Bar blasts judge for calling prostitute's rape 'robbery'(FEMALE JUDGE!!!!)

AP ^ | 11/1/2007 | Maryclaire Dale

[Red in Blue PA]

In a rare rebuke, the city's bar association condemned a judge who dismissed rape charges in the alleged gang rape of a prostitute and instead called it a theft of services.

The prostitute admitted going to a home on Sept. 20 to have paid sex with a customer but said she was instead gang-raped by four men, including the customer, while he fixed a gun on her.

Municipal Judge Teresa Carr Deni dropped the rape and sexual-assault charges at an Oct. 4 preliminary hearing, but upheld robbery, false imprisonment and conspiracy charges against Dominique Gindraw.

Deni has since heightened the furor in defending her decision to a newspaper.

''She consented and she didn't get paid,'' Deni told the Philadelphia Daily News. ''I thought it was a robbery.''

[Enterprise]

The defense might try a “theft of services” argument. But the prosecution will still go with rape. The prosecution will go with a theory that the four men talked about this before hand and that one of them called with the initial offer. Upon her arrival he enticed her to stay with the prospect of earning more money. Then the call was made to let the others know she arrived and they proceeded to rape her. The prosecution will argue that the men involved never had the intent to pay her and that it was a gang rape planned from the start.

[Mrs. Don-o]

No, really. You're the one who wrote

“since at some point they will offer their services for money.... More realistically at ANY point.... I don’t believe there are many hookers out their that won’t negotiate a price given the opportunity."

So you know that how? Was there a survey in Time maazine, then? Maybe you're basisng your insights on movies? How would you know?

[Constantine XIII]

Go back to Saudi Arabia.

[colorcountry]

I didn’t punish the woman.

If I saw her laying bleeding in the road, I would certainly offer my services, call the police and ambulance. If I witnessed the crime, I would stand in court and testify. Hopefully I could inspire her to change her life. This is all I could possibly do in Christ.

[Red in Blue PA]

Indeed the thinking of many here is probably identical to most men in Riyadh.

[Enterprise]

Some here are saying in essence: "Prostitutes cannot be raped," or "Prostitutes who are raped deserve it."

Dreadful!

[Constantine XIII]

[Mrs. Don-o]

I think you intended this for somebody else. I’m on your side. I’m defending the right of the prostitute-— and of every man, woman, boy, girl, and sentient life form -— not to be raped.

[colorcountry]

No Red, you act like you are the only one who can have an opinion. You called me names and questioned my intelligence, you are a n00b who has threatened to quit coming to FR unless we all agree with you.

Why are you here?

[traderrob6]

I never said “I know” I said “I believe” and it’s what’s known as an educated guess.

Any other rationale would be possible but highly counterintuitive.

[colorcountry]

I believe she consented when she agreed to a price and appeared at the man’s home ready to engage in sex. She made herself a commodity to be bought and sold.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Reforming her life is certainly necessary if she wants to be treated with respect by law and man, but prescinding from that point for a moment, can we agree that the central point of the rape law is consent?

There is no general, blanket presumption of consent. Even a married woman, who has an ongoing legally-recognized sexual relationship with her busband, can prosecute for rape if she can prove force, threat of force, or explicit coercion (overriding her right to consent or refuse.) Hard to prove perhaps, rarely leading to conviction perhaps, but she still has standing to bring the charges.

[Constantine XIII]

LOL, seniority.

And you spelled n00b with zeros. OMG how 1337.

Why are you posting over and over how you don’t think you can rape a prostitute? This seems to be really important to you.

Sheesh, this is more asinine than those retarded “black people aren’t as smart as us white people lol” threads that have been trashing up the place.

[BMiles2112]

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. Of course the prosecution would go with rape. They would be stupid not to. The reason for my question is, basically, that cases like this illuminate the type of moral confusion that results from reducing the act of sex to, in the case of prostitution, a service, or in the larger case of our sexually “liberated” society, no big deal. Sex, whether consensual or not, is either a big deal or it’s not. Those who have decided that prostitution is a fine career that should be legalized, and who have decided that meaningless sex is possible, cannot at the same time consider rape to be all that bad. Probably outside the context of this discussion, but that’s where I was headed.

[Red in Blue PA]

Re: You called me names and questioned my intelligence,

I also question the intelligence of those who believe in honor killings.

Or supporters of the Hudood Ordinance.

Or supporters of stonings.

Sadly, your opinion lines up with those opinions very closely, so do not be surprised to hear people question your intelligence.

[Ancient Drive]

A crime is still a crime no matter who the recipient is. Say a drug user shows up for a fix and instead gets pummeled close to the light at the end of the tunnel... was a crime perpetrated or was it not?

[traderrob6]

Again, I believe the distinction in busineess practcie is the key element of the argument.

If the repairman had on his list of services: blades sharpened $25, BJs $50 and someone came into his business and forced the repairman into a free BJ at gunpoint that would be armed robbery not rape.

As a business person one can’t offer a service at reasonable compensation to the general public and then pick and choose who may and may not be served.

[Red in Blue PA]

She consented to a GANG RAPE with a gun held to her head?

You must have read a different story.

[Red in Blue PA]

Re: As a business person one can’t offer a service at reasonable compensation to the general public and then pick and choose who may and may not be served.

Of course they can.

McDonald’s can refuse you serveice if you do not have shoes on.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"If a prostitute chooses to lower themselves to the level of selling sex as a commodity and the dispensation of it as a business endeavor then it should be legally treated as such."

The law doesnt't recognize sexual intercourse as a commodity in the jurisdiction in which the crime was committed. If she chooses to sell other things that the law doesn't recognize as commodities-- say she offers to sell her children and somebody takes her children without paying--- should that be treated as theft? Or kidnapping?

That's not to say she should be held innocent in such a case. If a woman attempts to contract to sell her children, she can be prosecuted for that. If a woman solicits for prostitution, she should be prosecuted for solicitation. And the men, in this case, prosecuted for rape.