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Boeing wins $2bn contract to rewing A-10s
Flight Global ^ | 7/5/2007 | Graham Warwick

Posted on 07/05/2007 2:40:09 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Boeing has won a $2 billion contract to build new wings for the US Air Force's Fairchild A-10 ground-attack aircraft, after beating rival bids from contractors including Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman.

Announced on 29 June, the deal calls for the delivery of 242 replacement wing kits for installation by the USAF's Ogden Air Logistics Center at Hill AFB, Utah, with the work to extend the life of the A-10 fleet by at least 20 years.

More than 700 A-10s were introduced from 1976 and, despite regular threats of retirement, the type remains one of the air force's most effective close-air support platforms.

Lockheed is performing a wider precision engagement upgrade to the aircraft, and the resulting A-10C configuration will have new avionics equipment and an expanded range of air-to-surface weapons.

Boeing has yet to select its fabrication contractors for the rewinging project, which will begin with an 18-month engineering phase and is scheduled for completion by September 2018.

Boeing Macon will put the wing kits together for installation by the air force depot. The replacement design is based on the "thick" wing fitted to late production examples of the A-10.

Meanwhile, the USAF has awarded Korean Air a contract worth $16 million to continue service-life extension work on its A-10s until 2009. The company has previously modified 180 of the type at its Gimhae facility in South Korea.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: a10; aerospace; aviation; boeing; miltech; thunderboltii
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To: Publius6961
But those wings brought this man home...

Tell his mommy it wasn't worth it...

51 posted on 07/05/2007 3:50:06 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: MediaMole

I am quite familiar with federal contracts.

I responded to the copyright issue.


52 posted on 07/05/2007 3:52:06 PM PDT by Beckwith (dhimmicrats and the liberal media have chosen sides -- Islamofascism)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

And to think they were on the chopping block in 1990. Wow


53 posted on 07/05/2007 3:54:01 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: null and void

General government contract law - if the Gov pays me to design an airplane, I have commercial rights to the design (I can sell it to US Air, eg, subject to export control), but the government has unlimited use rights for their own purposes - they can hire anyone they want to build copies for government use.


54 posted on 07/05/2007 3:55:13 PM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: 4yearlurker

Awesome sites to say the least! Sometimes they even ventured over to the Nevada Test Site for some real fun!


55 posted on 07/05/2007 3:57:14 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: null and void

Love the van, Nully...LOL!!
(Is it yours??)


56 posted on 07/05/2007 3:57:33 PM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: tanknetter; saganite; null and void; TangoLimaSierra; cripplecreek; SierraWasp
Re: Or the A-26/B-26K Invader. About the same size as an A-10, lots of external hardpoints on the wings plus a gunnose (with 8 .50s).

Two...

of my best sellers!

57 posted on 07/05/2007 4:01:01 PM PDT by Bender2 (A 'Good Yankee' comes down to Texas, then goes back north. A 'Damn Yankee' stays... Damn it!)
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To: BearCub

Gov’t (AF) owns the drawings so no copyright.


58 posted on 07/05/2007 4:02:43 PM PDT by shawnlaw (Things is things and parts is parts...)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

There was some decent video of Warthogs doing a strafing and missile run on the Transformer movie, it was actually a pretty darn good show, I took my 13 year old son to see it yesterday.


59 posted on 07/05/2007 4:04:29 PM PDT by Eye of Unk
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To: Bender2

My grandfather got a ride in a B-17 a few months before he died. He was one of 4 WWII vets that took the place of men from the original crew who had already passed away.

They took off from Willow Run where the plane was built and flew to Oshkosh. We went and watched them take off. That was one proud bunch of octogenarians.


60 posted on 07/05/2007 4:07:44 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Greed is NOT a conservative ideal.)
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To: TangoLimaSierra

All the info I am finding online for the A-10 shows an introduction year of 1972, and a first production year of 1975.

Sure you don’t have your years crossed? It HAS been a long time...


61 posted on 07/05/2007 4:10:52 PM PDT by The Coopster
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Gotta love Warthogs! Here's a couple of pics I took back at the Edwards AFB show this year...

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Maybe the coolest formation of the day, right over our heads.  Clockwise, from the top, the P-51 Mustang, F-15 Eagle, A-10 Thunderbolt II (Warthog), and the F-22 Raptor.

Notice something interesting about the Warthog.  It has a fake cockpit painted on its underbelly to help disguise its orientation.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

The only two seater A-10 Thunderbolt II (Warthog) ever made.

62 posted on 07/05/2007 4:11:20 PM PDT by MarineBrat (My wife and I took an AIDS vaccination that the Church offers.)
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To: Cuttnhorse

Sadly, no.


63 posted on 07/05/2007 4:14:18 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: MarineBrat
Notice something interesting about the Warthog. It has a fake cockpit painted on its underbelly to help disguise its orientation.

The Canadians do that on their fighters as well.

64 posted on 07/05/2007 4:16:23 PM PDT by null and void (A large gov't agency is more expensive than a smaller agency with the same mission, yet does less)
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To: null and void
Yep, I've seen it on Canadian F-18s.
65 posted on 07/05/2007 4:31:23 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Sharpei diem -- Seize the wrinkled dog.)
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To: jaydubya2

After 30 or so years in service it’s probably stress cracks & pitting. You either re-wing them or you G-limit them.


66 posted on 07/05/2007 4:32:53 PM PDT by Tallguy (Climate is what you plan for, weather is what you get.)
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To: cripplecreek
Re: My grandfather got a ride in a B-17 a few months before he died. He was one of 4 WWII vets that took the place of men from the original crew who had already passed away.

Here's to your Grandfather...


67 posted on 07/05/2007 4:35:39 PM PDT by Bender2 (A 'Good Yankee' comes down to Texas, then goes back north. A 'Damn Yankee' stays... Damn it!)
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To: BearCub

If I’m not mistaken, air foil shapes were developed by the NACA, forerunner to NASA. That would make the crossectional shape kinda like ‘Public Domain’ stuff. As to the actual wing design — yeah that probably would be proprietary. Who purchased Fairchild Aircraft’s assets?


68 posted on 07/05/2007 4:36:28 PM PDT by Tallguy (Climate is what you plan for, weather is what you get.)
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To: thackney

“-—I remember seeing A-10’s returning from runs in Laos when I was stationed in Thailand in ‘69.-—

The first production A-10A was delivered to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Ariz., in October 1975.

Date Deployed: March 1976”

Perhaps saw A1E Sky Raiders. They were used for close ground support in both Laos and Vietnam back in the early days of the war. As the A-10, it was slow, ugly, difficult to knock out of the sky, and a fying dump truck....


69 posted on 07/05/2007 4:46:38 PM PDT by snoringbear (')
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

70 posted on 07/05/2007 4:57:06 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist)
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To: traumer

That pic in the midddle shows the A-10 deploying its reverse thruster.


71 posted on 07/05/2007 5:50:40 PM PDT by Erasmus (My simplifying explanation had the disconcerting side effect of making the subject incomprehensible.)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

>>Boeing has yet to select its fabrication contractors for the rewinging project, which will begin with an 18-month engineering phase and is scheduled for completion by September 2018.<<

Probably, China will get the contract. They’ll need this technology for their military aircraft.


72 posted on 07/05/2007 6:00:36 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Check out this website for the National Veterans Coalition http://www.nvets.org/)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Good. We were going to lose the whole plane.


73 posted on 07/05/2007 6:03:15 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Erasmus

Some of their ground crews tend to get upset when A-10 pilots deploy their reverse thruster to slow down near the end of the runway.


74 posted on 07/05/2007 6:19:15 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

LOL.

I was thinking the same thing.

If you’re driving your Hog onto the runway hot ‘n high, and going long, not to worry. You have your ace in the hole with your solid impulse reverse thruster.


75 posted on 07/05/2007 6:25:34 PM PDT by Erasmus (My simplifying explanation had the disconcerting side effect of making the subject incomprehensible.)
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To: TangoLimaSierra
I remember seeing A-10’s returning from runs in Laos when I was stationed in Thailand in ‘69.

BS. You must have been, or still are, high on Thai Stick if you remember seeing A-10s in '69.

76 posted on 07/05/2007 7:54:48 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

I certainly hope Boeing does a much better job than they did rewinging the A-6.


77 posted on 07/05/2007 7:56:05 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: BearCub
You can't just go out and copy someone else's design of a plane, boat, wing, whatever.

Many of these sort of things are done but the contractor reverse engineering the part. Copyrights work a little different with military contracts. The government does not quite 'own' the design but it is close. The government owns the functional requirements and if there is only really one way to satisfy those design requirements then it is not like the other company can cry foul. The new wing is sure to not be a carbon copy design anyway. So basically the function of the wing as far as the outside shape, the hard-points, landing gear provisions, attachment to the rest of the airframe, etc. are all fair game for anyone the military gives the contract to. Just like the way you can buy aftermarket parts for your Ford Mustang and Ford can't sue for copyright infringement. And even if they debatably could they would not because that would damage their relations with the rest of the industry.
78 posted on 07/06/2007 9:08:07 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: Publius6961
Wouldn't it be easier to tool up and build new entire planes?

No, because as long as you are building a new plane you would update things for the times. Which requires a lot of design effort. Even just copying takes a lot of time because Fairchild is not going to just hand you the blueprints. The task of designing a whole new airframe and testing it, even if it is suppose to be the same, is almost as hard as doing it from scratch. It does not seem like it should be, but it is.
79 posted on 07/06/2007 9:12:49 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity; CholeraJoe; microgood; liberallarry; cmsgop; shaggy eel; RayChuang88; ...

If you want on or off this aerospace ping list, please contact Paleo Conservative or phantomworker by Freep mail.


80 posted on 07/08/2007 7:27:16 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: MarineBrat

What’s funny is that P-51 could outrun that A-10.


81 posted on 07/08/2007 7:48:42 PM PDT by miliantnutcase
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Alright!!!! This is fantastic!!


82 posted on 07/08/2007 7:55:39 PM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Search for Folding Project - Join FR Team 36120)
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To: TalonDJ
The task of designing a whole new airframe and testing it, even if it is suppose to be the same, is almost as hard as doing it from scratch. It does not seem like it should be, but it is.

The Russians seem to be pretty good at it.

83 posted on 07/08/2007 8:20:19 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: miliantnutcase
"What’s funny is that P-51 could outrun that A-10."

With superior firepower, only if the A-10 wanted it to. The Mustang is one of the most beautiful airplanes ever created...but so is the A-10. How can ANYONE think the A-10 is ugly??? (in my best Steve Irwin) She's a beauty!

84 posted on 07/08/2007 8:20:41 PM PDT by GBA (God Bless America!)
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To: Beckwith; BearCub

Maybe the Air Force holds the design patents....it was built to government spec’s


85 posted on 07/08/2007 8:28:28 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The DemonicRATS believe ....that the best decisions are always made after the fact.)
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To: BearCub

I think I see your point, but let’s put this in more common terms. Are you saying that if you have a 30 year old Ford Mustang, then only a Ford dealer can work on it? Are you saying that only Ford can sell you parts? If you take it to someone other than Ford, are you in breach of contract or some law because you took your car to someone else? Can you buy aftermarket parts that improve the performance? At what point is it your car and you can do with it what you will?


86 posted on 07/08/2007 8:39:36 PM PDT by GBA (God Bless America!)
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To: BearCub

I am sure they are upgraded wings and you have to do to dodge a design copyright if there really is one is move around a rivet or two.


87 posted on 07/08/2007 9:06:37 PM PDT by appeal2 (R)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

It still burns me that the Air Force tried to first replace these with F-16s (”A-16’s...what a friggin’ joke), and now with Joint Strike Fighters. The Pentagon certainly has its share of fools.


88 posted on 07/08/2007 9:27:49 PM PDT by DesScorp
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To: traumer
Even GI Joe had its own versions...

89 posted on 07/08/2007 9:47:37 PM PDT by Little_shoe ("For Sailor MEN in Battle fair since fighting days of old have earned the right.to the blue and gold)
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To: traumer
Even GI Joe had its own versions of the good old A-10...

1984 Cobra Rattler


1988 Tiger Rat


1992 A-10 Thunderbolt

90 posted on 07/08/2007 9:50:56 PM PDT by Little_shoe ("For Sailor MEN in Battle fair since fighting days of old have earned the right.to the blue and gold)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Great news!!

And I remember just before the Iraq War 1 how these beauties were scheduled to be SCRAPPED in order to save costs for the upcoming more advanced aircrafts.

Now they are the frontline swords as they were destined to be used against the enemies.

91 posted on 07/08/2007 9:56:42 PM PDT by prophetic
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To: prophetic
And I remember just before the Iraq War 1 how these beauties were scheduled to be SCRAPPED...

Who knew that blasting people as they run around on camelback through the desert was about to become a primary role of the US Air Force?

In any case, the A-10 is suited admirably for the job.

92 posted on 07/09/2007 1:52:59 AM PDT by gridlock (Righty Tighty / Lefty Loosey)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Could be — whatever the contract said.

As a consultant, certain things I produced belonged to my employer, some the customer and some myself.

We are speaking about “Registered Copyrights” here and there is a section on the Form TX, to identify the Copyright Claimants and a section for transfers.


93 posted on 07/09/2007 4:06:07 AM PDT by Beckwith (dhimmicrats and the liberal media have chosen sides -- Islamofascism)
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To: BearCub
You can't just go out and copy someone else's design of a plane, boat, wing, whatever.

Read about Lehman's "leader-follower" in Ben Rich's "Skunk Works". Unbelievable.
94 posted on 07/09/2007 8:55:21 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Tim 1:4; Gal 1:6-10; 1Cor 2:2; Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25; Luke 20:34-35; 2Thess 2:11; Jude 1:3)
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To: Ancesthntr
China ain’t going away, but these planes are one way of keeping them on their side of the ocean.

No it's not. They are incredibly useful, but only against 3rd world opponents.
95 posted on 07/09/2007 10:04:22 AM PDT by newguy357
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To: null and void

Nice!! The keg-engines are a nice touch, and I’m sure they’re mileage boosters as well!


96 posted on 07/09/2007 3:40:53 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (When Bubba lies, the finger flies!)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
A 10 is a cool airplane, I'm glad it's getting new wings (that means it'll be around for quite a while.)

Unrelated, but still of interest...Why isn't the B-52 getting new engines? Seems to me that they could add range, speed reliability, and payload by converting to four, modern engines.

97 posted on 07/09/2007 9:15:50 PM PDT by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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To: MarineBrat

Yeah the enemy can’t see which side is up. They should paint one on the other end so they can’t see which way it’s going either!

It’s an old Warthog running joke to talk about how slow it is. The pilots who fly them know them all and can tell them the best.


98 posted on 07/11/2007 12:18:34 AM PDT by zipper
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To: zipper

Two jokes that I’ve heard about A-10s:

The A-10’s airspeed indicator is a pocket calendar.

The A-10 takes birdstrikes from the rear.

Of course, that is from F-16 guys whose brethren got their planes chewed to hell trying to fly the A-10’s mission. A few years back, some genius at the Pentagon decided that they could put 30mm gun pods on the F-16 and go hit tanks. It didn’t work worth a crap, the F-16 could not take the hits from ground fire and be survivable.


99 posted on 07/11/2007 7:22:58 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Sharpei diem -- Seize the wrinkled dog.)
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To: MarineBrat
"Notice something interesting about the Warthog. It has a fake cockpit painted on its underbelly to help disguise its orientation."

The Canadaians started that with their F-18s. After someone in the USAF brightened up...we started doing it as well.

And I do not know if it is the same...but I have seen an all black A-10 two seater [test aircraft] with a clear canopy, used to display geared up, precision night attack variant. Dont know whatever came of it though...

100 posted on 07/24/2007 2:34:47 PM PDT by VaBthang4 ("He Who Watches Over Israel Will Neither Slumber Nor Sleep")
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