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Vanishing England
Townhall.com ^ | Cal Thomas

Posted on 08/28/2007 4:19:23 AM PDT by Kaslin

"There'll Always Be an England" - popular World War II song

BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND - Perhaps there will not always be an England. An exodus unprecedented in modern times, coupled with a record influx of foreigners, is threatening to erode the character of the land of William Shakespeare and overpowering monarchs, a land that served as the cradle for much of American thought, law and culture.

The figures, making headlines in London newspapers, tell only part of the story. Between June 2005 and June 2006 nearly 200,000 British citizens chose to leave the country for a new life elsewhere. During the same period, at least 574,000 immigrants came to Britain. This number does not include the people who broke the law to get there, or the thousands unknown to the government. Britain's Office of National Statistics reports that middle-class Britons are beginning to move out of towns in southern England that have become home to large numbers of immigrants, thereby altering the character of neighborhoods that have remained unchanged for generations.

Britons give many reasons for leaving, but their stories share one commonality: life in Britain has become unbearable for them. They fear lawlessness and the threat of more terrorism from a growing Muslim population and the loss of a sense of Britishness, exacerbated by the growing refusal of public schools to teach the history and culture of the nation to the next generation. What it means to be British has been watered down in a plague of political correctness that has swept the country faster than hoof-and-mouth disease. Officials say they do not wish to "offend" others.

Hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers are about to be granted "amnesty" to stay in Britain. The government's approach is similar to that pursued by President Bush, who failed to win congressional approval for his amnesty plan. In Britain it appears likely to succeed. Migrants will be granted immediate access to many benefits, including top priority for council housing. Taxpayers will foot the bill.

The Shadow Home Secretary, David Davis, called the policy a "stealth amnesty." Again, in a comment reminiscent of the debate in America, Sir Andrew Green, chairman of Migrationwatch UK, said: "This is yet another example of the Alice in Wonderland world of human rights. If you break British law for long enough, you acquire rights not penalties."

British media have carried stories about an Italian immigrant who murdered a schoolteacher and was sentenced to life in prison. He is about to be released after serving just 12 years. The government wants to deport him to Italy, but a combination of British human rights legislation and European Union law are making it impossible to do so. This does not bode well for deporting Islamic terrorists who call for the overthrow of the government and incite young people to acts of violence.

Abraham Lincoln said no nation can exist half slave and half free. Neither can a nation be sustained if it allows conditions that result in mass emigration, while importing huge numbers of foreigners who come from backgrounds that do not practice assimilation or tolerance of other beliefs. When one factors in the high number of abortions (one in five pregnancies are aborted in England and Wales), the high birth rates of immigrants (15 times those of white Britons), it doesn't take a population expert to predict that the days of the England we have known may be numbered. The problem for Britain and the United States isn't just the change in demographics. It is the reluctance of both countries to inculcate the beliefs, history and, yes, religious ideals, which made our nations so successful that others wanted to come and be a part of them. The difference between many of the current immigrants and those of the past is that the previous ones wanted to become fully American or fully British. The current ones, in too many cases, would destroy what makes our countries unique. And the "leaders" of Britain and America refuse to stop it.

The greater tragedy is that the people of Britain have little say in any of this, so they are taking the road of last resort. They are leaving.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom
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To: NH Liberty

‘Just out of curiosity...Where do you live? And would you mind posting where the statistics came from, as well?’

Isle of Wight - 98.7% white anglo-saxon celtic christian yet only the 100th most ‘white’ community in the UK. . . . . . ;-)

The figures are from the 2001 UK Census, and since then immigration has reduced. You can probably look it up easiest in the CIA factbook:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html

and scroll down to the ethnic groups section.

Or you can go straight to the relevant section in the census itself:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/rank/ewwhite.asp

As you can see, although there a re a few areas that drop into the 50-60% the vast majority are way above 90%.

Just goes to show how your perceptions and the actual facts can differ greatly. :)


51 posted on 08/28/2007 7:22:55 AM PDT by britemp
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To: Greg F
Chesterton had Joyce's talent for words, but could also write a metaphorically rich and meaningful story.
52 posted on 08/28/2007 7:23:00 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Kaslin

ENgland has become enveloped with the muslim faith, and is doomed into extinction.


53 posted on 08/28/2007 7:23:52 AM PDT by television is just wrong (deport all illegal aliens NOW. Put all AMERICANS TO WORK FIRST. END WELFARE.i)
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To: driftless2

‘There are other re-creations throughout the U.S., but the English original is still the best.’

Fairs fair - the rocks are Welsh! :)

Personally I always think Stonehenge slightly less impressive than Avebury with it’s ‘Spaceship Runway’! :)


54 posted on 08/28/2007 7:25:03 AM PDT by britemp
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To: UKrepublican

I’m worried, UK. I really am.


55 posted on 08/28/2007 7:27:37 AM PDT by Bahbah
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To: padre35

‘The UK remains very prosperous on paper, why isn’t it felt throughout the region? Spoiled citizens or actual lack of a chance to “make it” even if they aren’t a PhD?’

Your source is as laughable as the person who wrote it all!

http://www.vexen.co.uk/vexen/index.html

Please, if you want to quote stats, stick to official ones, not interpretations by undergraduates and pressure groups.


56 posted on 08/28/2007 7:31:21 AM PDT by britemp
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To: Bahbah

I’m certainly concerned as well. Sadly so much of the public is too stupid and ignorant of what is going on in the country.


57 posted on 08/28/2007 7:32:17 AM PDT by UKrepublican
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To: yankeedame

‘If Britain had been an empire in fact as well as in name, then Ghandi would never have been a threat in either.’

Yes, I suppose having direct rule over one quarter of the worlds surface and one third of her population from a small wet island doesn’t really count as an Empire, despite being the largest one ever. . . . .


58 posted on 08/28/2007 7:33:31 AM PDT by britemp
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

‘Well...if things don’t work out and you’d care for a warmer climate, you’re welcome here in the Missouri Ozarks. Taxes and cost of living are low, fish and game are plentiful and we speak nearly the same language.’

Thank you for your generous offer, I enjoyed my time living in the US, but my home will always be England! :)


59 posted on 08/28/2007 7:35:26 AM PDT by britemp
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To: britemp

My source is laughable?

It’ what google brought me, do we now have to do background research on quoted sources as well as quoting them?

I’ve never heard of vexen, there numbers do seem to be in line with what I have run across on the ‘Net though.


60 posted on 08/28/2007 7:35:35 AM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile.)
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To: britemp

Where did you live in the US ?


61 posted on 08/28/2007 7:36:46 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Go Hawks !)
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Comment #62 Removed by Moderator

To: Wallace T.

‘I must question some of the numbers in this chart. First off, Nigeria is 50% Muslim, making a church attendance figure of 89% rather unrealistic, unless mosque attendance is counted. Ireland’s numbers look excessively high as well. While high church attendance numbers may have been characteristic of traditionally Catholic Ireland until about 40 years ago, the effects of secularism, liberal theology in the Catholic Church, and recent immigration from other countries (presently one out of ten residents of Ireland is of foreign origin) make the claim of 84% church attendance very suspect, certainly on a weekly basis. OTOH, the statistic for 2% church attendance in Russia seems low. This number may be based on a citation from the Russian Interior Ministry, which I found in Wikipedia, that said weekly church attendance is less than 2%. Even if his number on weekly attendance is accurate, the other statistics, including the one for the United States, may be based on monthly attendance.’

By all means question away, but unless you can provide figures with a similarly strong provenance from a respected source, you’re just guessing.


63 posted on 08/28/2007 7:38:41 AM PDT by britemp
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To: padre35

‘My source is laughable?’

Yes. Have you clicked on my link? :)

‘do we now have to do background research on quoted sources as well as quoting them?’

Only if you want them taken seriously. Try to quote from official sources rather than those with an axe to grind.

‘It’ what google brought me’

Despite the similar name, Google is not Gospel my friend! :)


64 posted on 08/28/2007 7:43:20 AM PDT by britemp
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To: Kaslin

Isn’t this the whole premise of Londonistan?
http://www.amazon.com/Londonistan-Melanie-Phillips/dp/1594031444/ref=pd_bbs_1/105-2110231-0042044?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188312205&sr=8-1


65 posted on 08/28/2007 7:43:56 AM PDT by anton
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

‘Where did you live in the US ?’

Mainly in Chesapeake, VA with a stint in Miami and San Diego. You’ve got the whole of Kentucky between there and the Ozarks so I never got there, sorry! )


66 posted on 08/28/2007 7:49:02 AM PDT by britemp
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To: JackRyanCIA

‘Englandstan’

As we’ve already shown England to have a higher percentage white anglo saxon christian population than America, Americanistan is more apt.


67 posted on 08/28/2007 7:50:45 AM PDT by britemp
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To: britemp

‘‘My source is laughable?’

You obviously didn’t click on his biography page or you would’ve realised all your quotations on Christianity were from a source who describes his religion as ‘Satanist’! :D


68 posted on 08/28/2007 7:53:25 AM PDT by britemp
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To: All

There have been countless articles like this one in the UK press over the last few months. They are all sensationalist and deviod of fact and deliberately ignore other facts. Just a few points:

1)As britempt has noted, most emigrants return to the UK after a few years or less. We live in an age of mass migration and most Western countries are experiencing the same thing.

2)The article suggests that people are leaving the UK because of immigration (obviously the irony of them then being immigrants themselves doesn’t register). Britain is an overwhelmingly while, anglo-saxon country still. The notion that the threat of Islam is forcing people out is laughable. Muslims form 2% of the UK population and despite the tragic terror attacks on 7/7, the UK population faced a far larger threat in the face of Irish nationalists over the past few decades.

3)Many, many people emigrated from the UK in the 1960s (when according to papers such as the Daily Mail crime didn’t exist). They weren’t ‘fleeing’ anything, so why must modern emigrants be said to?

4)Crime in the UK and gang culture is a concern. However, these do not compare in any way to the levels of murder and gang warfare in some US cities. In many ways, the UK is just starting to develop elements of this culture (decades behind the US). This is not a criticism of the US, just an observation


69 posted on 08/28/2007 7:55:14 AM PDT by uksupport1
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To: All

There have been countless articles like this one in the UK press over the last few months. They are all sensationalist and deviod of fact and deliberately ignore other facts. Just a few points:

1)As britemp has noted, most emigrants return to the UK after a few years or less. We live in an age of mass migration and most Western countries are experiencing the same thing.

2)The article suggests that people are leaving the UK because of immigration (obviously the irony of them then being immigrants themselves doesn’t register). Britain is an overwhelmingly while, anglo-saxon country still. The notion that the threat of Islam is forcing people out is laughable. Muslims form 2% of the UK population and despite the tragic terror attacks on 7/7, the UK population faced a far larger threat in the face of Irish nationalists over the past few decades.

3)Many, many people emigrated from the UK in the 1960s (when according to papers such as the Daily Mail crime didn’t exist). They weren’t ‘fleeing’ anything, so why must modern emigrants be said to?

4)Crime in the UK and gang culture is a concern. However, these do not compare in any way to the levels of murder and gang warfare in some US cities. In many ways, the UK is just starting to develop elements of this culture (decades behind the US). This is not a criticism of the US, just an observation


70 posted on 08/28/2007 7:55:22 AM PDT by uksupport1
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Comment #71 Removed by Moderator

To: Kaslin

bttt


72 posted on 08/28/2007 7:57:14 AM PDT by HockeyPop
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To: JackRyanCIA

‘America is not more apt at all. Europe will fall long before we do.’

I agree with you, it will. But Britain won’t.

‘Not saying America isn’t trying though.’

In both our countries, the greatest enemy is the enemy within. Not terrorists, just ignorant apathetic citizens.


73 posted on 08/28/2007 8:02:48 AM PDT by britemp
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To: britemp

‘You obviously didn’t click on his biography page’

LOL! Replying to myself is the first sign of madness! :)


74 posted on 08/28/2007 8:04:12 AM PDT by britemp
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To: yankeedame

It’s true. If Britain had been a real empire, Ghandi would have been hanged, drawn, and quartered, and that would be that.


75 posted on 08/28/2007 8:04:43 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: britemp
The UK is still 92.9% white anglo saxon celtic christian so compared to most countries we still have a long way to go before we disappear completely. ;-)"

When I googled the UK national statistics site it told me that 7.9% are from a "non white ethnic group".

Given the way states tip toe around the subject I think your Celtic count is a tad inflated. Besides, at least over here, Semitic, Persian, etc. are not 'non white', Hispanics can choose to be either, and "white" is not "Celtic".

Neither Hispanic nor islamic are ethnicities for purposes of a modern census.
("Hispanic" doesn't even make sense, but nevermind)

Please do not disappear, we need you as much as you need us.

76 posted on 08/28/2007 8:05:51 AM PDT by norton
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To: uksupport1

‘We live in an age of mass migration and most Western countries are experiencing the same thing.’

Very true. In just the little island of Britain there are more than a quarter of a million American ex-pats living and when you ask them why they moved to Britain they invariably say because of US crime levels or President Bush! :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3956061.stm


77 posted on 08/28/2007 8:09:06 AM PDT by britemp
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To: britemp
The home page for NationMaster.com states that it draws its statistics "from such sources as the CIA World Factbook, UN, and OECD." Assuning the primary sources are valid, which must be questioned in the first place when one is dealing with UN statistics due to the leftist bias of that body, the issue is whether NationMaster interprets data correctly. There is no evidence that NationMaster conducted an impartial, scientificly valid survey of church attendance in the many nations that are represnted in this chart. Unless such evidence exists, it is justifiable, and indeed necessary, to question the statistics you cited.

In any case, even if we assume the validity of the NationMaster statistics, numerous other researchers (Barna, Gallup) have shown that Americans adhere to major points of Christian doctrine at a higher percentage than Europeans, especially Western Europeans. If you were to calculate a weighted average of the Western European nations cited in the NationMaster chart, the church attendance figures in the U.S. would be higher. That being said, my main point was not an attack on European agnosticism and atheism but the clear evidence that American religious belief is heading in the direction of Western Europe.

78 posted on 08/28/2007 8:12:33 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: mtbopfuyn

I believe that Jamaica is quite a popular destination. A lot of immigrants are, apparently, emigrating now.

Strange eh?


79 posted on 08/28/2007 8:12:45 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Daveinyork

‘It’s true. If Britain had been a real empire, Ghandi would have been hanged, drawn, and quartered, and that would be that.’

No, you’re confusing a constitutionally democratic monarchical empire with a totalitarian dictatorship. Everything we did in Empire had to be passed by parliament. We couldn’t just go killing opposition leaders because they disagreed with us. That’s the job of the CIA in central America! :)


80 posted on 08/28/2007 8:13:58 AM PDT by britemp
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Comment #81 Removed by Moderator

To: britemp
"For example, having read the media would most Americans believe . . . that Britain has admitted fewer muslim immigrants since 1950 than the US has since 1995?"

I would. My mom, who lives in Orange County, California, one of the most conservative places on earth, is less than a mile from one of the biggest mosques in the US, in Anaheim, built brand spanking new. I live in northern Virginia, and women in not just the hijab scarves, but the full-on "niqab", that covers everything but the eyes is an everyday sight. EVERYDAY -- these gals are in the grocery stores and banks, nothing but their eyes showing. Five miles from the nation's capitol. We're in denial over here in the US about the number of muslims in our midst.

but the views of Britain given abroad by the MSM are highly misleading.

What? The MSM is not telling the whole truth about something? I'm shocked, just shocked! < /sarcasm

82 posted on 08/28/2007 8:15:15 AM PDT by justanotherfreeper
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To: norton

‘Given the way states tip toe around the subject I think your Celtic count is a tad inflated. Besides, at least over here, Semitic, Persian, etc. are not ‘non white’, Hispanics can choose to be either, and “white” is not “Celtic”.’

In UK stats Semitic and Persian are non-white, Hispanics from Spain are white, those from the Americas are non-white. Celtic is very white, bordering on blue! :)

‘Please do not disappear, we need you as much as you need us.’

Hear, hear! I dare say we’ll manage a few more millenia! :)


83 posted on 08/28/2007 8:18:01 AM PDT by britemp
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To: britemp

“Google is not Gospel my friend”

Touche’


84 posted on 08/28/2007 8:18:28 AM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile.)
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To: britemp; padre35

Food for thought. More people attend church on sunday than stand on the football terraces on a saturday. That has always been true and it is still true today...


85 posted on 08/28/2007 8:20:53 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Wallace T.

‘The home page for NationMaster.com states that it draws its statistics “from such sources as the CIA World Factbook, UN, and OECD.” Assuning the primary sources are valid, which must be questioned in the first place when one is dealing with UN statistics due to the leftist bias of that body, the issue is whether NationMaster interprets data correctly. There is no evidence that NationMaster conducted an impartial, scientificly valid survey of church attendance in the many nations that are represnted in this chart. Unless such evidence exists, it is justifiable, and indeed necessary, to question the statistics you cited.’

A fair point, but in lieu of better ones, these are the fairest I can find. I prefer an argument backed by slightly biased sources, than no sources at all or even worse, highly biased ones.

‘numerous other researchers (Barna, Gallup) have shown that Americans adhere to major points of Christian doctrine at a higher percentage than Europeans, especially Western Europeans.’

You simply cannot make such judgements about ‘Europe’. Some European countries go to church far more than America does, some far less. Different European countries have different intrepretations of what Christian doctrine is that disagrees with US Christian doctrine. No-one could’ve been a more devout Christian than my maternal grandmother, but her puritan upbringing saw no need for a middleman, her faith connected her straight to God without the ritualistic theatre (as she saw it) of a church.

To me and I venture to suggest, many other Britons, churches are for weddings, funerals and fetes, private faith is the real Christianity.


86 posted on 08/28/2007 8:29:35 AM PDT by britemp
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To: JackRyanCIA

‘So we import people...Muslims in your case.’

Nope. We import far fewer muslims than the US does. We import lots of Poles, but not muslims. We’ve had more Poles come to the UK since 2003 than we have total muslim population. The UK has 1.7m muslims, the US has somewhere between 6m and 20m depending on who you believe including 2.1m ‘good’ african-americans who have converted to islam. And we all know by now it’s the converts you have to watch the most closely! :(


87 posted on 08/28/2007 8:34:40 AM PDT by britemp
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To: Vanders9

‘More people attend church on sunday than stand on the football terraces on a saturday. That has always been true and it is still true today...’

Yes, they pray and pray and still no more goals are scored! :)


88 posted on 08/28/2007 8:36:21 AM PDT by britemp
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To: britemp
That’s the job of the CIA in central America! :)

Yet more evidence they can't do their job properly.

89 posted on 08/28/2007 8:41:23 AM PDT by LexBaird (Tyrannosaurus Lex, unapologetic carnivore)
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To: Wallace T.

Among the young people I know mostly university/college crowd none go to church on a regular basis.. and don’t seem to believe in god. The boys are proud of what western civilization has achieved and want to stop mass migration of third world peoples, but the girls you get the usual marxist arguments about all the bad things we have done to third world peoples, and downplaying our achievements and supporting immigration.

On the other hand most christian denominations are supporting the most liberal immigration policies.. and in many cases inviting, sheltering, hiding illegal migrants to America.


90 posted on 08/28/2007 8:41:27 AM PDT by ran20
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Comment #91 Removed by Moderator

To: Kaslin

Liberals despise western culture, and will do anything to destroy it.


92 posted on 08/28/2007 9:25:20 AM PDT by stinkerpot65 (Global warming is a Marxist lie.)
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To: JackRyanCIA

I haven’t read Steyn’s book, but will try too. However, a title like ‘America Alone : The End of the World as We Know It’doesn’t really suggest a rational exploration of the facts. It suggests a man walking down the street with a sandwich board reading ‘The End is Nigh!’. We do face a very real threat from Islamic terror (as tragic events around the world have illustrated). However, in some regards too much hysteria has greeted the doubtless dangerous threat of Islamic terrorism from some quarters. Just a few points if I may:

1)The facts remain that in the UK immigration from Eastern Europe is forming the largest body of migration at present.

2)The UK’s muslim population is 2-3%. Their higher birthrates will have likely been swamped by the influx of Eastern Europena workers alone.

3)Having commuted into London (or ‘Londonistan’) for the past three years I have come to see it as a truly international city. Most immigrants to the UK live in the area of London. However, immigrants I have seen have been from Eastern Europe, Western Europe, China, Africa (a really diverse bunch). Muslims are a small minority even in London. The fact that they tend to ghettoise can give false impressions sometimes.

4) Britain has been dealing with far more sophisticated and lethal terrorism than that tragically directed against us by Islamists in the past and has always prevailed. Sometimes authors such as Steyn seem to forget that terrorism existed before the tragic events of 9/11. Please don’t get me wrong. 9/11 was an act of unspeakable horror and tragegy and my heart goes out to you in the US for it. However, as a general rule Islamic terrorism was easily as prevalent in the 1970s (if not more so) than today.We must keep alert to the threat no doubt. But hysteria will get us nowhere. One must ask why Steyn only saw fit to sell his apocalyptic vision after the War on Terror began. If the threat was so clear, then why didn’t he publish his work before the tragic events of 9/11?


93 posted on 08/28/2007 9:48:02 AM PDT by uksupport1
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To: britemp

Thanks for the article mate: that is very intetesting!


94 posted on 08/28/2007 9:49:50 AM PDT by uksupport1
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To: JackRyanCIA

‘You have been listening to CAIR. I think you need to get your facts straight and quit listening to Liberal and Islamo tripe.’

So set me straight with some facts about your muslim population. You’re terribly confident on numbers considering your open borders.

‘Look London is frequently refered to as Londonstan. There is a reason for that. It isn’t me saying it, it’s a lot of people. And thost firecrackers that went off over there should wake you up. No I think you are in denial. I suggested a book, I again suggest you read it.’

London does have a high asian population, I didn’t argue with Londonistan, I argued with Englandistan. 45% of Englands minorities live in London. London has a population of 7.7m people, 600,000 of whom are muslim. I suspect comparing NYC with America would produce similar results.

As for Mark Steyns isolationist fantasy, I read two thirds before it became bizarre and self-serving. No wonder he has been sacked from all his columns.


95 posted on 08/28/2007 10:42:16 AM PDT by britemp
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To: uksupport1

‘Thanks for the article mate: that is very intetesting!’

My pleasure - we are the thin red line here!

I feel genuine warmth for most Americans I meet, but there is nonetheless a hardcore here who much prefer to revel in international schadenfreude than to consider the reality of the situation in the Uk and US.


96 posted on 08/28/2007 10:46:00 AM PDT by britemp
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To: Kaslin

bttt


97 posted on 08/28/2007 10:59:37 AM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we write in marble. JHuett)
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To: NH Liberty

We love P&G Tips. Whole Foods carries it now, so we have no trouble finding it any more.


98 posted on 08/28/2007 11:10:03 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: poobear

The Prince of Wales, Charles, has commissioned the Westminister Cathedral to stage a new musical work based on Qur’an — it sets the 99 names of Allah to music, to be intoned over an hour and a half with choir, full orchestra and Tibetan gongs.


99 posted on 08/28/2007 11:23:48 AM PDT by Beckwith (dhimmicrats and the liberal media have .chosen sides -- Islamofascism)
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To: britemp

I feel exactly the same as you do mate. I have nothing but admiration for the US. It’s reaction to 9/11 was inspirational and it is an inspiring country.

I’m glad that most Freepers have admiration for the UK also. I think that our two countries are a great force for good in the world.

In this regard, I think that authors such as Steyn and Phillips do a great disservive to both the US and Great Britain by predicting the end of Western civilisation. We’re all made of sterner stuff than that.I’ve just got an image of them waking up in the morning and running to the window to see if, today, the world really is ending.


100 posted on 08/28/2007 11:26:08 AM PDT by uksupport1
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