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(Adulterer, flip-flopper) Giuliani asks Values Voters to trust him
The Politico ^ | 10/20/-2007 | Mike Allen

Posted on 10/20/2007 10:21:39 AM PDT by Ol' Sparky

Former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, walking into a political lion’s den, told the year’s largest gathering of social conservatives that he is “not always the best example of faith” but that their similarities are much greater than their differences.

“Isn’t it better that I tell you what I really believe instead of changing all my positions?” Giuliani told an audience of 2,000 at the Family Research Council's Values Voters Summit at a Washington hotel. “I believe trust is more important than 100 percent agreement.”

The audience, generally hostile to Giuliani, recognized the shot at former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, and laughter and a few cheers spread across the room.

The former mayor, who left the stage grinning amid applause after his 40-minute speech, went for an authenticity contrast with Romney, substituting his law and order credentials for the family values emphasis of Romney, a long-married father of five.

Giuliani paid obeisance to the group’s concerns by speaking at length about his support for school choice, home schooling, conservative judges and Israel.

All drew earnest – even enthusiastic – applause. He also gave a detailed plan for reducing abortions and increasing adoptions, the meatiest policy element of his speech.

It was the “everything but” approach – he could agree with the audience on almost everything except whether a woman should be able to choose an abortion, which he supports.

"You and I know I’m not a perfect person,” he said. “I pray for forgiveness, I pray for strength.... I feel my faith deeply, although perhaps more privately than others, because of the way I was brought up.” He said he had prayed to God at the toughest parts of his life.

“During our lives, at some time, all of us need forgiveness,” he added. “If we expect perfection from our political leaders, we’re just asking for disappointment .... We lose trust when they’re not honest with us.... I don’t always agree with myself. [Laughter] … You’ll always know where I stand.... I will continue to extend my hand to you. I hope you’ll take it.”

Giuliani showed humor, noting that he almost entered seminary: “I know that’s hard to believe.” Noting that he attended Catholic school, he said the first school he attended where a prayer wasn’t said at the beginning of the day was the New York University School of Law.

He said that on the first day, out of confusion, he made the sign of the cross. “I looked around and realized people were staring at me,” he joked.

Giuliani pointed out that as New York mayor, he reduced murder, drugs, prostitution and other vices. "I don't believe in inevitable decline," he said, adding he shares President Ronald Reagan's belief in optimism.

"You put Republican ideas into action.... We got results. Humbly, I would say, the best results anyone in that time got in government."

"We drove pornography out of Times Square and other public spaces," he said, drawing hearty applause. "The pornographers lost and they were driven out of Times Square."

Instead of pandering to the group, Giuliani held his ground.

“We’ve got to find a way to be more inclusive,” Giuliani said. “Christianity is all about inclusiveness. It’s built around the most profound act of love in human history, isn’t it? … I’m running for president of the United States because I believe I can bring us together. Strong leadership can help us find common solutions to our problems.”

Giuliani drew laughter by saying he spends as little time in Washington as possible: “I’m afraid there’s something in the air here.”

“I’m not going to pretend that I can be all things to all people,” he declared. “I’m just not like that.”

But he added, in another dig at Romney, “I’ll always be honest with you.... You will always know where I stand.”

“You have absolutely nothing to fear from me,” Giuliani went on, adding that he was puzzled by those who make him out to be some kind of liberal activist: “Just read any New York Times editorial when I was mayor of New York City.” That got a big laugh.

Giuliani was speaking to one of the most conservative audiences in American politics. During a Christian worship service from the podium an hour before Giuliani spoke, leader Ron Freeman interspersed the praise hymn “Blessed be the Name” with the hopeful wish:

“We’ve got the right Senate and the Congress!” The prayer included: “We’ve tried hard to make your agenda, our agenda.”

Politico’s Jonathan Martin contributed to this report.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: elections; frc; giuliani; valuesvoters
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To: sofaman
In short, not doing everything humanly possible within the law to avoid a Hillary Presidency, is myopic, selfish and irresponsible.

In short, putting a liberal Republican in the White House is short-sighted, stupid and political suicide for the conservative movement.

That guarantees both parties are left-of-center parties, no conservative President until 2016 and no chance of gaining back Congress for, likely, a decade.

Some people are smart enough to realize the Clinton years were better for conservatives than the Nixon years.

Putting Giuliani in the White House sets the conservative movement back pre-Reagan.

51 posted on 10/20/2007 11:45:19 AM PDT by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: sofaman
An adult discussion? Oh really? Certainly not based on your posts!!

See post #49. And please feel free to refute anything and everything I said.

52 posted on 10/20/2007 11:45:45 AM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will ENERGIZE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: All

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=N2ZhNmQ4YjE4ODk2MmY0MzJkYWJhNDNkZGIzYTA0NTc=

Rudy’s Speech [Byron York]

Well, Rudy has made his much-awaited appearance before the Family Research Council’s Values Voter Summit. My guess is that the Giuliani campaign is going away happy. And the FRC members here – well, they may have a bit more positive view of Giuliani than they had before.

The first thing to remember is that Giuliani did not have the option of hitting a home run. It just wasn’t going to happen. Indeed, there were people in the FRC who wished he had never been invited at all. So the best result for him was to a) not do himself any damage, and b) do himself some marginal good. And it appears that he did.

“He didn’t win any converts,” one FRC insider told me. “Not in the primaries. But he might have won some of them over for a general election.” Another insider conceded that Giuliani had probably helped himself a bit, saying, “We worried about that. We knew there was an upside for him.”

The speech started out slowly – badly, actually. Giuliani made a mistake by undertaking to tell these religious voters a bit about Christianity. “We’ve got to find a way to be more inclusive,” he said. “Christianity is all about inclusiveness – it’s built around the most profound act of love in human history, isn’t it?” No one applauded. Some FRC types whispered to each other that it was a pretty odd thing for Rudy Giuliani to lecture them about religion.

Giuliani then began to tiptoe around the fact that most of the audience didn’t support him. “I’m not going to pretend to you that I can be all things to all people,” he said. “I’m just not like that.” From there, he hit the low point of his speech. “You have absolutely nothing to fear from me,” he told the audience. Like Larry Craig’s “I am not gay,” that kind of statement tends to make people think precisely the opposite. At that moment, it looked like Giuliani’s appearance might be a complete disaster.

But then…he got better. Giuliani took a few indirect shots at his fellow Republican candidates, accusing them of flip-flopping to be popular while Giuliani remained steadfast. “Isn’t it better that I tell you what I really believe,” he said, “rather than changing my positions to fit the prevailing winds?” “If I come out here and I take a poll and I try to figure out what you all believe, and then I try to repeat to you what you believe, then I’m a follower. I may be a good actor, but I’m a follower.” (Might there be any alleged flip-floppers, or perhaps an actor, in the race?)

The crowd began to warm a bit as Giuliani talked about his record in New York. “Have you been to New York City?” he asked. “I bet you’re not afraid to come there anymore.” He told the story of turning the city around, emphasizing his efforts against crime and in cleaning up Times Square. “Times Square had become a haven for drug dealers, for prostitutes, and for purveyors of pornography,” he said. “We drove pornography out.” The audience applauded.

Giuliani got more applause when he went through his stand against the Brooklyn Museum of Art. The government should never be required to give out taxpayer money to desecrate religion,” he said. “It’s just plain wrong.” Then he covered welfare reform and got more applause when he came to education. “Every parent in America should have the right to send their child to the school of their choice, including the right for responsible parents to choose home schooling. The government should not force parents to send their children to failing or inadequate schools.”

The fact that members of the audience applauded was a measure of their courtesy but also of a certain receptiveness to Giuliani. Some people dislike him so much that they won’t applaud when he says something they agree with. Most of the people in the crowd today weren’t like that.

And then Giuliani misspoke when he came to the issue that matters most to many FRC voters. Reaching the part of his speech where he says that he worked to decrease abortions and increase adoptions in New York, he said that he had worked “to decrease adoptions and – “ There was a slight pause while his staff winced. “To decrease abortions and increase adoptions…” Giuliani got back on track.

“You and I share the same goal,” he said. “A country without abortions, achieved by changing the minds and hearts of people.” He went through several steps he would take, beginning with, “I will veto any reduction in the impact of the Hyde Amendment.” and continuing with continued support of parental notification and the ban on partial birth abortion, and the appointment of strict constructionist judges.

Giuliani left the national defense part of his speech for last. He got applause for vowing to win in Iraq, and he got more applause for an extended discussion of the importance of standing by Israel. (There was an Israeli flag or two in the audience yesterday.) And then, he returned to the big topic: himself. “You and I know I’m not a perfect person,” he said in what was probably the understatement of the entire conference. But, he went on, “We lose trust with our political leaders not because they are imperfect – after all, they are human – we lose trust with them when they’re not honest with us.”

It was in many ways a different kind of Giuliani speech – I can’t remember a single reference to Hillary Clinton, although it’s possible I could have missed one or two. But it wasn’t the sort of “our real opponents are the Democrats” speech that he often gives these days. And with few exceptions, it made no mention of his Republican opponents. Instead, it was Giuliani making the best case he knew how to make for himself. It was uneven, and it had its low points, but he just kept at it and kept at it. And by the end, he had helped himself – not a huge amount, but a bit – with his biggest problem in the Republican race.


53 posted on 10/20/2007 11:46:50 AM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: Ol' Sparky
“Giuliani asks Values Voters to trust him”

In other words...
rootie:
“Who are you going to believe??? Me... or your lying a$$ eyes”?

LLS

54 posted on 10/20/2007 11:49:09 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: Ol' Sparky; Jim Robinson
I see, self-nominated and self-congratulatory, too.

I know Jim Rob's position and he's entitled to it as I am to mine.

27% of the vote? excellent! Hello, Ross Perot and Hello Pres Hillary Clinton. happy days. You can sit back and smile and deny all responsibility. You took your vote and cast it for someone that has no hope of becoming Pres and so ensuring Hillary's ascendancy to POTUS.

Oh, the joy. Oh, the Pride. Happy days are here again..

55 posted on 10/20/2007 11:49:46 AM PDT by sofaman (Ahmadinejad: Those who attempt to rewrite history are probably planning to repeat it.)
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To: Ol' Sparky
"I speak for at least half the people here, including the Founder Jim Robinson, who has stated he will not vote for Giuliani under any circumstance."

Agree.

NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN LIFE

Don't Cut and Run, vote pro-life every time. It's the way you always win.

56 posted on 10/20/2007 11:50:02 AM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: Galactica

“If Giuliani wins the Republican nomination, I will support him and urge all others to back whoever our Republican nominee is.”

Think of it like this... Some of us can’t support him because he is a Ceylon.

LLS


57 posted on 10/20/2007 11:50:37 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: Ol' Sparky; Jim Robinson
Jim Robinson, who has stated he will not vote for Giuliani under any circumstance.

That's sad to hear. We could be that much closer to a Hillary presidency, depending on whether JR gets his candidate nominated.

I'm not fired up about any of the candidates. But I am fired up to defeat Hillary, no matter what it takes. Keeping our heads about us will be necessary, and I'm afraid that may be impossible.

58 posted on 10/20/2007 11:50:50 AM PDT by narby
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To: narby
Exactly. And the best possible way to elect Hillary is to DIVIDE and SPLIT the Party WIDE-OPEN--while demoralizing the base. No one does that better than a liberal like Rudy.

P.S. What has happened here on FR is good, very good--because is a perfect example of what will happen to the Republican Party if a liberal (who is out-of-sync with traditional, long-held, core, bedrock principles and values) is nominated.

59 posted on 10/20/2007 11:53:50 AM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will ENERGIZE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: bayareablues
So Sparky, does that mean you were a Grey Davis supporter?

No, unlike you, I was hoping the conservative, Tom McClintok would be governor. And, he could have been if not for Republican-first dim wits voting for a liberal like Schwarzenegger.

Tell us, Bay Area, how brilliant it was for conservatives to have voted that liberal into office.

If you haven't learned putting liberal Republicans in office doesn't work after the havoc Schwartzenegger has inflicted on California, you're either not a conservative or just dumb.

The lesser-of-two liberal strategy fails every time it is tried. It's not possible to stop liberalism when conservatives vote for liberals. Duh!

60 posted on 10/20/2007 11:54:20 AM PDT by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: Galactica

I’m with you. I am praying that it’s not Rudy, but if it is, he’ll get my reluctant vote.

I do understand those who say they will not vote for the GOP nominee if it’s Rudy, so hold your flames. I just cannot in good conscience NOT vote for the GOP nominee.


61 posted on 10/20/2007 11:55:22 AM PDT by Theresawithanh (FRED!)
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To: Ol' Sparky
I’m anti-life
I’m a gun grabber
I’m a queer lover
I’m a “sanctuary city” person
I’m a liberal in sheep’s clothing

But, hey, I’m not such a bad guy

We agree on lots of stuff

So vote for me!

62 posted on 10/20/2007 11:56:26 AM PDT by upchuck (Hildabeaste as Prez... unimaginable, devastating misery! She will redefine "How bad can it get?")
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To: stockstrader

the people who brought us Mehlman, keep FOley, and other effete elites of the GOP leadership want us to lose focus on the primary and get distracted by the general election.

The key is to keep remembering.

NO Giuliani, no problem.

the NYC mentality GOP leadership is lock step to coronating Giuliani . (see “YOU HAVE to accept comprehensive immigration reform.” and “no its not reeeeealy amnesty”)


63 posted on 10/20/2007 11:56:28 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: stockstrader
If you want a more authoritarian, bullying, more intrusive, more controlling, all-powerful, ‘big government knows what is best’, 'Big Brother' type of government,,,,,

Then you'll make the mistakes that will allow Hillary to win.

From a strictly analytical position, Rudy would seem to have the best opportunity to pull centrist voters, the voters that actually decide elections.

But I'm thinking that Romney might have a very good ability to sell himself to centrists, once he gets a campaign rolling.

I'd love to see Fred win, but I think Hillary might destroy him.

Personally, I wish Gingrich was in the race. Although there seems to be as much Newt derangement syndrome around here as Rudy derangement. I love Gingrich's ability to start with a new page and do something new. America has lost it's dynamism, and he might be able to restore it.

But whomever wins the nomination, they'd best be able to beat Hillary. That's the bottom line for me. I'm just not sure who that would be. The question will likely turn on just how stubborn hard core conservatives are to get their way or the highway.

64 posted on 10/20/2007 11:58:45 AM PDT by narby
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To: narby; Ol' Sparky
I'm not fired up about any of the candidates. But I am fired up to defeat Hillary, no matter what it takes. Keeping our heads about us will be necessary, and I'm afraid that may be impossible.

You and those like you are the problem and you are not the cure. You do not get what you want by putting up the worst you have. You get what you want by putting up the best you have and believing in it.

Its called standing up. Whatever happened to that?

65 posted on 10/20/2007 11:59:54 AM PDT by dforest (Duncan Hunter is the best hope we have on both fronts.)
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To: Perdogg
Hillary will do far less damage than Giuliani to the conservative movement.

We know that Presidency of Bill Clinton paved the way for Republicans to win back Congress. A balanced budget and welfare reform followed as did an extension of Reagan-era economic prosperity.

Nothing good is coming from a liberal Republican pushing liberal legislation through a Democratically-controlled Congress while the GOP continues to be a shrinking minority in Congress.

I'd much rather relive the Clinton years than terminate conservatism with a Schwarzenegger-like liberal.

66 posted on 10/20/2007 12:00:42 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: ex-snook

‘We cannot diminish the value of one category of human life — the unborn — without diminishing the value of all human life.’ —Ronald Reagan


67 posted on 10/20/2007 12:01:04 PM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: Ol' Sparky
putting a liberal Republican in the White House is short-sighted, stupid and political suicide for the conservative movement.

I disagree. You're making a highly subjective statement that can't be backed up, and making it solely attempting to help your cause of defeating Rudy. It carries no water with me.

68 posted on 10/20/2007 12:01:09 PM PDT by narby
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To: LowOiL; Sturm Ruger
wake up....

"No, Rudy, it is not. You’re spouting the “religious” left’s WCC-style false doctrine. Christianity is about just the opposite..."

Christianity is not about inclusiveness? The hell it isn't. That's what makes this a great country! Inclusiveness! Christianity is all about Love, Forgiveness and Inclusiveness. Any suggestion that it isn't will reap a strident repsonse from this FReeper. And that, my FRiend, comes from a Jew.

"Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free." Freedom of expression, RELIGION, the freedom to be great!

This country is and has become great, precisely because the Founding Fathers were ardently inclusive as part of their Christian beliefs.

Over the line? Hardly.

69 posted on 10/20/2007 12:02:42 PM PDT by sofaman (Ahmadinejad: Those who attempt to rewrite history are probably planning to repeat it.)
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To: ex-snook
Don't Cut and Run, vote pro-life every time. It's the way you always win.

Or the way you ensure Hillary wins. If that's a responsible pro-life move, then it could be pretty self-defeating.

70 posted on 10/20/2007 12:04:16 PM PDT by narby
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To: stockstrader
What has happened here on FR is good, very good--because is a perfect example of what will happen to the Republican Party if a liberal (who is out-of-sync with traditional, long-held, core, bedrock principles and values) is nominated.

I'm sorry, you cannot seriously compare the political junkies at FR who follow politics and political issues like most people follow sports and gossip shows, with the rest of America.

The famous poll that says 27% of conservatives would vote for an unnamed generic canddiate is utterly worthless. Who's going to be the candidate? What party? Look at how well third parties have done the last few elections. Any pro-life billionaires out there with name recognition able to fire up enough people to give s sh*t and throw away their vote, or do you think most Americans will realy be pragmatists and vote for a candidate who will keep things status quo as oposed to Hillary who will gurantee abortions increase and become more plentiful AND paid for with your tax dollars? Now if there is going to be a well funded thirdy aprty independent candidate it will be someone like Mike Bloomberg who most certianly is a social liberal.

America is currently a center right nation, and is also a nation of pragmatists.

71 posted on 10/20/2007 12:08:17 PM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: stockstrader
the best possible way to elect Hillary is to DIVIDE and SPLIT the Party WIDE-OPEN--while demoralizing the base. No one does that better than a liberal like Rudy.

LOL. So it's all Rudy's fault that you must take positions that helps Hillary.

Listen, the help to split the party wide open is being supported by Hillary. Exactly how many trolls are there here on FR are hyping up this anti-Rudy emotionalism? I'm not saying you are one, but guaranteed there are some here.

I once thought FR was a place where conservatives could come and quietly and intelligently discuss how we were going to defeat Democrats. I see that I was mistaken.

72 posted on 10/20/2007 12:09:35 PM PDT by narby
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To: narby
"Or the way you ensure Hillary wins. "

If you want to defeat Hillary, don't support Rudy.

73 posted on 10/20/2007 12:11:03 PM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: narby
So it's all Rudy's fault that you must take positions that helps Hillary.

The split is the fault of those willing to morph the Party into something entirely unrecognizale (ref. post #49, which you have not addressed). It would be outrageous for any conservative to support someone with "those conservative credentials".

The willingness of many to 'throw the base under the bus' is the problem. Yes, then, you must be mistaken.

74 posted on 10/20/2007 12:14:13 PM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will ENERGIZE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: Theresawithanh
I do understand those who say they will not vote for the GOP nominee if it’s Rudy, so hold your flames.

I don't. It's an objectively defeatist concept.

Would you have avoided fighting in WWII because you didn't like FDR and the New Deal? No way.

Defeating liberalism sometimes involves avoiding huge steps backwards by allowing a baby step backward. A strategic retreat in order to regroup and fight more tomorrow. The long term view is the proper way to look at this, and liberalism must be defeated in detail by denying it power for decades. Even if that means voting for someone who isn't perfect.

75 posted on 10/20/2007 12:15:53 PM PDT by narby
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To: Ol' Sparky

That brilliance kept Bustamonte from being installed in Sacramento. Same brilliance will keep hillary from being installed at 1600 Penn Avenue.


76 posted on 10/20/2007 12:17:02 PM PDT by bayareablues
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To: narby

for public perception

RUDY GIULIANI IS HILLARY CLINTON

I was mayor on 9/11 = I was senator on 9/11

I will be strong on the war = I voted to approve the war

I cleaned up NYC = I will create universal healthcare

I support right to chose abortion = I support the right to chose abortion

I support the AWB = I support the AWB

We are in a PRIMARY

PRIMARY where we eliminate the unacceptable candidates and the pointless candidates.

We had many rudy bot trolls initially here who were hyping up the Giuliani campaign (more than a few paid I suspect) however, being against Giuliani as the nominee is not emotional.

No Giuliani, NO PROBLEM

is based on his positions, the reactions of various groups, and just plain logic. Eliminate Giuliani in the primary and we eliminate the Giulaini Problem.


77 posted on 10/20/2007 12:17:25 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: finnman69

What you see happening on FR (the SPLIT in the Party) is exactly,,,yes EXACTLY,,,what everyone (Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative)—pundits, talk show hosts, yes even CNN, FOX, take your pick—is talking about. The potential split in the Party is one of the most discussing topics in any political discussion—and we all know who would cause that split.


78 posted on 10/20/2007 12:17:48 PM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will ENERGIZE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: All

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/253663.aspx

Giuliani’s Value Voters Speech: No Fear
October 20, 2007

Rudy Giuliani came here to the Value Voters Summit Saturday and boldly proclaimed, “You have nothing to fear from me”. Webster’s defines fear this way: “To be afraid or feel anxious or apprehensive about a possible or probable situation or event.”

With Giuliani inching closer to the Republican nomination, fear may be gripping some social conservatives for sure. But on Saturday, Giuliani laid out his best material and full arsenal in a pitch to get their votes. The case was compelling and if Giuliani keeps making speeches like this, he has a good shot to gather enough social conservatives to his side to win the nomination.

Listen, as we’ve said here before Giuliani isn’t going to get the bulk of the single issue voters (life, marriage) but what he did Saturday is lay out a bunch of items he does have in common with social conservatives. Issues like school choice, fighting Internet pornography, keeping God’s name in the public square, increasing adoptions, home schooling support, supporting a ban on partial birth abortion, parental notification, strict constructionist judges…and oh by the way, fighting terrorism and supporting Israel. Folks, any way you slice it, that’s a boatload. It was so much material that Giuliani said forget the 20 minute time slot, I’m going over. He did. By about 20 minutes.

The question is can social conservatives overlook his pro-choice and pro-domestic partnership views and settle on all the rest he says he has in common with them? I noticed throughout the whole speech Giuliani weaved this idea of trust into everything he was saying. You can trust me. You can trust me. You can trust me. Clearly, that was a veiled shot at Mitt Romney. So was the line where he said he won’t twist issues up like a pretzel.
Afterwards, the reaction by social conservatives seemed to be pretty positive. Nobody thinks Giuliani is going to win the straw poll but I even had a policy guy from the Family Research Council tell me the speech was a 7 out of 10. That’s saying something. Some weren’t too thrilled with his ‘inclusiveness” line at the beginning of his speech (which they believe is code for liberal) and he didn’t mention marriage at all. But all in all, the speech went over better than expected from the people I talked to.

Here’s the way I see it. The speech was very good and had a lot of issue oriented meat in it. Giuliani was greeted with polite applause but left the room to an even friendlier crowd. To use a football analogy, he may not have gotten in the end zone with this crowd, but he “moved the chains” with this speech. The ball is marching down the field. No fumble.


79 posted on 10/20/2007 12:18:17 PM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: narby

You need to go soak your head. You are way off base. You are a defeatist type.

You defeat nothing by accepting a part of it. What is wrong with you?


80 posted on 10/20/2007 12:19:56 PM PDT by dforest (Duncan Hunter is the best hope we have on both fronts.)
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To: longtermmemmory
(see “YOU HAVE to accept comprehensive immigration reform.” and “no its not reeeeealy amnesty”)

No. You can have the status quo of illegals continuing to come into the country. Ok, we'll build a fence, so then they'll have to overstay visas. Same status quo.

There are innumerable ways that stubborn people unwilling to make compromises can throw the baby out with the bathwater.

81 posted on 10/20/2007 12:20:00 PM PDT by narby
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To: stockstrader

Giulaini is counting on the closet pro-abortion, anti-christian women of the GOP. Not a joke they are out there.


82 posted on 10/20/2007 12:20:25 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: narby
Threads like this really bring out the Conservative Taliban.

The Conservative Taliban will get Hill-Bill Klinton elected.

Rudy isnt my guy by far but Hill-Bill-2 WILL destroy whats left of our Nation. We cant allow that.

83 posted on 10/20/2007 12:21:27 PM PDT by blasater1960
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To: blasater1960
We cant allow that.

I agree 100%! The solution is simple. DO NOT NOMINATE A LIBERAL WHO IS AN ANATHEMA TO CORE, LONG-HELD, BEDROCK, TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN VALUES AND PRINCIPLES.

84 posted on 10/20/2007 12:23:28 PM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will ENERGIZE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: Ol' Sparky

Unbelievable. So I guess what Gary Bauer said means nothing to you. I didn’t say this, Gary Bauer said it on Sean Hannity.

You and other delusional conservatives are going to have rude awakening if Hillary wins.

If you think Hillary is going to be an electoral bonanza think again.

When Hillary’s Gestapo comes around, I don’t want to hear any whining and complaining from the likes of you.


85 posted on 10/20/2007 12:23:33 PM PDT by Perdogg (Join the NCAA basketball thread - Freemail me - Go tarheels!)
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To: stockstrader
What you see happening on FR (the SPLIT in the Party) is exactly,,,yes EXACTLY,,,what everyone (Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative)—pundits, talk show hosts, yes even CNN, FOX, take your pick—is talking about. The potential split in the Party is one of the most discussing topics in any political discussion—and we all know who would cause that split.

C'mon, you should know by now the MSM media loves nothing better than creating a story and pushing it if they see an opening. Doubly sweet if it helps the left. You know who is responsible? James Dobson started this crap issuing a pathetic and limp wristed false threat he cannot possibly follow through on, and so he is responsible for giving the media an opening to divide and conquer the right.

86 posted on 10/20/2007 12:24:03 PM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: LowOiL
"And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments. He who saith that he knoweth him and keepeth not his commandments is a liar: and the truth is not in him."

Thou shall not murder... or condone it.

87 posted on 10/20/2007 12:24:31 PM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: Ol' Sparky

Your response makes no sense. He/she said IF Giuliani wins the nomination, not that they were supporting him for the nomination before the fact.


88 posted on 10/20/2007 12:24:33 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
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To: Perdogg
Unbelievable. So I guess what Gary Bauer said means nothing to you. I didn’t say this, Gary Bauer said it on Sean Hannity. You and other delusional conservatives are going to have rude awakening if Hillary wins. If you think Hillary is going to be an electoral bonanza think again. When Hillary’s Gestapo comes around, I don’t want to hear any whining and complaining from the likes of you.

Can anyone say fariness doctrine? Watch 'em come after websites like FR too.

89 posted on 10/20/2007 12:25:18 PM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: Ol' Sparky

To be perfectly honest, If I had to vote for either one on the same ballot,I would vote for the beast. At least she is the enemy all the time and can be defeated. Fruit loop changes with the prevailing wind and IMHO is the kind of creature that will stab you in the back all the while telling you what you want to hear.


90 posted on 10/20/2007 12:25:28 PM PDT by seemoAR
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To: finnman69
"...MSM media loves nothing better than creating a story..."

No question about it. However, this story was not created by the MSM--as it really exists.

91 posted on 10/20/2007 12:26:17 PM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will ENERGIZE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: blasater1960
"Rudy isnt my guy by far but Hill-Bill-2 WILL destroy whats left of our Nation. We cant allow that."

Don't panic. You will be safe. We survived 8 years of Bill. Just remember No Giuliani, No problem.

92 posted on 10/20/2007 12:26:52 PM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: narby

Overstays are different under the law than illegal crossings.

Overstays are inspected through customs when they enter, they are now fingerprinted, they are now photographed, they are now checked against the watch lists.

NOBODY fingerprints someone after they cross the river.

That is the status quo law NOW.

By building the fence we minimize the illegal crossing and now have a far more significant controll point.

IN ADDITION, we now keep track of people leaving the country.

Thus if an overstay gets arrested, the fingerprint will eventually register.

Yes there ARE ways to reach Benjamin Franklin’s noble art of compromise, THAT abomination was no compromise. The Dream Act AMNESTY bill is also no way to sneak amnesty past the public. (just serial immigration with a public school education)

No Giulaini, No Problem.
That is the focus of this thread.


93 posted on 10/20/2007 12:27:01 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: indylindy
You get what you want by putting up the best you have and believing in it.

The "Best" at what exactly? I think we need to put up the candidate that has the best chance of winning. I'm not sure who that will be, but Rudy does have a structural advantage in the ability to attract centrist voters that other candidates may not have. And he has the toughness that Fred likely doesn't have, and toughness will be needed against Hillary.

I'm for the best candidate in Nov 2008 against Hillary. No one has made arguments that turn on some other candidate being better in 2008 than Rudy. Only arguments that he's not sufficiently pure enough to swallow for the nomination. Sorry, that's a total lack of foresight. It's thinking with emotion rather than brains.

94 posted on 10/20/2007 12:27:22 PM PDT by narby
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Hey Rudy!

I care so little about you I skipped the post entirely ,, didn’t read one single lying word of yours and placed this reply... and even this attention is more than you deserve..


95 posted on 10/20/2007 12:27:39 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: Ol' Sparky

“Giuliani asks Values Voters to trust him”

Hey, whatever flips your dress up.


96 posted on 10/20/2007 12:27:45 PM PDT by Grunthor (http://franz.org/quiz.htm)
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To: seemoAR
If I had to vote for either one on the same ballot,I would vote for the beast. At least she is the enemy all the time and can be defeated.

If you vote for and elect Hillary, what is your basis to be so confident that all of a sudden Republicans will rise up and reclaim Washington? This is the type of intellectually void reasoning that appears to be all too common with those that have such a hatred for Rudy. Its absurd to think that somehow Hillary will be better for this nation than Rudy.

97 posted on 10/20/2007 12:29:02 PM PDT by scarface367 (The problem is we have yet to find a cure for stupid)
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To: Ol' Sparky
Hillary will do far less damage than Giuliani to the conservative movement.

Really? Her reach of liberalism would last a generation or more as she would likely replace not only Ginsburg and Stevens, but also Kennedy and Scalia. You would be more comfortable having Hillary make those lifetime appointments?

Your posts continue to prove you are a liberal masquerading as a conservative trying to convince/demoralize conservatives into believing that electing Hillary is the best choice.

98 posted on 10/20/2007 12:29:16 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
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To: narby

If the pro-lifers (which I am one)was so concerned about a “pro-life” candidate, why is Sam Brownback dropping out?? I don’t recall a lot support for him.


99 posted on 10/20/2007 12:29:25 PM PDT by Perdogg (Join the NCAA basketball thread - Freemail me - Go tarheels!)
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To: Ol' Sparky

“Giuliani asks Values Voters to trust him”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZe1j4csMq8

Yeah. I’d trust him, but then I’m POST-BIRTH.


100 posted on 10/20/2007 12:29:36 PM PDT by Grunthor (http://franz.org/quiz.htm)
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