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The Club for Growth opposes Congressman Hunter
The Club for Growth ^ | October 30, 2006 | Andrew Roth

Posted on 11/24/2007 6:20:54 PM PST by Kurt Evans

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To: SoCalPol
I have proven my point that you resort to name calling instead of reasoned debate.

And you go crying to teacher to try to get you out of an argmuent you can't win on your own.

Calling Ron Paul a mental case who hates America is unworthy and should not be done.
251 posted on 11/25/2007 12:07:04 PM PST by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: Petronski

Juvenile.


252 posted on 11/25/2007 12:07:56 PM PST by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: Iwo Jima

How clever of you to self-identify. The next step is to grow up.


253 posted on 11/25/2007 12:16:24 PM PST by Petronski (Reject the liberal troika: romney, giuliani, mccain)
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To: Iwo Jima
Calling Ron Paul a mental case who hates America is painfully accurate.
254 posted on 11/25/2007 12:17:43 PM PST by Petronski (Reject the liberal troika: romney, giuliani, mccain)
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To: SoCalPol; All

“L Ron Paul is a mental case who hates America.”

I don’t think he hates America. I think he has a disjointed view (typical extreme libertarian, which is what he is no matter how many R’s he sticks behind his name)of history and the job he was hired by the American people to do. Be a legislator.

He’s failed at that miserably. He’s talked some good talk, but that wasn’t his job. His job was to get something accomplished per the promises he made his constituents.

Do you think they’d have elected him if he said, “Well, I’m gonna be on Cspan and talk alot but I’m never going to effect one piece of legislation or get one bill passed that I wrote. Instead I’m going to praise Islam, Iran and trade with China and vote against troops on the border to control illegal immigration.”

He claims to be for ‘small government’, but co sponsored 1876 bills written by other congressmen. In the same time period Duncan Hunter co sponsored 1000 fewer than Paul. So that talking point is worthless for Paul.

Who thinks this guy would have been elected in Texas on his true record?


255 posted on 11/25/2007 12:25:34 PM PST by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: SoCalPol
It seems people from sertain parts of the U.S. can’t help themselves as they are sheltered from the real world in hicksville.

They have a big mouth while hiding in the sticks. They couldn’t live in the real world.

For starters, don't waste your breath on Paul supporters. You know he's a nutcase, I know he's a nutcase, and so does everyoen else with an ounce of common sense. Pearls before swine would be appropriate here. Don't give them the bandwidth.

That said, since you're pinging Jim and invoking your friendship repeatedly, what does he think of your put downs of FReepers who live in "backwater states" and small towns that you refer to as hicksville?

256 posted on 11/25/2007 12:28:08 PM PST by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: Melas

Some of these people arn’t worthy to be FReepers.
Some of these same backwater folks bash California on other threads and that is supposed to be ok. I don’t
think so.


257 posted on 11/25/2007 12:58:02 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: Kurt Evans; OAKC0N; time4good; Mike32; genxer; PatriotEdition; Simul iustus et peccator; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

258 posted on 11/25/2007 12:59:41 PM PST by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: All; AuntB

“Wear it as a badge of honor, Congressman!” Soooooo true!

Great, INFORMATIVE counter to Opening Post in Post 203!

Please read it for the truth, folks.


259 posted on 11/25/2007 12:59:59 PM PST by Sun (Duncan Hunter: pro-God/life/borders, understands Red China threat, NRA A+rating! www.gohunter08.com)
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To: SoCalPol
Some of these same backwater folks bash California on other threads and that is supposed to be ok. I don’t think so.

I don't understand your 'backwater' or 'hiding in the sticks' remarks. I'm proud to be a backwoods hick, and I live in California! LOL

Be careful of that broad brush, it wasn't too long ago here on FR that everyone who wanted something done about illegal immigration was referred to as a 'knuckle dragger', 'hick', 'redneck'. You don't see that much these days because those were mostly Rudy type posters or now support their favorite RINO who is suddenly talking tough on immigration.

260 posted on 11/25/2007 1:11:33 PM PST by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: AuntB

California bashing on FR is also getting old as is bashing people who live in large cities.


261 posted on 11/25/2007 1:14:34 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: SoCalPol

Agreed. I must say I feel sorry for anyone who has to live in a large city. Been there, done that, wouldn’t trade what I have for all of them.


262 posted on 11/25/2007 1:18:25 PM PST by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: AuntB
I very much appreciate the fact that your criticisms are substantive rather than personal. That is a welcome development in the debate over Ron Paul.

The record that you described is not Ron Paul's "true record." His real record is well known to his constituents in Texas. That's why he keeps getting re-elected even though the Republican Party actively campaigns against him.

That Ron Paul's many liberty-advancing bills have not been enacted into law is the fault of those that oppose liberty. We will never advance liberty by getting rid of those with the right ideas in favor of those with wrong ideas who can get their ideas enacted.

Other than building the fence at San Diego, what has Duncan Hunter accomplished? Not to attack him, but he has good ideas that have not been enacted. That's not his fault. At least he's trying.

What are the accomplishments of Rudy or Romney or McCain that advanced liberty? (They don't even have the right ideas.) Or Thompson for that matter. OR ANYONE!!!

At least Ron Paul got us the American Eagle gold coin. And his pressure on the fed as chairman of the banking committee (subcommittee?) has helped to keep the fed honest, at least more so than they otherwise would have been.
263 posted on 11/25/2007 1:22:23 PM PST by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: AuntB

I enjoy living in the heart of a large busy city.


264 posted on 11/25/2007 1:25:01 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: traviskicks
Travis, for your edification, see Post 203 , which sheds the light of day on the "Club for Growth"
265 posted on 11/25/2007 1:25:39 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: Iwo Jima

Go to Hunter’s congressional site.
His major accomplishments re the military and national security for the past many years exceeds that of most congressmen and senators.


266 posted on 11/25/2007 1:28:36 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: MSF BU

Duncan Duane (D2)? You mean the congressional race in CA?

I think he will win that.

Duncan Lee (D1) though will be in the Presidential Primary.


267 posted on 11/25/2007 1:30:29 PM PST by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: AuntB

Thanks for going to the trouble of digging all this up. I knew they were globalist, but the Gingrich/Norquist linkage is an important issue that we must never forget. That pair is about the most dangerous duo in the Republican party. Newt was the reason that nothing of importance ever got done when the Republicans took over congress in ‘94.


268 posted on 11/25/2007 1:30:49 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: AuntB
In 1996, Moore along with Grover Norquist helped defeat any measures aimed at enforcement in an immigration reform bill.

That is a real eye-opening post, AuntB. Moore, Norquist and their ilk at the Country Club for Growth are the elitists of our party. They are very powerful and very influential. It's going to be very difficult to keep them from nominating Rudy next year.

As far as I am concerned, the Moore-Norquist bunch can burn in hell. They don't seem to care at all about this country.

269 posted on 11/25/2007 1:36:08 PM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: Iwo Jima

THE CASE FOR REBUILDING U.S. ARMED FORCES

http://www.house.gov/hunter/defincrisis-title.html

http://www.house.gov/hunter/news.shtml


270 posted on 11/25/2007 1:39:33 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: SoCalPol

Come on now.

Paul is tragically naive regarding the WOT, it is true. And many - I dare say MOST - of his supporters are certifiable loons, lefties and malcontents.

But Paul isn’t a “Hitler wanna be.” At least until recently, he appears to be a man motivated by a love for individual freedom. Again, I think he’s very, very wrong on foreign affairs and miliatary matters. And it is really sad that he can’t see that most of his newfound fellow-travelers don’t believe in liberty at all, but are actually leftists using his anti-war stance as a stalking horse. But let’s not say things that are just not true.

There’s enough to dislike Paul about these days without making stuff up.

Hank


271 posted on 11/25/2007 1:44:39 PM PST by County Agent Hank Kimball (Well, really just plain Hank Kimball. Well, not "just plain" Hank Kimball, just Hank Kimball....)
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To: SoCalPol
That looks very nice, though I have not had time to read it.

Ron Paul has written more. And better. And has a MUCH better website.

Face it, if you are of the opinion that one's positions and principles are not important, it's only what your have gotten enacted that matters, then NO ONE running for president holding conservative or libertarian views is going to have much in the way of political accomplishments to point to.

And THAT is the problem that we are trying to correct and which we will never correct by dismissing people who have "never done anything."
272 posted on 11/25/2007 1:48:27 PM PST by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: SoCalPol
I don’t give a rats ass about the economy and am sure those jumping from the WTC on 9/11 didn’t either.

The economy pays the war's bills.

Unfettered economies are the most prolific.

BigGov fetters too much, and BigGov spending fetters all taxpayers.

The war, which you cite as absolving several government excesses, is ostensibly about preserving the American way of life and its existence.

America's identity is its liberties (freedom of religion being one of many).

I am not willing let the Isloma-fascists take our liberties away with one attack, and I do give a rat's behind about the economy.

In WWII, the USA sent Japanese Americans to internment camps. In 2007, we shouldn't make all of America into an internment camp to fight "the war." We shouldn't give away to the FedGov the rights we're supposedly fighting to protect. We should fight threats to life, liberty, and property at home as well as abroad. They are not mutually exclusive.

Ducan spends too much of other peoples' money.

273 posted on 11/25/2007 1:53:27 PM PST by Puddleglum
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To: tear gas
"As far as I am concerned, the Moore-Norquist bunch can burn in hell. They don't seem to care at all about this country."

------

Sigh.

They care about capitalism. America IS capitalism and capitalism IS America.

I remember when conservatives believed in trade, low taxes, limited government and economic freedom. I'm not sure how it happned, but we've just about lost that.

Without capitalism we may as well be Sweden with better geography. Sadly, we're moving that direction. Between the environmentalists, the protectionists, union luddites, and the I-WANT-FREE-HEALTHCARE crowd, it seems like there's not much consituency left for economic liberty.

Enjoy your free health care.

You're gonna need it.

Hank

274 posted on 11/25/2007 1:55:33 PM PST by County Agent Hank Kimball (Well, really just plain Hank Kimball. Well, not "just plain" Hank Kimball, just Hank Kimball....)
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To: Puddleglum

In your dreams.


275 posted on 11/25/2007 1:57:13 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: SoCalPol
In your dreams.

Are you saying your posts put people to sleep???

276 posted on 11/25/2007 1:59:06 PM PST by Puddleglum
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
I remember when conservatives believed in trade, low taxes, limited government and economic freedom. I'm not sure how it happned, but we've just about lost that.

When did your brand of conservatives quit believing in defending our borders? We have a NATION here. It's NOT JUST a business enterprise.

These Country Club for Growth people you admire would sell their country, their mothers and their souls for an extra buck. They can and should burn in hell.

277 posted on 11/25/2007 2:00:44 PM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: Kurt Evans

This is why it is tough for a congressman to run for President. They have votes to defend.


278 posted on 11/25/2007 2:01:48 PM PST by Sunnyflorida (Peace is the aftermath of victory.)
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To: Kurt Evans
“So you think No Child Left Behind and the 2003 Medicare Drug Benefit are solid, fiscally conservative votes?” Of course not, but that doesn’t necessarily mean Congressman Hunter isn’t a solid, fiscally conservative candidate. As another poster has already noted, selective reporting can show just about any voting record in a bad light.

Duncan also recently voted to override the president's veto of the Water Resources Development Act. It was vetoed because it was obscenely bloated with pork. Duncan chose to vote against the prez and pass the bill anway. It was a "safe" vote - most Republicans also voted to override. But it was not a gutsy vote, and certainly not that of a man opposed to government largesse.

279 posted on 11/25/2007 2:03:54 PM PST by Puddleglum
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To: tear gas
"When did your brand of conservatives quit believing in defending our borders? We have a NATION here. It's NOT JUST a business enterprise."

------

ROFLOL. That's pretty funny. Why are you making stuff up? For the record, I believe in:

-Building a fence across the entire southern border.
-Authorizing border guards to shoot-to-kill all unauthorized border crossers.
-Huge fines on companies hiring illegals.
-English as our official national language.
Now it's your turn. When did you become a socialist?

Hank

280 posted on 11/25/2007 2:36:23 PM PST by County Agent Hank Kimball (Well, really just plain Hank Kimball. Well, not "just plain" Hank Kimball, just Hank Kimball....)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
Just Google "Norquist" "Stephen Moore" and "immigration."

Here are some quotes from your Country Club heroes:

"A government powerful enough to find an illegal immigrant is also powerful enough to find your bank accounts." - Grover Norquist

"Nobody really minds people sneaking across the border and working at 7-Eleven." - Grover Norquist

"Illegal immigration is part of the price we pay for being both a prosperous and a free country, and I'm not willing to sacrifice some of our freedoms to try to keep out immigrants, especially when I don't think it's going to work very well." - Stephen Moore

"Congress has to act and Congress isn't going to act if the only people it hears from are employers who don't want to be sanctioned." - Stephen Moore

And that's just from one website -

http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/2006/01/llegal-immigration-bill-weakened-by.html

Look for more if you can stomach it.

Your heroes are pigs who will sell out their country for just one extra buck. And now they're gonna be pushing Rudy.

281 posted on 11/25/2007 2:50:28 PM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: tear gas

So I answer your questions, but you won’t asnwer mine?

Are you a socialist?

Hank


282 posted on 11/25/2007 3:01:21 PM PST by County Agent Hank Kimball (Well, really just plain Hank Kimball. Well, not "just plain" Hank Kimball, just Hank Kimball....)
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To: SoCalPol

Maybe some aren’t fit to be FReepers, however it’s not because they live in small towns. Or is it your contention that FR is an urbanite forum? Note that I live in a city that’s almost exactly the same size as San Diego, and it’s a part of a much larger GMA.


283 posted on 11/25/2007 3:10:08 PM PST by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
The answer to your question is no.

I just noticed that you have a little crush on Rudy:

"Rudy’s fine with me." - County Agent Hank Kimball, November 5, 2007

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1921174/posts?page=121#121

"Oh, Rudy, it turns me on when you talk tough like that. Do it again, Rudy. You make me feel sooooooo safe. Oh, Ruuuuuuuuudy."

ROFL!

I guess that explains why you're so protective of the Country Club for Growth (and Rudy) poofs.

284 posted on 11/25/2007 3:13:34 PM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: tear gas

You’re really juvenile.

If you really look at what I’ve written, it will be very obvious to you that:

- My first choice was Tancredo
- My current choice is Thompson
- I will support WHOEVER becomes the party’s nominee in the general election. Including Rudy. Even including Romney, who I like even less.

You have a problem with this?

Hank


285 posted on 11/25/2007 3:16:44 PM PST by County Agent Hank Kimball (Well, really just plain Hank Kimball. Well, not "just plain" Hank Kimball, just Hank Kimball....)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
You have a problem with this?

What can anyone possibly say to anyone who. like you, says, "Rudy’s fine with me" with a straight face?

There's really nothing that can be usefully said. In time, your infatuation with Rudy will pass.

286 posted on 11/25/2007 3:22:59 PM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: tear gas

Why do you bother responding to me when you ignore what I say?

Did you see that I support Thompson?

How does this qualify as an “enfatuation” with Rudy? I’m no more enfatuated with him than I am Mitt Romney or John Cox OR WHATEVER REPUBLICAN GETS THE NOMINATION.

I would vote for you over Hillary. I’d vote for a junior Republican city councilman from Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

Let me type this slowly so you can understand.

I support F-r-e-d T-h-o-m-p-s-o-n.

I will vote for a-n-y R-e-p-u-b-l-i-c-a-n in the GENERAL ELECTION over Hillary.

Is that really that difficult for you to take in?

Hank


287 posted on 11/25/2007 3:31:26 PM PST by County Agent Hank Kimball (Well, really just plain Hank Kimball. Well, not "just plain" Hank Kimball, just Hank Kimball....)
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To: Melas

Having studied and kept up daily with world affairs, politics, etc. for over 45 years (including the over 40 years I worked full time.) ret. as a Legal Support Asst. with the County Attys. I find many FReepers base their comments on emotion, the area they live in, many not having background in the give and take of dealing with
a city of over 1,250,000 population and San Diego County over 3 million.
Also the largest concentration of military.

Also tens of thousands of illegals costing us mega millions a year.

I have relatives and know many others
who live in small towns and those who don’t venture out of their area see life in a very narrow way.
A very fortress mentality.


288 posted on 11/25/2007 3:39:41 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
"Correcting" people's correct spelling is simply not your strong suit, Hank:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infatuation

But, I'm not going to judge you harshly for that because I know you're in love . . .

. . . with Rudy. ROFL

Night, Hank. Turn off the lights before you leave.

289 posted on 11/25/2007 3:40:00 PM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: tear gas

Do your parents know you’re on the computer?

Hank


290 posted on 11/25/2007 3:50:51 PM PST by County Agent Hank Kimball (Well, really just plain Hank Kimball. Well, not "just plain" Hank Kimball, just Hank Kimball....)
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To: Calpernia

Good.


291 posted on 11/25/2007 4:13:09 PM PST by MSF BU
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To: infidel29

What about Thompson?
I’d look myself but it’s members only.
Interestingly they have an article on the AMT. I hope they noticed that Fred Thompson has put out a tax plan that addresses the AMT.


292 posted on 11/25/2007 4:46:17 PM PST by visualops (artlife.us)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball

Mom said to tell you that your hero Rudy is a pervert. ROFL


293 posted on 11/25/2007 5:25:54 PM PST by tear gas (Because of the 22nd Amendment, we are losing President. Bush. Can we afford to lose him now?)
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To: SoCalPol

Why are you attacking the south. I don’t like everything about the south but our country would sure be in a political mess without it. Also, why attack rural states - it is the rural areas that keep this country civilized.


294 posted on 11/25/2007 5:49:53 PM PST by dschapin
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To: SoCalPol

San Diego is a much saner city then most and seems to be quite conservative. However, big cities are typically bastions of liberalism. Portland and Los Angeles are the reason that Oregon and California are in the horrible political situation that they are today. I am not sure what you see in big cities - they certainly have been mortal enemies of the conservative cause.


295 posted on 11/25/2007 6:09:01 PM PST by dschapin
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To: visualops
I don't have my dad's log-in information handy to get on NFIB web site, and the only source of data I have from NFIB is the special "How Congress Voted" issue. It lists only the 108th and 109th congress.

If I can find a record dating back far enough to get any rating on Fred I'll let you know.

Just for the record, I'd support either a Thompson/Hunter or a Hunter/Thompson with the same amount of zeal.

296 posted on 11/25/2007 6:16:28 PM PST by infidel29 (Voting for Paul? Might as well make it Ru Paul, he's got better legs.)
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To: AuntB; Kurt Evans; Sun; All; editor-surveyor; SoCalPol; cripplecreek; The Spirit Of Allegiance; ...

Free trade is ‘globalist’? I thought Conservatives were the party of free trade while it was the democrats (cuz of the unions) who were the protectionists and isolationists. Big government is required to squash free trade.

It is not accurate to state the CFG supports ‘open borders’. They support free market economic policies with limited government. I am a regular reader of their blog (IMO it is the best blog on the internet) and hardly ever see an article on immigration, I think it is a minor issue to them, but, incidently, I think Moore’s (who hasn’t been president for the past few years) comments in this article are dead on.

The article stated the following:

“Last fall the Club for Growth worked against conservative republican candidate Robert Vasquez, an ardent illegal alien opponent by funding his opposition.”

And in turn got Bill Sali, whom this author is apparently ignorant of. IMO, Bill Sali is one of the best represenatives in Congress. FYI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Sali

“Sali was first elected to the Idaho House of Representatives in 1990. During his time there, he gained a reputation as a staunch conservative on social and economic issues, frequently drawing the ire of the more moderate Republican house leadership.[2][3]”

The CFG elects true conservatives who will stick it to the Republican leadership, who represent libertarian economic policies. Their criticism of Duncan Hunter is spot on, IMO.


297 posted on 11/25/2007 6:23:50 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: traviskicks; EternalVigilance

“Last fall the Club for Growth worked against conservative republican candidate Robert Vasquez, an ardent illegal alien opponent by funding his opposition.”

And in turn got Bill Sali, whom this author is apparently ignorant of. IMO, Bill Sali is one of the best represenatives in Congress. FYI
.



EV, any words of wisdom for this thread?


298 posted on 11/25/2007 6:35:22 PM PST by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: The Spirit Of Allegiance

Sure.

Robert Vasquez is one of the most self-centered, useless people I’ve ever seen in politics. He is no conservative, not even having a basic understanding of the fundamental principles the country was built upon.

Conversely, Bill Sali is one of our finest, most principled, Congressmen.

In this case, as in a number of others, CfG made the right call.

Another case in point: Steve King of Iowa. Without the Club, he would not have originally won that seat. And he’s about as good as it gets on most issues conservatives care about.

Is the Club perfect? Far from it. Have they invested more money than anyone else in defeating RINOs over the last decade? Yes, they have.


299 posted on 11/25/2007 6:47:47 PM PST by EternalVigilance (With "conservatives" like these, who needs liberals??)
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To: EternalVigilance

Thanks. Steve King BUMP!

But I am sure not in agreement with their assessment of Hunter.


300 posted on 11/25/2007 7:05:49 PM PST by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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