Skip to comments.Would you be in favor of Amnesty if the borders were truly secure?
Posted on 06/30/2007 4:02:33 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084
The defeat of the amnesty bill is indeed a great day for America. The noble concept of a "Government by the people, for the people" has worked exactly the way our founding fathers intended. Our public serpents have heard the voice of their constituents and acted according to their wishes by defeating this train wreck of a bill.
In the absence of an actual intellectual argument, proponents of amnesty relied on the lowest common denominator of civil public discourse...when you have no facts to back you up, just call your opponent names like doodyhead, racist, bigot, redneck or nativist.
Apparently the elitist left wingers who were eager for new Democratic voters and the elitist Wall Street Journal right wingers who were frothing at the mouth at the idea of a cheap labor pool were shocked. They were used to having their way while the unwashed masses were busy paying attention to Paris Hilton, American Idol or Anna Nicole Smith.
Americans told them in no uncertain terms: We are not stupid. We are performing our civic duty by paying attention to our government. The message is so simple that even a retard can understand it...PROVE TO US THAT YOU CAN ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS BEFORE PASSING NEW LAWS THAT YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY ENFORCE.
They claimed that "we haven't read the bill and don't understand it. There are too many moving parts." No. We've read the bill. They haven't. Sure there were some good parts: ending chain migration, increasing the number of visas available for highly skilled employees.
This is certainly not over.
Speaking strictly for myself, I have nothing personally against people trying to come to America to better their lives. Besides the felony crime of breaking into a sovereign nation illegally, the only other "crime" many of these illegals have committed is mowing our lawn, landscaping our yard and picking our fruit. We don't hate anyone.
My parents were first generation LEGAL immigrants. Many of your parents, grandparents and great grandparents came here for the same reason.
We all understand that. What people like Bob Menendez and Mel Martinez don't understand is that when people came here at the turn of the last century there was no welfare state. Come one, come all. If you fail, don't look to the Gubmint to bail you out and provide social services at the taxpayers expense. We are in a different world.
So I am curious and our elected public serpents who were shocked by the outcry from their constituents are too. President Bush is a "lame duck" supposedly. He certainly won't accomplish any new legislative initiatives. However, he still has the power as President to see to it that existing laws are enforced. That means build the fence that was authorized and funded in October of 2006.
Then come back to us and talk about Comprehensive Immigration Reform. If the border were truly secure, would you be in favor of a similar bill?
No. We need law abiding citizens in this country. We need countries that strive to better themselves on our borders.
Secure the border. Blanket amnesty is foolish.
These people have to learn that their time here has ended.
Legal Immigration on the other hand I'm all for.
Not just no, but hell no.
No amnesty for illegal businesses!
Send 'em home. Build a wall to keep 'em out. If they want in, tell 'em to get in line.
No. Cut off the welfare, fine the cr*p out of the employers, and deport anyone who crosses the path of law enforcement at any level.
Hell no. Even more, I’d round up the illegals, their families, dogs, cats, chickens and goats, drug them and plant RFI chips and GPS locators subcutaneously in all of them and deport them in handcuffs and chains or throw them all in prison and make them work to pay back all that they’ve cost us and taken in jobs.
There’s more that I would do too, but that’s a longer discussion.
How about this: They can never be legal voting citizens, but if the border fence is built in it's entirety, they can be legal permanent residents or at least guest workers?
I agree with post #9. NO! and stop anchor babies.
No. I still say build a concentration camp or two for illegal aliens, the rest will get themselves out of the country ASAP and then we seal the borders and enforce our laws. Simple. ;^)
No! The current crop of illegals can’t even be made legal by going home.
Reverse the flow, clean out the stable and bring in a true crop of thoroughbred stallions (maybe better make that geldings).
No. Illegal is "illegal." Go back to start.
BTW, we all know that "securing the border" is a myth. Even the Iron Curtain couldn't secure a border, and they were trying a lot harder than we ever would.
Even if the entire double sided border fence were actually built as authorized?
I would be in favor of something along these lines ... once the borders are proved secure, the flow of under wage no tax workers stopped ...
then offer a 90 day period for all illegal aliens to appear and get a temporary secure ID permit to stay, pending a background and health check.
At the end of 90 days everyone who did not show, when caught would be deported, no excuses.
Once the background check etc clears, then grant a 2-3 year work permit. If they had overstayed their visa, out they go. Flunk the background check, deport.
NO path to citizenship, the citizenship line forms where the line is.
Work permits are renewable 3 times or so, then they must go home. There are other existing ways to stay, green cards still work fine, and other forms of visas exist.
This would return the borders to some sibilance of regular order instead of chaos.
So I guess that puts me into no AMNESTY, but working is OK, which we are told is all the illegals want in the first place ...Right?
I think that most of these “no, hell no” responses might have been different, had the government secured the borders and THEN brought up amnesty.
I think this whole thing just left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. I know it did mine.
They’ll be voting and on welfare inside a year.
“No. We need law abiding citizens in this country. We need countries that strive to better themselves on our borders.”
I agree. There was a story out today about an illegal family who had been here 10 years. They did not speak English, and through the reporter talked about being afraid they will be deported. Well, I’d say it is time to go home where people speak your language or it is time to get in line with the immigrants who follow our laws! And while you are working on citizenship, learn to speak English to become an American! No Amnesty!
Good point! Children of tourists aren't citizens, and no more should children of illegals be.
I’ll bet you got that dammed Elmo doll for Christmas after all, didn’t you?
Sure. Why not?
It’s not about making things difficult for brown people.
If the border really, truly were made secure, sure. Fire up the citizenships. We’re missing about 20 million Americans from liberal abortion policies. Let them stay.
But no “chain migration”.
That’s it. Once the fence is up, applicants get here the same way everyone else does.
Apply, and wait to be approved.
There is no such thing as truly secure borders. If the illegals are safe once they are X miles from the border, then they will come. If the only penalty for trying is they get put back to try again, then they will try until they succeed
The only solution is sanctions against any employer that hires them, and any local govt that issues them benefits
As to what to do with people who are out of compliance, I personally would propose that those people who are not in compliance should be graded accorded to their degree of non-compliance:
Like a blessed thistle in the shorts...
I would be in favor of granting extensions and expedited hearings to legal immigrants who were stonewalled by the bureaucrats at the INS (now ICE).
Never another amnesty for the blatant illegals who willfully intended to sneak their way into this country, and who have been stealing from us all ever since.
It was "secure". They just shot anyone who tried to jump over the Berlin Wall and escape from the Socialist Utopia. This is a question for a different thread but golly gee willikers, if Socialism is so great why do people get on a raft or grab a pogo stick to try to escape it?
Somebody should explain that to the Socialist left wing liberal Democrats.
And the anchor babies are already in the oven...
No Amnesty for people who broke into our country.Whether the Border enforcement is improved or not.
How about this: They can never be legal voting citizens, but if the border fence is built in it’s entirety, they can be legal permanent residents or at least guest workers?
The problem is that if they stay in our country or judicial system and politicians will see to it that the aliens will have the same or more rights than American citizens and that should be a “Non Starter” as one of the President’s Bush used to say.
Nope. Close the borders and couple that with an attrition strategy. An amnesty for 20 to 30 million illegal aliens would be a national disaster. It'll be a lot easier to sell a true, limited agriculture guest worker program once the government proves itself on this issue.
First offense crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. Staying here is a felony.
The borders will NEVER be truly secure until illegal aliens face more pain by staying here than they do by leaving.
The anchor babies/birthright citizenship has to stop. I agree.
If I have to read another story in the newspaper about how Consuela the illegal immigrant who just gave birth to little Julio (which cost taxpayers $16,500 in maternity cost at our local hospital) is so happy that Julio won’t have to “worry about his papers”, I think I’ll f’ing puke.
Nothing personal. I love Consuela and Julio and wish them all the best. But geez louise.
Mowing the lawns and picking lettuce is what the pro amnesty crowd always talks about. What about the number of illegals in our prison system? What about the gangs of illegals that are endangering US citizens in a number of out larger cities? These crack whores ain’t interested in talking about them !!!
No. I’d be happy to expand *legal* immigration, letting in the people who respected our laws and went through the proper channels to gain entry to the U.S. But in my perfect world, illegals would NEVER be allowed legal status here unless they went back home before being caught, and applied through legal channels.
That question is a little ambiguous, Eric. The senate bill was a POS from the beginning. So no, I'd never be in favor of a bill similar to that.
Now, once the wall has been built and the border is reasonable secure, would I be in favor of a bill that addressed the needs of business? Yes, I would.
It needs to offer temporary work visas (TWV) matched to demonstrated needs. These cannot be visas that lead to citizenship. There are other visas already in place for that, those can stay in place.
To get a TWV, you need to apply from your home country, and wait for approval. Once you receive your TWV, you are to enter this country through a legal port of entry; not through the back door. You may not bring family members into this country while on a TWV. The term of a TWV should be no more than two years.
When your TWV expires, go home and apply for another. Or, let's be generous, allow TWV holders to apply for a second term once from the US. At the end of that term, if they've kept their noses clean, let them apply for a permanent work visa. The PWV provides a path to citezenship. If denied, they go home. And they don't get a notice to appear at a deportation hearing - they are sent home.
Now, this is going to take a lot of effort, resources, manpower, oversight, integrity, etc. Some folks will tell you it's too expensive to do this. When the current crop of illegals bankrupts Social Security, we'll need to remind those fools about their short-sightedness.
FWIW - that's the kind of reform I'd accept.
Once the boarder is secure with a wall:
1. Must be able to speak and read english.
2. Must provide your own healthcare.
3. Must not have a criminal background.
They don't call you the best orator on FR for no reason baby! :-)
However, To have such a huge population predominantly from one country (Mexico) and for them to come so quickly, I believe I am beginning to see a Balkanization of America and THAT is a problem. You see it in the media right now in most parts of the country.
Having so many economically driven refugees from an adjoining country whose primary reason for coming is not to be part of America and enthusiastically adopt the mantle of “American”, it is to earn more money and stay Mexican at heart. This is a huge problem and one that most Americans intrinsically understand, even if it is seldom if ever discussed. (That would be insensitive and racist, naturally)
I had a good friend from Mexico when I went to college in the early 80’s. One night we were out at a local bar on the strip and after many drinks we got to talking about his home country. He said something that stayed with me until today: “Texas and California were stolen from us and that is why Mexico is in such bad economic shape. Take Texas and California, and what have you got left?” I was stunned and asked if he was serious, and he said yes. Then I said “what you have left is Mexico, I guess”.
We never spoke again after that evening.
NO, absolutely not. Why? Check my profile and you’ll understand why...and it has nothing to do with the southern border.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
It’s simple, but it says it.
Nope. That's what touch-back was all about. That's a rock-hard requirement.