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US proposes withdrawal from Kosovo, report (What the..???)
http://www.serbianna.com/news/2007/01906.shtml ^

Posted on 06/27/2007 2:01:15 PM PDT by kronos77

June 27, 2007 -- In a statement for the Serbian news agency, Tanjug, Serbian Prime Minister's Advisor Srdjan Djuric said that the government has received a proposal from the US Ambassador to Serbia, Michael Polt, in which the "US would withdraw from Kosovo".

"Serbian Government has for the first time heard a new interesting proposal presented by American Ambassador Michael Polt, that the US would withdraw from Kosovo along with the simultaneous American accepting of Kosovo remaining an integral part of Serbia,” said Djuric.

"Serbian Government is ready to talk with American officials on the presented proposal,” added Djuric.

American Ambassador Polt has not confirmed nor denied Djuric's statement.

RTS/Tanjug/UNMIK/


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: balkans; islam; kosovo; serbia; terror
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1 posted on 06/27/2007 2:01:18 PM PDT by kronos77
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To: kronos77

Maybe someone finally realized that an independent Kosovo would quickly become a jihadist state; a European version of Gaza.


2 posted on 06/27/2007 2:03:02 PM PDT by JamesP81 (Romans 10:9)
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; ...
This news was said on air on Serbian national TV yesterday. Newer commented or denied by US Embassy.
I'm puzzled..
3 posted on 06/27/2007 2:03:15 PM PDT by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: kronos77

If this is true, it’s the first good news on Kosovo since clinton (with plenty of help and egging on from Blair and Schroeder), fought on the wrong side.

I hope it’s confirmed.


4 posted on 06/27/2007 2:05:42 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: kronos77
Ok with me.

Interestingly, if this were to happen it would not lead to a media chorus insisting that it means we "lost" in Kosovo. Nobody would equate a later withdrawal with "losing" the earlier war.

The same is not true in Iraq. If/when our troops exit, everyone will insist it means we "lost" "The Iraq War".

What is the difference, you ask? I mean, besides the letters that go after the names of the respective Presidents who initiated these hostilities? Well... there is none.

5 posted on 06/27/2007 2:05:51 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: kronos77

Do I misremember or did not Clinton say that we would only be there a few months?

The place is a quagmire. Get out. Oh, thats right, the facts do not apply to democrat presidents.


6 posted on 06/27/2007 2:16:03 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: kronos77
"Many members of the Security Council and a majority of European Union nations" now support a new round of talks without a predetermined outcome, De Gucht said after meeting with his Serbian counterpart Vuk Jeremic. He said the new talks should last four months.

De Gucht is Belgium's foreign minister

7 posted on 06/27/2007 2:18:48 PM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: kronos77

the US will not withdraw....as per murtha...the US will redploy!!!! maybe these troops should redeploy to the US-meixcan border???


8 posted on 06/27/2007 2:21:10 PM PDT by nyyankeefan
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To: kronos77

Who’s hiding those Crusade outfits???


9 posted on 06/27/2007 2:21:38 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: kronos77
that the US would withdraw from Kosovo along with the simultaneous American accepting of Kosovo remaining an integral part of Serbia,” said Djuric.

sounds good to me, if Serbia remains in control

10 posted on 06/27/2007 2:22:50 PM PDT by Fitzcarraldo (Skip the Moon, go for Mars)
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To: eleni121

When the outcome’s predetermined, what’s to talk?


11 posted on 06/27/2007 2:23:23 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: gcruse

Nothing human caused is predetermined.


12 posted on 06/27/2007 2:26:54 PM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: kronos77

Like Agim Ceku’s “assasination” a couple years back, too good to be true.


13 posted on 06/27/2007 2:27:06 PM PDT by serbami68
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To: kronos77

I don’t believe this for a minute. Wait for the traitors from the State Dept. to chime in.


14 posted on 06/27/2007 2:29:04 PM PDT by montag813
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To: Dr. Frank fan
What is the difference, you ask? I mean, besides the letters that go after the names of the respective Presidents who initiated these hostilities? Well... there is none.

3,500 dead American servicemen. That's the difference.

There's plenty to argue about both conflicts, but to say that Kosovo was "won" in the same sense Iraq was "won" is simply delusional.

15 posted on 06/27/2007 2:31:47 PM PDT by ReignOfError (`)
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To: kronos77
Yes, but what about NATO? Doesn't mean that the US wouldn't act through NATO, like Clinton did.

This likely going to bust loose very soon --maybe the next day or two. That group of Serb young people who went to Kosovo to re-enact The Battle of Kosovo on Vidovdan -- NATO says it is going to stop them The media is already calling these "re-enactors", "paramilitary".

16 posted on 06/27/2007 2:32:12 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: eleni121

I was referring to this oddity...

“now support a new round of talks without a predetermined outcome”


17 posted on 06/27/2007 2:35:06 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Bokababe

IT may turn out NOT to be a re-enactment.. Lord help those Serbian kids, please.


18 posted on 06/27/2007 2:45:44 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (Hello again... for awhile...)
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To: ReignOfError
3,500 dead American servicemen. That's the difference.

That's a difference in cost but it doesn't pertain to whether we won/lost.

There's plenty to argue about both conflicts, but to say that Kosovo was "won" in the same sense Iraq was "won" is simply delusional.

If one was won, why wasn't the other? Or maybe you think neither was won (which would be a defensible claim I suppose).

19 posted on 06/27/2007 2:49:03 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: gcruse

It may be odd but it’s certainly new.

And I’m not buying it yet, nope.


20 posted on 06/27/2007 2:51:13 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: All

Note: The following text is a quote:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/06/20070622-9.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
June 22, 2007

Notice: Continuation of the National Emergency with Respect to the Western Balkans

White House News

On June 26, 2001, by Executive Order 13219, I declared a national emergency with respect to the Western Balkans pursuant to the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701-1706) to deal with the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States constituted by the actions of persons engaged in, or assisting, sponsoring, or supporting (i) extremist violence in the Republic of Macedonia and elsewhere in the Western Balkans region, or (ii) acts obstructing implementation of the Dayton Accords in Bosnia or United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244 of June 10, 1999, in Kosovo. I subsequently amended that order in Executive Order 13304 of May 28, 2003.

Because the actions of persons threatening the peace and international stabilization efforts in the Western Balkans continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, the national emergency declared on June 26, 2001, and the measures adopted on that date and thereafter to deal with that emergency, must continue in effect beyond June 26, 2007. Therefore, in accordance with section 202(d) of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622(d)), I am continuing for 1 year the national emergency with respect to the Western Balkans.

This notice shall be published in the Federal Register and transmitted to the Congress.

GEORGE W. BUSH

THE WHITE HOUSE,

June 22, 2007.

# # #


21 posted on 06/27/2007 2:52:24 PM PDT by Cindy
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To: kronos77
We have heard this today. Two days ago we hear usual defenders on staying the course in Iraq talking about getting out.

I wonder if this is a preparation for a bigger objective.

22 posted on 06/27/2007 2:57:00 PM PDT by dforest (Fighting the new liberal Conservatism. The Left foot in the GOP door.)
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To: gcruse

US-UK idea was new UN SEC resolution calling on new talks that will en within 120 days and if no compromise is achieved, they would grant independance to Muslims in Kosovo.

So all Muslims should do is not to talk at all and they would get what they want.

Idiotical, but true, that was proposal of US and UK...

Rusia rejected.


23 posted on 06/27/2007 2:57:50 PM PDT by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: Cindy

Whats that!?


24 posted on 06/27/2007 3:00:01 PM PDT by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: kronos77

It’s a notice from the WhiteHouse News.

It’s an fyi only.

The way I read it, there’s nothing about
leaving Kosovo there.


25 posted on 06/27/2007 3:02:22 PM PDT by Cindy
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To: Cindy

Phieeeewww...
And I was worried that US declared war to US over Muslims... again...
LOL:)

But, this is Balkans, only thing for sure is that nothing is for sure...


26 posted on 06/27/2007 3:04:12 PM PDT by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: Cindy

Who is threatening the USA in the Balkans??? Albanians/KLA are our friends... SARCASM OFF!


27 posted on 06/27/2007 3:06:03 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (Hello again... for awhile...)
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To: kronos77

WHAT?


28 posted on 06/27/2007 3:06:44 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (Hello again... for awhile...)
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To: gcruse

I was referring to this oddity...

“now support a new round of talks without a predetermined outcome”


Why an oddity? Things are in flux... good.

NO more predetermined Ahtisary plan in effect. Good.


29 posted on 06/27/2007 3:08:07 PM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: kronos77
"I declared a national emergency with respect to the Western Balkans pursuant to the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701-1706) to deal with the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States constituted by the actions of persons engaged in, or assisting, sponsoring, or supporting (i) extremist violence in the Republic of Macedonia and elsewhere in the Western Balkans region, or (ii) acts obstructing implementation of the Dayton Accords in Bosnia or United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244 of June 10, 1999, in Kosovo.

Does this mean old Georgie porgy is going to FINALLY respect UN Resolution 1244????

Or what?

30 posted on 06/27/2007 3:10:52 PM PDT by Lion in Winter (Hello again... for awhile...)
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To: Cindy
"....acts obstructing implementation of the Dayton Accords in Bosnia or United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244 of June 10, 1999, in Kosovo. I subsequently amended that order in Executive Order 13304 of May 28, 2003."

The truly weird part of this is that the US is the one trying to commit "acts obstructing implementation of ... United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244"

UN Resolution 1244 says that "Serbia retains sovereignty over Kosovo" -- and yet Bush, Rice and Lantos have all been saying that Kosovo independence is a done deal! So does that mean that Bush, Rice and Lantos are all "threats to US security & foreign policy"? I think that it does!

31 posted on 06/27/2007 3:12:34 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Lion in Winter

If any witdrawal of US troops happens, that could be ground for it.
“Respecting 1244 resolution”

But, who knowns.


32 posted on 06/27/2007 3:12:40 PM PDT by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: eleni121

The fact the article says these talks will not have predetermined ends points to the thought that having talks with predteremined ends negates the point of having talks at all and makes me wonder why they put that phrase in there unless previous meetings were shams.


33 posted on 06/27/2007 3:17:38 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Dr. Frank fan
3,500 dead American servicemen. That's the difference.

That's a difference in cost but it doesn't pertain to whether we won/lost.

When they aren't shooting at us any more, we've won. When they're still shooting, it's a work in progress and no one has won yet. It ain't rocket surgery.

34 posted on 06/27/2007 3:25:02 PM PDT by ReignOfError (`)
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To: kronos77

Bush’s welcome recently probably affected this.


35 posted on 06/27/2007 3:31:21 PM PDT by PeterFinn
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To: PeterFinn
Where is our favourite Jihadist HOPLITE on this topic ???
Maybe he didnt believe me when I told him last that Kosovo will not get independance and will stay Serbian !!!
36 posted on 06/27/2007 3:41:36 PM PDT by Aussie123
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To: ReignOfError
When they aren't shooting at us any more, we've won. When they're still shooting, it's a work in progress and no one has won yet.

This is a dumb standard of victory according to which anyone can "prove we haven't won" at any time by picking up a gun and pointlessly firing in the general direction of a U.S. soldier. According to this standard of victory, we didn't defeat in Japan in 1945.

37 posted on 06/27/2007 3:59:25 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: ReignOfError
It ain't rocket surgery.

You mean rocket science? The irony of that comment was amusing.
38 posted on 06/27/2007 4:03:05 PM PDT by G8 Diplomat (Senators suck...the ones in Washington and on Ottawa's NHL team)
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To: G8 Diplomat

I think the comment was on purpose.


39 posted on 06/27/2007 4:09:47 PM PDT by Kaylee Frye
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To: Dr. Frank fan
When they aren't shooting at us any more, we've won. When they're still shooting, it's a work in progress and no one has won yet.

This is a dumb standard of victory according to which anyone can "prove we haven't won" at any time by picking up a gun and pointlessly firing in the general direction of a U.S. soldier. According to this standard of victory, we didn't defeat in Japan in 1945.

Hardly the same as what is occurring in Iraq... I think anyone who doesn’t have an agenda to push can see the difference between multiple firefights/deaths/injuries every day and one crazed lunatic shooting at someone.

40 posted on 06/27/2007 4:25:38 PM PDT by Kaylee Frye
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To: Kaylee Frye
Hardly the same as what is occurring in Iraq... I think anyone who doesn’t have an agenda to push can see the difference between multiple firefights/deaths/injuries every day and one crazed lunatic shooting at someone.

Surely there's a difference of degree, but notice, that difference is unimportant to ReignOfError's definition of victory. Which is (therefore) a silly definition. Which was my point.

41 posted on 06/27/2007 4:58:55 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: kronos77
This POS Polt is a has-been. He is leaving Serbia anytime soon and he is trying to get himself newsworthy.

Hopefully, the progression of horrible diplomats sent to Belgrade, from Zimmerman to Polt will stop, and decent person will represent American interests.

With Polt, relations have hit rock bottom.

42 posted on 06/27/2007 5:23:57 PM PDT by DTA
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To: Dr. Frank fan

What’s your definition of victory that does not include the war being over?


43 posted on 06/27/2007 6:49:29 PM PDT by ReignOfError (`)
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To: G8 Diplomat
It ain't rocket surgery.

You mean rocket science? The irony of that comment was amusing.

It's a joke. A blending of rocket science and brain surgery.

44 posted on 06/27/2007 6:52:29 PM PDT by ReignOfError (`)
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To: ReignOfError
What’s your definition of victory that does not include the war being over?

When we're talking about a war to oust an enemy government (which is what, I remind you, the purpose of "The Iraq War" was), and in the course of the war in question our military has succesfully invaded the other country, decimated or scattered their military into nonexistence, occupied their capital city, destroyed their ruling regime, captured their former dictator who has since been executed, and engineered the creation and ratification of a new constitutional government, then I consider that the war is over.

Scattered (and strategically pointless, if not utterly nihilistic) postwar violence during the reconstruction/counterinsurgency phase doesn't add up to "the war isn't over" in my book. It adds up to us being in a (particularly messy) reconstruction/counterinsurgency. Different ball of wax. At the very least I wish we could acknowledge that (if it's a "war") it's a different war than the 2003 war against the Hussein government of Iraq, for crying out loud.

The problem with rejecting what I've just stated above (as I am sure you will) is that otherwise you can never really say ANY war is "over". Any the-war-is-over verdict can be instantaneously overturned by someone in the location in question being randomly violent. And that's silly.

To try to bring it back to the original topic: Is the Serbia war "over"? By the standards people seem to apply to "The Iraq War", I have to say the answer is no. There is still sectarian/ethnic violence in Serbia after all. (Isn't there? Has ALL ethnic violence in Serbia ceased? forever?) So who says that war is "over"? If you're consistent, you can't. But if you're consistent, you almost can't call any war "over" - as long as someone, somewhere in the country in question, is being violent. Which is indication of nothing if not having a bizarre, silly standard for when a war is "over", or "won". Which most people in the West now do, it seems.

45 posted on 06/27/2007 7:11:35 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: DTA

When you engage in a debate with 15-year-old high school students in Belgrade and lose, it’s time to go home, IMHO.


46 posted on 06/27/2007 8:19:35 PM PDT by Banat (DEO + REGI + PATRIAE | In Hoc Signo Vinces)
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To: Dr. Frank fan
>>What’s your definition of victory that does not include the war being over?

When we're talking about a war to oust an enemy government (which is what, I remind you, the purpose of "The Iraq War" was), and in the course of the war in question our military has succesfully invaded the other country, decimated or scattered their military into nonexistence, occupied their capital city, destroyed their ruling regime, captured their former dictator who has since been executed, and engineered the creation and ratification of a new constitutional government, then I consider that the war is over.

The problem is that the Iraqi military wasn't "decimated ... or scattered into non-existence." It was scattered into a decentralized guerilla army. We're not talking about a stand-up war followed by isolated attacks -- we're talking about a concerted effort at asymmetrical warfare that began before the tanks reached Baghdad, before the statue was pulled down, and has continued unabated without pause -- in fact, has accelerated -- since.

What you're trying to do, in the 27th inning, is claim that the game ended in the 9th and we're playing another game now. There was no instrument of surrender, no pause in the fighting, in either Iraq or Afghanistan. This is not your father's kind of war, when we used to go to war with entities we recognized as states, and sometimes even declared it.

The problem with rejecting what I've just stated above (as I am sure you will) is that otherwise you can never really say ANY war is "over". Any the-war-is-over verdict can be instantaneously overturned by someone in the location in question being randomly violent. And that's silly.

Isolated acts of violence do not constitute a continued state of war. Yankees and black folks have been killed somewhere in the South every week, if not every day, since 1865; that does not constitute an ongoing Civil War. Ongoing and escalating violence does.

47 posted on 06/27/2007 10:55:23 PM PDT by ReignOfError (`)
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To: ReignOfError
The problem is that the Iraqi military wasn't "decimated ... or scattered into non-existence." It was scattered into a decentralized guerilla army.

Some members of the Iraqi military have done this (you don't know what percentage). Some members of the Japanese military hid out on islands after 1945 and waited for further orders. In neither case does this fact mean "we didn't win".

It's also a mistake to equate/ascribe the entirety of the postwar insurgency as coming from the former Iraqi military/establishment. Al Qaeda has something to do with it. Former infiltrators have something to do with it. And militias such as Sadr's have something to do with it.

Like I said: not the same war. It's not even the same enemy for pete's sake. Are you really trying to say that it is?

There was no instrument of surrender, no pause in the fighting, in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

No. Instead, "all" we did was to unseat and destroy the extant governments against whom these wars were fought, and then proceed to occupy the countries in question at will, where we have stayed in large numbers for 4+ years in each case.

In 99% of human history this would have been recognized as victory for us and defeat for them. It's certainly bizarre, by historical standards, that many Americans think we have somehow lost "The Iraq War". Do Iraqi troops occupy Washington DC? Was the American government destroyed and a new one engineered by Iraq? Was George Bush captured and killed? Or were these things the other way around?

Most people plucked from history and looking at the situation objectively would have recognized the result for what it is. For some reason (I blame Hollywood movies, basically), we are unable to.

This is not your father's kind of war, when we used to go to war with entities we recognized as states, and sometimes even declared it.

Indeed. Precisely why it's silly to have the same expectations regarding what victory must look like (parades, smooches, "and they all lived happily ever after", the credits roll, etc.)

Isolated acts of violence do not constitute a continued state of war.

Where can you draw this line, objectively? What's "isolated" and what's not? There is no objective way to say.

Yankees and black folks have been killed somewhere in the South every week, if not every day, since 1865; that does not constitute an ongoing Civil War. Ongoing and escalating violence does.

If ongoing and escalating violence constitutes an ongoing Civil War, then why hasn't the Civil War continued (at the very least, off and on) since 1865? Surely the violence is "ongoing" (it's not? you just got through saying it is, in the previous sentence). And surely there have been periods when it was in escalation (look at any graph, of anything quasi-random, and you will see peaks and valleys. Well, the peaks are escalations.)

Just to be clear, I don't think the Civil War never ended, of course. But I don't see how one can necessarily declare it "over" if one uses the same standards we all now apply to "The Iraq War".

48 posted on 06/28/2007 6:51:24 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: kronos77
This is far to rational to have come from the Bush administration. Just a couple of weeks ago Bush was promising Kosovo to the Albainians in Albania. Bush is too insane to have approved leaving Kosovo. I am sure he won’t be happy until Kosovo is another terrorist hell hole like the Gaza strip.
49 posted on 06/28/2007 7:14:27 AM PDT by monday
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To: kronos77
Koštunica: Serbia, U.S. wage new Kosovo battle

28 June 2007 | 11:02 -> 15:44 | Source: FoNet, Beta

BELGRADE -- Vojislav Koštunica says that a battle for Kosovo between Serbia and U.S. is on display for the whole world to see.

The Serbian prime minister said that on one side of this "battle" was the foreign authority of a world power, and on the other was Serbia, which insists on its legal rights. Koštunica added that the battle was "between power and justice."

He said that Kosovo cannot become independent unless the Serbian Constitution states that it is no longer Serbian territory.

Koštunica also said that Belgrade had firm faith that Russia will not allow the United Nations Security Council "to steal a sovereign country's territory."

“This is why it would be extremely important for the countries who are ignoring Serbia's right to maintain its territory to refrain from trying to undermine the authority of the UN Security Council."

"The solution for the Kosovo status issue must be found within the UN Security Council in accordance with the UN Charter and the Serbian Constitution,” Koštunica told daily Politika, adding that this would mean a “victory of justice over force.”

Polt: No battle

U.S. Ambassador to Serbia Michael Polt said Thursday the United States was a friend of Serbia and had no intention of engaging in any kind of battle with Serbia or its citizens.

“There is no battle, fight or anger between the two countries, there are simply differences of opinion over some issues,” Polt said in reaction to Koštunica’s Vidovdan statement.

Polt added there were many areas that Serbia and the U.S. agreed on, “such as the promotion of winners in the best business plan competition”, an event he attended this morning.

“The United States aims to help all the citizens of Serbia achieve their dreams. It takes two to battle, and in this case there’s only one side, since we are your friends, not your enemies,” Polt concluded.

Comments (38) | Send your comment

50 posted on 06/28/2007 10:58:51 AM PDT by Dragonfly
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