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To: jagusafr

FWIW, there is a moral imperative for commanders to mandate Christian exposure of their personnel on active duty.

Unlike other scenarios in a free society, a military establishment mandates immediate obedience to orders from senior ranked officers and line officers in combat 24/7.

The commanding officer therefore, has incurred a responsibility for his juniors to insure they are provided with an opportunity to be provided the Gospel if they are unbelievers and an opportunity to receive proper pastor-teacher guidance as believers while they are serving under the command of others.

Both the gift of pastor-teach and the gift of evangelism are spiritual communication gifts given by God the Holy Spirit to certain believers. The spiritual communication gift of pastor-teacher is given to a person to spiritually discern the appropriate part of the Word to be taught to the believers in his midst per God’s Plan, so that they are in the right place at the right time to perform by His Plan.

Likewise, the spiritual communication gift of evangelism is given to some believers to communicate to unbelievers.

Unlike the common citizen who incurs the responsibility to find his own pastor-teacher and continue obediently in faith through Christ in his daily studies, the military serviceman, is also under the legitimate authority of his commanding officer to obey 24/7 the orders of his seniors.

Likewise, his seniors bear the responsibility to God to insure pastor-eachers are made available to the serviceman for their spiritual growth, only possibile through faith in Christ through daily intake of Bible doctrine by their appropriate pastor-teacher.

Recent ecumenical perspectives fail to recognize the significance of God the Holy Spirit in the continuing sanctification of each and every believer, every day and moment of their lives. Many worldly officers believe they are able to substitute a worldly system of counterfeit belief independent of faith through Christ and still advance in good works. Such thinking is good for nothingness, not only jeopardizing the sanctification and spiritual growth of their juniors, but also placing their commands at risk of divine discipline, being in the wrong place at the wrong time on the battlefield which is deadly.

IMHO, if our commander-in-chief was remaining in fellowship through Christ in all things, he would relieve those in the chain of command who seek such counterfeit substitutes to God’s Plan and place the US armed forces at risk, without divine guidance through faith in Christ.


35 posted on 08/27/2007 12:12:34 PM PDT by Cvengr (The violence of evil is met with the violence of righteousness, justice, love and grace.)
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To: Cvengr
"FWIW, there is a moral imperative for commanders to mandate Christian exposure of their personnel on active duty."

Such establishment of religion would be a violation of our First Amendment. Some of us believe that it is a sin to worship Jesus as a G-d.




The following letters are from the Jewish Virtual Library (letters from our first President to Hebrew Congregations--image files of manuscripts behind the link)

Gentlemen:-I thank you with great sincerity for your congratulations on my appointment to the office which I have the honor to hold by the unanimous choice of my fellow citizens, and especially the expressions you are pleased to use in testifying the confidence that is reposed in me by your congregation ...

I rejoice that a spirit of liberality and philanthropy is much more prevalent than it formerly was among the enlightened nations of the earth, and that your brethren will benefit thereby in proportion as it shall become still more extensive; happily the people of the United States have in many instances exhibited examples worthy of imitation, the salutary influence of which will doubtless extend much farther if gratefully enjoying those blessings of peace which (under the favor of heaven) have been attained by fortitude in war, they shall conduct themselves with reverence to the Deity and charity toward their fellow- creatures.

May the same wonder-working Deity, who long since delivered the Hebrews from their Egyptian oppressors, planted them in a promised land, whose providential agency has lately been conspicuous in establishing these United States as an independent nation, still continue to water them with the dews of heaven and make the inhabitants of every denomination participate in the temporal and spiritual blessings of that people whose God is Jehovah.

G. Washington.





...another letter.




To the HEBREW CONGREGATIONS IN THE CITIES OF PHILADELPHIA, NEW YORK, CHARLESTON, AND RICHMOND.

Gentlemen:-The liberality of sentiment toward each other, which marks every political and religious denomination of men in this country, stands unparalleled in the history of nations.

The affection of such a people is a treasure beyond the reach of calculation, and the repeated proofs which my fellow-citizens have given of their attachment to me and approbation of my doings form the purest source of my temporal felicity.

The affectionate expressions of your address again excite my gratitude and receive my warmest acknowledgment.

The power and goodness of the Almighty, so strongly manifested in the events of our late glorious revolution, and His kind interposition in our behalf, have been no less visible in the establishment of our present equal government. In war He directed the sword, and in peace He has ruled in our councils. My agency in both has been guided by the best intentions and a sense of duty I owe to my country.

And as my exertions have hitherto been amply rewarded by the approbation of my fellow citizens, I shall endeavor to deserve a continuance of it by my future conduct.

May the same temporal and eternal blessings which you implore for me, rest upon your congregations.

G. Washington.






...and another.




Gentlemen:

While I received with much satisfaction your address replete with expressions of esteem, I rejoice in the opportunity of assuring you that I shall always retain grateful remembrance of the cordial welcome I experienced on my visit to Newport from all classes of citizens.

The reflection on the days of difficulty and danger which are past is rendered the more sweet from a consciousness that they are succeeded by days of uncommon prosperity and security.

If we have wisdom to make the best use of the advantages with which we are now favored, we cannot fail, under the just administration of a good government, to become a great and happy people.

The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy-a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship.

It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.

It would be inconsistent with the frankness of my character not to avow that I am pleased with your favorable opinion of my administration and fervent wishes for my felicity.

May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.

May the father of all mercies scatter light, and not darkness, upon our paths, and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in His own due time and way everlastingly happy.

G. Washington




I'm not Jewish, BTW, and no Jewish person told me to leave Christianity (although people like Mel did contribute to the decision). I studied ancient Roman history for a few years and made the decision myself.


75 posted on 08/27/2007 1:57:54 PM PDT by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt.)--has-been, will write Duncan Hunter in)
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To: Cvengr
FWIW, there is a moral imperative for commanders to mandate Christian exposure of their personnel on active duty.

Bull. Just who the hell do you think they are?

Unlike other scenarios in a free society, a military establishment mandates immediate obedience to orders from senior ranked officers and line officers in combat 24/7.

Exactly so. Which is why military officers have no business whatever "mandating" any religious exposure, Christian or otherwise, of their personnel. How do you propose forcing a Jewish officer to "expose" his troops to Christianity? Why should Jewish enlisted personnel listen to some crank, officer or otherwise, browbeat them with a Bible?

How, in a free society, could such a thing be even considered? the military may be apart from the rest of society, but military personel do not lose their religious rights upon entering the military. Indeed, their religious rights ought to be respected even more. Except, apparently, in your world.

The commanding officer therefore, has incurred a responsibility for his juniors to insure they are provided with an opportunity to be provided the Gospel if they are unbelievers and an opportunity to receive proper pastor-teacher guidance as believers while they are serving under the command of others.

Bull. The junior "unbelievers" may be indeed junior militarily, but an officer has no business whatever ordering religious observance of any kind. To suggest otherwise is utterly outrageous. Indeed, it would be conduct unbecoming an officer.

Both the gift of pastor-teach and the gift of evangelism are spiritual communication gifts given by God the Holy Spirit to certain believers.

Sez you. How about demonstrating they're right about religion before forcing it on their personnel?

The spiritual communication gift of pastor-teacher is given to a person to spiritually discern the appropriate part of the Word to be taught to the believers in his midst per God’s Plan, so that they are in the right place at the right time to perform by His Plan.

Demonstrate your version of your religion is right, and all others are wrong, and then convince everyone else in the country you're right. Until then you have no right whatever in forcing your religious beliefs upon anyone else, especially in the military.

How about respecting others' rights to their religion, or doesn't that concern you? How would you feel if you were ordered by your commanding officer to listen to lectures about religion that were diametrically opposed to your beliefs? You'd be in a poor position to object, because if you were ordered to listen, you'd have to obey orders, wouldn't you?

Likewise, the spiritual communication gift of evangelism is given to some believers to communicate to unbelievers.

Sez you ... again. "Gift"? What a joke. "Pestilence" is more like it. Next time, try a rhetorical trick that isn't so transparent.

Unlike the common citizen who incurs the responsibility to find his own pastor-teacher and continue obediently in faith through Christ in his daily studies, the military serviceman, is also under the legitimate authority of his commanding officer to obey 24/7 the orders of his seniors.

Which is why a military commander who attempted anything like what your suggesting would be courting a court-martial, and rightly so. How dare you suggest that members of the military be forced to endure forcible religious instruction.

Likewise, his seniors bear the responsibility to God to insure pastor-eachers are made available to the serviceman for their spiritual growth, only possibile through faith in Christ through daily intake of Bible doctrine by their appropriate pastor-teacher.

What utter trash. Has God ordained you to speak for Him? If so, please present your credentials. Until then, why not take Mark Twain's advice and be quiet and let others believe you an idiot rather than speak and remove all doubt.

Do you want to chase every Jewish serviceman/woman out of the military? That's the end result of what you're proposing. Please state it in so many words though. Then tell us why. You'll also drive out any service members who don't share your religious beliefs. I suspect that would be a majority of service members. But at least the 15 or 20 people remaining would be warriors in good standing with whatever it is you think God thinks.

Why is this not a military advantage?

Recent ecumenical perspectives fail to recognize the significance of God the Holy Spirit in the continuing sanctification of each and every believer, every day and moment of their lives.

Oh, no! Bad,Bad! ecumenicism! No doubt, YOU'LL save the day!

Nuts to you.

Many worldly officers believe they are able to substitute a worldly system of counterfeit belief independent of faith through Christ and still advance in good works.

It is not the business of officers to command religion. It is also not the business of officers to see that their men "advance in good works," whatever that may be. Where do you get this stuff?

Such thinking is good for nothingness, not only jeopardizing the sanctification and spiritual growth of their juniors, but also placing their commands at risk of divine discipline, being in the wrong place at the wrong time on the battlefield which is deadly.

Kindly show us where in the UCMJ, the oath an officer takes upon commission, or anywhere else, where "sanctification and spiritual growth of their(sic) juniors" is part of a commanding officer's job. Then demonstrate how only the most devout Christian officers have ever won battles. In light of the continuing existence of the State of Israel, this should be interesting."Stonewall" Jackson, perhaps the most devout officer ever in the U.S. or C.S. military was killed by friendly fire. Demonstrate how his death advanced his cause.

IMHO, if our commander-in-chief was remaining in fellowship through Christ in all things, he would relieve those in the chain of command who seek such counterfeit substitutes to God’s Plan and place the US armed forces at risk, without divine guidance through faith in Christ.

You're suggesting a religious purge of the military! Why not write your representatives in Congress and propose this?

I, on the other hand, suggest we all thank God you are in no position to put your ghastly notions into practice.

You might want to read up on the part of the Bill of Rights regarding "freedom of religion" and think about how your suggestions might run afoul of that. Then tell us why your judgment should be substituted for the Bill of Rights.

And just in case you're wondering, I was a commissioned officer in the U.S. Navy.

127 posted on 08/27/2007 8:35:38 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Cvengr

If anyone tried to ‘evangelize’ me, I’d tell him to FOAD. My faith is my business, not someone else’s.


186 posted on 08/30/2007 5:44:53 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what an Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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