More City Infants are Dying in Bed

JSOnline ^ | July 2, 2007 | Kawanza Newson

[nmh]

You’ve been very foolish.

Doesn’t concern for the infant ever over ride your convenience? Or is it all about you and convenience. Rolling over and squishing them, kills them.

[Fishtalk]

I’d maybe accept your two cents Drew.

But even if your theory is correct, it is still about lifestyle and a bad methodology in raising children.

It is NOT about sleeping with their mothers as this so-called “study” would have us believe.

But I just don’t think so, Drew. I think there’s a whole bevy of reasons why those babies in certain zip codes seem to be dying and I don’t think sleeping with their mothers is the commonality.

Does anyone know the story of Waneta Hoyt? I reviewed the book on her on my Blog but here was a woman who lost something like EIGHT babies to SIDS.

Don’t hold me to that “8” number because I’m working from ageing memory here. But she had a whole bunch of babies die and in every case it was diagnosed as a SIDS death.

Only her babies didn’t die from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. They died from.....MURDER. By the hand of Waneta Hoyt.

The authorities were so embarrassed that they let this woman get away with what was essentially cold-blooded murder that it got to be that every time Waneta lost a baby the investigators tended to cover for her that they do not look like the fools they were.

I think the high infant mortality rate in those zip codes is perhaps a case or two of SIDS, perhaps some babies just plain malnourished and undercared for, in some cases I suspect a dead baby was quickly put into a mama’s bed so she could claim death by inadvertant smothering.

I’ll never think those babies in selected zip codes died because of “bad sleep habits” because this reminds me of that bridge I’ve got for sale.

AND...I’ll go one step further, I think whoever is in charge of this “study” or whatever it might be called is guilty of the “Waneta Hoyt” syndrome...ie...having a bunch of dead babies and trying desperately to find a logical reason for it.

But being poor and unable to buy a separate crib? A drawer, a box.....come on....you don’t need a Tiffany bassenette to place a baby to sleep.

Look up Waneta Hoyt if you don’t believe me.

[Fishtalk]

We’ve ALL been so foolish nmh. Goodness it couldn’t be the people “studying” this that have been fooled, oh no.

It’s US.....we’re the fools!

[Fawn]

That's funny. What a little minx she was!
I personally wouldn't want an unfixed cat in the house...the crying and spraying....no thanks. Glad to hear you got them all fixed now that your breasts sag. LOL

[AnAmericanMother]

“Mother knows best.” At some point you have to follow your instincts and reason, and ignore the “experts”. They keep changing their minds!!!!

[AnAmericanMother]

My cat was a purebred show cat with a pedigree longer than the First Families of Virginia. The kittens were all sold to good homes, except the one I kept (he made his Championship). She was spayed after her 2nd or 3rd litter, I think, because we had perpetuated that bloodline, and because she got in the habit of having one kitten at a time (thought she was a human I guess) and it got expensive dividing a hefty stud fee by one instead of 4 or 5!

But I agree with you that folks who don't have a reason to produce kittens ought to spay their queens.

Ditto for dogs -- although I made a horrible mistake spaying my Chocolate Lab bitch too soon. She turned out to be an incredible performance dog in 3 different disciplines -- obedience, agility, and hunting retriever. Look at all them ribbons (she's won about 10 more since, and acquired two more titles).

She also is smallish (Labs IMHO are getting too big), very healthy at 6 years old now with good teeth, perfect hips, good eyes, and a wonderful temperament. People ask all the time at the hunting club and the agility club if I'm breeding her and if they can have a puppy -- and there's a beautiful Choc in our hunting club who is the All Time High Point Retriever in UKC (something like 6,000 points), and the pups would have been dynamite!

We won't make that mistake with our 2nd Lab - a little black girl just 10 months old now. (We'll make some OTHER mistake, I'm sure.)

[Dianna]

I don't know when that changed--but I continue to tell my kids to put their kids on their tummies to sleep. It just makes better sense to me.

It changed in the early to mid-90's. My older son was born in 92, and we were told to put him on his tummy. Not too long after he got too old for SIDS, doctors started talking about placing babies on their backs.

[Dianna]

Doesn’t concern for the infant ever over ride your convenience? Or is it all about you and convenience. Rolling over and squishing them, kills them.

My babies managed just fine, as did the babies of nearly all the women that I knew who had infants. Babies sleeping with parents is very, very common. If it were, by itself, a huge risk factor, babies would be dying by the millions.

[petitfour]

Speak for yourself. My experience has shown that this mom is concerned about her infant ALL the time. And none of them have ever been trapped under me. They’ve been extremely protected. I felt more guilty about the children who slept in their baby beds because I was so relieved to be able to sleep uncontorted. Baby beds are a lot more convenient.

FWIW, I always had difficulty when hospital staff would take my newborns away. I could not sleep without the baby next to me. I could not sleep with the baby in the roll away cart for fear that someone would take the baby without me hearing. But we slept just fine nestled together the way God intended. With our youngest, the nurses said not to sleep with the baby in the hospital bed because they had had several babies fall off the bed while the mother snoozed. So I did not sleep. As soon as baby’s doctor got to the hospital, she advised me to take baby home. He wasn’t even 24 hours old, and she sent us home. We were happy to go. And we slept great together.

I don’t know of a single person who has rolled over and killed her baby. My mother used to complain about having the baby in the bed would cause baby boys to become gay. hah. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

[petitfour]

I have been trying to remember what happened to our Mama Cat. She is the only cat we had who did not get fixed at the appropriate time. She had been a stray kitten. We moved, and she was right at the age I thought she should be for spaying. The next thing I knew, she was pregnant by the many tomcats that roamed that neighborhood. I think she died right after she weaned her kittens. We think the tomcats were carrying one of those killer cat diseases. We had multiple stray cats die in our yard over the next few years. We decided that we would not have any more cats unless we could afford all of the medical care that they would need. Our last kitty was well taken care of until we moved across the country. She was unhappy with our move, and she disappeared. Makes me so sad to think about it.

[nmh]

Defending stupidity is even worse.

Blind arrogance does not become you.

[petitfour]

You mother your way. I’ll mother the way I think God intended for me to mother. I think God designed me to protect my babies. Some people should not have children. Some people should not sleep with their newborns. Some people are born to mother. Some people are born to fret and meddle.

It’s ok. I accept that you think it’s stupid to sleep with your baby(ies). I think it’s stupid for some people to do so. But I’m not going to dictate who can and who can’t. The next thing you know, some do-gooder lawmaker will make it illegal to allow babies to sleep in bed with their mamas.

I think my experience with nine children is pretty good evidence that it is ok for me. You cannot speak for someone else’s instincts. You can only speak for yourself and your experience. And I maintain that I do not know one person who has smothered her baby in her sleep. Not one. And I know hundreds who have slept with their babies. (probably more)

[nmh]

God wants us to protect out babies and NOT put them at risk. Being defiant doesn't remove the risk you insist on putting your babies through. One roll over and that baby is dead. God gave each of us a brain. He expects us to use that along with common sense. Your convenience is all that matters to you - not the risk of a dead baby.

[Fawn]

That is sad....it’s so important to keep cats inside when you change residences for at least 3 weeks so they get to know the area.... I hope someone took her in....

[old and tired]

You seem very set in your opinion. Did you know that a newborn baby generally nurses every hour and a half? Do you know the toll that takes on a woman’s body? I know babies sometimes die by accident when they sleep with good parents, but babies also die by infanticide at the hands of sleep deprived mothers. Women today have so much guilt thrown at them and attitudes like yours don’t help relieve the pressure of being a young inexperienced mother.

p.s. All of our babies slept with us until they could make it through the night without eating.

[petitfour]

I’m still sad. :( And I know we made it at least two weeks before she went out. But on the third week, she shot out the door to check things out. She stayed close to the door and went back in. I think she must’ve gone outside when my husband went out during the night. Then he forgot about her and went back in for the night. He saw her on his way to work in the morning, but he didn’t call to tell me to let her in. But I’m convinced a neighbor took her in. I’ve seen a cat that looks just like her late at night in the last month or so. I sent our daughter outside to see. She thinks it’s her kitty, too. But she was always skittish with people outside. Inside, she was sweet and cuddly. But if she went outside, she became a different beast altogether. Didn’t trust anyone. I think we’ll eventually woo this kitty close enough to find out. And this cat keeps hanging out around our yard at night. She always returns to the same house a few doors down. And I think if it’s our kitty, she speaks Spanish now!!!!!

[Fawn]

You should print out some flyers and put them on mailboxes. Did you have a picture of her? At least try to get some peace of mind....

[old and tired]

Nmh, how many babies have you had? Are you a woman? If so, did you nurse your babies? How can you be so blind to the torturous realities of sleep deprivation? A nursing baby wakes up every hour and a half! How can a nursing mother not bring a baby to bed with her? I'm sure some (a very few) babies do die because they are sleeping with their loving parents. But I'll also wager that most babies who sleep with their mothers are more comforted during the night, better fed, and just generally more healthy and happy, and that does not even begin to address the much more rested and happier mother. And if you don't think the mother's well being has a positive effect on the baby then you're not a parent.

Of course, if a woman really finds sleeping with her baby to have a negative effect on her either because she can't get rest or because she's been guilted by absolutists like you, then the baby is probably better off crying it out in a crib in another room.

[nmh]

“Nmh, how many babies have you had? Are you a woman? If so, did you nurse your babies? How can you be so blind to the torturous realities of sleep deprivation? A nursing baby wakes up every hour and a half! How can a nursing mother not bring a baby to bed with her? I’m sure some (a very few) babies do die because they are sleeping with their loving parents. But I’ll also wager that most babies who sleep with their mothers are more comforted during the night, better fed, and just generally more healthy and happy, and that does not even begin to address the much more rested and happier mother. And if you don’t think the mother’s well being has a positive effect on the baby then you’re not a parent.

Oh good grief! Again, “sleep deprivation” is not an issue. Babies sleep allot when they are INFANTS! You work around their schedule! THEY are the priority.

Sound like you’re a MAN with these silly comments and never had babies! Thankfully I can speak from experience. An infant needs to be in a SEPARATE bed, ideally a crib where Mom has easy access. Human beings move around in their sleep - one wrong move and you’ve crushed them. With their DEATH as a risk, I do believe any caring Mom can survive a few months of the inconvenience of getting up every three hours to breastfeed. Set an alarm - it's really not complicated to use an alarm for this. GOOD GRIEF!

“Of course, if a woman really finds sleeping with her baby to have a negative effect on her either because she can’t get rest or because she’s been guilted by absolutists like you, then the baby is probably better off crying it out in a crib in another room.”

Your EXTREME comments above, tell me you also lack common sense and quite self centered which puts an infant at RISK. It's also HEALTHY for a marriage to let the infant have a separate bed. Most males really don't want kids sleeping with them and their wife. The baby begins to get USED to sleeping there and creates problems and MANY SLEEPLESS NIGHTS to BREAK the HABIT of sleeping with Mom. Another fact conveniently over looked. So to NOT put the infant at risk, sleeping in the same bed as mom and perhaps KILLING the infant and stopping a negative habit from happening - baby being USED TO SLEEPING with Mom at the expense of Dad ... truly it makes NO sense, common or otherwise to have an INFANT sleep with mom for breastfeeding. It's no wonder healthcare professional go nuts when dealing with STUPID people! No healthcare professional would advocate this either since they SEE the result os IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR - infnat sleeping with mom - still others inisist on putting their CONVENIENCE before the safety of the baby - totally SELF CENTERED!

[Trailerpark Badass]

People have been sleeping with their babies for a long time. It has to be something else.

Morbid obesity?

Haven't these people ever heard of a basinette?