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Breaking: Bridge Collapse in Minneapolis
KSTP TV 5/ME | 8/1/07 | Me

Posted on 08/01/2007 4:28:27 PM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo

Just turned on the news. 35W bridge collapsed in the Mississippi River. Cars, trucks, semis.....

Fires burning, tanker trucks, at least one school bus, more than ten cars......

Just now breaking.......


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: 35w; bridge; bridgecollapse; bridges; btld; collapse; corrosion; engineering; infrastructure; jihad; minneapolis; mosques; mothman; prayerforminnesotans; rust; slownewsday; terroristattack; transportation; twincitiescell
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To: angcat

Yes, go back to the post I responded to. That’s where I found it. If you can’t get there, let me know.


1,801 posted on 08/02/2007 5:09:09 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: SW6906

Phobia = a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.


1,802 posted on 08/02/2007 5:09:10 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: xzins
Because there MIGHT BE powers that would want to suppress acknowledgement of terrorist activity.

That could cause Chertoff and his gut feeling to increase the alert status from Tums to Rolaids or maybe even Mylanta!
1,803 posted on 08/02/2007 5:10:55 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: All

I can’t stand that blonde chick Gretchen on Fox and Friends (she is a little prissy, know-it-all) and I hate Joe Scarborough’s morning MSNBC show.

I guess I’m stuck with CNN. They actually have some decent reporting with John Roberts in Minneapolis and they also have Kiran Chetry (a former Fox anchor).


1,804 posted on 08/02/2007 5:11:47 AM PDT by ClarenceThomasfan (I want President Bush to run for a third term!)
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To: Mercat

The 1st two seconds showing the woman running should have been at the end...obviously an edit error.


1,805 posted on 08/02/2007 5:12:15 AM PDT by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon))
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To: tsmith130

“”””Can’t stand bridges....especially over water.”””

TS, we are not crazy ;-)

It’s not the height or the water, it’s the gravity!


1,806 posted on 08/02/2007 5:14:22 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: bvw

That sounds plausible except it appears that the truss supports were on land, not in the water and would be supported by concrete bearing on bedrock.

Since this would not be in the water, it would not be subject to scouring action of flowing water.


1,807 posted on 08/02/2007 5:14:35 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Happiness is a down sleeping bag)
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To: sodpoodle

You should try the Chesapeake Bay Bridge... or the Tappan Zee during a Christmas blizzard. ;)


1,808 posted on 08/02/2007 5:14:49 AM PDT by johnny7 ("But that one on the far left... he had crazy eyes")
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To: Ramius; Spiff
See, the thing with terrorists is... they like to do things that leave no doubt. They want the big show, with their credit.

You mean like they DIDN'T do with 9/11?

Or perhaps that attack wasn't big enough to merit the effort to stake their claim to fame?

While it's true that OBL did fess up to it, I seem to recall the venue being a private tete-a-tete (a scumbag to scumbag tea), which was videotaped for posterity (rather than distribution). IIRC, the tape was found in a safe house our guys knocked over.

This was a year or two after the fact.

It wasn't until well after that inadvertent release that they openly took credit for the attack.

But, maybe you're right. Maybe 9/11 just wasn't a big enough deal for them to care one way or the other about taking credit for. That must be the case, if your logic holds any water at all.

1,809 posted on 08/02/2007 5:16:44 AM PDT by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: ClarenceThomasfan
blonde chick Gretchen on Fox and Friends (she is a little prissy, know-it-all)

Someone posted yesterday that she was on with Shep and trying to blame global warming for this disaster.


When she first started on F&F, the discussion was about illegals. She proclaimed that there were 400,000 illegals in the US. Both Steve G and Brian K tried to correct her and inform her that that number was woefully low. She, however, repeated it and said 'that was the number she had heard'. The Ditz seems obviously uninformed on most major topics.
1,810 posted on 08/02/2007 5:19:09 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: sodpoodle
It’s not the height or the water, it’s the gravity!

Damn right! I sometime even consider undoing my seatbelt and lowering my window until I'm across. I figure if I go down and the impact doesn't kill me, I'll be able to swim out the window. Ok, so maybe I am crazy.... ;o)

1,811 posted on 08/02/2007 5:19:48 AM PDT by tsmith130
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To: johnny7

“””You should try the Chesapeake Bay Bridge... or the Tappan Zee during a Christmas blizzard. ;)”””

You go first!


1,812 posted on 08/02/2007 5:20:30 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: johnny7

“You should try the Chesapeake Bay Bridge... or the Tappan Zee during a Christmas blizzard. ;)”

Lake Ponchartrain Causeway — 26 miles across water, and every now and then a barge hits it.


1,813 posted on 08/02/2007 5:23:19 AM PDT by gracesdad
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To: TomGuy

Yep, she’s really irritating. If I hear her say she’s a native of Minnesota one more time.......who cares!

My sister was about 5 minutes behind this mess - she was going I94E to 35W - she said it was pure chaos. I have to say that the first thing I thought of was terrorism, although it probably isn’t. We are so tolerant in Minnesota and our Muslim community is growing by leaps and bounds.


1,814 posted on 08/02/2007 5:24:28 AM PDT by Minn. 4 Bush
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To: All

Press conference live on now on FOX


1,815 posted on 08/02/2007 5:24:28 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet -Fred'08)
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To: TomGuy

“””blonde chick Gretchen on Fox “””

Cannot stand her - she’s taking Doocey & Kilmeade down the tubes.

Watching her nemesis, Kiren Chetry on CNN - Cannot understand why Fox dumped Kiren for that chatter-box!!!!


1,816 posted on 08/02/2007 5:26:02 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: ClarenceThomasfan
I can’t stand that blonde chick Gretchen on Fox and Friends (she is a little prissy, know-it-all)

Yes, the vaunted "Grinch" appears to be pushing the heat idea, of course global warming.

Truth is, absolutely no one who knows anything, has even floated that idea.

The little lib Gretchen is pushing the notion, and Fox is picking up on it.

This coverage is typical media hype and speculation made by fools who know nothing about bridges.

They have it set to music already!

I wonder if Shemp will be down by the bridge screaming at the gubmint tonight?

1,817 posted on 08/02/2007 5:27:17 AM PDT by dforest (Duncan Hunter is the best hope we have on both fronts.)
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To: gracesdad
Lake Pontchartrain Causeway — 26 miles across water, and every now and then a barge hits it.

Or a hurricane...

1,818 posted on 08/02/2007 5:28:38 AM PDT by johnny7 ("But that one on the far left... he had crazy eyes")
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To: johnny7

True, but I think they close it down.


1,819 posted on 08/02/2007 5:34:44 AM PDT by gracesdad
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To: sodpoodle

Fox dumped Kiran because she apparently used unethical tactics to try to oust Ms. Carlson from her Fox & Friends spot. Look, Kiran was never going to advance any higher as long as she stayed at Fox. Kiran is too liberal and not the type of person that Roger Ailes would have wanted as his main female co-host on weekdays. She was fine for the younger, more liberal weekend viewing audience, but during the week, more conservatives tune in and Chetry’s liberal views didn’t always please the loyal Fox fans. She seems in over her head at Clinton News Network. She doesn’t have the qualifications to work there.

I’ve been flipping around regarding the bridge collapse coverage. It seems all of the channels have info. that you might not have heard on the other networks.


1,820 posted on 08/02/2007 5:34:53 AM PDT by fox0566
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To: xzins; blue-duncan; SilvieWaldorfMD; Blueflag; Gamecock; pissant; RedRover; SandRat
Why?

Rust.

1,821 posted on 08/02/2007 5:35:53 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: xzins

Independent investigation -— absolutely!


1,822 posted on 08/02/2007 5:38:43 AM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: P-Marlowe
SECURITY CAMERA FOOTAGE OF THE COLLAPSE

This link may have already been posted but I'm posting it again for anyone who's not able to read all the previous posts.

1,823 posted on 08/02/2007 5:39:08 AM PDT by FReepaholic (Boomchakalakalaka Boomchakalakalaka)
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To: indylindy
Yes, the vaunted "Grinch" appears to be pushing the heat idea, of course global warming.

The structural engineer they have on now just shot that down. She said heat has less effect on steel and concrete than cold.

1,824 posted on 08/02/2007 5:39:09 AM PDT by tsmith130
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To: ButThreeLeftsDo
I have to cross over the St. Pete-Tampa Sunshine Skyway in a couple of days. Oh, joy......

At least it's a less steep incline than it was before the original span collapsed. The height at the top really was scary for some folks. My grown daughter-in-law would get down on the back seat floor and cover her head with a wrap till we got over to the other side. Yet she flies all over the country.

Leni

1,825 posted on 08/02/2007 5:40:18 AM PDT by MinuteGal (Three Cheers for the FRed, White and Blue !)
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To: fatima; ninergold3

All is well with my sister in law and neice.
Thanks for the prayers!!!

God bring comfort to those who are scared, suffering and lost. Thank you, Father. Amen


1,826 posted on 08/02/2007 5:40:32 AM PDT by jackv (DEMOCRATS HATE BUSH MORE THAN THEY LOVE THEIR COUNTRY!!!)
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To: tsmith130

I bet she was disappointed. She makes me sick. So sick, I had to turn it off!


1,827 posted on 08/02/2007 5:41:32 AM PDT by dforest (Duncan Hunter is the best hope we have on both fronts.)
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To: Mercat

They should have done a bit of editing. Amazed that it took this long for the video to get out. If it is government video, I guess I can understand.


1,828 posted on 08/02/2007 5:41:42 AM PDT by listenhillary (¿Qué parter DE "illegal" ousted no entente?)
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To: Minn. 4 Bush

It may or not be an act of terror. You do have some of the more virulent Muslims there -—the somalians.

Either that or the bridge inspectors are among the dumbest.

The governor just said (on FOX) that he cannot categorically rule out terrorism.


1,829 posted on 08/02/2007 5:42:56 AM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: HairOfTheDog
Actually, it appears they can rest secure in the confidence that they don't actually HAVE to do anything, and at least some paranoid people will give them credit for whatever happens anyway :~D

I see. So, in other words, accepting the words of the DHS at face value when they warn us that things like, for example, bridges, are prime terrorist targets -- and then observing that they persuade police across the country to dispatch when someone is observed photographing a bridge -- or even observing a bridge -- is evidence of mental pathology.

And your qualifications as a DSM-flogger are exactly what, "doctor"?

Would I be out of line suggesting that if you... ahem, "they" don't want people to think "terrorism" when a bridge kabooms, they shouldn't keep warning us to be on the lookout for terrorists trying to make bridges go kaboom?

Oh, sheesh, why am I asking you? You've obviously got either delusions of grandeur, a "post-for-hire" gig, or, a seriously warped sense of troll-humor. Sorry I wasted your^H^H^H^H^H my time.

1,830 posted on 08/02/2007 5:46:20 AM PDT by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Milwaukee_Guy; All

Now does anyone know if the names and locations of the other structurally deficient bridges is available online?


1,831 posted on 08/02/2007 5:48:49 AM PDT by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: xzins

When I 1st saw this last nite, and even heard 1st thing mention of terrorism, I dismissed that theory.

These nutcases aren’t going to bother with a little bridge in the middle of the country when they haven’t brought down all the “important” places in the US. This would be like 10th-tier target.

Unless it was just some local Moslem Somalis on their own mission.


1,832 posted on 08/02/2007 5:50:31 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: exit82

Although the rocker plates were ripped free of the pier by lateral deflection, the end placement of the kingposts indicates they rotated about their bases, displacing the tops of the piers little if at all.

On the other side, you could be right, but the tension in the cantilever trusses would come as a result of the lateral deflection, not an increase in pier to pier distance as the piers at the failure point didn’t move.

A good strong jerk along the cantilever steelwork could begin the pier deflection process, which could continue as the sidespan adjacent to it fell and kept shoving them towards the river.

Not real impressed with those piers, I don’t see much more concrete than necessary for vertical load bearing, not a lot of lateral stability there, they appear to leave that to the steelwork above.

Still, it’s clear that the triggering event initiated on the far side.


1,833 posted on 08/02/2007 5:50:31 AM PDT by jeffers
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To: Terriergal
Yep that's why armies always broke stride when marching across bridges.

There's a big difference between a third world wooden "peasant, horse, and cart"-grade bridge, and a domestic bridge designed by expert engineers. Try driving an 18-wheeler loaded with three rolls of steel over one of those "break cadence when crossing" bridges in any manner you choose, and see if you can keep it out of the water.

1,834 posted on 08/02/2007 5:50:54 AM PDT by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Don Joe

Just as a note to this discussion, I remember Osama supposedly saying (right after) he WISHED he could take credit for it.

Maybe it was just so big even he was AFRAID to admit it at that point?


1,835 posted on 08/02/2007 5:54:02 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: jeffers
Although the rocker plates were ripped free of the pier by lateral deflection, the end placement of the kingposts indicates they rotated about their bases, displacing the tops of the piers little if at all.

On the other side, you could be right, but the tension in the cantilever trusses would come as a result of the lateral deflection, not an increase in pier to pier distance as the piers at the failure point didn’t move.

Ummm...huh?

1,836 posted on 08/02/2007 5:54:57 AM PDT by tsmith130
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To: FReepaholic; xzins; blue-duncan
Steel bridges are like huge piano strings. Every time you bang on it, the string weakens a little more at the bridge. The entire structure of a bridge vibrates like a big piano string when cars drive across it. If you add rust to the picture, the string becomes less flexible and more prone to snap.

I suspect that at some critical point on the bridge, the combination of age, vibration and rust and too many cement trucks caused the structure to just snap like a worn out piano string.

The fact that we do not have Palestinians dancing in the streets is pretty solid evidence that this was not a terrorist attack.

This was..... (gasp).... an... accident.

1,837 posted on 08/02/2007 5:55:21 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: sodpoodle

You’re not the only one who has trouble with bridges. I remember going over an open grate bridge over the Genesee River when I first learned to drive. It was terrifying and I can still hear the rumble of the tires on the metal grate.


1,838 posted on 08/02/2007 5:56:21 AM PDT by Sacajaweau ("The Cracker" will be renamed "The Crapper")
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To: All
KARE Channel 11 has streaming video at the following link, as well as

The Bridge Collapse caught on Video ^


It gets pretty busy, but eventually loads.

1,839 posted on 08/02/2007 5:58:41 AM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: tutstar

A starting place, by states:

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/trn_bri_str_def-transportation-bridges-structurally-deficient

You might try searching the Dept of Transportation website for more information.


1,840 posted on 08/02/2007 5:59:56 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Don Joe
"The Hoan Bridge was temporarily closed on December 13, 2000 after two of three support beams failed, causing the north-bound lanes to buckle and sag by several feet, leaving the span in a near collapsed state. Incredibly, no motorists were injured when the bridge failed. On December 28, 2000 engineers used explosives to remove the damaged section. After reconstruction of the failed span (and extensive rehabilitation and retrofitting of the remainder of the bridge), the Hoan Bridge fully reopened in November 2001. A total of $19 million was spent to demolish and replace the damaged section and retrofit the remainder of the bridge." The Hoan Bridge was inspected only a few days nefore the partial collapse in 2000.
1,841 posted on 08/02/2007 6:01:44 AM PDT by Milwaukee_Guy (Don't hit them between the eyes. Hit them right -in- the eyes!)
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To: TomGuy; All
I live and work in the area and (used to) travel across it. TV doesn't show it justice.

Look at the ratings the inspections gave it - a 4 out of 0-9 for the sub-structure!

Too much money is going to trains here, not the infrastructure for the over-travelled highways here !!!

1,842 posted on 08/02/2007 6:01:54 AM PDT by LiveFreeOrDie2001 (They're "Terrorists" and they want to KILL YOU !!!)
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To: Sacajaweau

Hi Saca!

Got coffee?

“””open grate bridge””” Old Savannah River bridge had metal grates - it has since been replaced by the Eugene Talmage Memorial suspension bridge...another palm-sweater!

http://www.lmpics.com/Engineering/Savannah.aspx


1,843 posted on 08/02/2007 6:06:15 AM PDT by sodpoodle ( Despair - man's surrender. Laughter - God's redemption)
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To: FReepaholic
From a couple of quick view of the video and without the aid of any enhancements, it looks as if the side of the bridge that is not seen on the video ( what would be over your right shoulder if you were taking the video) collapsed first and pulled the rest of the bridge down. It fell straight down and then fragmented in pieces. No puffs of smoke or other signs of imminent failure or man-made trauma immediately before the collapse. Hopefully there is good feed of the other side.
1,844 posted on 08/02/2007 6:06:21 AM PDT by brothers4thID (FDT: "Every notice that while our problems are getting bigger, our politicians are getting smaller?")
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To: ButThreeLeftsDo
Bridge under construction and pared down to one lane of traffic.

DO you think that is the reason? I haven't heard anyone mention this...

1,845 posted on 08/02/2007 6:08:51 AM PDT by Fawn (God created Birds and Mice for Cats.)
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To: brothers4thID

That was my take also. Just a note, the youtube video says from the North side of the bridge.


1,846 posted on 08/02/2007 6:09:36 AM PDT by listenhillary (¿Qué parter DE "illegal" ousted no entente?)
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To: ButThreeLeftsDo

I am a FHWA certified bridge inspector, with additional certification for Fracture Critical Steel Bridges, and have inspected bridges in the past, so I am getting a kick out of these posts.

I have posted about that in the past and have been criticized in this forum for “sucking on the government teat”, even though I actually work for a private engineering company doing inspections for government entities. Many here were critical of the Federal requirement to inspect bridges regularly. One person here went so far as to state that there should be a sign posted at the entrance to each bridge saying “Cross at your own risk”. I wonder what he is saying today.

It looks from the photos that it was a fracture critical steel bridge. That means there is no redundancy. If any one of a number of parts breaks, the whole thing comes down. Newer bridges (and this is a newer one, being only 30 or so years old) are usually built without redundancy. Why? Because it is cheaper. No one wants the government to spend more than absolutely necessary.

Bridges such as this one are supposed to be inspected once a year (non-fracture critical are inspected every two years). There is a report that this one was listed as “structurally deficient” in the past. This does not mean that the whole bridge had to be replaced immediately. Probably, the whole bridge was not deficient. Some things are relatively minor in cost, but can cause collapse if ignored. If this was the case here, it should have been repaired by now. Sometimes repairs are not done. Sometimes they are not done correctly. Sometimes other deficiencies are missed.

I will be very interested in what the investigation comes up with because as of right now, nobody knows anything.


1,847 posted on 08/02/2007 6:09:39 AM PDT by jim_trent
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To: indylindy
Yes, the vaunted "Grinch" appears to be pushing the heat idea, of course global warming.

Hope you were watching F&F a few minutes ago. They actually had a REAL expert on bridges; a young lady that exuded knowledge (at least to me, she did)of bridges and their structure. She said that heat would not be a factor; in fact, just the opposite. Steel is much more likely to fail in colder temperatures. Following having this lady on, they then went to the governor, and he immediately went into a diatribe about state inspections,et.al. There you go. Wonder if they got out of their airconditioned/or heated state vehicle to perform said inspection.

1,848 posted on 08/02/2007 6:09:54 AM PDT by OBXWanderer (dontvoteincumbent.com)
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To: Milwaukee_Guy
In the 70s I used to cross a bridge across the Missouri River at St. Joseph, Missouri every day. US Highway 36. This bridge was probably built at the turn of the century and was having constant deck failure.

You could see through the holes you were driving over as the deck was being spot-gap repaired on the other side. The corrosion was terrible and I deal in steel somewhat and know that surface rust is not always a bad think -- I'm talking wholesale scaling. They got it to survive until replacement in part due to almost constant repair.

While shaking is normal, this thing was failing so rapidly that while you were stopped on it for alternating trafice around repairs, you could see bits and pieces falling loose. I kid you not.

1,849 posted on 08/02/2007 6:13:46 AM PDT by KC Burke (Men of intemperate minds can never be free...their passions forge their fetters.)
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To: jim_trent
There was a big report released by one of the agencies in 2002 about infrastructure vulnerabilities. What I recall most was a bridge inspector saying that it wasn’t terrorists we should be concerned about, it was normal wear and tear and government ineptitude. Basically, we were/are running around terrified of radicals putting some c4 on a truss when mother nature and father time were/are ten times more likely to cause havoc.
1,850 posted on 08/02/2007 6:15:56 AM PDT by brothers4thID (FDT: "Every notice that while our problems are getting bigger, our politicians are getting smaller?")
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