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History's bloodiest siege used human heads as cannonballs (Siege of Malta in 1565 against Muslims)
UK Daily Mail ^ | 7/7/07 | James Jackson

Posted on 07/07/2007 1:10:40 PM PDT by wagglebee

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To: TR Jeffersonian

ping


51 posted on 07/07/2007 2:59:33 PM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we write in marble. JHuett)
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To: wagglebee

Thanks for the post. The story reminds me of the movie the 300.


52 posted on 07/07/2007 3:00:16 PM PDT by ChessExpert (Mohamed was not a moderate Muslim)
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To: ChessExpert

I missed 300 when it was in the theater, I will definitely get the DVD.


53 posted on 07/07/2007 3:01:37 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Get the book. You will enjoy it. I just finished it last week.


54 posted on 07/07/2007 3:06:00 PM PDT by Upbeat
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To: wagglebee

www.larryvoyer.com/.../barbary.htm

http://www.larryvoyer.com/Piratical/pirate_images4/barbary_torture.jpg


55 posted on 07/07/2007 3:07:48 PM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, NIECE)
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To: wagglebee

Age of Empires III starts with this very campaign.


56 posted on 07/07/2007 3:09:34 PM PDT by MacDorcha (study links agenda-driven morons and junk science...)
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To: Howard Jarvis Admirer

Gibson was the first name I thought of too when I was reading this! He’s got the guts and the money to do it. We need the author to start on a script right away!


57 posted on 07/07/2007 3:13:02 PM PDT by stcromwell99
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To: Sherman Logan

It seems that the act of taking up housing in a military manner, and fortifying an outpost, and launching raids against an enemy shipping route is a bit more than a *little* different from piracy.

For one- this was not for profit, but the cheapest means of sustaining a campaign. (Hell, SunTzu even wrote it- the bert way to fund a war is with the enemies goods).

So no, these were nothing like the Barbary Pirates.


58 posted on 07/07/2007 3:13:56 PM PDT by MacDorcha (study links agenda-driven morons and junk science...)
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To: carlo3b

Thank God for the Sicilians!


59 posted on 07/07/2007 3:15:07 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: mjp

Fascinating, mjp. Thank you.

A Provisional Source Tree For The Surnames Valette/Vallette/etc.
Note: We have nominal documentation for much of this tree. Most of it was constructed from other internet trees; and where connective data lacks, reasoned and historical suppositions have been made. We would greatly appreciate any constructive comments/corrections, documentary sources, or links, via our Guest Book, in order to render it more accurate.
Revised/Updated: October, 2005
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/3653/tree/ArchValx.html

Rear Admiral Elie A. F. Lavallette
Born: May 3, 1790, Alexandria, VA — Died: Nov. 18, 1862, Philadelphia Naval Yard
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/3653/tree/elieval.htm


60 posted on 07/07/2007 3:15:41 PM PDT by freema (Marine FRiend, 1stCuz2xRemoved, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, NIECE)
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To: wagglebee

Same struggle, different day.


61 posted on 07/07/2007 3:18:31 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Taz Struck By Lightning Faces Battery Charge)
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To: wagglebee

Their valor and ingenuity are still an inspiration today.


62 posted on 07/07/2007 3:19:24 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: Tanniker Smith

lol


63 posted on 07/07/2007 3:20:17 PM PDT by Continental Soldier
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To: rageaholic
Then eradicate it.

Finally.

64 posted on 07/07/2007 3:21:03 PM PDT by MarineDad (Whenever mosques and JDAM's meet, civilization benefits.)
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To: wagglebee
Suleiman) was the most powerful figure on the planet

Arguably both the Ming Emperor and the King of Spain were contenders for this title.

Ottoman military power was based on essentially pre-modern organization of men and animals. It was largely funded by loot.

Modern military power, based on chemically-powered weapons and fiscally sound governments, was just developing. Although it was not obvious to many at the time, on either side, the Turks could just not compete on this level.

65 posted on 07/07/2007 3:21:39 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: Tanniker Smith

You probably know this, but the falcon in question was the one sent by the Knights to the Emperor in thanks for his donation of Malta to them after they were evicted from Rhodes.


66 posted on 07/07/2007 3:23:15 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: Riley

Oh nooo, I thought that man looked familiar! Hahahaha, yeah ol’ Harry was cool :)


67 posted on 07/07/2007 3:24:31 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (Head Caterer for the FIRM)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

Are you referring to st sophia? I think that mosque was turned into a museum not too long ago.


68 posted on 07/07/2007 3:27:21 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Tanniker Smith

I’m looking for a house/apartment near the harbor in Valletta, Malta.

Stunning views.


69 posted on 07/07/2007 3:31:36 PM PDT by mgstarr (KZ-6090 Smith W.)
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To: Sherman Logan
Yup. Another reason for the connection in my head.

The other fun thing is that when I think of Greenstreet, Lorre and Bogart, my mind eventually swings around to "Casablanca" as well. Another great film.

70 posted on 07/07/2007 3:33:49 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Bloomberg. Lots of money. Lots of influence. Realize that NOW!)
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To: mamelukesabre

The battle of Lepanto took place on 7 October 1571.

The Christians were not greatly outnumbered, having roughly 42,000 men to roughly 47,000 for the Turks. Also the Christians had about 220 ships to about 270 to 300 for the Turks, but the Christian ships were on average larger and more powerful.

The battle was fought to a large extent between Christians armed with arquebuses and Turks armed with compound bows.

Unfortunately, the battle did not did not bring an end Turkish naval power, as they rebuilt their fleet within six months and conquered North Africa and Cyprus after Lepanto, and within a few years were again routinely raiding Sicily and southern Italy.

However, it was a portent of the future and Turkish fleets generally tried to avoid full-tilt combat after Lepanto.

Interestingly, Cervantes fought at Lepanto, was wounded three times, and had his right hand permanently crippled.


71 posted on 07/07/2007 3:34:56 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: in the Arena

Thanks for the link. That is impressive reading, as well.

Middle Easterners teach this history to their children who are raised with the deesire to avenge these losses. Unfortunately, our children know nothing about this.


72 posted on 07/07/2007 3:43:20 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: mamelukesabre; Mad_Tom_Rackham

Yes, it is a National Museum now. Pope Benedict XVI and the Eastern Patriarchs visited there on his visit to Turkey last year. It is beautiful. It was the result of some very touchy negotiations to host the Pope’s visit.


73 posted on 07/07/2007 3:47:23 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Sherman Logan

OOPSIE

I’m redfaced now.

I posted that from memory. I just looked it up. In 1569 the venetian arsenal exploded. The battle was paid for mostly by spain who got the money from it’s colonies in the americas. Apparently king phillip II had as much to do with it as don juan did.

Ok, how about this then...the battle of Lepanto was the worst defeat ever suffered by the turks at sea. After this battle, the turks’ naval strategy was to avoid direct head to head battle with christian navies unless they had an overwhelming advantage over the christians. And, it was all down hill from there for the turks. Although it took a few centuries for the end to come to pass.

Better?


74 posted on 07/07/2007 3:50:46 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Fitzcarraldo
When the next Pearl Harbor takes place, political correctness will evaporate into a mist of blood and we will do what we need to do.

Sad that we have to wait for infamy to prod us into action, but that seems to be our temperment.

I agree, it is very sad. About half of this country has never learned several key life lesson's: 1) If you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it, 2) As JFK said, "Ask not what this country can do for you, what can you do for this country?"

It really is shocking. As long as the gov teat is turned on, why worry about anything else. I got mine. Now I can worry about an IPod and watching Opra. The "you owe me" generation, after generation, after generation has done considerable damage to this country.

The Democratic party has been the enabler of most of this. But you could always count on the Republican party to counter / thwart most of the idiocy. No longer. And that is scary.

When the next Pearl Harbor does occur, this crowd will be the first ones to scream bloody murder. And you did, what...?

Fortunately, the other half of the country is paying attention.

Just MHO.

75 posted on 07/07/2007 4:07:17 PM PDT by LasVegasMac (I've reached the age where happy hour is a nap.)
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To: stcromwell99

No need for a new script - the Victorian author G. A. Henty wrote a book about the siege of Malta entitled, “A Knight of the White Cross”. You can read it for free if you download it from the Gutenberg Project. (WWW.GUTENBERG.ORG)


76 posted on 07/07/2007 4:14:36 PM PDT by Howard Jarvis Admirer (i)
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To: wagglebee
Then he returned a communiquè of his own: the heads of his Turkish captives were fired from his most powerful cannon direct into the Muslim lines. There would be no negotiation, no compromise, no surrender, no retreat.

Nor should there be....Evil can only be defeated by KILLING IT!

77 posted on 07/07/2007 4:20:50 PM PDT by dirtbiker (He who dies with the most toys...STILL DIES!)
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To: mamelukesabre

Works for me.


78 posted on 07/07/2007 4:31:55 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: Howard Jarvis Admirer
I recently read The Religion by Tim Willocks, a novel about the siege.

Well written, a little on the gruesome side. But then, gruesome describes what actually happened.

It does an excellent job of describing the events, in particular the defense of St. Elmo.

79 posted on 07/07/2007 4:36:54 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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To: wagglebee

lessons to be learned

Martel knew them

Coeur de Lion knew them


80 posted on 07/07/2007 4:40:36 PM PDT by wardaddy (I loved Apocalypto)
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To: wardaddy

And more recently, Sherman, Pershing and Patton knew these things (even though only Pershing had any interaction with Islam).


81 posted on 07/07/2007 4:46:37 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; SunkenCiv

Any body got any information on the fire-hoops they mentioned?

I thought they were very unique units in AoEIII, and cannot even pretend to having any historical referance to base them on.

Any help?


82 posted on 07/07/2007 4:57:52 PM PDT by MacDorcha (study links agenda-driven morons and junk science...)
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To: mamelukesabre
in 1569, the turkish navy was utterly destroyed for all time by a combined christian fleet in the “battle of Lepanto”. Don Juan organized this fleet.

G. K. Chesterton wrote a famous poem about Don Juan and the Battle of Lepanto

83 posted on 07/07/2007 5:02:23 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Open Season rocks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymLJz3N8ayI)
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To: SauronOfMordor
I think this is an interesting take on the symbolism behind the use of the Maltese Cross as a fireman's badge:

The badge of a firefighter is the Maltese Cross. This Maltese Cross is a symbol of protection and a badge of honor. Its story is hundreds of years old.

When a courageous band of crusaders known as the Knights of St. John, fought the Saracens for possession of the holy land, they encountered a new weapon unknown to European warriors. It was a simple, but a horrible device of war, it wrought excruciating pain and agonizing death upon the brave fighters for the cross. The Saracen's weapon was fire.

As the crusaders advanced on the walls of the city, they were struck by glass bombs containing naphtha. When they became saturated with the highly flammable liquid, the Saracens hurled a flaming torch into their midst. Hundreds of the knights were burned alive; others risked their lives to save their brothers-in-arms from dying painful, fiery deaths.

Thus, these men became our first firefighters and the first of a long list of courageous firefighters. Their heroic efforts were recognized by fellow crusaders who awarded each here a badge of honor - a cross similar to the one firefighters wear today. Since the Knights of St. John lived for close to four centuries on a little island in the Mediterranean Sea named Malta, the cross came to be known as the Maltese Cross.

The Maltese Cross is your symbol of protection. It means that the firefighter who wears this cross is willing to lay down his life for you just as the crusaders sacrificed their lives for their fellow man so many years ago. The Maltese Cross is a firefighter's badge of honor, signifying that they work in courage - a ladder rung away from death..

84 posted on 07/07/2007 5:36:50 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Upbeat

Will it be on Amazon?


85 posted on 07/07/2007 6:00:31 PM PDT by gbaker
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To: wagglebee

Great read - thank you.


86 posted on 07/07/2007 6:17:31 PM PDT by EverOnward
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Not that I know which is correct, but it was the knights using fire on the Sarcerens, according to the article.

Interesting that the story you relate has it the other way.


87 posted on 07/07/2007 7:06:26 PM PDT by patton (19yrs ... only 4,981yrs to go ;))
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To: LasVegasMac

> When the next Pearl Harbor takes place, political
> correctness will evaporate into a mist of blood and we
> will do what we need to do.

In case you didn’t notice, “the next Pearl Harbor” already happened on September 11, 2001.

What needs to be done is to eviscerate Mahometanism by destroying the Karbala rock and shrine, and perhaps all of Mecca.

No Karbala, no Mecca.
No Mecca, no Hajj.
No Hajj, no Islam, as we know it today.

This will flush out all the wild-eyed musselmen, who can then be dispatched prejudiciously.

The musselmen who value their lives more than their silly, malignant superstitions will have to reform.


88 posted on 07/07/2007 7:28:26 PM PDT by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it!)
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To: Howard Jarvis Admirer

“A Knight of the White Cross” is about the earlier siege of Rhodes, also a very notable battle, but one the Knights lost.


89 posted on 07/07/2007 8:14:46 PM PDT by JohnBovenmyer
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To: mjp
la Valette was a GREAT MAN. Many world capitals are named for historical figures. Few, if any, deserved the honor more than he deserves having Malta's capital named Valetta. Even George Washington may be less deserving. Without him Malta would have fallen. Without the win at Malta 6 years earlier Lepanto may well have turned out differently. Lose Lepanto and the west would have been in a world of trouble. Had they SF and Fantasy fiction in Middle Earth, la Valette's tale would have made a great novel for adventurous young hobbits, but in this reality the tale is all the more amazing for being true. The best version of it I've read is "The Great Siege: Malta 1565."
90 posted on 07/07/2007 8:36:19 PM PDT by JohnBovenmyer
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To: wagglebee

yes Sherman waged total war on his own former countrymen and their families and nobody anguished till later

we are so hamstrung now we anguish over whether or not to let them emigrate here or whether or not refusing to call them religion of peace is bigoted...much less wage total war on them

and Sherman did what he did not against an enemy that desired to annihilate or destroy his country and culture...he waged total war just to win the war and prevent seccession or preserve the union...take yer pick

Islam is a real threat to all of us.


91 posted on 07/07/2007 8:49:34 PM PDT by wardaddy (I loved Apocalypto)
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To: MacDorcha

Nope.


92 posted on 07/07/2007 9:00:45 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (This tagline optimized for the Mosaic browser. Profile updated Friday, July 6, 2007.)
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To: wagglebee
Thanks wagglebee.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

93 posted on 07/07/2007 9:02:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (This tagline optimized for the Mosaic browser. Profile updated Friday, July 6, 2007.)
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To: Sundog

Human Heads as cannonballs...


94 posted on 07/07/2007 9:36:39 PM PDT by Sundog (It's a good day for a catharsis.)
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To: Sundog
This picture was taken last week from the Barracca Gardens in Valetta.


Fort St. Angelo - Grand Harbour, Malta

95 posted on 07/07/2007 9:43:05 PM PDT by Cardhu
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To: wardaddy
lessons to be learned

Martel knew them

Coeur de Lion knew them

Don't forget Sobieski - or El Cid Campeador.

There are so many others who understood the threat, but have been largely erased by time and by the West's growing tendency to steer away from all things "Christian" when it comes to writing the history textbooks.

Take the example of King Dinis of Portugal, for instance. Not a name that is often discussed in our high schools or universities. However, he was the man who encouraged the building of a large fleet to assist in protecting against Muslim raids. When the Templars were eradicated throughout most of Europe, Dinis incorporated their Portuguese members and the wealth of the institution in the newly created Order of Christ. That order was responsible not only for the maritime defense of southern Europe against the Moors, but it was also responsible for the Age of Exploration (we've all seen pictures of the Portuguese galleons with the red cross of the Order on their sails).

Muslim raids on Morocco and Algeria forced Portugal to build a navy which, ironically, was powerful enough to explore the world and take over the Indian spice trade, thus leading the Muslim world into the economic swamp it is relegated to until this very day - despite all the oil in the Middle East.

The Age of Imperialism (and the wealth flowing in from Europe's colonies) also gave Europe the economic might to resist the Muslim onslaught. You'll never see a history teacher stitch all that together, though... and more's the pity.

96 posted on 07/07/2007 9:54:23 PM PDT by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: freema
Re: #60 - Thanks for posting the links to the geneology material. I believe that I'm distantly related to the New Orleans branch of the La Vallette family (local spelling "Valette"). It was my great-grandmother's maiden name.

No wonder this stuff stirs my blood.

97 posted on 07/07/2007 10:10:26 PM PDT by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: IncPen; BartMan1

ping


98 posted on 07/07/2007 10:33:21 PM PDT by Nailbiter
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To: wagglebee


The absolute best historical fiction take on the Great Siege.
99 posted on 07/07/2007 10:36:22 PM PDT by Antoninus (P!ss off an environmentalist wacko . . . have more kids.)
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To: edcoil
OK, lets make the movie like 300 to tick off the ME.

I keep praying Mel Gibson will tackle the job. He's one of the few who could do it justice.
100 posted on 07/07/2007 10:37:17 PM PDT by Antoninus (P!ss off an environmentalist wacko . . . have more kids.)
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