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Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
The Recorder ^ | 3/7/2007 | Chris Demorro

Posted on 09/30/2007 9:14:48 AM PDT by 1066AD

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From March this year."Search" didn't find this.

I've read similar articles but this is the most clear. Why would you buy a car with an effective life of only 100K miles ? (100K miles is expected life of the battery, replacement cost in today's dollars about $8K I'm told).

1 posted on 09/30/2007 9:14:52 AM PDT by 1066AD
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To: 1066AD
The Toyota Prius is like all other leftist ideas — it makes them feel good about themselves, but does more harm than good.
2 posted on 09/30/2007 9:16:16 AM PDT by vetsvette (Bring Him Back)
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To: 1066AD

300,000 miles from a Hummer? I don’t mind a legitimate critique of the Prius but this seems stacked in the opposite direction.

Disclaimer: I wouldn’t buy a prius on a bet, neither would I drive a Hummer.


3 posted on 09/30/2007 9:20:10 AM PDT by saganite
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To: 1066AD

Must have been posted under a different title but I’ve seen it on FR as well as other places.

This article has been widely discounted.


4 posted on 09/30/2007 9:20:45 AM PDT by keat (You know who I feel bad for? Arab-Americans who truly want to get into crop-dusting.)
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To: 1066AD

Ive said this from the beginning.

Anyone who has ever owned a cordless drill knows that the batteries are a problem.

BTW, I am told that you can overcome the problem of Battery “memory” by applying a high amount of amperage at the batteries rated voltage across its terminals of the defective battery.

This apparently will blow away the memory junction in the battery.

Caveat: “Kids... dont try this at home”


5 posted on 09/30/2007 9:22:33 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: 1066AD
I am not sure about the battery life and cost. Even if the battery life is understated and the cost is overstated, the romance with the Prius and hybrid technology is irrational.

Hybrid advocates (leftists and politicians) are ignoring price and economic analysis. The advocates have decided that hybrids are a winning technology worthy of large tax subsidies. Even with the large subsidies, the economic analysis does not make sense for most drivers. The subsidies are inhibiting other more promising ideas such as the low emissions diesel technologies from coming to market. At this time, the price and economic analysis indicate that hybrids are not the solution to energy and environment problems.

6 posted on 09/30/2007 9:25:48 AM PDT by businessprofessor
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More fun facts:

Did you know that you can make a light out of a Dill Pickle?

Take a lamp cord and strip the wires at the end. Then wrap each wire around a nail.
Insert the nails, + and - in opposing ends of the pickle.

plug the lamp cord into a wall socket and watch the pickle light up a glorious orange, like a fluorescent light!

Caveat: Kids... Don’t try this at home!


7 posted on 09/30/2007 9:29:32 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: 1066AD

> ... Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer ...

Even Rush has had to backtrack on this one.
The article is over the top. Nonetheless ...

Anyone looking for a high mileage vehicle needs to
consider the huckster hybrids with a wary eye.

What cost per mile do they get, the way you drive?

What is the cost per mile over the full useful life?

What hidden subsidies are inflating the claims?

Will you be able to ditch the used-up vehicle and
avoid hazmat fees for disposing of the batts?
(may be no problem today, but what about in 10 yrs)

We considered hybrids and bought a diesel (VW TDI).
Of course, the EPA and blue states have got things
so screwed up you can’t buy a new TDI here now.


8 posted on 09/30/2007 9:32:15 AM PDT by Boundless (Legacy Media is hazardous to your mental health)
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To: 1066AD

This article regurgitates a bunch of urban legends.

The 100k mile canard is handily refuted by many owners who have handily passed that mileage. In fact, the battery is warranted in California for 150k miles.

And $8k to replace the battery? That’s totally false.


9 posted on 09/30/2007 9:32:45 AM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast ([Thompson 2008!])
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To: 1066AD

Excellent information, thank you.


10 posted on 09/30/2007 9:34:40 AM PDT by monkeycard (There is no such thing as too much ammo.)
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To: saganite

You have a point. Compare the Prius to my Focus, which has continued to surprise me with its quality and driving fun.


11 posted on 09/30/2007 9:38:59 AM PDT by Loud Mime (Life was better when cigarette companies could advertise and lawyers could not)
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To: 1066AD

From March this year.”Search” didn’t find this.

???

Good to see this out there again, but don’t say “search” didn’t find it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1848688/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1800912/posts


12 posted on 09/30/2007 9:39:14 AM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: Loud Mime

Right. I think it’s a stretch to compare the Prius to the Hummer. The article would have been much more effective if, for instance, they compared the Prius to a Ford midsize like the Taurus.


13 posted on 09/30/2007 9:42:13 AM PDT by saganite
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Pickle Power
14 posted on 09/30/2007 9:44:16 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: 1066AD

Go Hyundai!


15 posted on 09/30/2007 9:46:41 AM PDT by zeaal (SPREAD TRUTH!)
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To: mylife
Ive said this from the beginning.

Anyone who has ever owned a cordless drill knows that the batteries are a problem.

BTW, I am told that you can overcome the problem of Battery “memory” by applying a high amount of amperage at the batteries rated voltage across its terminals of the defective battery.

This apparently will blow away the memory junction in the battery.

Caveat: “Kids... dont try this at home”

The only way you can apply more amperage is to either up the voltage or lower the resistance of the circuit. Neither one seems very feasible when charging batteries.

16 posted on 09/30/2007 9:54:00 AM PDT by calex59
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To: 1066AD

http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

Its Legit.


17 posted on 09/30/2007 9:55:10 AM PDT by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha (Smoke clears and Fred Thompson is President))
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To: 1066AD
The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.



18 posted on 09/30/2007 9:59:51 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: calex59

Not charging the battery....”clearing” the battery

Just crank up the amps on a power supply and tap the terminals for a split second.

Caveat: I dont condone this experiment


19 posted on 09/30/2007 10:02:40 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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Where's the KABOOM?

20 posted on 09/30/2007 10:06:24 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: windcliff; stylecouncilor

Pump bump.


21 posted on 09/30/2007 10:10:34 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: 1066AD

This is a bad comparison. The forces of the market have done the Hummer in. It is no more.

A better choice would be a Ford F450


22 posted on 09/30/2007 10:10:38 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Moveon is not us...... Moveon is the enemy)
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To: 1066AD; All
Now here is a cool idea...The Six stroke engine

More

23 posted on 09/30/2007 10:18:56 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mylife
Once again, the amps going through a battery, or any circuit, are dependent on A: voltage and B: resistance. In order to get higher amps out of a power supply and into a battery to "clear" it, you must use higher voltage, or somehow lower the internal resistance of the battery.

Doesn't matter what the amp rating of the supply is, it will only push so many amps into the battery at a given voltage. Perhaps you meant to crank up the voltage and touch to the terminals briefly, this would push more amps through the battery and, as you say, not to be tried by at home!

24 posted on 09/30/2007 10:28:49 AM PDT by calex59
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To: calex59

I understand. Voltage is potential.

I never tried the experiment. I only recently heard of it.

The main idea is to blow away the “memory” junction that is formed in batterys without blowing up the battery.

Upping the voltage a tad is a good idea.

The memory junction is the resistance that we need to overcome


25 posted on 09/30/2007 10:33:32 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: calex59
The poster is referring to NiCD whiskers (google it) which are internal shorts. Therefore the resistance is already very low and a high-current pulse might fix it:

NiCd cells which have developed internal short circuits can sometimes be "zapped" back to life by a high-current pulse, which burns out the metal whiskers which caused the short. This is usually done by charging a good- sized capacitor up to 5 volts or so (from a DC power supply, through a series resistor), and then "sparking" the NiCd cell from the capacitor... the sudden current surge will vaporize the whiskers. The cells should be removed from the battery [pack] before this is done... don't try to "zap" the cells while they're still connected to one another or to any other equipment.

BTW, speaking from personal experience, I would recommend against trying the pickle experiment.

26 posted on 09/30/2007 10:34:25 AM PDT by ROP_RIP
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To: 1066AD
This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

The Aveo's 2008 EPA score is 26mpg. 45 to 26 isn't spitting distance, it's very nearly double.

27 posted on 09/30/2007 10:45:17 AM PDT by CGTRWK
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To: 1066AD; Lil'freeper; big'ol_freeper

I’m gonna give this article to a lefty at work that drives one.

Hee hee.


28 posted on 09/30/2007 10:46:13 AM PDT by sauropod (You can’t spell crap without the AP in it.)
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To: sauropod

I’m glad it’s posted again. I fished it out of the archives the week before last to share with officemate M. who found it highly amusing.


29 posted on 09/30/2007 10:49:34 AM PDT by Lil'freeper (Don't taze me, bro!)
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To: 1066AD
Some things about this article do not seem right.

The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

You can check this out on Google Earth. To me it looks like the article is incorrect.

The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles.

= $325,000 -- $25,000 for the car and $300,000 for gas?

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles.

= $585,000 -- overstated perhaps?

30 posted on 09/30/2007 10:54:27 AM PDT by T Ruth (Islam shall be defeated.)
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To: JoeSixPack1

I searched on Prius .....


31 posted on 09/30/2007 10:56:34 AM PDT by 1066AD
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
"And $8k to replace the battery? That’s totally false.

The dealership replacement of a Prius battery with parts and labor was about $8k (circa last summer). I knwo several people that bought a Prius. One guy had a manufacturing defect and the battery had to be replaced. He said it was $8k but covered under warranty to get it fixed. He also said that he is not getting near the mileage he expected. That is probably due to his driving style. Lots of long highway miles with a canoe strapped to the top.

This may have now come down like the halogen headlight bulbs of the late 80's and early 90's. The dealers charged $28 for them and a year later they were $9. I haven't bought one in a long time but I imagine they are lower.

32 posted on 09/30/2007 10:58:36 AM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: sauropod

I’ll stick with my glorious F-250 SD 4WD. With BF Goodriches. Just so I can look down and see what people are doing in their Priuses. Ask big rig truckers about what they see on the road.


33 posted on 09/30/2007 11:08:23 AM PDT by BobS (I><P>)
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To: 1066AD

No problem. I’ve been referencing this article all year to my pals that own hummers and they’re ....... thrilled! :-)


34 posted on 09/30/2007 11:31:52 AM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: 1066AD

I’m a little scared to send this article to my leftist sister in North Carolina. For starters, if she decides to sell the car, she’d have to carefully take off the “Obama for President” bumper sticker. LOL

But seriously... leftists don’t like to confuse their feelings with facts.


35 posted on 09/30/2007 11:34:44 AM PDT by redpoll (redpoll)
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To: 1066AD
Well it's like anything else with technological products. Over generations, the hybrid technology will continue to improve and it will eventually make good sense to buy one. But at the beginning, the early adopters are going to get hosed. Just like the people who paid over $1000 for the first CD players and $600 for the first iPod that only held a thousand songs.

I don't particularly mind people buying hybrids but there are a sub-set of them that get self-righteous about it and we need articles like this to humble them a little.

36 posted on 09/30/2007 11:45:25 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (I am 57 days away from outliving Freddie Mercury)
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To: 1066AD
"Search" didn't find this.

You probably over-specified the search. Son't type in the whole title. Different sources have the same story under different headlines. Search only key words. Try "hummer prius" and you will find several.

37 posted on 09/30/2007 12:05:04 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: vetsvette

And lets not forget the training involved for first responders in a bad accident scene.Cutting into one without proper training can get you hurt.Jaws of life chopping in the wrong spot can light up a small town.Yes,the training on how to properly access them costs money.Lots of amps hanging out.


38 posted on 09/30/2007 12:23:09 PM PDT by xarmydog
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To: 1066AD
“From March this year.”Search” didn’t find this.”

Yeah, FR’s search leaves a lot to be desired.

Same article, same author, dated 3/7/2007:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1800912/posts

Other articles, same topic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1803723/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1828450/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1848688/posts

39 posted on 09/30/2007 1:48:46 PM PDT by upchuck (Hildabeaste as Prez... unimaginable, devastating misery!)
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To: Dutch Boy

I have a Prius and lurk on several online Prius forums. Folks with accident damage seem to be quoted $1-2k to replace the battery pack nowadays. The prices are definitely coming down, both as a result of volume increase and because battery packs from old or junked Priii are starting to fill the pipeline for recycling.

What galls me about threads like this is the eagerness of folks to believe things they earnestly want to believe. It’s the exact point-and-laugh mentality seen in Bush Derangement Syndrome, just directed in a different vector. Folks, don’t believe everything you read. Investigate a little. Better yet, in this case maybe talk to an owner, and you’ll find that this is a fantastic, capacious, safe, fast, reliable and durable car that just happens to put fewer dollars into the pockets of sheikhs and jihadis.


40 posted on 09/30/2007 2:09:47 PM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast ([Thompson 2008!])
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To: 1066AD

bttt greeny weany


41 posted on 09/30/2007 5:02:41 PM PDT by Luigi Vasellini (What do you call 2 toddlers and some duct tape??........muslim body armor!!!!!!!)
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To: 1066AD

I didn’t know nickle was such a dangerous material.


42 posted on 09/30/2007 5:21:39 PM PDT by X-FID
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To: mylife

Not to nitpick so much, but how to apply large amounts of amperage without lots of voltage to push those amps through? Better that those drill manufacturers switch to LiIon instead of the 60$ NiMH that I am buying now. As far as the pickle thing, I’m going to try that, but since the a.c. line switches polarity 60 times per second, there really is no + or - . Freegards.


43 posted on 09/30/2007 8:40:24 PM PDT by printhead
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To: printhead

On the pickle...use a galvanized nail(zinc) and a copper electrode for best results.

Caveat: I dont condone this ;0)


44 posted on 09/30/2007 8:44:01 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: potlatch; PhilDragoo; MeekOneGOP; ntnychik; dixiechick2000




45 posted on 09/30/2007 9:53:32 PM PDT by devolve (---- -The_Fool_On_The_Hill_Is_No_Mountain_Climber-)
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To: devolve

That is a really nice car, would like to see it without all the numbers, etc, on it.


46 posted on 09/30/2007 9:55:53 PM PDT by potlatch (MIZARU_ooo_‹(•Ώ•)›_ooo_MIKAZARU_ooo_‹(•Ώ•)›_ooo_MAZARU_ooo_‹(•Ώ•)›_ooo_))
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To: potlatch

.

It’s not powerful enough for you!


47 posted on 09/30/2007 10:00:30 PM PDT by devolve (---- -The_Fool_On_The_Hill_Is_No_Mountain_Climber-)
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To: devolve

Snicker, it may not have the ‘pickup’ my Lincoln does!!


48 posted on 09/30/2007 10:02:46 PM PDT by potlatch (MIZARU_ooo_‹(•Ώ•)›_ooo_MIKAZARU_ooo_‹(•Ώ•)›_ooo_MAZARU_ooo_‹(•Ώ•)›_ooo_))
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To: 1066AD

This article was debunked....

but there are studies which show the Prius costing a lot more than most cars in terms of money, production, etc.


49 posted on 09/30/2007 10:04:10 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: potlatch

.

About 90 cubic inches plus an auxiliary electric motor from a Hoover vacuum cleaner

It outruns grocery carts


50 posted on 09/30/2007 10:12:36 PM PDT by devolve (---- -The_Fool_On_The_Hill_Is_No_Mountain_Climber-)
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