John Linder On Neal Boortz CSPAN To Discuss Fair Tax

[Man50D]

A message from John Linder:

On Wednesday morning, I will join my good friend Neal Boortz on his program to discuss the FairTax and the great strides we have made. However, as an added bonus, C-SPAN has traveled to Atlanta to film the show and air it live. Not only can you listen live on AM 750 in Atlanta, or via the internet at WSB radio, but tomorrow you can watch the interview on C-SPAN between 10:15 a.m. and 11:15 a.m. Please tune in.

John

[Man50D]

Fair Tax ping!

[RC2]

It bothers me when people only talk about the Fair Tax idea. What happened to the Flat Tax? I think it’s dangerous to only talk about one system as though we will all accept it. So far, I think the Fair Tax idea can get out of control real quick. A Flat Tax system can get our government all the money they would ever need and it can be kept at only 10%.........from what I understand. We need more options instead of ONLY the Fair Tax forced upon us.

[ovrtaxt]

No thanks.

The problem is the taxation of income. Provides way too many opportunities and methods of control for power freaks.

[MrB]

Taxation of income, no matter what the rate, is intrusive and immoral.
It violates your privacy, under penalty of incarceration and fine.

Income is a measure of how productive you are - what you add TO the economy. Punishing income through taxation is therefore immoral.

Sales taxes tax consumption.

The problem is, you get people piddle fartin’ around about the “23% inclusive vs 30% exclusive” BS and not about the concepts outlined above.

[Always Right]

Taxation of income, no matter what the rate, is intrusive and immoral.

The fairtax is a gross income tax on retailers and service providers.

[MrB]

It’s a tax on sales, not a tax on income, for the retailers.

Their income is their net profit, not their sales, and they already have to track their sales due to local & state sales taxes.

[Always Right]

It’s a tax on sales, not a tax on income, for the retailers.

From a retailer or service providers perspective, it is a tax on gross income.

[Man50D]

I think it’s dangerous to only talk about one system as though we will all accept it.

People are free to choose to talk about any alternative tax plan but more people are choosing The Fair Tax.

What happened to the Flat Tax?

There are several different Flat Tax bills before Congress but the total cosponsors combined for these bills is far less than The Fair Tax as people are choosing to have their politicians endorse The Fair Tax.

I think the Fair Tax idea can get out of control real quick.

Care to give more detail instead of a vague statement?

A Flat Tax system can get our government all the money they would ever need and it can be kept at only 10%.........from what I understand.

What you may not understand is any Flat Tax proposal on income still maintains the IRS. The Fair Tax will abolish the IRS. The Fair Tax is a flat tax because it will be a single rate tax. The difference is The Fair tax is applies to consumption than income.

Congress passed what was essentially flat tax in 1913. , The first tax ranged from merely 1% on the first $20,000 of taxable income and was only 7% on incomes above $500,000. So few people earned above the latter figure that the only tax paid was 1%. . Today, more than 80% of the population is under the income tax.

We need more options instead of ONLY the Fair Tax forced upon us.

There are more options. As I stated above there are several Flat tax bills before Congress but they are gaining far less support than The Fair Tax.

[wgflyer]

It bothers me when people only talk about the Fair Tax idea. What happened to the Flat Tax?

The flat tax is just like any other scheme that keeps the iRS. The FairTax is unique. It is a good thing that you investigate other propositions for tax reform, but note that the FairTax is the only one that eliminates the IRS, withholding, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, and any other federal tax on income. This being a FairTax thread, that’s what we talk about. But there are those out there who feel that other systems would be better and they frequently put their opinions forth on these FairTax threads. Some of them make pretty good arguments, based upon the natural uncertainty principle and “unintended consequences”. Often they speak from the perspective of those who have carved out special niches in the system, sorted out all their deductions and arranged their lives to pay less tax than you and maximize their profits. The FairTax scares them because it takes that advantage away. It also puts tax lawyers’ and accountants’ jobs in a somewhat precarious situation. There is a tremendous amount of fraud institutionalized in the IRS and it’s code. The FairTax would cause a lot of initial confusion and panic among those who build their lives around the current system. They are understandably nervous about such a drastic change.

If you use an open mind, you realize that no scheme is without unintended consequences, none are without the possibility of fraud and corruption, and none of them are cost free to the taxpayer. The single difference between the FairTax and all of the others is that the FairTax takes the power of government to simply take your money whenever they see fit and puts you in control of your money, all of it, from the Federal perspective. It doesn’t change anything regarding state and local taxes. We have to deal with that on a state by state basis. Many use that as an excuse not to implement it. To me, that’s like saying, “why put this guy in jail for robbing you when this other guy is just gonna take his place?”. Pretty poor argument, to me. Why not incarcerate the both of em? All in good time, of course.

By all means, investigate the other schemes. But compare them by their actual implementations rather than by the fear scenarios projected by opponents. Any consequence is possible in the mind of a detractor of any one of the scenarios. But we are pretty certain, now, of what the IRS has done to us. That’s no “scenario”. it’s real.

[ari-freedom]

People are free to choose to talk about any alternative tax plan but more people are choosing The Fair Tax.
-
and more countries are choosing the flat tax. Czech republic and Bulgaria are the most recent adopters.
The flat tax is more than just a theoretical idea -it is tested and proven to work in the real world.

[Arcy]

AWESOME!

[redlocks322]

I have decided that starting Jan. 1st 2007 - I am going to save every receipt and allocate what I pay in taxes for every purchase, service, etc. in addition to tracking all of the tax deducted from my paycheck. I am really interested to know just how much “tax” I pay - whether it’s federal, state, county or city. I think it will be a very good way to teach my teenage boys about being taxed.

[Principled]

A Flat Tax system can get our government all the money they would ever need and it can be kept at only 10%.........

That would be nice! But a flat income tax rate would be much higher [like 32% including payroll].

If it's the low rate you like, me too! But whatever the income tax rate, the nrst rate will be lower. That's because the nrst base is larger AND there will be more payers.

The leading flat tax has a marginal rate of 17% on individuals, plus business tax costs- which will be hidden in prices as they are now, plus employee payroll taxes. It comes to around 32.1% inclusive [or 47% exclusive]. The nrst has an inclusive rate of 23% [or 29.87% exclusive].

[Principled]

The fairtax is a gross income tax on retailers and service providers.

You're wrong.

You could describe the nrst as a tax on gross revenue from retail sales and be ok - but income is irrelevant to the tax on business.

Why would you think the nrst taxes income?

[Principled]

I think a major improvement in going from an income tax to an nrst is that it will be soooooo much easier for people to feel their tax bite.

As it is today, large numbers of people do not feel they're being overtaxed. They don't recognize higher prices due to business tax costs [payroll taxes, income taxes, compliance costs] and they don't "feel" the pain of money withheld - hell, they never did have it!

It's a trick the socialists use to keep an ever-expanding government fed. Once people feel the tax, spending will come down.

[n-tres-ted]

The flat tax ideas still require every taxpayer to file a tax return with the IRS, which is presently about 150 million returns per year. The Fair Tax requires only retailers to file returns, which means about 15 million returns, and most of the revenues will be from about 700 retailers.

In the present tax system, the complexity is in the deductions from gross income. The flat tax tries to simplify that concept by making every business fit in the same hole. Deductions are complex by their nature, because business innovates in ways to produce revenues. As has been the case in the past, politics would provide more complexity under a flat tax to accommodate the needs of business.

IMO the Fair Tax is far superior. And it is an actual piece of legislation that you can read and understand.

[lucysmom]

The flat tax tries to simplify that concept by making every business fit in the same hole. Deductions are complex by their nature, because business innovates in ways to produce revenues.

On the otherhand, the NRST tries to fit every individual into the same hole.

[n-tres-ted]

Actually, the Fair Tax does not try to fit every individual into the same hole. Yes, the Fair Tax provides the same amount of monthly prebate to every household of the same size. But that amount of prebate has very different effects on the household's effective tax rate, depending upon the total amount of spending for consumption. If monthly consumption spending for the household is $1 million, the prebate will have an almost negligible effect on the effective tax rate. On the other hand, for a household with total spending at the poverty level, the prebate makes the effective tax rate zero. For those below the poverty line, the prebate gives them positive spendable income. For those above the poverty line, their effective tax rate will be lower than their present tax rate. Why can all current taxpayers be sure their taxes under the Fair Tax will be lower than presently? Because the Fair Tax will require those who pay no taxes presently ($345 billion annually in the Tax Gap, and 2 to 3 times that amount in the underground economy) to pay their fair share at the cash register. Even those in the underground economy would be better off under the Fair Tax, because their tax payments would not be overly burdensome and they could live without the threat of going to federal prison.

[Tatze]

Any system can get out of control. A 10% flat tax sounds great, until the Democrats get control and decide it should be 15%, or 20% for the rich. So much for the flat tax.

The best thing about the fair tax is that you decide when to pay taxes. If they raise the rate too much, cut your taxes by cutting your spending.