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Mammoth graveyard may someday be open to public
Star-Telegram ^ | 9-20-07 | R.A. DYER

Posted on 09/20/2007 6:21:38 AM PDT by Dysart

WACO -- Not far from modest suburban homes in the middle of some thick Texas woods lies a secret boneyard.

Surrounded by a tall chain-link fence and covered by what looks like a red-and-white circus tent, the site contains the remains of towering monsters. Remains of at least 25 mammoths, signs of a big saber-toothed cat and a long extinct camel have been found at the site.

This is the Waco Mammoth Site, a collection of prehistoric fossils embedded in the dirt not far from the Bosque River. The site could be a potent educational resource if it were not off-limits to schoolchildren. It's been called a national treasure in the heart of Texas, but it remains closed to the public.

On Wednesday, reporters were allowed to tour the backwoods site, a rare event. Waco city leaders and curators from Baylor University are in the process of creating a new management plan for the site and hope to open it to the public soon. They are seeking public comment and financial support for the creation of a permanent structure to protect the fragile artifacts. That led to the media tour, although reporters had to agree not to disclose its exact location in order to protect the artifacts from looters.

"It's a nationally significant site for this time period. You don't find something like this anywhere else in the nation," said National Park Service official Russ Whitlock, who joined university and city officials at the site.

Unusual dig

"It's a wonderful site, it's amazing. I've worked at a lot of sites and you don't see places like this," said Anita Benedict, collections manager of the Mayborn Museum Complex at Baylor, which manages the site.

At the middle of the dig, which is sunk into the clay about two feet below a makeshift boardwalk, are the bones of a massive Columbian mammoth. Big, even for a mammoth, the bull probably stood 14 feet tall at the shoulders, which is about 30 percent larger than a modern-day elephant. Its 6-foot tusks are clearly visible, as are its ribs, a molar, and bones from its front and hind legs.

Benedict said that the bull was found with the remains of a calf in its tusks, as if it were attempting to lift the young mammoth from danger. She said a female mammoth was also found with a young calf in its tusks. One of the mammoths had a broken rib, which Benedict said appeared to indicate some sort of conflict with another mammoth.

"It looks like they got into a defensive circle," Benedict said. It's unclear, however, why they all died together and why the site contains such a rich collection of fossils.

"We're not sure what happened but there are hypotheses," she said. "There was a flood, they got trapped in the ravine and couldn't get out of it. The mud here is very sticky."

In all, 25 mammoths were found at the site, and more may remain buried, she said. The remains of 16 mammoths have been removed and are in storage at the Mayborn Museum. The museum features an exhibit duplicating the skeletal remains of the bull mammoth with the calf in its tusks.

Discovered in 1978

The site was discovered by a pair of amateur fossil hunters in 1978. They reported it to Baylor University, and by 1990 experts had identified, preserved and removed the remains of 15 mammoths. Later an additional 10 were found.

The fossils date back about 68,000 years to a time when central Texas had fewer trees and more grassland. One National Park Service expert said the area probably then seemed more like the Serengeti plains in Africa, and was probably a bit cooler and wetter.

Some of the proposed site management plans contemplate turning the site over to the federal government so it could become part of the National Park Service inventory. A 2002 law signed by President Bush calls for the completion of a study to determine how best to protect the resource, how best to allow public use, and the feasibility of adding it to the federal park system.

A National Park Service official estimated Wednesday that it could cost about $1.5 million annually to operate the site as park. But like the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, the National Park Service has faced funding shortfalls and so may look to partner with local authorities.

Fundraising campaign

But even without the National Park Service's involvement, Baylor University and city officials hope to have the site open to the public on a limited basis within a year or so. A spokeswoman for Mayborn Museum at Baylor said supporters have so far raised more than $1 million in donations, which will be used for the construction of a building and restrooms.

The spokeswoman said boosters hope to raise a total of $2.3 million and then begin the painstaking process of building a structure that will help protect the bones without damaging the dig.

At the same time, officials conducting the special resource study should soon be reporting back to Congress about the feasibility of turning the Waco Mammoth Site over to the National Park Service.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; dig; flood; godsgravesglyphs; graveyard; mammoth; tourism

1 posted on 09/20/2007 6:21:44 AM PDT by Dysart
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To: Dysart

2 posted on 09/20/2007 6:23:17 AM PDT by Dysart
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To: Dysart

I have been to the Mammoth Site in Hot Springs, SD.

http://www.mammothsite.com/

It is incredible to know that such animals walked our land and how different our climate was.


3 posted on 09/20/2007 6:25:26 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (The Democratic Party will not exist in a few years....we are watching history unfold before us.)
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To: blam; SunkenCiv

Ping!.....


4 posted on 09/20/2007 6:29:12 AM PDT by Red Badger (ALL that CARBON in ALL that oil & coal was once in the atmospere. We're just putting it back!)
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To: Erik Latranyi
It is incredible to know that such animals walked our land and how different our climate was.

No no no no no! Today is the hottest our planet has ever been! Get with the program. Sheesh!

5 posted on 09/20/2007 6:34:15 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: Erik Latranyi

30% larger than elephants is damned impressive.


6 posted on 09/20/2007 6:42:56 AM PDT by Dysart
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To: Dysart
"We're not sure what happened but there are hypotheses," she said. "There was a flood,

Waiting for the Darwinists to show up.

7 posted on 09/20/2007 7:46:44 AM PDT by PAR35
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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone, Allen West, and Simon Warwick-Smith


8 posted on 09/20/2007 9:31:53 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, September 12, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 75thOVI; AFPhys; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; ...
 
Catastrophism
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·

9 posted on 09/20/2007 9:33:32 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, September 12, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Red Badger; blam; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks Red Badger.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


10 posted on 09/20/2007 9:35:34 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, September 12, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yep. That’s a hugh graveyard, alright.


11 posted on 09/20/2007 9:38:32 AM PDT by Monkey Face (If you didn't know how old you are, how old would you be?)
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To: Nightshift

ping...


12 posted on 09/20/2007 9:39:38 AM PDT by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Catastrophe book ping


13 posted on 09/20/2007 9:58:33 AM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: Monkey Face

I tusk don’t know if I’ll ever get to visit.


14 posted on 09/20/2007 10:02:51 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, September 12, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Dysart
although reporters had to agree not to disclose its exact location in order to protect the artifacts from looters.

New York Times any day now?

15 posted on 09/20/2007 10:17:42 AM PDT by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: Dysart

“There was a flood...”


16 posted on 09/20/2007 10:30:54 AM PDT by Squidpup ("Fight the Good Fight")
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To: SunkenCiv

I eared it would be pretty awesome.


17 posted on 09/20/2007 10:32:39 AM PDT by Monkey Face (If you didn't know how old you are, how old would you be?)
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To: Dysart

There are many sabertooth tiger carcasses, sort of intact, and many mammoth bones here in Fairbanks, too. The gold miners brought them up in the first half of the past century. There’s no park, you can just walk around some of the old goldmines.


18 posted on 09/20/2007 10:36:22 AM PDT by RightWhale (Snow above 2000', oil above 82: unexplained)
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To: Dysart

Tusk, tusk! More mammoth news is herd from.


19 posted on 09/20/2007 10:38:48 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: Monkey Face

:’) Sad that their lives were truncated.


20 posted on 09/20/2007 11:37:56 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, September 12, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: gleeaikin

I’m nearly through reading it, it’s mostly excellent, and pertinent here because of mass extinction of the mammoths.


21 posted on 09/20/2007 11:38:56 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, September 12, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: PAR35
Waiting for the Darwinists to show up.

How long ago did the flood of Noah occur?

...The fossils date back about 68,000 years to a time when central Texas had fewer trees and more grassland.

22 posted on 09/20/2007 11:45:13 AM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (After six years of George W. Bush I long for the honesty and sincerity of the Clinton Administration)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yes, but it’s a good tail.

;o]


23 posted on 09/20/2007 11:50:39 AM PDT by Monkey Face (If you didn't know how old you are, how old would you be?)
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To: Dysart

It sounds like they think that the mammoths were protecting their calves from a flood, but what were the saber tooth cat and a camel doing there with them?

And there might be more mammoths there as well? How big of a flood was that?


24 posted on 09/20/2007 12:01:45 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publici scholae)
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To: Dysart

My neighbor found a 12 ft long tusk on his property in Bell county Tx!

I’ve seen it! (Too bad he ruined it with ‘epoxy’ glue...)


25 posted on 09/20/2007 12:07:10 PM PDT by evets (beer)
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To: Eaker
New York Times any day now?

Yep, time to blow the lid off this thing.

26 posted on 09/20/2007 12:09:27 PM PDT by Dysart
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To: SunkenCiv
Very impressive site!
27 posted on 09/20/2007 12:10:00 PM PDT by colorado tanker (I'm unmoderated - just ask Bill O'Reilly)
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To: TruthConquers

I don’t really know; those questions sprung to my mind as well. Maybe the camel and saber tooth cat(tiger) were somehow washed down to this location later?


28 posted on 09/20/2007 12:14:00 PM PDT by Dysart
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To: Dysart

I sure hope they open this to the public. My pet mammoth told me he wants to be buried here with a few of his old friends.


29 posted on 09/20/2007 12:16:23 PM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: 17th Miss Regt
I sure hope they open this to the public. My pet mammoth told me he wants to be buried here with a few of his old friends.

I woolly expected more from you.

30 posted on 09/20/2007 12:21:24 PM PDT by Dysart
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To: Dysart

I hope they release the location. I’m eager to pack my trunk and journey down...


31 posted on 09/20/2007 12:26:25 PM PDT by Toirdhealbheach Beucail (Am fear nach gheibh na h-airm 'n am na sith, cha bith iad aige 'nam a chogaidh)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
The fossils date back about 68,000 years to a time when central Texas had fewer trees and more grassland.

A condition which still exists for much of Texas. According to secular scientists, there were still mammoths and ground sloths running around North America as recently as 10 or 11,000 years ago. The evidence here is not inconsistent with the animals having been overwhelmed by a flood, so the only question is dating.

32 posted on 09/20/2007 1:35:12 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35
A condition which still exists for much of Texas. According to secular scientists, there were still mammoths and ground sloths running around North America as recently as 10 or 11,000 years ago. The evidence here is not inconsistent with the animals having been overwhelmed by a flood, so the only question is dating.

While this is interesting, it does not answer my original question about when the flood of Noah is supposed to have occurred.

33 posted on 09/20/2007 1:53:07 PM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (After six years of George W. Bush I long for the honesty and sincerity of the Clinton Administration)
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To: Dysart

How long before they blame these deaths on Bush, Rove and Cheney?


34 posted on 09/20/2007 2:02:16 PM PDT by Redleg Duke ("All gave some, and some gave all!")
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To: Dysart

Wouldn’t it be cool if they could take the DNA from a mammoth and put it into a fertilized elephant’s egg in her womb?

I wonder if we would ever do that?

Ed


35 posted on 09/20/2007 4:22:25 PM PDT by Sir_Ed
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To: Dysart

They didn’t happen to find the remains of Janet Reno there did they?


36 posted on 09/20/2007 4:22:57 PM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: Sir_Ed

I think that has been done. The mammoth they found in Siberia and had a big show on Discovery was used. The DNA material was taken to Japan and implanted there, I think. No links on that though. I believe it was done in the past two to three years ago. I do not remember the results.


37 posted on 09/20/2007 4:28:31 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publici scholae)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

I wasn’t around then, so I can’t give a precise date. The geological record seems to indicate about 10,000 or so years ago.


38 posted on 09/20/2007 4:51:31 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
First century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus used manuscripts available during his time to calculate that Noah’s Flood occurred 1556 years after the creation of Adam. By adding the ages of the patriarchs listed in the Bible, other scholars have come up with roughly similar dates.

By using the dates mentioned in the bible when sons were born to the patriarchs, most scholars say that the Deluge must have taken place in the third millennium before the birth of Jesus Christ — possibly between 2500 BC and 2300 BC.

Here’s the order, based on dates mentioned in the bible.

Name - Years before son’s birth

Adam 130
Seth 105
Enos 90
Cainan 70
Maleleel 65
Jared 62
Enoch 65
Mathusela 187
Lamech 182
Noah 600

Noah was 600 years old when it happened:

In the 600th year of Noah’s life, in the 2nd month, the 17th day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. On the very same day Noah, Noah’s sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth, Noah’s wife and his sons three wives with them, entered the ark with two of every animal and bird. God shut the door of the ark, and the Flood began. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed 15 cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth and every man.... Only Noah and those with him in the ark remained alive. [Gen 7:11-23]

39 posted on 09/20/2007 4:56:49 PM PDT by sevenbak (Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven. ~Psalms 85:11)
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To: sevenbak

I’zat so.


40 posted on 09/20/2007 5:11:18 PM PDT by muleskinner
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To: muleskinner

Zats whatz zay zay.


41 posted on 09/20/2007 5:24:38 PM PDT by sevenbak (Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven. ~Psalms 85:11)
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To: TruthConquers
The two kids that found it weren’t amateur fossil hunters, that’s BULL___T. Two kids, a boy and a girl, were exploring the woods when momma wasn’t watching and stumbled across bones sticking out of the back. If I remember right they were younger than me, and I was in 6th grade. I was in a group called the ‘Junior Naturalist Club’ at Baylor when a certain unnamed archaeologist came down to the basement where we were cleaning points from the Horn Rock Shelter and asked us if we wanted to go explore the woods to look for some bones. It sounded better than pruning up my hands, so why not? There were 7 or 8 of us, I think. One thing not mentioned in the paper was the alligator teeth we found that day, too. Also found one crude, worked, flint knife of some sort. It was kinda mixed in with the bones, but a little upstream.
Another thing, there are 2 or 3 separate sites stacked on each other. One is deep down next to the lowest observation deck. Back when it was a ravine, there was a deep cut hole that dropped off there and bones were sticking out of near the bottom. Don’t know if those have ever been dug yet. They had been covered over by silt during a flood Waco had several years ago, and as of my last visit there, they were still several feet beneath the level of the current level of the creek.
Mammoth bones are found all throughout the area of that site in gravel pits, and those gravel pits get shut down if anyone finds out they found anything. It’s just a layer of gravel that runs up and down the Brazos River. Bones are all in it. Worked flint sometimes too.
42 posted on 09/20/2007 7:31:02 PM PDT by DavemeisterP
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To: DavemeisterP

Something else, I found a 68 million year old turtle in a gravel pit, not 2 miles from there.

The whole area also used to be beachfront property a long, long time ago. There are dinosaur footprints all up the Brazos and Puluxy Rivers north of Waco, too.


43 posted on 09/20/2007 7:44:47 PM PDT by DavemeisterP
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To: DavemeisterP

WOW. Thanks for the extra insight. Never can trust those journalists to get it right.


44 posted on 09/20/2007 8:45:34 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publici scholae)
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To: PAR35
I wasn’t around then, so I can’t give a precise date. The geological record seems to indicate about 10,000 or so years ago.

Thank you.

Interestingly, this roughly corresponds to the same period that Dr. Robert Schoch theorized that a great flood occurred in Egypt. (See: Sphix Studies)

45 posted on 09/21/2007 8:29:40 AM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (After six years of George W. Bush I long for the honesty and sincerity of the Clinton Administration)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

Evidence from the Black Sea does point to a slightly more recent date - say 7600 years ago.


46 posted on 09/21/2007 8:40:43 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35; sevenbak
Evidence from the Black Sea does point to a slightly more recent date - say 7600 years ago.

Geologic evidence?

If so, then there's a discrepancy of 1400 or so years.

And according to sevenbak's interpretation, which somewhat agrees with what I've heard over the years, the great flood occurred 2500-2300 B.C.

So, it's better to say that we don't really know when the flood of Noah occurred, isn't it?

47 posted on 09/21/2007 9:15:04 AM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (After six years of George W. Bush I long for the honesty and sincerity of the Clinton Administration)
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To: Dysart

bump


48 posted on 09/21/2007 9:16:27 AM PDT by VOA
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To: TruthConquers

Every time I read anything written about the mammoths, journalists get something wrong in the story. I’ve read that the two kids were adults, amatuer fossilhunters...ROFL, teenagers, two boys, two girls, Baylor University, a landowner, and a few other variances of all of those. I’m not sure if I’ve ever heard it told right once. I have even heard officials from Baylor, on the news, explaining the story and getting it wrong. I’m beginning to wonder if anyone even remembers or cares. There was one girl that was there and might be on this forum. Last I heard, I think she was a Marine Biologist in Galveston, TX. I believe her name was Selina? I know her last name, but I won’t post it. If you’re out there, speak up, I know you have quite a few interesting stories to tell as well.


49 posted on 09/21/2007 1:25:46 PM PDT by DavemeisterP
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To: colorado tanker

Thanks!


50 posted on 09/21/2007 8:22:33 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, September 12, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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