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Thompson talks of daughter who died
Yahoo News / AP ^ | 10/22/2007 | LIBBY QUAID, Associated Press Writer

Posted on 10/22/2007 4:12:11 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

TAMPA, Fla. - Republican Fred Thompson sidestepped a question about the Terri Schiavo right-to-die case last month, saying he didn't remember the details. On Monday he said he's uncomfortable discussing it because of his own daughter's death.

snip

"And this will probably be the last time I ever address it."

snip

He added: "It should be decided by families. The federal government and the state government, too — except for the court system — ought to stay out of it, as far as I'm concerned."

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: fredthompson; getoverit; moveon; schiavo; thompson
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To: DelphiUser

Am I supposed to act surprised at your revelation that your mind is used for filthy thoughts, instead of anything constructive like reading the information you asked for?


301 posted on 10/25/2007 4:45:49 PM PDT by BykrBayb (In memory of my Friend T'wit, who taught me much. ~ )
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To: bjs1779

LOL ~ I see you’re still not easy to fool.

How long since we’ve seen a visitor who came prepared?


302 posted on 10/25/2007 4:48:01 PM PDT by BykrBayb (In memory of my Friend T'wit, who taught me much. ~ )
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To: bjs1779
What do you want, the court order from Greer that she would not be fed by mouth?

If I were putting together a page for her, I'd start with a time line, call outs to significant quotes and events that would link further down in the page, with links to the original sources.

In my experience, linking to the source mans a few people will actually go and read, most will see the link and assume you are accurately transcribing it because it's so easy to check up on. When someone asks you to verify, they are usually telling the truth, or so the theory goes. As for me, when you say something, shocking like "The judge denied her last rights" a link to that order would be nice.
303 posted on 10/25/2007 4:48:47 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: bjs1779
I said: After your last post to me, I can think of a real good use for that plunger, but I'd get banned.

You said: I thought you wanted to see where Greer ordered the no feeding order orally to Terri. I see you are not much interested in that now.

When teaching someone who has expressed interest, insulting them is not usually a way to enthrall your audience.

If you want to tell me, great, he can go pound sand, I don't want to know THAT badly.
304 posted on 10/25/2007 4:53:44 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
Look dummy, I got the court order that she was to be starved to death, orally. Do you want to see it or not?
305 posted on 10/25/2007 4:53:47 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: bjs1779
Look dummy, I got the court order that she was to be starved to death, orally. Do you want to see it or not?

How juvenile, I guess I'll play along...

Dog, You stinkin pile 'O rat farts, yeah I want the link, can you stir up enough brain cells to post the link, or do I have to put up with more juvenile insults first?

(This is sad, insults as communication)

Just post the link already, 'K?
306 posted on 10/25/2007 4:58:38 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
Dog, You stinkin pile 'O rat farts, yeah I want the link, can you stir up enough brain cells to post the link, or do I have to put up with more juvenile insults first?

I think you need stick to the YouTube forum.

307 posted on 10/25/2007 5:02:28 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: bjs1779

No post? Well, I guess I’ll check back later...


308 posted on 10/25/2007 5:03:18 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
No post? Well, I guess I’ll check back later...

I thought I would give you enough time to post Judge Greer's starvation order yourself. Find it yet?

309 posted on 10/25/2007 5:06:33 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: DelphiUser; BykrBayb
That was an illegal order. Bjs1779, do have that order handy?

I think it reads something like this:

ORDERED AND ADJUDGED the Respondents' Emergency
Expedited Motion for Permission to Provide Theresa Schiavo with food
and Water by Natural Means
is is DENIED.
DONE AND ORDERED in Clearwater, Pinellas County, Florida, this 8 day of March, 2005.

It is clear that the credible testimony was that given by Dr. Bamhill for various reasons, not the least of which is that he has examined Terri Schiavo and reviewed her medical records.

While the attorney for the Respondents did get him to acknowledge that he could not say with certainty how much of her nutritional requirement she might be able to ingest orrally, he was quite positve that in no way could she comsume enough in the manner to sustain herself. The court does not feel that another medical procedue merely to specify what portion of insufficiency would result from the removal of the feeding tube warrants the granting of the Petition. Accordingly, It is ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that the Petition for Order Aurthorizing Evaluation, be and the same is hereby denied. http://judgegeorgegreer.com/docs/030805orderdenyfood.pdf

310 posted on 10/25/2007 5:31:24 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: oldenuff2no
The husband made a choice based on his legal right to do so.

The fact has been documented that he forced hospice to quit brushing her teeth.

That was damn sure enough for me to figure the entire situation out.

Unless you can explain why this was a decision made by a loving husband based on his legal right to do so.

311 posted on 10/25/2007 5:32:38 PM PDT by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: DelphiUser
You have me mixed up with another poster. Judge Greer did say, "the law of the case is that she will die." but I believe I saw a post by someone else regarding that.

Fred's running out of steam. I don't need to do anything much. If he would meet with Terri's brother, that would maybe help. There's a new thread about Terri's brother holding a summit with the GOP candidates.

People are livid about the confusion of the candidates on what's so hard about saving one person's life and being ashamed to say that you would do so???

312 posted on 10/25/2007 6:19:01 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: floriduh voter

I will never forget what they did to Terri!

I think that since the pres and the congress were so absolutely incompetent and impotent when it came to saving Terri, the candidates believe the gov’t should never have gotten involved in the first place.

Thompson’s statement, however, shuts the door on dialog. The other candidates hopefully will be more open.


313 posted on 10/25/2007 6:23:39 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (Romney Rocks!!!)
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To: DelphiUser
P.S. There's Mark Fuhrman's book, Silent Witness, there's Cheryl Ford and Dr. Craddock's book called Our Fight For Terri, there's Audrey Ignatoff's book called Remembering Terri Schiavo, there's her family's book, there's Attorney Gibbs' book, there's a book about Terri by Dianna Lynne of World Net Daily. There are more books on the way. Latest: Rear Admiral Miller (neurosurgeon) wrote a book called Do I Live or Do I Die? Who Decides?

I don't need to provide you with evidence. Her court file was approx. 50 volumes. What would you like to know? I'd have to drive down to the courthouse for you.

There are archives on the internet but certainly, if you know how to use the internet, you can find Terri archives and transcripts if you really want to.

Fred's daughter, RIP. Sorry your dad drug you into the campaign instead of giving his position on euthanasia which is illegal.

314 posted on 10/25/2007 6:27:15 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: bjs1779

Terri WAS able to communicate. When I read here that she couldn’t, at this point, I want to chuckle. Where do these people get all the bad info? You’d think they’d want to search for the truth.


315 posted on 10/25/2007 6:29:40 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: bjs1779
The good grace of the church? Wasn't it Pope John Paul II who begged that Terri's life be spared? If the Pope wasn't good enough for Michael, the best he could do was the renegade Bishop Lynch of St. Petersburg who refused to pray the rosary for Terri while she was being killed.

Bishop Lynch calls scientologists "friend". That's the climate here.

316 posted on 10/25/2007 6:32:26 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: nicmarlo

Oh, how dramatic.


317 posted on 10/25/2007 6:35:46 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: shhrubbery!
There's a thread by wagglebee. Bobby Schindler, Terri's brothers wants to meet with all the GOP candidates. They may save more than face if they would meet with him. Do you know how many votes are at stake with the amount of people across the U.S. who were on Terri's side? Those people showed up for every vigil, drove and flew many miles. If they can make that kind of committment, they deserve to know where the GOP candidates stand on euthanasia. I am talking about forced exits, not about making someone comfortable at natural death or if there is complete 100% brain death which will start the heart anyway.

Comas are different. People can wake up from comas. Years later. fregards, FV

318 posted on 10/25/2007 6:37:31 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: DelphiUser

He wanted to collect on insurance policies. Jodi wanted the wedding and the cake. She’s hefty and would wed for the big cake.


319 posted on 10/25/2007 6:38:47 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace

Murder is dramatic. What’s more dramatic is a state where judges rule that murder is legal.


320 posted on 10/25/2007 6:39:22 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: Sun
Even Nat Hentoff of The Village Voice stated more than once in The Village Voice that Terri was being murdered. If you take away food and water from anyone, they're gonna die. Nothing killed her but purposeful, willful, malicious neglect and intent.

During the last vigil in 2005, as each day passed, vigilers and people on the internet began wondering what happened to Jeb Bush? As Terri transformed into a dying vision, Jeb transformed into a coward. If he ever runs for anything, guess what? Our collective memories of Terri's barbaric death will ruin his campaign.

From gentlemen to jerk in less than two weeks!

321 posted on 10/25/2007 6:46:48 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: DelphiUser
We don't have to have stuff ready. Terri was murdered, the perfect crime.

On the other hand, FRED THOMPSON should have "stuff ready". He wants to be President and on matters of life and death, he's too hypersensitive to discuss them - ever. We've been here for FOUR YEARS. Part 1. They are trying to kill Terri. Part 2. Terri got to lie. Part 3. They are trying to kill Terri again. Part 4. They killed her. Part 5. Public awareness that this could happen to anyone no matter how many papers are drawn up. Strangers usually initiate this stuff for monetary gain or because they are twisted, and they certainly don't care...

How's that?

322 posted on 10/25/2007 6:54:39 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: DelphiUser; BykrBayb

Let’s make something real clear. You are attempting to make us look like we can put Terri’s entire case history together here for you and if we don’t do so,well, you tried to help us, but we are just too stupid? LOL Sayonara, delphiuser.


323 posted on 10/25/2007 6:58:32 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: floriduh voter

100% brain death which will start the heart anyway. SHOULD READ “stop the heart”. long day in the triangle


324 posted on 10/25/2007 7:04:51 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: floriduh voter; DelphiUser

FV, you make an excellent point. We’re not going to repost the entire case history in every post, but as you know, the entire case history is already posted here for anyone who wants to read it. DU is not the first visitor to make such unreasonable demands, and won’t be the last. (Hmmm, where have I seen “DU” before?)


325 posted on 10/25/2007 7:06:44 PM PDT by BykrBayb (In memory of my Friend T'wit, who taught me much. ~ )
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To: BykrBayb
Fred Thompson used his deceased daughter as an excuse to avoid talking about Terri.

We have now come full circle on this thread. I summed it up in sentence one. Game over.

326 posted on 10/25/2007 7:27:54 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: DelphiUser

“There’s a lot here that just does not add up to a whole number.”

Well maybe we’re making progress; there’s some hope for you if you at least realize that.

But you are taking this far too lightly which shows you are in some kind of denial. Why? I don’t know:

http://www.cnsnews.com/pdf/2003/bushnell.pdf

THIS shows that Michael Schiavo, and his friends, DID NOT want the truth to get outabout Terri’s cognitive abilities. Terri was severely brain damaged, but NOT brain dead.

==

“She is fighting like hell to stay alive. And I want the powers to be to know that,” Bob Schindler told reporters after visiting his daughter at the hospice Saturday. “Anyone that has the authority to come in and to save Terri, they can do it. It’s not too late. She’s fighting and we’re asking you to fight with her.”
Bobby Schindler, Terri Schiavo’s brother, questioned why cameras could not be allowed to document her death. He called Felos’ description of Schiavo as “the farthest thing from the truth” and said, “My sister is being killed by dehydration and starvation.”

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/26/schiavo/

Did Terri Schiavo’s husband change his mind? According to the testimony that follows, he assured a judge and jury that Terri would be given proper therapy and care. However, after receiving the proceeds of the 1992 Medical Malpractice Trial, not a single day of therapy had been given to Terri.

November 1992
Testimony of Michael Schiavo, Medical Malpractice Trial
Q. Why did you want to learn to be a nurse?
MS. Because I enjoy it and I want to learn more how to take care of Terri.
Q. You’re a young man. Your life is ahead of you. When you look up the road, what do you see for yourself?
MS. I see myself hopefully finishing school and taking care of my wife.
Q. Where do you want to take care of your wife?
MS. I want to bring her home.
Q. If you had the resources available to you, if you had the equipment and the people, would you do that?
MS. Yes, I would, in a heartbeat.
Q. How do you feel about being married to Terri now.
MS. I feel wonderful. She’s my life and I wouldn’t trade her for the world. I believe in my marriage vows.
Q. You believe in your wedding vows, what do you mean by that?
MS. I believe in the vows I took with my wife, through sickness, in health, for richer or poor. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I’m going to do that.

http://www.terrisfight.org/change.html


Quotes from Bob Schindler (Terri’s dad)
“Long before and during the malpractice trial, you made a number of commitments to Mary and myself. One of your commitments was that award money was to be used to enhance Terri’s medical and neurological care.”
BOB SCHINDLER: And after the money came in, it was maybe two months after that, and I confronted him and asked him when are you going to begin Terri’s rehabilitation? And he told me to mind my own business. Now, he had, you know, promised that before. So it was a complete change. And that was the onset of the problem.

http://www.zimp.org/stuff/contradictions.htm


327 posted on 10/25/2007 7:33:06 PM PDT by Sun (Duncan Hunter: pro-God/life/borders, understands Red China threat, NRA A+rating! www.gohunter08.com)
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To: BykrBayb; bjs1779; Sun
Here's the Petition to Impeach Greer. The author of the Petition numbers many of the laws that were broken but the lawlessness continued well after the date of the Petition. This is a good summary of the judicial tyrannist.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ijg520/petition.html

328 posted on 10/25/2007 7:45:13 PM PDT by floriduh voter (Terri Ping List: 8mmmauser & I'm 4 DUNCAN HUNTER & ?????????)
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To: floriduh voter; All

“Here’s the Petition to Impeach Greer. The author of the Petition numbers many of the laws that were broken but the lawlessness continued well after the date of the Petition.
This is a good summary of the judicial tyrannist.”

http://www.petitiononline.com/ijg520/petition.html

Thanks!


329 posted on 10/25/2007 7:58:00 PM PDT by Sun (Duncan Hunter: pro-God/life/borders, understands Red China threat, NRA A+rating! www.gohunter08.com)
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To: nmh
Looks like the plug was pulled.

This sounds like the comment of someone who hasn't been closely involved in the decisions surrounding the death of a loved one.

People die.  Get over it.

With our medical capabilities we can keep dying people alive well beyond reason.  They're going to die.  All of the "miracles of science" that are applied to prolonging their "life" (that's in quotes because someone in a terminal coma doesn't have a life) are ridiculous and futile.  But watching over them through that painful process is hardly "pulling the plug." 

Yet it entails a lot of the same emotional and moral choices.

Aren't we supposed to go find someone (even a crack pot pseudo scientist)  to try some incredibly experinmental (and incredibly expensive) procedure to "save" the person who all the instruments say is brain dead?  If you don't do that, won't you be accuse of "pulling the plug?"

My mother died a couple of years ago, several weeks after suffering a massive stroke.  She was conscious and coherent, though in pain, when she got to the hospital and the doctors (some of the best in the world) performed surgery to try to save her life.  When they got into her brain they found much more damage and a much more serious situation than they could possibly cope with, no matter what they did.  She never regained conscousness. 

I sat with her for 4 days after arriving from my home far away from where my parents lived.  I waited to come for nearly 10 days because I knew what was happening, based on years of working on ambulances in New York City and the surrounding area.  She was being sustained by all of the "marvels" of modern medicine.   Nothing was cut, pulled or witheld. 

And she died. 

She would have died two weeks earlier without the "extrodianiary care" provide by Stanford University Hospital, but our society demands that we "never give up" in these situations.  That's to allow for the one in a million who recovers from these sorts of situations against all of the accumulated knowledge and expertise of the priests of Hypocratese.

Besides, the insurance company will pick up the bill.  And if they won't Hillary will.

Bottom line, I'd recommend those trying to hack at Fred over this comment with no better evidence than presented in the article should read Matthew, chapter 7.

Then I'd recommend that they spend a year or two working with people in hospice care.  Then they might be in a position to talk about this situation and the choices (or non choices) others have made.

330 posted on 10/25/2007 8:06:06 PM PDT by Phsstpok (When you don't know where you are, but you don't care, you're not lost, you're exploring!)
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To: BykrBayb

“Hopefully our visitors will take the time to read it. I don’t have a magic plunger to force the truth down their throats.”

Some have been thoroughly brainwashed by MSM.

But many will open up their hearts and minds after reading the TRUTH.


331 posted on 10/25/2007 8:07:04 PM PDT by Sun (Duncan Hunter: pro-God/life/borders, understands Red China threat, NRA A+rating! www.gohunter08.com)
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To: floriduh voter

Perhaps he doesn’t wish to discuss it because it’s an emotional, difficult issue, and he doesn’t wish to deal with judgemental folks like yourself who attempt to try and make him feel that he somehow did something wrong.


332 posted on 10/25/2007 8:09:20 PM PDT by RockinRight (The Council on Illuminated Foreign Masons told me to watch you from my black helicopter.)
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To: DelphiUser
Son, you may be older than me, but you are making me feel like I am talking to my kids, Common knowledge isn't common and it isn't knowledge, it's assumptions based on everybody agreeing that it's true.

Where were you, member since 2003, over two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, when this information was not only more than common knowledge, linked to, posted on, and discussed, but just about 30% of threads, at least, were concerning Terri, Judge Greer and the laws he broke, as well as the laws that another Judge broke during those time periods? How about the Sheriff of Pinellas County hiring Michael Schiavo to be a nurse as this fiasco was ongoing? How about the fact that Terri's parents, confided attorney-client information to an attorney who later became a judge that ruled on this matter? That was also against any kind of judicial canon and, if I recall correctly, was illegal. There's more concerning Social Security fraud as concerns medicare applications.

That was common knowledge also.

What are you, Rip Van Winkle???

333 posted on 10/25/2007 8:17:21 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: bjs1779; floriduh voter; Saundra Duffy; Sun
This kind of sums up the "Attitude" i see here:
"I don't need to provide you with evidence. Her court file was approx. 50 volumes. What would you like to know? I'd have to drive down to the courthouse for you."
I am not in Denial, I'm busy.
I am not taking this "Too lightly" I learned to make jokes while paralyzed from the neck down, staring death in the face, it was the only way to stay (mostly) sane.
I am not a member of the Michael Schivo fan club and never have been.
I figure, largely on the evidence of that video, that Terri was indeed capable of deciding for herself (my blinking example earlier), it was at best a horrible mistake, at worst premeditated murder (more probably the latter).
I, like most of the public did not see this as an election issue for this year.

You guys act like I am the enemy, I am not. I asked a few questions, after stating my experience with pluralization as my motive to be involved and make sure I had the right to die if I wanted to. That's it. Beyond that, I asked a few questions.

I watched a video I had not seen before (spare me the recriminations on that, there are plenty of things each of you haven't seen either.) I stated that that made me think she was not (as I had hard) in PVS I asked a question about the light bar.

I got back sniping questions about my motive for asking, suggestions that I read "The Threads" and complaints that I was asking you guys to work.

Hey, if you cared, you would not feel put out by someone asking you for some data that you should already have / know.

I posted some suggestions on how you could be more effective in helping people "see" what happened with Terri. I was called lazy, stupid, and dummy. I responded by trying to play along with the "insult as conversation" thing. I was told to go watch you tube.

In short your recruitment technique needs work.

You want people to use this as an issue in the election?

You want people to understand what the tarnation you are talking about?

You want to have people agree with you once they do?

Drop the attitude of insults. Drop the attitude of laziness (yes, I just called you lazy) If you want your point to be clear, have a short (the reference I was sent to earlier was too long) Maybe three paragraphs, links to more information.

Draw your conclusion that this is an important issue for this election, and call people to action on it.

As for me, I was almost interested enough to build the web page for you, I was considering starting the Wiki I know how to do all that, but, Not after the way I've been treated here. I have seen the video, and yep, the Judge said no food by "Natural Means".

I have seen nothing that said the Judge ordered the priest not to give her last rites (church / State, etc.)

It's not like I think I would have been an irreplaceable asset, but, I am a voter, and you have pretty much convinced me that I don't want to be associated with THIS group.

Look guys, don't bother to reply, don't go away mad, just go away, OK?
334 posted on 10/25/2007 9:00:45 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser; bjs1779; floriduh voter; Saundra Duffy; Sun
Look guys, don't bother to reply, don't go away mad, just go away, OK?

Would the last conservative to evacuate please bring our founder with you?

335 posted on 10/25/2007 9:11:29 PM PDT by BykrBayb (In memory of my Friend T'wit, who taught me much. ~ )
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To: nicmarlo
What are you, Rip Van Winkle???

Nic, you weren't one of the ones being rude, so I'll answer.

I went to some of those threads then, and when I stated that I had a living will, and had left instructions that after six months with less than 60% chance of full recovery to pull the plug, people got downright nasty. I was called names, and no one would answer questions... Not much has changed, except this time, there was a video, this time I actually think you guys might be right she wanted to live, and could communicate, but this group is downright embarrassing to deal with you guys make religion threads look sane.

Enjoy your thread, you almost had a convert to your cause, and if you've seen me on the "Mormon" threads you know how tenacious I can be for a cause I have signed on to.

But, before I had committed, you guys... well, I can take a hint.
336 posted on 10/25/2007 9:12:17 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

pluralization = Parilization, Sheesh!


337 posted on 10/25/2007 9:14:49 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
except this time, there was a video

That video, IIRC, was on those threads. And, BTW, all the documents you want produced...I believe they are becoming harder and harder to come by. When Terri was alive, her family kept a website going, just about Terri and updated it regularly with affidavits and court orders and the like (I don't know that status of late, though I know they have taken this on as a cause for all people treated like Terri).

There were other websites which also had links to original documents, filed with the courts. I personally know that one site, which had these documents back then, had its server attacked numerous times. The creeps who are and were behind killing people ("death with dignity") remind me of the same wackos associated with the green movement, etc. It's now been over two years since Terri died. As I said, it's become more and more difficult to link directly to documents any longer. Though many documents were likely downloaded at the time (which I did as well), I doubt many people have the capacity to store so much data forever on their websites, or wish to continue dealing with server attacks. I also know that the forces behind the "murdering people who can't speak for themselves" crowd have lots of money. There are lots of corporations/people that are profiting in the "death business." They're akin to the ACLU...virtual deep pockets to go against those who resist them.

You can easily spend the time searching on FR likely some of the best-recorded documentation of all sources. Just type "Schiavo"....you'll likely have THOUSANDS of threads come up. If you object to doing that because of the length of time it'll take you to weed through all those threads to find links, then you'll understand why no one on these threads is willing to do that for you. They could literally spend hours trying to find threads which have 1) links to sources; 2) links to sources which are now dead (excuse the pun); 3) links to sources which aren't dead.

BTW, many of us used to do this, ad nauseum, back then. Our reward for doing that was: arrogant/ridiculous retorts about the links some spent a great deal of time, even then, locating. Many of these joksters "demanded" links, and after getting them, continued to post just to bait. I don't know how many people got banned because of all the baiting.

As far as changing your mind or not changing your mind, honestly, I don't care. If your mind is dependent upon someone's attitude that you don't like, that's the wrong place to put your belief. I know that the Lord has told me the place I am to look is to Him, not at how people are acting or behaving in the world around me. People are people but He is God. He is the One to Whom I base what my own Christianity and beliefs are all about, not on what I may dislike or think is or may be hypocritical with people who attend church.

338 posted on 10/25/2007 9:46:00 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Nic,

Thank you for a reasoned and reasonable reply.

I didn't frequent those treads back then because I was not welcome, and I had not ever seen any evidence (until earlier today) that there was a miscarriage of justice, only impassioned statements be people with no backup (not saying there was none, just that it was not presented).

All the more reason for someone to build themselves a personal Wiki, names dates, document descriptors so this stuff can be found when it is important to do so. (No, I do not think that responding to me is an event that should trigger that level of search) but the snarky comments were over the top, and name calling? Sheesh!

The people who responded to me at first, presented themselves as being committed to Terri's fight, then they told me they were too busy, why didn't I go read the threads? Sorry, but I find that level of commitment is underwhelming. If it were something I cared deeply about as many here have started, I would build the Wiki, and put it on Yahoo groups as a document belonging to the group, instant storage, instant perpetuity, instant access and portability.

Nic, I truly believe that every technical problem has a technical solution, if you guys believe you have a duty to God to carry on, then what are you waiting for? I believe in God, I believe he will have some very damning words to say to Michael Schivo (pun fully intended) when they meet at the judgment bar.

I know what you mean about the "Ad nauseum" thing, I felt the same way about many of the questions I routinely answered, that's why i built my home page the way it is. Other people referee it too, so it becomes a resource, kind of like the Wiki, but less detailed.

Anyway, they were and are good ideas, maybe that is why God had me drop by.

Have a wonderful night's sleep, and may you have a blessed day tomorrow.
339 posted on 10/25/2007 10:28:07 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
only impassioned statements be people with no backup (not saying there was none, just that it was not presented).

I don't know what threads you were on, but I know for a fact that almost every thread had lots of links to lots of backup. I was on many, and posted tons of links/backup over numerous threads. Perhaps you may have "jumped" on a thread at particular point, past the point where the links were posted. They numbered to the thousands on those threads. Of course, what was previously linked would NOT continued to be reposted over and over on a thread. As you likely know, especially when there is "real time" posting on a "hot topic" even today, the posts could well be 100 in the space of even minutes. Links and comments "get lost" on large threads like that after awhile.

In any event, some people DID start their own websites, and their information and/or server was attacked...even multiple times. I also know that some others were surprised when documents started "disappearing" on the web and likely had procrastinated downloading them to a safe place. Building and maintaining a website is probably beyond the ability of many. And for others, they may not have even thought about that at the time but kicked themselves afterwards, when it was all but "too late" to get documents any longer. And for others, obviously there will be some who just had no interest or desire in "working" that hard. There will always be those.

As far as "carrying on," I left FR for a year, and it mostly had to do with my disgust concerning those who claimed to be conservatives but were all for "putting down" human beings because they were no longer "worthwhile" to keep alive; in favor of having our country overrun by those who have no right to be within this country, using up services and benefits to which they are not entitled....so some can have cheaper employees and lettuce.

I have nothing to do with the promotion of murder or law breaking....and too many in FR did.

340 posted on 10/25/2007 10:48:39 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: DelphiUser; bjs1779; floriduh voter; Saundra Duffy; Sun; 8mmMauser; wagglebee; nicmarlo; ...

DU, I don’t owe you an explanation as to why I don’t have access to the documents you’re too lazy to look for, but I’ll tell you one of the reasons that isn’t too personal. I’m not at my own computer right now. There are other reasons as well, but I’m not going to tell you my whole life story.

I told you where you could find the documents, and I pinged a couple people I thought might have what you claimed to be looking for. As a matter of fact, they provided the info you claimed to be interested in, but you were still nasty toward them and me.

While using someone else’s computer, I was able to find a large cache of legal records documenting some of the laws that were flouted in pursuit of Terri’s death. I doubt you’ll read any of it, but here’s a sample. These are actual court documents, not one-liners, so be prepared to do some reading. I’m pinging a few people who may not have seen these lately.

Briefs & Other Documents in Case No. 01-559

Filed_03-22-2001_NoticeToInvoke.pdf ~ http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/01/01-559/Filed_03-22-2001_NoticeToInvoke.pdf

Filed_03-30-2001_JurisBriefPart1.pdf ~ http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/01/01-559/Filed_03-30-2001_JurisBriefPart1.pdf

Filed_03-30-2001_JurisBriefPart2.pdf ~ http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/01/01-559/Filed_03-30-2001_JurisBriefPart2.pdf

Filed_04-12-2001_MotionForStayAppendix1.pdf ~ http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/01/01-559/Filed_04-12-2001_MotionForStayAppendix1.pdf

Filed_04-12-2001_MotionForStayAppendix2.pdf ~ http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/01/01-559/Filed_04-12-2001_MotionForStayAppendix2.pdf

Filed_04-12-2001_MotionForStayPart1.pdf ~ http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/01/01-559/Filed_04-12-2001_MotionForStayPart1.pdf

Filed_04-12-2001_MotionForStayPart2.pdf ~ http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/01/01-559/Filed_04-12-2001_MotionForStayPart2.pdf

Filed_04-12-2001_RequestForResponse.pdf ~ http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/01/01-559/Filed_04-12-2001_RequestForResponse.pdf

Filed_04-18-2001_OrderDenying.pdf ~ http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/pub_info/summaries/briefs/01/01-559/Filed_04-18-2001_OrderDenying.pdf


341 posted on 10/26/2007 12:32:00 AM PDT by BykrBayb (In memory of my Friend T'wit, who taught me much. ~ )
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

The Law, as it existed, was the basis of the ruling in the Terri Schiavo case. That doesn’t make it right, moral, or ethical.

From a moral and ethical standpoint, it was murder. There is no rationale for killing a woman who is alive and breathing on her own, when her parents and siblings were willing to care for her for the rest of her natural life.

The devoted husband certainly had his own agenda, and had much to gain from Terri’s death.

While we don’t know the details of the tragic death of Fred’s daughter,what I don’t like is his waffling about it. Every person in America had an opinion on Terri Schiavo, everyone knew about the case. Dissimulating, and pretending to be ignorant because it is a painful subject for you, is not a good quality for one who wishes to lead the country. leader


342 posted on 10/26/2007 1:13:34 AM PDT by Cincinna (HILLARY & HER HINO :: Keep the Arkansas Grifters out of the White house.)
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To: RobbyS

Good point. The fact is that Michael Schiavo had aligned himself with every pro-death, pro-Euthanasia group and Lobby in the country. All this is Clearwater, Florida... Scientology Land.


343 posted on 10/26/2007 1:17:22 AM PDT by Cincinna (HILLARY & HER HINO :: Keep the Arkansas Grifters out of the White house.)
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To: DelphiUser; BykrBayb; bjs1779; floriduh voter; Sun; Tajitaw
The people who responded to me at first, presented themselves as being committed to Terri's fight, then they told me they were too busy, why didn't I go read the threads? Sorry, but I find that level of commitment is underwhelming. If it were something I cared deeply about as many here have started, I would build the Wiki, and put it on Yahoo groups as a document belonging to the group, instant storage, instant perpetuity, instant access and portability.

I think we need a bit of clarification here so you will be properly whelmed.

If ever existed a classic example of failing to see the elephant in the room, this is it. We are the elephant. (except I am on a diet...)

I am really tickled you are seeing beyond left wing mantras, but consider this. Terri Dailies has existed even after her terrible killing two and a half years ago. Terri Dailies have thrived and have been updated every single day, covering more angles than any other source anywhere else! We have introduced time and again volumes of compelling evidence as to what we know these days as reality. For example, you need look no further than what we read, that excellent source of OurFight4Terri written right after the event. Detractors simply are unable to disprove an iota. So they yell at us instead. Each day thereafter, Terri Dailies are updated with each item appearing in the news and topics directly related. The resources we present are vast.

Now, since you believe you were short-sheeted by the likes of us, ponder this. Because we keep rooting out facts and evidence, detractors swarm on us like flies, pestering with bs and mantras. As in the famed bugzapper threads we found ourselves swatting these flies left and left. The floors beneath our keyboards are littered with croaked flies. Naturally when a visitor shows up and challenges known truths with mantras, we think of flies.

Supposing you are willing to learn, please set aside the emotions and check out what we have before you. It is a banquet of truth.

8mm

344 posted on 10/26/2007 4:29:32 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
Pinged again from Terri Dailies

8mm


345 posted on 10/26/2007 4:44:10 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 8mmMauser; DelphiUser

“and check out what we have before you. It is a banquet of truth.”

A wealth of information for anyone sincerely looking for the truth.


346 posted on 10/26/2007 6:23:55 AM PDT by Sun (Duncan Hunter: pro-God/life/borders, understands Red China threat, NRA A+rating! www.gohunter08.com)
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To: BykrBayb; DelphiUser

Great info in post 341.

Here’s more:

http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/Humana%20Discharge%20Summary%20050990.pdf

HOWEVER, This quote from Terri’s nurse: “I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag. [Another CAN] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy,” Law recalled. “On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jell-O, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely.”

Taking away Terri’s feeding tube was just an excuse to kill her, when she was not even allowed to take nourishment by mouth.

And,

Carl Iyer testimony:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1367704/posts

And,

Quotes from Bob Schindler (Terri’s dad)

“Long before and during the malpractice trial, you made a number of commitments to Mary and myself. One of your commitments was that award money was to be used to enhance Terri’s medical and neurological care.”

BOB SCHINDLER: And after the money came in, it was maybe two months after that, and I confronted him and asked him when are you going to begin Terri’s rehabilitation? And he told me to mind my own business. Now, he had, you know, promised that before. So it was a complete change. And that was the onset of the problem.

http://www.zimp.org/stuff/contradictions.htm

Click for picture of Terri BEFORE her therapy was criminally halted:

http://johnsipos.com/terrisittingup.jpg


347 posted on 10/26/2007 6:37:22 AM PDT by Sun (Duncan Hunter: pro-God/life/borders, understands Red China threat, NRA A+rating! www.gohunter08.com)
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To: Cincinna

What concerned me was the connections of the judge. It has been some time since I reviewed the case, but I recall that they were such as to call into question his impartiality. What amazed me was that he would even make a judgement in the matter of Terri’s fate when he could have simply handed her care over to her birth family. I mean Solomon had already provided with with a precedent in such matters.


348 posted on 10/26/2007 7:10:20 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: BykrBayb; bjs1779; floriduh voter; Saundra Duffy; Sun; 8mmMauser; wagglebee; nicmarlo
I am surprised to find myself responding to you this morning.

And, I am not going to get into a "Lazy" argument, I will thank you for providing documents that it would have taken me days to find, you of course, knowing what to look for found it quicker. Thank you.

If I have been nasty, it was because I was not being treated nicely, sometimes what you find on a table is what you brought to it.

I have read the briefs you linked, and here are my thoughts:

  1. Refusing a guardian ad litem? Why in the name of anything fair...
  2. IMHO a judge cannot act as both a representative and an arbiter, and be acting in good faith.
  3. In This Document "The Petition filed by the guardian seeking withdrawal of the ward's feeding tube, which will inevitably result in the ward's death, appears on its face to be an action by "the guardian against the ward" which requires the appointment and involvement of a guardian ad litem pursuant to Fla. Stat. 744.391 (1977)"

    This statement is damning evidence (IMHO) that the court acted improperly and the judge was basically taking sides with Michael.
  4. IMHO, this is extremely important, "Terri's parents believe their daughter has cognition" If she can respond to show her wishes in *any* way, then those wishes IMHO should trump any prior statements made by her (people change their minds) again IMHO this should have been pursued vigorously, and the video I saw was excellent evidence for example.
  5. the money as motive, marriage as motive, him as only witness...
The request for response was uninspiring, but the denying order was final and I must say a bit disappointing just to read without the knowledge that it meant a life would end.

IMHO, the supreme court had clear jurisdiction to take up the case via the stay request. Governor Bush signed "Terri's Law" which they overturned, and that may have had some influence on their refusal to consider the case.

I have a question, and don't jump down my throat on this, OK?

IF the president of the united states is for, or against Terry, how does that affect their fitness for office? I cannot imagine any sitting president vetoing a bill clarifying the rights, or guaranteeing minimum test, Guardians, etc for people who's desire not to be kept alive by artificial means is in question (I think even X42 would have signed that) the president does not have the power to reach down and override a state supreme court, but the USSC does, does anyone know if they were contacted (No document required, thanks)

Governor bush has been referred to as a chicken in some of the posts here, why? He championed and signed a bill aimed at saving her life, and got slapped down by the supreme court of Florida, what else was he supposed to do and not break the law himself?

Please explain other than as a character issue you would want a president to do on this, because frankly I don't understand.

Before anyone gets huffy, let me point out that when I came to this thread, it was as a Fred Thompson supporter, and his name was on the title. I arrived figuring that there were these fanatics who didn't want Terri to be able to decide that she didn't want to be kept alive and that her husband was carrying out her wishes (although in a despicable fashion).

I was wrong about all that, it was murder of someone who I believe could have communicated her desire to live and who probably could have had significant recovery (not like going home or driving a race car, but speech and feeding herself, etc.) if given the proper therapy.

If that was your goal, then you have succeeded, as a recent convert to the cause, I will be playing catch up for some time, so please explain why this matters in a presidential race and why my guy (the reason I came to this thread) is on the wrong side of the issue.

Thanks,
DU
349 posted on 10/26/2007 8:57:57 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: 8mmMauser
Now, since you believe you were short-sheeted by the likes of us, ponder this. Because we keep rooting out facts and evidence, detractors swarm on us like flies, pestering with bs and mantras.

As a Mormon on FR, I completely understand you on this, however, sometimes how you say something is as or more important than what you are saying. Just a word to the wise, you guys will catch more fies wit honey than vinegar, and even if some bees come to steal, keep putting out the honey.

Detractors simply are unable to disprove an iota. So they yell at us instead.

Again, As a Mormon, I completely understand.

Naturally when a visitor shows up and challenges known truths with mantras, we think of flies.

Which means if an honest inquisitor does show up you swat them? Not good PR...

Supposing you are willing to learn, please set aside the emotions and check out what we have before you. It is a banquet of truth.

I think reason and compassion are needed in Terri's case, compassion, that's something Michael could have used a bit, OK, a whole lot more of.

P.S. I think from the postings on this thread, that you are a Catholic, I am not trying to start a religious war here, just that I understand, 'K?
350 posted on 10/26/2007 9:07:41 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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