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The Swift Boating of Graham Frost (FR Mentioned; TV Networks Stalking Frosts)
Time Magazine ^ | Thursday, October 11, 2007 | Karen Tumulty

Posted on 10/11/2007 6:04:41 AM PDT by kristinn

Since then, Frost and his family have been introduced first-hand to something else that most kids his age haven't: the reality of how brutal partisan politics can be in the Internet age. It started over the weekend, when a blogger calling himself Icwhatudo put up a post on the conservative website Freerepublic.com noting what he had found by scavenging around the internet: that Graeme attends a private school, lives in a remodeled house near one that had sold for $485,000 in March and is the child of parents whose wedding was announced in the New York Times. The post also noted that his father purchased a $160,000 commercial space in 1999.

SNIP

And while they are still uninsured, they claim it is most certainly not by choice. Bonnie Frost says the last time she priced health coverage, she learned it would cost them $1,200 a month.

In short, just as the radio spot claimed, the Frosts are precisely the kind of people that the SCHIP program was intended to help.

SNIP

While the family continues to support the vetoed bill that would expand the program to 4 million more children, they are hoping to remove themselves from the middle of the storm. After giving a few interviews, Halsey and Bonnie Frost now say they don't want to say anything more, though network camera crews have planted themselves in front of their house.

SNIP

Politics has never been a gentle game. As far back as 1895, satirist Finley Peter Dunne's fictional saloonkeeper Martin Dooley observed that women, children and prohibitionists would do well to stay out of it, because "politics ain't beanbag." But surely, even Mr. Dooley could never have imagined a day would come when a mere seventh grader could be swift-boated.

(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: graemefrost; hidingbehindkids; icwhatudo; schip; stalinisttactic; timelies; zogbyism
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To: kristinn
"a post on the conservative website Freerepublic.com noting what he had found by scavenging around the internet: that Graeme attends a private school, lives in a remodeled house near one that had sold for $485,000 in March and is the child of parents whose wedding was announced in the New York Times. The post also noted that his father purchased a $160,000 commercial space in 1999."

And what, pray tell, Mz. Tumulty, is untrue about this statement? I would dare bet that is more truth, and less plagiarism, on this web site than there is in Time Magazine.

51 posted on 10/11/2007 6:45:27 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Planting trees to offset carbon emissions is like drinking water to offset rising ocean levels)
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To: Suzy Quzy

Do you know this to be true or are you speculating?


52 posted on 10/11/2007 6:46:11 AM PDT by jennyjenny
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To: Red Badger

That’s called deflection. “How can you bash a poor injured little child? How heartless. Look how they persecute an innocent little child”

Takes attention away from the fact that the parents are both able bodied & fully capable of providing the needs for the child. They just chose to not do that but place their burden upon the backs of taxpayers, some of whom who make less than they do.


53 posted on 10/11/2007 6:47:16 AM PDT by Sue Perkick (And I hope that what Iíve done here today doesnít force you to have a negative opinion of meÖ.)
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To: muawiyah
Some smart guy out there might even know how to figure out daddy's blood pressure with the information we have and the probability of his having rectal hemorrhoids.

Don't know about that, but bet right about now it would take an electron microscope to be able to see up his rectum to check for said hemorrhoids.

54 posted on 10/11/2007 6:47:54 AM PDT by AxelPaulsenJr (Fred Thompson for President)
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To: kristinn

Politics, being a rough and tumble business, should be left to professionals.


55 posted on 10/11/2007 6:47:57 AM PDT by Phlap (REDNECK@LIBARTS.EDU)
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To: ProfoundMan
Thanks for the ping.

Anyone see a pattern? Clinton, Gore and Kerry all used phony human props to cite their position on health care insurance.


During John Kerry's nomination acceptance speech during the 2004 DNC, he trotted out his health insurance "poster child", Mary Ann Knowles. Kerry stated that she had to "keep working day after day right through her chemotherapy, no matter how sick she felt, because she was terrified of losing her family's health insurance". In reality, she had excellent coverage with 26 weeks of paid disability leave, but she chose to work through most of her treatment because her husband was unemployed.

Video of Kerry's Speech

Links to story on FR


Al Gore tried this same tactic in 2000 with Winifred Skinner.

Al Gore said, "It brings tears to your eyes. Here's this adorable, elderly woman out in Iowa who's so sick and so poor, that in order to pay for medicines she needs to stay alive, she has to scavenge in a local dump yard for cast-off tin cans."

"She gets a small pension," he said. "But in order to pay for her prescription drug benefits she has to go out seven days a week, several hours a day, picking up cans."

It turns out, as the statement was rectified, Mrs. Skinner goes out zero days a week, for zero hours a day, and that she was only speaking "in the name of" people she assumes must do this.


In 1994, Hillary Clinton used Kathy Bush when citing her case as an example of the high cost of medical care.



Later, investigators found the mother guilty of intentionally making her daughter sick and forcing her to undergo more than 40 needless surgeries, in what prosecutors called a case of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.

“Forty-two-year old Kathy Bush had been charged with aggravated child abuse and fraud for bilking thousands of dollars from the State of Florida for medical expenses incurred by her daughter, Jennifer. The mother faces up to 45 years in prison.”

Link

56 posted on 10/11/2007 6:48:13 AM PDT by DocRock (All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52 ... Go ahead, look it up!)
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To: Suzy Quzy

Mr, Frost’s parents give $40,000.00 a year to that private school...TAX DEDUCTIBLE....and then the School gives the kids almost “free” tuition!!! SWEET DEAL! The Frost’s are doing some TAX dodging manuevers.””

Seems like the IRS needs to look at both Mr Frost’s woodworking business tax returns and HIS FATHER’S tax returns.

How big a loophole is it in the charity laws that you can write off a “deduction” for a “donation” to a private school and then your grandkids get to go to the school for a rate that is almost tuition free???????

Calling the IRS!!! Calling the IRS!!!

Please- isn’t there a Freeper who works for the IRS?????


57 posted on 10/11/2007 6:49:03 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: kristinn
Now folks just remember...The left like to deal only in the emotions to make their point so the FACTS have nothing to do with it..We are just mean nasty Swift Boaters....
58 posted on 10/11/2007 6:49:09 AM PDT by blueyon (Loose lips sink ships.)
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To: Suzy Quzy
Mr, Frost’s parents give $40,000.00 a year to that private school...TAX DEDUCTIBLE....and then the School gives the kids almost “free” tuition!!! SWEET DEAL! The Frost’s are doing some TAX dodging manuevers.

If what they are doing is not illegal, then I have no problem. But pimping for taxpayer funded medical care on top of it is unconscionable.

59 posted on 10/11/2007 6:50:53 AM PDT by Mygirlsmom (Anyone under the age of 35 can be considered a legal abortion survivor)
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To: ClearCase_guy
"I see that “swift-boating” is now an officially accepted word meaning “Stating the truth about things the media is trying to hide from the public”."

Wikipedia ALERT!

;-)

60 posted on 10/11/2007 6:51:11 AM PDT by NordP (If illegal alien = "undocumented immigrant" then drug dealer = "unlicensed pharmacist")
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To: norwaypinesavage

If you can imagine a woman who has suffered from severe constipation for thirty years you have a picture of Karen Tumulty.


61 posted on 10/11/2007 6:52:29 AM PDT by Melchior
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To: blueyon

Now folks just remember...The left like to deal only in the emotions to make their point so the FACTS have nothing to do with it..We are just mean nasty Swift Boaters....”

WE need T-Shirts!!!!!!

Let me know if anyone out there is making some up!!!


62 posted on 10/11/2007 6:52:45 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: kristinn
“Bonnie Frost says the last time she priced health coverage, she learned it would cost them $1,200 a month”

Obviously Bonnie doesn’t do her homework because “bloggers” found family plans as low as $300 a month. This family put their son in the spotlight for a cause they already had the benefits of so they are now fair game.

63 posted on 10/11/2007 6:54:28 AM PDT by tobyhill (The media lies so much the truth is the exception)
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To: Sue Perkick
That’s called deflection. “How can you bash a poor injured little child? How heartless. Look how they persecute an innocent little child”

Exactly. It's such a liberal chickenshit manuever.


64 posted on 10/11/2007 6:54:49 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: kristinn
But surely, even Mr. Dooley could never have imagined a day would come when a mere seventh grader could be swift-boated.

If, by "swiftboating", she means exposing the truth behind a publicly-posturing Democrat, I guess that just goes to show you - A person who goes public becomes a "public person", and subject to public scrutiny.

Besides, nobody went after the kid, they just pointed out that his parents are far from "needy", and probably shouldn't be on the dole.

65 posted on 10/11/2007 6:56:31 AM PDT by Kenton (All vices in moderation. I don't want to overdo any but I don't want to skip any either.)
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To: kristinn

Here’s a funny thing. Before the accident, they could have afforded health insurance. But they decided not to spend the money.

When they needed health coverage, the existing SCHIP program covered them. This is a Republican program that gave them what they needed, after they failed to protect their own family.

They don’t need the expansion of the program, so they are a meaningless distraction to the fight, but one the Democrats chose for just this purpose.

But here’s the funny thing. Under any democratic proposal for universal health care, this family would have been forced to buy health insurance. Because universal health care can’t work if you don’t force healthy people to pay for it.

This family had a CHOICE of whether to buy insurance. If they had made the right choice, they’d still have insurance today. But in fact, it may have well been the “wrong” choice since I paid for their health insurance after they failed to do so.

Why would anybody buy health insurance if someone else is willing to pay for their treatment?

I would say that some of the pundits have gone way overboard. The issue was NEVER whether this family was cheating the system — it was only whether this family was really an example of why the program needed to be expanded.

In fact, this family was covered under the program before, and would be covered under Bush’s proposal to increase funding for the program. We don’t need to fight over whether they should have been refused, or whether they have too much money, because that’s not the point.

The point is that the Democrats have cut off this family from the program. They are holding millions of families like this HOSTAGE, to blackmail the president into approving an expansion which is NOT to help these needy families but instead to pay off another few million voters to re-elect democrats.

And the Democrats want to do this by taxing poor cigarette smokers, some for more than $400 extra a year.

We shouldn’t have gone from exposing the truth to attacking the messenger (not us here on FR, but some have done so). Although I don’t think ANYBODY has attacked the kid, some have attacked the family, not on facts but just attacked them.

There’s nothing wrong with pointing out that the family is a solid middle-class family who made choices but still got SCHIP coverage under the old program. There’s no problem in highlighting that this family HAD the choice to buy medical insurance, and chose not to. But while other attacks may be “fun”, they detract from the message.

We need to get back to winning arguments by our ideas, not our ability to call people names.


66 posted on 10/11/2007 6:57:29 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: kristinn

This whole firestorm could have been prevented had the Democrats done their research. Now the media is camped out on their front yard and their finances are under scrutiny by the blogosphere. While the parents share blame by pimping their kids, the Democrats who selected them are the political “professionals”. More than likely, dad got stars in his eyes at the idea of his kid being a national spokesperson for this, never thinking of the consequences. The Democrats should have known better.


67 posted on 10/11/2007 6:59:17 AM PDT by Hoodlum91 (I support global warming.)
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To: benjamin032
“.....seat-belts, smoking, helmets, and airbags all come to mind...”
All of those restrictions or requirements are mandated by the government, except for smoking.

Insurance companies shouldn’t HAVE to cover anyone (nor should any private enterprise be restricted on who it will or will not serve) , let the market decide.

68 posted on 10/11/2007 7:00:07 AM PDT by RedStateRocker (When the government fears the People= Liberty. When the People fear the Government =Tyranny)
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To: GovernmentShrinker; icwhatudo

Actually, his early posts were devoid of speculation, and he labelled his assumptions clearly. He did a great job of simply stating facts, and nobody has had to correct a single fact he posted.

There WERE people who then made assumptions based on those facts, but it wasn’t his fault they did so.


69 posted on 10/11/2007 7:00:31 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Hoodlum91

Must hurt the MSM when do-it-yourselfers do a better job than the overpaid professionals.

(Mr. Oreily are you taking notes or are have you assigned that to your staffers too?)


70 posted on 10/11/2007 7:01:19 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: icwhatudo
Bump for your scrap book.

[Editor's note to Frosts: I use my real name on this forum, and stand by everything I type]

You'all are a bunch of liberal/socialist/democRAT hacks.

Oh, btw, a "child" is definitely under the age of 25 you morons.

5.56mm

71 posted on 10/11/2007 7:02:41 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: benjamin032

That’s the price for a quote they got RECENTLY, with the kids pre-existing conditions. Frankly, my GUESS is that they just priced some insurance so they could be more sympathetic when they came out — I don’t see why they would be looking to buy insurance AFTER the accident, when they didn’t before the accident.

After all, now they know they have coverage under SCHIP, so why price insurance for the kids that are already covered, if not just to get an inflated number to use in your argument?

The point is the $1200 number is NOT what it would have costed for insurance before the accident.

On the other hand, the accident was horrendous. The result was devestating. And even with medical insurance through SCHIP, the family DOES have other expenses. They had to replace the car. They had to remodel the house to make it livable for the disabled child, they took out a 2nd mortgage (equity line of credit?) for that.

Taking care of the child takes time and would make it a little harder to get a new job, or to work longer hours.

Yes, the family CHOSE not to buy insurance, but we do encourage that choice — it’s the Democrats who want to take away your choice to not buy insurance. Yes, they did take our tax dollars when their choice turned out to be a bad one, but they DO SEEM to be a family that fits under the parameters of the program.

They were a lousy choice by the Democrats, if we emphasise that they are pretty well off, that the existing SCHIP program worked for them, that no expansion is needed to continue to cover them, and that it’s the DEMOCRATS that have caused them to lose their coverage, in order to hold them HOSTAGE.


72 posted on 10/11/2007 7:06:17 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Hoodlum91

Yep, I bet this is the last time the Frosts do a favor for Harry and Nancy! This is a classic case of liberals getting mugged by reality. It appears this couple has avoided dealing with the consequences of their choices their entire lives. They thought this little media event would be no different—they could put their son out there, make their point, and walk away unscathed. Guess again. Welcome to the real world where behavior has consequences, Mr. and Mrs. Frost.


73 posted on 10/11/2007 7:08:51 AM PDT by LadyNavyVet
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To: Red Badger

The Frosts needed to be squeaky clean to get through their little shot at 15 minutes of fame. They should have known that. Or the democrat operatives who used them should have told them that. Nobody could have been unaware that as soon as they made their claim, somebody was going to check up on them.


74 posted on 10/11/2007 7:10:52 AM PDT by Emrys (Fashion says "Me, too." Style says, "Only me.")
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Should be echoed and posted on FR’s main page.
Also, there are trolls who trouble us!


75 posted on 10/11/2007 7:12:50 AM PDT by Right_Rev (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke)
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To: Apple Blossom

ping


76 posted on 10/11/2007 7:13:45 AM PDT by bmwcyle (BOMB, BOMB, BOMB,.......BOMB, BOMB IRAN)
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To: kristinn

That guy should be very ashamed of himself for this whole episode.
He and his wife are obviously doing fine, and by being smart with their money they could at the very least afford major medical insurance for the whole family.
I never dreamed the State would pay for my children’s insurance, and as a result they didn’t have any for most of their childhood. I told my husband yesterday that I guess it takes a certain kind of person to assume and seek out the State to pay your way- especially people as successful as the Frosts. They may not be “rich”, but they certainly aren’t in need of the rest of us paying for their children’s insurance.
That is the same mentality that allowed a friend I had some years ago to buy her child $100 Nike’s and get her hair and nails done every month while collecting welfare and living in subsidized housing.
Reminds me of the lame commercials for the local check-cashing loan sharks which goes “...get your money, your free money...” lol
Not only is it not free, it’s gonna cost you big time down the road.


77 posted on 10/11/2007 7:13:56 AM PDT by visualops (artlife.us)
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To: moose2004

You can’t use equity to pay monthly bills, it won’t last long enough. So having equity isn’t going to help them buy health insurance.

And the accident was terrible, the bills were in the hundreds of thousands if not millions. Most of us would have trouble covering that on our own after-the-fact.

This is the danger in attacking the family situation instead of attacking the democrats. If the family had a routine tonsilectemy, or better some elective surgery paid for under SCHIPs, you might get to argue that they should have just cut other spending to pay for it.

And it’s perfectly good to note that, before the accident, there were many sources of health coverage that they could afford.

Nobody talks about it, but most states have a really inexpensive child insurance coverage program. Virginia has one, so even if the parents can’t or won’t get coverage, they can insure their kids for less than $100 a month. Kid’s don’t cost much to insure. I bet New York had such a plan.

Or, as others have pointed out, you can get a catastrophic care plan for much less than full coverage. So maybe you have to take out a 2nd mortgage if you have an illness, but after the first thousands you are covered for the big things like this accident.

So I want to argue with the family about their CHOICE, and argue with the family about their insistance that there was NO WAY they could get medical insurance for their children.

But since both the republicans and the white house SUPPORT the SCHIP program, since it was a REPUBLICAN program, since Bush wanted to fund it another $5 billion, I see little point in making a major PUBLIC argument against the program itself at this point.

We would do better to stick to the argument over the EXPANSION, and note that the Frost family was covered just fine under the existing program.


78 posted on 10/11/2007 7:15:18 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Suzy Quzy

I missed that. Where was that written?


79 posted on 10/11/2007 7:16:49 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ClearCase_guy

Truth = swift boating. Damn the torpedoes; full speed ahead!


80 posted on 10/11/2007 7:17:47 AM PDT by Ab Alius Domitor ("In the end;the winner")
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To: GovernmentShrinker

It seems you haven’t read his rebuttal to those charges. There’s a thread he started you can search for.


81 posted on 10/11/2007 7:17:52 AM PDT by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: kristinn

So telling the truth about liberals is now “swift-boating”?

Next up....laws the ban telling the truth about liberals....to “protect the children”.


82 posted on 10/11/2007 7:18:16 AM PDT by DesScorp
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To: Right_Rev
"We need to get back to winning arguments by our ideas, not our ability to call people names." CharlesWayneCT

Great Tagline

83 posted on 10/11/2007 7:18:31 AM PDT by Right_Rev ("We need to get back to winning arguments by our ideas, not our ability to call people names.")
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To: Kenton
Here is the best definition of swift-boating:

Swift-boating = Telling the truth about DemocRATS

84 posted on 10/11/2007 7:19:30 AM PDT by Agent Smith (Fallujah delenda est. (I wish))
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To: willk

It’s an opinion piece.


85 posted on 10/11/2007 7:20:23 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ridesthemiles

Why would you call for the IRS to audit someone and their parents?
That is ridiculous. Are you a Clinton?


86 posted on 10/11/2007 7:20:32 AM PDT by visualops (artlife.us)
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To: Suzy Quzy
Mr, Frost’s parents give $40,000.00 a year to that private school...TAX DEDUCTIBLE....and then the School gives the kids almost “free” tuition!!! SWEET DEAL! The Frost’s are doing some TAX dodging manuevers.

Ruh roh. If true, no wonder the Frosts refuse to release their 2006 tax return.

87 posted on 10/11/2007 7:21:14 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: kristinn
"But surely, even Mr. Dooley could never have imagined a day would come when a mere seventh grader could be swift-boated.

To me one of the vilest things about the left and it's Party is the way they use children as mere props to push their agendas.

This tactic goes back (in my memory) to LBJ's little girl with the ice cream cone, but it was perfected by the two Arkansas grifters and their ilk.

They would throw those same children into bonfires if they believed that approach would get them into power.

88 posted on 10/11/2007 7:21:32 AM PDT by VR-21
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To: kristinn

“I find it morally reprehensible, and the act of a true coward, to publicly (world wide) smear a man and his family and not sign one’s own real name to what they have written. I sign my name to what I write. -Halsey Frost”

I find it morally reprehensible, and the act of a true coward, to publicly (world wide) smear a man and his family. I sign my alias to what I write. -Son House

.
Now, share the accident report, because I’m doubting the ‘black ice’ if the driver wasn’t ticketed for driving too fast for road conditions, and it would also make Democrats look like bigger fools for not getting the facts right too.


89 posted on 10/11/2007 7:23:47 AM PDT by Son House ($$Proud Member of Vast Right Wing, Out To Lower Your Tax Rates For More Opportunities.$$)
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To: kristinn
"I find it morally reprehensible, and the act of a true coward, to publicly (world wide) smear a man and his family and not sign one's own real name to what they have written. I sign my name to what I write. -Halsey Frost"

I feel the same way about the dems writing a radio address attacking the president and asking your 12 your old son to deliver as his own.

90 posted on 10/11/2007 7:24:10 AM PDT by jennyjenny
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To: kristinn
I guess these guys never heard of HSA's.... They just would rather leech off the taxpayer....

It's clear to me that the Democrats are using SCHIP as an entry into a fully socialized single payer system...they fund with an unsustainable source so they can enlarge the program again in a year or two when they will claim there is not sufficient funding, but they will want to enlarge the program and taxpayers will have to pay through the nose yet more. We've all seen this type of strategy before. Indeed, SCHIP was the foot in the door a few years ago...and here it is - a monster growing larger each time it comes up.

91 posted on 10/11/2007 7:24:37 AM PDT by vharlow (http://www.vventures.net)
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To: visualops
Why would you call for the IRS to audit someone and their parents?

Because a tax dodge is a tax dodge? If these folks are acting in a way that would draw an audit, then they should be audited. And if they were dumb enough to draw the Feds' attention to themselves in the first place, so what? Idiots aren't entitled to a free pass.

92 posted on 10/11/2007 7:26:20 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Bishop_Malachi
Perhaps the greatest illustration of their limited IQ is that telling the truth about someone is synonymous with “Swift-boating”.

The mission of the swift boaters is to attack the liars and their lies SWIFTLY before they know what hit them.

i.e. SWIFTBOATING


93 posted on 10/11/2007 7:41:02 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (NY Times: "fake but accurate")
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To: kristinn
Mr Frost says: This is an aberrant attempt to distract the American people from what the real issues are. Hard working American families need affordable health insurance.

Why, Mr Frost? You didn't need it!

Love the Democrat talking point of "...Hard working American families..."

94 posted on 10/11/2007 7:41:58 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (No buy China!!)
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To: Melchior
If you can imagine a woman who has suffered from severe constipation for thirty years you have a picture of Karen Tumulty.


95 posted on 10/11/2007 7:56:24 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (NY Times: "fake but accurate")
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To: CharlesWayneCT

What attacks, Charles?


96 posted on 10/11/2007 7:56:41 AM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her PHONINESS is REAL!!!)
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To: kristinn

Tv Networks STALKING??? Has ANYONE seen a story on the Frost fiasco EXCEPT when talking about the Republicans ATTACK??? NOOOOOOOOO...not one word about the FACTS.


97 posted on 10/11/2007 7:58:41 AM PDT by Suzy Quzy (Hillary '08...Her PHONINESS is REAL!!!)
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To: tobyhill
Obviously Bonnie doesn’t do her homework because “bloggers” found family plans as low as $300 a month.

It's obvious the Frosts are shills for the democrats.

98 posted on 10/11/2007 8:00:07 AM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (NY Times: "fake but accurate")
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To: ClearCase_guy

You are correct, but the libs, and especially leftist publications like Time, have made “Swift-boating” into a negative, implying that the Swift Boat heros were somehow wrong about Kerry’s Viet Nam experiences and that their work was reprehensible, when in fact they had the facts and spoke the truth about Kerry, the lying VN vet.


99 posted on 10/11/2007 8:02:50 AM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: kristinn
Like most liberals, they want something for nothing. Why should they work harder and sacrifice to provide the basic needs of life for their family when they can get other people who have worked hard and sacrificed to pay for it for them.
100 posted on 10/11/2007 8:03:50 AM PDT by Proud2BeRight
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