7 – Terrorism Connections Allowed, Good Moral Character Not Required:

Illegal aliens with terrorism connections are not barred from getting amnesty. An illegal alien seeking most immigration benefits must show “good moral character.” Last year’s bill specifically barred aliens with terrorism connections from having “good moral character” and being eligible for amnesty. This year’s bill does neither. Additionally, bill drafters ignored the Administration’s request that changes be made to the asylum, cancellation of removal, and withholding of removal statutes in order to prevent aliens with terrorist connections from receiving relief. [Compare §204 in S. 2611 from the 109th Congress with missing §204 on p. 48 of S.A. 1150, & see missing subsection (5) on p. 287 of S.A. 1150].

Loophole 8 – Gang Members Are Eligible:

Instead of ensuring that members of violent gangs such as MS 13 are deported after coming out of the shadows to apply for amnesty, the bill will allow violent gang members to get amnesty as long as they “renounce” their gang membership on their application. [See p. 289: 34-36].

Loophole 9 – Absconders Are Eligible:

Aliens who have already had their day in court – those subject to final orders of removal, voluntary departure orders, or reinstatement of their final orders of removal – are eligible for amnesty under the bill. The same is true for aliens who have made a false claim to citizenship or engaged in document fraud. More than 636,000 alien fugitives could be covered by this loophole. [See p. 285:19-22 which waives the following inadmissibility grounds: failure to attend a removal proceeding; final orders of removal for alien smuggling; aliens unlawfully present after previous immigration violations or deportation orders; and aliens previously removed. This appears to conflict with language on p. 283:40-41. When a direct conflict appears in a statute, the statue is interpreted by the courts to the benefit of the alien.].

Loophole 10 – Learning English Not Required For A Decade:

Illegal aliens are not required to demonstrate any proficiency in English for more than a decade after they are granted amnesty. Learning English is not required for an illegal alien to receive probationary benefits, the first 4-year Z visa, or the second 4-year Z visa. The first Z visa renewal (the second 4-year Z visa) requires only that the alien demonstrate an “attempt” to learn English by being “on a waiting list for English classes.” Passing a basic English test is required only for a second Z visa renewal (the third 4-year Z visa), and even then the alien only has to pass the test “prior to the expiration of the second extension of Z status” (12 years down the road). [See pp. 295-296].

Loophole 11 – Earned Income Tax Credit Will Cost Taxpayers Billions In Just 10 Years:

Current illegal aliens and new guest workers will be eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit, a refundable tax credit designed to encourage American citizens and legal permanent residents to work. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that this loophole will cost the U.S. taxpayer up to $20 billion dollars in just the first 10 years after the bill’s enactment. To be consistent with the intent of the 1996 welfare reforms – which limited new immigrants from receiving public benefits until they had been legal permanent residents for five years – the bill should withhold EITC eligibility from amnestied aliens until they become legal permanent residents. Closing this loophole will save the taxpayers billions of dollars. [See p. 293 after S.A. 1190 was adopted, p. 307, p. 315, §606. All that is required for EITC eligibility is a social security number and resident alien status. Nothing in the bill’s tax provisions limit EITC eligibility. The issuance of social security numbers to aliens as soon as they apply for amnesty will ensure they are able to qualify for the EITC.]

Loophole 12 – Affidavits From Friends Accepted As Evidence:

Records from day-labor centers, labor unions, and “sworn declarations” from any non-relative (acquaintances, friends, coworkers, etc) are to be accepted as evidence that the illegal alien has satisfied the bill’s amnesty requirements. This low burden of proof will invite fraud and more illegal immigration – even aliens who are not yet in the U.S. will likely meet this burden of proof. DHS will not have the resources to examine whether the claims contained in the “sworn declarations” of the alien’s friends (that the alien was here prior to January 1, 2007 and is currently employed) are actually valid. [See p. 293: 13-16].

Loophole 13 – Taxpayer Funded Legal Counsel and Arbitration:

Free legal counsel and the fees and expenses of arbitrators will be provided to aliens that have been working illegally in agriculture. The U.S. taxpayer will fund the attorneys that help these individuals fill out their amnesty applications. Additionally, if these individuals have a dispute with their employer over whether they were fired for “just cause,” DHS will “pay the fee and expenses of the arbitrator.” [See p. 339:37-41, & p. 332: 37-38.]

Loophole 14 – In-State Tuition and Student Loans:

In-state tuition and other higher education benefits, such as Stafford Loans, will be made available to current illegal aliens that are granted initial “probationary” status, even if the same in-state tuition rates are not offered to all U.S. citizens. This would normally violate current law (8 U.S.C. §1623) which mandates that educational institutions give citizens the same postsecondary education benefits they offer to illegal aliens. [See p. 321: 8-31].

Loophole 15 – Inadequacy of the Merit System:

The “merit system,” designed to shift the U.S. green card distribution system to attract higher skilled workers that benefit the national interest, is only a shell of what it should have been. Though the merit system begins immediately, it will not increase the percentage of high skilled immigrants coming to the United States until 2016, 8 years after enactment. Of the 247,000 green cards dedicated to the merit based system each year for the first 5 years, 100,000 green cards will be reserved for low-skilled guest workers (10,000) and for clearing the current employment based green card backlog (90,000). From 2013 to 2015, the number of merit based green cards drops to 140,000, and of that number, 100,000 green cards are still reserved each year for low-skilled guest workers (10,000) and for clearing the current employment based green card backlog (90,000). Even after 2015, when the merit system really begins (in 2016) by having 380,000 green cards annually, 10,00 green cards will be reserved specifically for low skilled workers, and points will be given for many characteristics that are not considered “high-skilled.” For example, 16 points will be given for aliens in “high demand occupations” which includes janitors, maids, food preparation workers, and groundskeepers. [See p.260: 25 – p. 261: 20, p. 262, & The Department of Labor’s list of “occupations with the largest job growth” available at www.bls.gov/emp/emptab3.htm].

Loophole 16 – Visas For Individuals That Plan To Overstay:

The new “parent” visa contained in the bill which allows parents of citizens, and the spouses and children of new temporary workers, to visit a worker in the United States is not only a misnomer, but also an invitation for high rates of visa overstays. This new visa specifically allows the spouse and children of new temporary workers who intend to abandon their residence in a foreign country, to qualify to come to the U.S. to “visit.” The visa requires only a $1,000 bond, which will be forfeited when, not if, family members of new temporary workers decide to overstay their 30 day visit. Workers should travel to their home countries to visit their families, not the other way around. [See p. 277:1 – 33, and p. 276: 38-43].

Loophole 17 – Chain Migration Tippled Before Being Eliminated:

Though the bill will eventually eliminate chain migration (relatives other than spouses and children of citizens and legal permanent residents), it will not have full effect until 2016. Until then, chain migration into the U.S. will actually triple, from approximately 138,000 chain migrants a year (equal to 14% of the 1 million green cards the U.S. currently distributes on an annual basis) to approximately 440,000 chain migrants a year (equal to 45% of the 1 million green cards the U.S. currently distributes on an annual basis). [See pp. 260:13, p. 270: 29 – pp. 271: 17]

Loophole 18 – Back Taxes Not Required:

Last year’s bill required illegal aliens to prove they had paid three of their last five years of taxes to get amnesty. This year, payment of back taxes is not required for amnesty. The bill requires taxes to be paid at the time of application for a green card, but at that time, only proof of payment of Federal taxes (not state and local) is required for the years the alien worked on a Z visa, not the years the alien has already worked illegally in the United States. Though Senator McCain’s S.A. 1190, adopted by voice vote, claimed to “require undocumented immigrants receiving legal status to pay owed back taxes,” the amendment actually only required proof of payment of taxes for “any year during the period of employment required by subparagraph (D)(i).” Since the bill does not contain a subparagraph (D)(i), nor require any past years of employment as a prerequisite for amnesty, the amendment essentially only requires proof of payment of taxes for future work in the U.S., not payment of “back taxes.” [See p. 307, and p. 293 as altered by S.A. 1190, amendment p. 2: 19-20.]

Loophole 19 – Social Security Credits Allowed For Some Illegal Work Histories:

Aliens who came to the U.S. on legal visas, but overstayed their visas and have been working in the U.S. for years, as well as illegal aliens who apply for Z visa status but do not qualify, will be able to collect social security credits for the years they worked illegally. Under the bill, if an alien was ever issued a social security account number – all work-authorized aliens who originally came on legal visas receive these – the alien will receive Social Security credits for any “quarters of coverage” the alien worked after receiving their social security account number. Because the bill requires social security account numbers to be issued “promptly” to illegal aliens as soon as they are granted “any probationary benefits based upon application [for Z status]” (these benefits are granted 24 hours after the application is filed), an illegal alien who is denied Z visa status but continues to work illegally in the U.S. will accumulate Social Security credits. [See pp. 316:8 – 16, and pp. 315: 32-39]

Loophole 20 – Criminal Fines Not Proportional To Conduct:

The criminal fines an illegal alien is required to pay to receive amnesty are less than the bill’s criminal fines for paperwork violations committed by U.S. citizens, and can be paid by installment. Under the bill, an illegal alien must pay a $1,000 criminal fine to apply for a Z visa, and a $4,000 fine to apply for a green card. Eighty percent of those fines can be paid on an installment plan. Under the bill’s confidentiality provisions, someone who improperly handles or uses information on an alien’s amnesty application can be fined $10,000. Administration officials suggest that the bill’s “criminal fines are proportionate to the criminal conduct.” Why, then, is the fine for illegally entering, using false documents to work, and live one-tenth the fine for a paperwork violation committed by a government official? [See p. 287: 34, p. 317: 9, p. 315:6-8, & remarks made by Secretary Gutierrez on Your World with Neil Cavuto, 4:00 May 31, 2007]


95 posted on 06/14/2007 11:46:19 AM PDT by B4Ranch (DRIP = "Don't Return Incumbent Politicians," – two terms, and they're out.)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse

What put the tin hat on this for many of us Freepers was Sen. Graham calling us bigots. Sheesh.


96 posted on 06/14/2007 11:47:19 AM PDT by Pharmboy ([She turned me into a] Newt! in '08)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
How in the world do you guy's think...an illegal alien from south of the border is going to obey NEW LAWS...when their FIRST act here was illegal?

ENFORCE THE LAWS THAT WE ALREADY HAVE.

DO THE THINGS YOU'VE ALREADY PROMISED.

You all ought to get it...but some reason you are tone deaf to this...but the GOP will be toast if this ever goes down.

Probably hollering down a well here........but that's my 2 cents worth.

FWIW-

P.S. Read my tag line.....We don't TRUST YOU!

97 posted on 06/14/2007 11:50:11 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Ignore the Propaganda.....Focus on what you see...........)
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To: nthompsonwhitehouse
That's all fine & dandy. However, you still need to answer all of the following questions:

1. Why do you want to punish law-abiding immigrants? Isn't it true that the bill forces applicants who have applied for legal entry since May 05 to start the long & grueling process over again? Doesn't that encourage illegal entry & disscourage following the legal process? What will you do to eliminate this unfair & unwise provision? What do you tell my family, who has advised their family members to go the legal route?

2. Why do you want to reward crime (above & beyond immigration crimes)? Isn't it true that the bill has no teeth regarding payment of back taxes? Isn't it true the bill ignores any previous deportation orders and those who ignore them? Isn't it true the bill does not have a reliable way of keeping conviceted child molesters from gaining residence? Isn't it true that gang members only need to sign a peice of paper to "prove" they renounce their gang membership? Isn't it true that felonies like identity theft, crimes against property and violent crimes do not disqualify applicants?

Why do you want to limit law enforcement's ability to cope with the immigration problem?. Isn't it true that the bill grants unending, unrevokable residence within 24 hours, even if the background check can't be completed? If you can't round up 12 million illegals over 4-5 years, what in heavens makes you think you can do 12 million thorough background checks in a month or two? Why do you only require 370 miles of fence to be completed, instead of the 700 already required by law? Why do you only require 4000 additional detention beds, instead of the 43,000 already required by law? Why do you not require the "VISIT" border biometric system to be in place, as is already required by law?

You punish the law-abiding to placate criminals. You provide an incentive to ignore laws and to instead break the law. You take the teeth out of existing law enforcement mandates. And you ignore felonies and violent crimes. And you say this isn't amnesty? SO I guess according to you I'm not only a racist, but I'm also an idiot.

98 posted on 06/14/2007 11:51:23 AM PDT by sanchmo
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To: philman_36

There are so many loopholes in the bill you can run a truck through them.


99 posted on 06/14/2007 11:52:07 AM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: philman_36
Total BS! I don't believe it! There have been laws on the books that he didn't enforce, so why would we think he is going to enforce anything now? The ONLY reason he is saying this now is so that we will think he is serious! I don't buy it!

It goes a lot deeper than this. What about our border agents who were sent to prison and the Mexican President, Jorge Boosh hasn't pardoned them? I'm sorry. I don't believe a word he says now. He stopped being President of the United States of America when he started favoring Mexicans over us!

I resent being called a "bigot" or told that I am "unAmeican", or "unpatriotic" because I don't want a third world hell hole like Mexico taking over our country. I worked my butt off for him twice and got people signed up to vote for him, and he has turned his back on all of us. Do you know how I feel, after I promised people that Bush was the right choice for America? They don't believe me now, and they will NEVER vote for another Republican. IF Shamnesty passes, I won't be voting Republican again either.

ENFORCE THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS! NO SHAMNESTY! DEPORT BUSH WITH THE ILLEGALS!

100 posted on 06/14/2007 11:54:02 AM PDT by NRA2BFree ("The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves!")
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