Skip to comments.Crater From 1908 Russian Space Impact Found, Team Says (Tunguska)
Posted on 11/14/2007 8:31:07 PM PST by blam
Crater From 1908 Russian Space Impact Found, Team Says
Maria Cristina Valsecchi in Rome, Italy
for National Geographic News
November 7, 2007
Almost a century after a mysterious explosion in Russia flattened a huge swath of Siberian forest, scientists have found what they believe is a crater made by the cosmic object that made the blast.
The crater was discovered under a lake near the Podkamennaya Tunguska River in western Siberia, where the cataclysm, known as the Tunguska event, took place (see map).
On June 30, 1908, a ball of fire exploded about 6 miles (10 kilometers) above the ground in the sparsely populated region, scientists say. The blast released 15 megatons of energyabout a thousand times that of the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshimaand flattened 770 square miles (2,000 square kilometers) of forest.
Since then many teams of scientists have combed the site, but none was able to find any fragments of an object, like a rocky asteroid or a comet, that might have caused the event.
In their new study, a team of Italian scientists used acoustic imagery to investigate the bottom of Lake Cheko, about five miles (eight kilometers) north of the explosion's suspected epicenter.
"When our expedition [was at] Tunguska, we didn't have a clue that Lake Cheko might fill a crater," said Luca Gasperini, a geologist with the Marine Science Institute in Bologna who led the study.
"We searched its bottom looking for extraterrestrial particles trapped in the mud. We mapped the basin and took samples. As we examined the data, we couldn't believe what they were suggesting.
"The funnel-like shape of the basin and samples from its sedimentary deposits suggest that the lake fills an impact crater," Gasperini said.
A "Soft Crash"
The basin of Lake Cheko is not circular, deep, and steep like a typical impact crater, the scientists say.
Instead it's elongated and shallow, about 1,640 feet (500 meters) long with a maximum depth of only 165 feet (50 meters).
It also lacks the rim of debris usually found around typical impact craters, such as the Meteor Crater in Arizona.
Gasperini's team says that the basin's unusual shape is the result of a fragment thrown from the Tunguska explosion that plowed into the ground, leaving a long, trenchlike depression.
"We suggest that a 10-meter-wide [33-foot-wide] fragment of the object escaped the explosion and kept going in the same direction. It was relatively slow, about 1 kilometer a second [0.6 mile a second]," Gasperini said.
The lake is located along the most probable track of the cosmic body, he added, which likely made a "soft crash" in the marshy terrain.
"It splashed on the soft, swampy soil and melted the underlying permafrost layer, releasing CO2 [carbon dioxide], water vapor, and methane that broadened the hole, hence the shape and size of the basin, unusual for an impact crater.
"Our hypothesis is the only one that accounts for the funnel-like morphology of Lake Cheko's bottom," he added.
In a previous expedition, Russian scientists studied Lake Cheko and concluded that it had formed before 1908, indicating that it was not formed by the Tunguska event.
The team had measured sediments on the bottom of the lake and determined that the deposits were accumulating there at about 0.4 inch (1 centimeter) a year. This suggested that Lake Cheko was several centuries old.
But Gasperini's team argues that the older deposits found by the Russians were already there when the explosion took place.
"We found evidence that only the topmost, one-meter-deep [three-foot-deep] layer of debris actually came from the inflowing river," Gasperini said.
"[The] deeper sediments are deposits that predate 1908. They were the target over which the impact took place, so Lake Cheko is only one century old."
The team's findings are based on a 1999 expedition to Tunguska and appeared in the August issue of the journal Terra Nova.
Asteroid or Comet?
William Hartmann, senior scientist of the Planetary Science Institute in Tucson, Arizona, said the new findings are compelling but do not address all of the lingering questions about the event.
"It's an exciting result that might shed new light on the Tunguska explosion," he said. "Certainly it warrants new studies of the area.
"But it raises a question in my mind: If one large fragment hit the ground, we would normally expect thousands of smaller fragments also to hit the ground along the path, and many searches have failed to find such meteorite fragments. So, why no smaller pieces?"
Finding fragments from the explosion is considered key to determining what kind of object made the impact. An asteroid would probably leave some remains, while a comet might be annihilated in the blast, Hartmann said.
"Our crater hypothesis is consistent with both possibilities," Gasperini said.
"If the body was an asteroid, a surviving fragment may be buried beneath the lake. If it was a comet, its chemical signature should be found in the deepest layers of sediments."
Gasperini and his colleagues are planning to go back to Siberia next year to search for more, and perhaps more conclusive, clues to the century-old puzzle.
"We want to dig deeply in the bottom of the lake to definitively test our hypothesis and try to solve the Tunguska mystery," he stated.
a really big
worthy of a space ping?
This might interest you on one of your ping lists, though I see Blam is right on it.
What about the theory of a mini-black hole? That would explain no crater.
Amazing how fortunate it is that the event happened in one of the few places on Earth that there was no large population nor even habitation for this even to take place.
Seems to me that the Italian Scientists are flailing a bit on this though.
Watch it you'll get thrown off the radio.
Actual the theory for years has been that the thing exploded about a mile are more above ground, they say that is why the flash was seen in Britain and there was really no crater.
Just a hunch, that I've always been drawn to.
But they do have a crater ... sort of ... the funnel shaped crater.
Perhaps an incoming cankle from the planet Canklemos’. And check Hillary’s DNA - she may not be human!
Britain and the Tunguska area are so far apart - with so much surface curvature in between - that an explosion even several miles above ground could not be seen by line-of-sight. They must have seen the item while it was still in the stratosphere, well before ground contact - so the black hole theory still works.
Also a concern during the cold war - one (likely) comet/meteor impact over South Africa was found by satellites searching for nuclear blasts in the mid-80’s.
People still aren’t really sure if it was a South African nuke blast, an Israeli nuke blast supported by SA, or just an impact event.
And Grog, Drakonian Invador from the Pleides, stull rests in suspended anioation iside his space vehicle’s escape pod, awaiting release of his spell-check distractionary. 8<)
To the Editor of the Times.
Sir,--Struck with the unusual brightness of the heavens, the band of golfers staying here strolled towards the links at 11 oclock last evening in order that they might obtain an uninterrupted view of the phenomenon. Looking northwards across the sea they found that the sky had the appearance of a dying sunset of exquisite beauty. This not only lasted but actually grew both in extent and intensity till 2:30 this morning, when driving clouds from the East obliterated the gorgeous colouring. I myself was aroused from sleep at 1:15, and so strong was the light at this hour that I could read a book by it in my chamber quite comfortably.
At 1:45 the whole sky, N. and N.-E., was a delicate salmon pink, and the birds began their matutinal song. No doubt others will have noticed this phenomenon, but as Brancaster holds an almost unique position in facing north to the sea, we who are staying here had the best possible view of it.
Dormy House Club, Brancaster, July 1 (1908)
Didn’t the former white South African government insiders later admit that the 1977 double-flash WAS one of their atomic tests?
How big do they estimate this meteorite was?
Nah, it's probably Kzanol, the Thrint, inside his slaver stasis field at the bottom of the lake. Best to let him stay there unless you want to make us all Ptaavs...
Yup, most of the world’s population prefers to be crowded into rat-infested sh!tholes .... er, I mean cities ....
I still think Tesla’s Death Ray did this (Cue Darth Vader breathing)
Astronomers Clube & Napier say in their book, Cosmic Winter, that we can expect a Tunguska class event about every 100 years.
Wasn’t Napier one of the authors of The Cosmic Serpent?
Looks like it was Jeremy Narby
Neat pictures, thanks.
Thanks, both of you. :’)
A possible impact crater for the 1908 Tunguska Event
Terra Nova | 7/01/2007 | Terra Nova
Posted on 06/22/2007 2:46:00 PM EDT by Mike Darancette
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The Cosmic Serpent
by Victor Clube
and Bill Napier
057111816X, used, ABE UK
Oh wow, I took too long, and looks like you got yet another ISBN version. :’)
However, I cannot see how a body entering the atmosphere at orbital or even sub-orbital velocities and then producing a violent megaton equivalent blast could possibly send a 10 meter portion of itself to strike the earth at a remarkably far slower velocity than the main mass.
Or until somebody drinks him to avoid rickets...
The silt evidence seems a bit muddled, if their theory held, they would find particles in the silt of their impact, and they haven’t found any.
Unless of course the Smoking Man actually has the particles and Mulder and Sculley are trying to find both.../s
A meteorite is the found on the ground residue of a meteor. The meteor does not become a meteorite until it rests on or in the ground. A little picky. I know. Sorry 'bout that. ;^)>
Thank God, it's only been 99 years since... Oh, oh!
So, efforts going back (braving the tens of billions of mosquitoes again! - will likely be focused on the lake area, so after next year they might find residue under the lake sediments.
Imagine a “slushy” comet - not a solid single rock or iron mass like a meteor/asteroid remnant. Then, near impact, it builds up enough air pressure/shock wave in front of itself to slow, heat up, and blow itself to bits: so the natural result is a slowing of the mass: not an acceleration away from the original mass like you would see from an internal explosion.
Random shock waves would not create all equal masses of pieces - so one large piece could get pushed up and away from the original trajectory (assume most the comet mass blew up at altitude at some flat (not vertical) angle to earth). Then you would see some large masses go sideways and impact at slower speeds.
Links from the wiki-wacky-pedia entry (there isn’t one on Clube):
[snip] In the early morning of June 30, 1908, a huge fireball exploded in the sky above Siberia with the force of a 20-megaton nuclear bomb, leveling 400 square miles of remote forest around the Tunguska River. The glow lit up the sky as far away as Western Europe. The Tunguska object, Clube says, was a 150-foot comet fragment—one of the Taurids. [end]
One problem with the "slushy" comet theory... We've so far driven by three comets and bashed one with a 634 pound chunk of copper and none of them were found to be "slushy." They are, apparently, just like the rocky asteroids we've visited and driven by... no slush.
Yes, thank you, I’m aware; I misspoke. And you misquoted me. We’re even then. ;^)
OK. Just for that, I may stay in your motel the next time in the area.
Um, retrorockets? And notice they report the main body threw off a smaller body. Escape pod? Xists 90 years too early?
Scurvy, not rickets.
Instead it's elongated and shallow, about 1,640 feet (500 meters) long with a maximum depth of only 165 feet (50 meters).
When meteors strike at highly supersonic speeds they always leave circular craters. This is why the Moon has only circular craters even though most impacts must have been at some angle not perpendicular to the surface at the time of impact. That this impact crater is elliptical is very interesting.
A point that is lost on most folks, especially the anthropogenic global warming believers and the folks who claim we're running out of oil.....
It was a really interesting book. That’s why From Exodus to Arthur seemed so interesting to me.