Posted on 08/05/2007 6:29:48 AM PDT by LouAvul
Noble, Oklahoma - A five-year-old boy is dead after a tragic mistake in which a stray bullet, meant to kill a snake, struck the boy.
It happened Friday night in Noble, about 100 miles southwest of Tulsa in Cleveland County. Officers had responded to a rural area after a family called about a snake.
Noble City Manager Bob Wade says the snake was apparently in the rafters of a home and that officers decided to shoot the snake. But, when they did so, they later heard the boy screaming.
The boy, who was apparently fishing at a nearby pond, had been struck by the gunfire. The boy was airlifted to a nearby hospital, but was pronounced dead. He was identified Saturday evening as Austin Haley.
Noble City Manager Bob Wade says he is 'devastated' by the tragedy. Meanwhile, the officer who fired the shots has been placed on routine administrative leave while the investigation continues.
Of course not. Newton's second law says the Force is equal to the mass times the acceleration.
A bullet in freefall would be falling at terminal velocity, whatever that might be given the circumstances.
Therefore the deciding factor would be the mass of the bullet.
F=MA
Damned it I know. That's way too much math for this poli sci major. So I'll just skip the math and class it as "theoretically possible, but ain't gonna happen."
A bullet is an inert mass. Mortar rounds tend to be filled with stuff what goes boom. Not the same thing at all.
Now, if you're using mortar tubes to fire tennis balls -- something you can do with PVC pipe and hair spray as propellant if you're bored next weekend -- give me an outfielder's glove, and that could be a game. Fly balls only -- no line drives.
Anything wrong with pistol-fired snakeshot, assuming one is extra careful of course to make sure that's actually what one is shooting?
That depends on the height of the arc. If a bullet is fired at 45 or even 60 degrees, I wouldn't want to be at the other end of the arc.
Agree. Unless there's something we haven't yet heard -- like a baby sleeping in a crib within striking distance of a rattler -- this doofus should lose his job, his pension and most of his lifetime earnings.
In terms of liability, LEO certification is kind of a double-edged sword -- the law demands greater judgment, but is more forgiving of minor lapses in judgment. Emphasis on minor, which this case wasn't. As we like to say in Georgia, this ol' boy was all eat up with the dumbass.
As an example of what I'm talking about, suppose a cop draws down on a suspect and the suspect reaches back and pulls a wallet or a call phone, and is then shot dead. A civilian would likely be let go pending an investigation and never charged. But if he were charged, he would likely face prison. A LEO would likely face an internal review and departmental sanction, but not prison time unless his actions were egregious.
Ghengis: Boiler plate Force Continuum training would have told these officers that this was far from a life or death situation that required a deadly force answer. Especially with the chance that it would put innocent bystanders at risk.
I completely agree. As I wrote above, unless there was a sleeping baby right next to the snake, there was no good reason to shoot at it. Even in far more dire circumstances, like perps shooting at them, cops often refrain from firing back if there is undue risk to bystanders.
Most cops are issued batons. More than enough, with even a little training, to deal with a snake that isn't an anaconda, a bushmaster or a king cobra. Maybe they ougt to be issued swords, too, at least out in the sticks; that has a pretty solid intimidation value. A samurai sword, a machete, a cavalry sabre, all good choices.
Tennessee vs. Garner showed that State Law and Department Policy is not always the final answer on the subject. Without being familiar with this state's law, I'd also guess that this scenario could be prosecuted criminally.
I wasn't familiar with that case, but having googled and skimmed it, you have a good point. But if this officer acted within official policy (which I rather strongly doubt), an is then punished for doing so, he could turn around and sue the department for training him wrong.
My meager credentials -- I have no LEO training or certifications. But my dad taught me how to shoot, and when, and he is trained and qualified. He still qualifies every year in his retirement. so he can keep his valid-in-all-50-states carry permit.
I'd love to see their data supporting your contention. Perhaps you have a link?
Unfortunately bird or snake shot in a pistol is influenced by the rifling. It tends to try and head out in a circle instead of staying in a group. If you have a 22 get some shot and try it on cardboard at varying distance. It will amaze you how fast it disburses.
How about skin grafts?
I would guess, emphasis on guess, that if you caught a bullet at the very end of its arc, something that left the barrel white-hot would still -- kinetic energy aside -- be hot enough to leave first- or second- degree burns on your palm, Third, if it's a tracer round.
That is a feature, not a bug. Light shot in a handgun or rifle is designed for soft targets at close range; It disperses and loses its punch at a distance. It's supposed to. That's what it's for.
If the cop in this story had used bird/snake/rat shot, the snake would likely still be dead and the kid almost certainly wouldn't. That is the central point.
I was always impressed with the way our mortar teams could predetermine the almost exact path a mortar shell would travel while making allowances for the existing winds.
>PVC pipe and hair spray as propellant<
Those days are behind me. LOL
Oh and Mickeysoft did give me the correct answer - once!!!!
I've sometimes wondered whether a derringer with snake shot might be usable as a self-defense weapon by a severely-visually-impaired person. Deadly against a person at contact range, but not terribly far beyond.
What's complicated about:
a - Get a hoe/rake
b - whack snake out of rafters/bird house
c - whack snake in to cutlets?
My post was made from that perspective. Living where all of America’s venomous snakes and the occasional King Cobra, and other escapees from the Miami pet trade wind up - I am aware of the risk such snakes pose.
SHot or slug, a gun is lethal at short range. Even blanks -- just ask Jon-Erik Hexum and Brandon Lee.
For someone severely visually impaired, aka "legally blind," i'd recommend a cattle prod built into the white cane. Call it a contact taser.
When I was about 8 my mother had a bunch of church ladies over for a get together. One of the ladies screamed, momma grabbed a manual lawn edger, threw it like a spear, and whacked a moccasin in the yard, from 20 feet out.
They don’t make many ladies like her these days.
Huh? What’s wrong with shooting snakes? Normally they are on the ground and you shoot down. The bullet goes into the ground. What’s the problem? I’m been shooting things like this my whole life. Heck, I shoot grasshoppers just for kicks if I feel like it.
A risk is not an imminent threat. Get everyone out of and away from the house. Then deal with the risk in a sane and propionate manner.
My post was made from that perspective. Living where all of America’s venomous snakes and the occasional King Cobra, and other escapees from the Miami pet trade wind up - I am aware of the risk such snakes pose.
Where the dangers are greatest, funny thing, the expertise tends to be greatest. If this had been a Miami-Dade cop, he would likely have cleared the house, kept an eye on the beast, and waited for animal control to arrive. Hold aim and be ready to shoot if you must, but don't blaze away like a damn fool. South florida animal control officers know their snakes and gators as well as most suburban dog-catchers know a yapping terrier.
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