Skip to comments.Toyota skids in reliability rankings
Posted on 10/16/2007 10:27:25 AM PDT by eraser2005
NEW YORK, CNNMoney.com -- The Toyota brand has lost its top position for iron-clad reliability, according to an influential Consumer Reports survey released Tuesday.
The survey dropped Toyota from first to fifth place - behind Honda, Acura, Scion and Subaru - in average vehicle reliability. The rankings are based on average predicted reliability for all models sold under a given brand.
Brands made by Toyota Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. still dominate the rankings: Scion is Toyota's low-priced car brand and Acura is Honda's luxury car brand.
Consumer Reports said it no longer recommends V6 versions of Toyota's Camry or V8 versions of its Tundra pick-up because of poor reliability.
In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.
But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers.
(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...
Also some good news for domestics... They now rate 93% of all Ford/Lincoln/Mercury models as average or better (and that is WITH statistical data to back them up)
FWIW, average is a 3% or lower failure rate
Wow, even behind their budget Scion brand huh? I know three people with Scions and each of them has had a lot of problems with them.
How can this be? Toyota having “Q” issues?
Yep, going against the religion again!
CR must have discovered that Toyota doesn’t support the Kyoto agreement.
CR hated the 4Runner...one of the best cars I ever owned.
¿hecho en mexico?
Some of their domestic Japanese production must be finding its way into the world market.
‘Consumer Reports said it no longer recommends V6 versions of Toyota’s Camry or V8 versions of its Tundra pick-up because of poor reliability. ‘
We get Consumer Reports magazine, and use it when making purchases.
That said, they said the same thing about the Hummer H2 (poor reliability). I own a H2, and thats simply not the case at all. Its the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned.
I suspect junk science about global warming is creeping into these evaluations. H2 has a big V8, just like the Tundra.
‘CR hated the 4Runner...one of the best cars I ever owned.’
Same here with my Hummer 2.
I have a couple of Scions, and have been very pleased with them. They have been bulletproof, thus far.
Interesting. This sort of turns my views upside down on vehicle reliability. Especially the JD Powers survey which shows Buick as more reliable in categories than Toyota or Honda. I’m still very satisfied with my 4 cylinder Camry — and glad I got the 4 cylinder. I tested it a few times and just didn’t think it needed more power so I skipped the 6 cylinder — which is apparently less reliable.
Toyotas were never “rock solid” reliable.. most of that was crap and manipulation. Like Toyota would not issue a formal recall, but do them under different names so it wouldn’t show up in their statitistics when evaluated etc..
Consumer Reports ratings should be taken with a grain of salt, however. Its sort of a car rating system for people who dont like/love cars, but they are usually pretty close.
So has my 2006 GMC Sierra Denali pickup.
Ditto on the 4Runner. But it is amazing that CR gave Toyota a gimme on it cars with NO data. Yeah, that's a dispassionate assesment. /s
There's one (van thingy) around here that has a bumper sticker in the window "Got Toast?" . Maybe it should say, "It's Toast!"..............
That’s the whole point - they can give a vehicle “below average” reliability marks, but because “average” is such a low failure rate, it is debatable whether they have sample sizes anywhere near large enough to determine with any accuracy where a vehicle lies....
And even if it is a solid black rating, horror of all horrors, it couls still be a VERY low problem rate....
Yeah, and they also loved the VW Passat back in 2000 when I purchased one (based largely on CR’s recommendation). I haven’t bothered with CR since.
Tough neighborhood, eh?................
My 1990 Ford Ranger is the same way. It just keeps on getting me where I need to go with complete reliability.
Not only is Ford/Lincoln/Mercury in a dead heat in terms of reliability, darn near every they are building is 5 Star in crash testing, including the Mustang Convertible in roll-overs. Their weak link is fuel economy and they are addressing that.
The Ford and GM basing on the freep is getting so old....
Remember the Movie Apollo 13, and the line "Failure is not an Option"? Failure is not an option for Allan Mulally and by extension Ford. Anyone who bets against him, would still place a bet on Sonny Liston vs. some newcomer, this guy, what's his name, Muhammad Ali....
This was based on one single indicator that I've been using to assess the future performance of an auto company's stock, and it hasn't failed me yet. Anyone who wants my "secret" (admittedly it will seem half-cocked at first) can Freep-mail me.
Still, the worst Toyota is better than the best Chrysler...
Still, the worst Toyota is better than the best Chrysler...
1. It seemed too heavy for the powertrain (at the time, I believe the largest engine offered on it was a small V-6).
2. I never liked the idea of building an SUV on a pickup truck chassis. Not enough leg room inside (especially in the back seat).
“he says that the Camry’s V-6 is the worst engine in Toyota’s line up”
Problems arose only when they weren’t serviced on schedule. If the oil and filter was changed on schedule, there was no problem. Toyota extended the warranty on these engines anyway.
Yep, I had a 1982 SR-5 and it ran and ran, I finally gave it away to my step son. I now have a 1994 Ford Ranger 4 wheel drive that has 166,000 miles on it and all I ever replaced were the spark plugs and a clutch at 125,000 miles. I think my daughter was the reason the clutch failed! It just keeps on running.
The worst cars I ever owned were early 90’s Fords. I bought a Toyota Corolla and the only thing that ever went wrong with that was a pulley. Now I drive a Honda and have no problems at about 200k.
I have a 96 Honda Civic w/ 64K mi. The only problems I ever have
are those they find when I take it to Midas for oil changes.
Those problems magically disappear when I take it elsewhere.
Funny... Scion is Toyota, Acura is Honday... thus leaving Subaru the only "other" in the list.
Eh... CR does have some points - but using them to advise you on a capital purchase like a car, boat, or similar item is a mistake.
Remember, this is the same publication that actually *liked* and *recommended* the first generation Hyundai Excel, one of the worst cars ever sold in the US.
That said, I’m not really surprised on the two Toyota models they panned. The Toyota car V6 has been having oil gelling problems of late - but the same problem has been sporadically affecting all makers of late, including Mercedes, Ford, Chrysler and GM. It isn’t a very well understood phenomenon, and it’s been surprising some of the world’s best powertrain engineers.
The Toyota truck V8 problem was not as widespread as eraser would have us believe, but it certainly is a worthwhile thing to note on a survey; Toyota’s American supplier wasn’t paying attention and shipped a lot of defective cams to Toyota. The problem is a flaw in the casting for the camshaft. At this point, only about 20 trucks have had an actual failure related to this, but to their credit Toyota will be replacing the engine for free in case of camshaft failure.
Hey, Eraser, when’s Ford going to be replacing those defective 4.6s?
Subarus, amusingly enough, is building Toyota Camries under contract from Toyota in their IN plant.
And even Toyota’s “worst” engine is better than some other makes’ “best” engines in terms of reliability. Ford, I’m looking at you....
I’ve got the best of two worlds: a reliable Honda Accord, built in Ohio!
Until recently, most SUVs were built on pickup frames. It adds great strength and allows them to go offroad and not break. (Note that the FJ Cruiser, a Toyota unibody, is having body cracking problems when used offroad.)
That said, lack of legroom is not a function of whether it’s unibody or body-on-frame but of interior design. Case in point is my 90 Nissan Pathfinder - tons of room in the front; my 7’ tall basketball player friend fit inside just fine. Rear legroom is OK - if the front seaters aren’t basketball players and don’t have the seat back all the way. They did fix that later with the next generation of Pathfinder and XTerra.
“Some rather damning admissions in here... that CR admits they gave Toyotas average or better ratings without any statistical data to back up their predictions....”
This was always epxlained to readers. Not a secret.
My husband recently bought a 2007 Ford 500. He loves it. He says it is his favorite car of all the ones he has owned.
All of the V-6 engines currently used by Ford in their passenger cars (3.0/3.5/4.0) are 60 degree designs. The Audi V-6, which draws rave reviews, happens to have a 90 degree layout.
But you understand that just because you didn't have any problems with your car doesn't mean that the line as a whole isn't reliable, right?
Buying ANY vehicle is a crapshoot, but with some companies it’s less of one. Sure, there are good Hummers out there but there are a bunch of lemons. The only person I know who owned a Hummer 2 ended up hating it because it was in the garage so often. There are a large number of good Camrys, but there are lemons as well.
So far, our two most reliable vehicles have been Camrys, with a Honda CRV coming in close behind. Our worst was by far was a Dodge Caravan (with a Renault and a Rabbit close behind). Nonetheless, I’m sure there are people who consider their Caravan one of their best vehicles and I know people who love their VWs.
Wait until your transaxle ejects on that 500....
Could you give me a little more info on that one?
Part of the problem is that they really were V8’s with two cylinders lopped off. Without the additional engineering needed to make a 90 degree V6 work properly, they didn’t do well.
Sure: The first 500 I test drove when they first came out literally scattered its transaxle all over the pavement with less than 50 miles on the car. The second one also was pretty pathetic.
I’ve been forced to rent 500s off and on since then, and they have about a 30% chance of having something wrong with the transaxle.
Great gas millage bad looking coffin.
I just turned 30,000 miles since my previous post. Not one problem with my H2.
And thats the bottom line. I think you are correct in your assessment.
Yep, going against the religion again!”
Blaspheme! The toileta worshipers will not be pleased with your sacrilegious comment.
OK, then how about the rollerskate known as the Chevy Aveo? Or the Ford Aspire? Or, for that matter, a Ford Focus?