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Romney, Thompson criticize Confederate flag
CNN ^ | 11-28-2007 | CNN South Carolina Producer Peter Hamby

Posted on 11/28/2007 8:28:48 PM PST by Eddie01

COLUMBIA, South Carolina (CNN) – Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee criticized the Confederate flag, which happens to be hoisted on the Statehouse grounds in the early primary state of South Carolina.

[snip]

Both candidates are front-runners in South Carolina. Both may have to answer questions about those comments next time they hit the state.

[end]

(Excerpt) Read more at politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: cbf; confederateflag; crossofsaintandrew; debate; dixie; gopdebates; saintandrewscross
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To: Neu Pragmatist

The illusion is that the MSM actually thinks they’re needed to do it.

Good line there Neu.


51 posted on 11/28/2007 10:05:39 PM PST by jwh_Denver (Elect Hussein Obama for President, give a kid a whack at it.)
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To: jwh_Denver

Thanks . I’m just glad that i’m not the only one that can see the absurdity .

I wish the campaigns would recognize it and be a little more selective about their debate venues .


52 posted on 11/28/2007 10:28:33 PM PST by Neu Pragmatist (Unite against Rudy ! - Vote Thompson ! - It's the only way to beat Hillary !)
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To: Rick_Michael
I disagree with the assertion that Mr. Romney had many bad answers. Overall, I thought he did very well. However, he would have done much better if he'd answered this question as you suggested.

Bill

53 posted on 11/28/2007 10:48:04 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: Eddie01

I wished that Giuliani had been asked that question. It seems that the question was asked to hurt CERTAIN candidates only.


54 posted on 11/28/2007 10:52:16 PM PST by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will ENERGIZE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: WFTR

“I disagree with the assertion that Mr. Romney had many bad answers. Overall, I thought he did very well. However, he would have done much better if he’d answered this question as you suggested.”

Gay’s in the military, his apology on being pro-choice, his position on torture (which made McCain look fatherly), etc...it all seemed far too muddled. The first two actual garnered negative crowd responses, if I remeber correctly.


55 posted on 11/28/2007 11:01:17 PM PST by Rick_Michael (The Anti-Federalists failed....so will the Anti-Frederalists)
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To: Neu Pragmatist

The Dems play hard ball, the Reps T-ball. Somebody is carrying around a lot of railroad spikes in their head. I think if one the candidates would bitch shit would get changed and it would be a notch in their belt to boot.


56 posted on 11/28/2007 11:04:26 PM PST by jwh_Denver (Elect Hussein Obama for President, give a kid a whack at it.)
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To: Eddie01

Soon as Mitt answered I said to my wife “well he just lost the entire Southern vote”

To be fair though personally I think that was a can’t win question though. Thompson did fairly well, better then Mitt, but still cost him some South points.

The Confed flag wouldn’t have even been an issue if CNN or whatever MSM network it was didn’t try to make it an issue because someone had one in his garage that Dick Cheney walked nearby and trying to claim that was an endorsement of some form.


57 posted on 11/29/2007 12:02:37 AM PST by Domandred (Eagles soar, but unfortunately weasels never get sucked into jet engines)
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To: Eddie01
"But Thompson added that, 'as far as a public place is concerned, I am glad that people have made the decision not to display it as a prominent flag, symbolic of something, at a state capitol.'"

...very interesting.
58 posted on 11/29/2007 12:52:19 AM PST by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: WFTR

“The whole question seems to have the flavor of a setup by CNN to cause trouble for the Republican Party.”

And the question after that, and the one after that, and....


59 posted on 11/29/2007 12:56:12 AM PST by geopyg (Don't wish for peace, pray for Victory.)
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To: Hunterite
"To me it means cheap-labor, open-borders, free-traitors."

Yes, many of the same people supporting those anti-American trends are instigating balkanization of our Nation with such divisive issues. And most of them don't even live in the southeast. It's nothing new. Such selfish traitors have played ethnic and income groups--even the sexes off against one another before.


60 posted on 11/29/2007 1:00:21 AM PST by familyop ("G-d is on our side because he hates the Yanks." --St. Tuco, in the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly")
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To: Eddie01

I don’t like Mitt Romney, but I thought he answered the question well and succinctly, as did Fred Thompson. I told my husband at the time that he did much better than I would have thought he would have - I was impressed.
I thought they were both forceful and thoughtful, just what voters need to see and hear.
FWIW: I was raised in the South, so I do understand the issue.


61 posted on 11/29/2007 1:03:46 AM PST by mountainbunny
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To: Eddie01

Mitt’s answer was definitely fairly characterized as criticism of the flag, but Fred’s answer was not by any means.

Mitt basically seemed to agree with the premise that those who display the confederate flag are racists. Fred specifically disagreed with that premise.

Qwinn


62 posted on 11/29/2007 1:26:42 AM PST by Qwinn
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To: Neu Pragmatist

I think everyone should Rally to Duncan Hunter ,the rest are just a bunch of Pandering cowards .
Screw CNN and the rest of the left wing anti American slobs . IF Chuck Hager Likes him He is for me !


63 posted on 11/29/2007 3:54:14 AM PST by ballplayer
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To: Hunterite

Pretty stupid comment even for a n00bie plant.


64 posted on 11/29/2007 4:09:52 AM PST by Eaker (If illegal immigrants were so great for an economy; Mexico would be building a wall to keep them in)
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To: Eddie01
The question had no business in a presidential debate. It had a purpose.

*************

Exactly right. There was nothing spontaneous about the questions.

65 posted on 11/29/2007 4:11:36 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: org.whodat

I live here, Big Guy!


66 posted on 11/29/2007 4:31:56 AM PST by Coldwater Creek
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To: stockstrader
... asked to hurt CERTAIN candidates only.

That is exactly correct. ...and notice how it served two purposes. The question with the fat racist looking kid with the flag on the wall was presented *quickly* after the "Why don't blacks vote for Republicans considering we agree on just about everything" question.

The implication, Republicans are racist. and there are candidates stood, unaware they were in frame with the draped flagged and being paited racist.

You have to hand it to CNN for lies, manipulation, dishonesty and every other negative personal trait possible, they do deserve a star.

67 posted on 11/29/2007 6:20:07 AM PST by Eddie01
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To: Coldwater Creek

I went to school there, brother lives there, and I lived there many years.


68 posted on 11/29/2007 6:22:29 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: Verginius Rufus

Agree. Mitt Romney didn’t hesitate to bow to the false god of political correctness. It reminded me that deep down he really is liberal.


69 posted on 11/29/2007 8:58:15 AM PST by MBB1984
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To: Constantine XIII

There’s quite a few Confederate flags flying in East Tennessee now, however.


70 posted on 11/29/2007 9:00:37 AM PST by MBB1984
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To: RatsDawg

“How did Fred criticize the American Flag?

His answer was rational and spot on.”

I agree! Fred did NOT criticize the Confederate flag!


71 posted on 11/29/2007 9:03:02 AM PST by seekthetruth
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To: BillyBoy; All
well, since i don't usually watch the BOOB TUBE (for anything other than movies on DVD/VHS) & i automatically DISTRUST the "Clinton News Network, all CLINTON all the time", i cannot comment on what "cnn" reported.

i would say that FRED/MIKE needs to get out in front of this and SAY that our (sacred/blood-spattered) battleflag is NOT and NEVER has been a flag of slavery any more than the US flag has been. the "people who will be offended" would NOT vote for him and/or the GOP under ANY circumstance.

face it folks, lose dixie & lose the '08 election.(failing to support the CSA flag in the south is a PRESCRIPTION for LOSING dixie,.)

otoh, "mitt from taxatuecetts" had enough of a problem with being a "trendy lefty", an OUTsider & a "pointy-head" BEFORE the question. i'd say that he is now DONE. stick a fork in him (at least in dixie) & put him on the plate.

free dixie,sw

72 posted on 11/29/2007 9:12:28 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: TheLion; All
fwiw, since the DIMocRATS would NOT debate on FOX, the GOP showed everyone (that cared) that they were NOT afraid to debate on "ENEMY TURF".

free dixie,sw

73 posted on 11/29/2007 9:16:10 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie

Exactly.


74 posted on 11/29/2007 9:16:57 AM PST by Badeye (Free Willie!)
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To: All
CNN pulled it down!

Link broken:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/28/romney-thompson-criticize-confederate-flag/

Also, Newsbusters picked it up here today:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2007/11/29/youtube-boobtubery-cnn-spins-thompsons-confederate-flag-stance

75 posted on 11/29/2007 9:20:21 AM PST by Eddie01
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To: Schwaeky

He openly mocks people that support State’s rights through Federalism, what else to you need to know about the Huckster. He wants the Federal Government controling things not within their purview. I don’t think he’s read the thing...

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


76 posted on 11/29/2007 9:26:41 AM PST by Uriah_lost ("I don't apologize for the United States of America," -Fred D Thompson)
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To: seekthetruth; All
what Fred SHOULD have said follows:

Our CSA battleflag is sacred to MANY southerners, as the blood-spattered banner of their ancestors.

it is NOT now, NOR has it EVER been 'the flag of slavery', any more than the flag of the USA has been. every person/town/state has the RIGHT to decide whether or not to display that flag publicly. doing that is called: LIBERTY!

as i've said before, those who would be "offended" by that comment,will NOT vote for Fred, Mike or, more likely, ANY Republican.

further, LOSE DIXIE & LOSE IN '08.

free dixie,sw

77 posted on 11/29/2007 9:32:24 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: al_bore_jr

Idon’t know. Ask the damyankees why they keep bringing it up.


78 posted on 11/29/2007 9:37:02 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (Tolerating intolerance is not a "value," it's self-destructive stupidity.)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
Every group - Southerners included - should get to determine FOR THEMSELVES what symbols they choose to honor as part of their heritage. If some feel that confederate flag does that for them, they’re perfectly entitled to fly that flag.

You dream well, my Friend, but it will never happen, I'm afraid.

79 posted on 11/29/2007 9:45:20 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (Tolerating intolerance is not a "value," it's self-destructive stupidity.)
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To: Old Sarge
Fred's Right!
80 posted on 11/29/2007 9:46:59 AM PST by cold666pack ("our people have shed more blood for other people's liberty than any other" Fred Thompson)
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To: eyedigress

May I ask where that photo of the flag is from?

It appears to be the Cherokee Mounted Rifles flag.


81 posted on 11/29/2007 9:47:14 AM PST by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
i don't think you'll find your position "controversial" among CONSERVATIVES, but then the main-SLIME media is predominantly DIMocRAT & LEFTIST.

the main-SLIME media will NOT let us have LIBERTY on such issues, as freedom does NOT "sell soap powder"!

free dixie,sw

82 posted on 11/29/2007 9:50:20 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Rick_Michael
Yeah, it's called FEDERALISM, let the state fight over it, Oh yeah, they did already. What a waste of time, kinda like the space program to Mars. Who cares?
83 posted on 11/29/2007 9:53:22 AM PST by cold666pack ("our people have shed more blood for other people's liberty than any other" Fred Thompson)
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To: Eddie01

This topic has no place in a presidential debate.


84 posted on 11/29/2007 9:57:57 AM PST by Dante3
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To: All

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/29/romney-thompson-criticize-confederate-flag/

Back up under new link.


85 posted on 11/29/2007 10:43:08 AM PST by Eddie01
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball

Hank, I did not say you cant hoist a confederate flag or the Pakistani flag. You can do as you wish at your home. But why
should any such flags be displayed PROMINENTLY at a PUBLIC facility?


86 posted on 11/29/2007 11:18:05 AM PST by al_bore_jr
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To: Eddie01

How is this this is important in a presidential election?


87 posted on 11/29/2007 11:19:49 AM PST by gracesdad
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To: AuntB

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/Confederate_Flag.htm


88 posted on 11/29/2007 12:13:30 PM PST by eyedigress
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To: eyedigress

Thanks for the link.

The flag the Southern Cherokee fought under is similar to the photo you posted, except the Cherokee had “Cherokee Braves’ on theirs. The 5 stars in the center signified the 5 civilized tribes.

http://www.thepeoplespaths.net/Cherokee/CherokeeBravesBattleFlag.htm


89 posted on 11/29/2007 12:19:07 PM PST by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: seekthetruth

Ha, I just realized I said American Flag and not Confederate Flag.

It was a late night last night.


90 posted on 11/29/2007 4:55:57 PM PST by RatsDawg (Hsu out the Democrats in 2008!, Go Hsu-less vote GOP)
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To: al_bore_jr
"Hank, I did not say you cant hoist a confederate flag or the Pakistani flag. You can do as you wish at your home. But why should any such flags be displayed PROMINENTLY at a PUBLIC facility?"

------

That isn't for you or I to answer, is it? I mean, if, say the citizens of Alabama want to fly that over their statehouse, that should be their choice, right?

Hank

91 posted on 11/29/2007 5:18:35 PM PST by County Agent Hank Kimball (Well, really just plain Hank Kimball. Well, not "just plain" Hank Kimball, just Hank Kimball....)
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To: Eddie01

The flag should be able to fly! Rap music is not illegal however, this type of music is more offensive than a flag and not one person is trying to ban rap music. Im sick and tired of the usa trying to legislate peoples feelings. So what if people dont like the flag. We dont live in communist russia we live in america. Its a flag get over it!


92 posted on 11/30/2007 6:49:06 AM PST by cpt757 (We can not legislate peoples feelings)
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To: al_bore_jr; All
because the CSA soldiers, sailors & marines served, bled & died for their STATE, for the southland & for LIBERTY. that's why.

what South Carolinians choose to do (or NOT do) in SC is no one else's business but that of SC.

as for me & my house we choose to exercise our FREEDOM.

free dixie,sw

93 posted on 11/30/2007 9:12:35 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: gracesdad; All
VERY IMPORTANT.

it's about: can the federal government "GO AWAY & leave us ALONE" or not.

what the people/state government of SC does or does not do is for the PEOPLE of SC to decide. (further, THAT is PRECISELY what the candidates SHOULD have said.)

free dixie,sw

94 posted on 11/30/2007 9:15:30 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie

Has the federal government tried to ban the flag in S.C.? I know about the NAACP and the state legislature vote, but I wasn’t aware that the federal government had tried to ban it.


95 posted on 11/30/2007 9:25:06 AM PST by gracesdad
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To: AuntB; All
HI, AuntB!

fwiw, there are actually TWO southern Cherokee Battleflags.

the one you posted the picture of

and

"a solid red banner with superimposed upon it,the image of the Big Dipper constellation, with seven-pointed stars."

there is also a "Peace Flag", which is a solid white banner with 7 red (seven pointed) stars in the shape of the Big Dipper. (the Peace Flag has not & will not be flown again, until dixie & the Cherokee Nation is FREE.)

free dixie,sw

96 posted on 11/30/2007 9:30:53 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: gracesdad; All
MANY state government officials have been threatened "with government actions" against the state of SC & against the agencies thereof, by "agents of the federal government". it's called "attempted coercion by bureaucrat"

fwiw, hardly ANYBODY in SC cares what the "naaLcp" does or doesn't do. the "leadership" of that organization has been throughly exposed as INEFFECTIVE, RACIST & DISHONEST, despite the "best efforts of "the SOCIALIST state" & "the news-LESS courier".

free dixie,sw

97 posted on 11/30/2007 9:37:16 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie

Yep.

One of the flags was found on the battle field of Wilson’s Creek in Missouri (Aug, 1861, IIRC) and is at a local museum. That’s on my to see list when I get back that way again. BTW, I’ve gotten a photo of a younger Stand Watie. The usual ones are seen are of him near the end of his life.

Here’s a snip about Wilson’s Creek from the book I’m working on.

[snip]Union forces suffered their two most devastating early defeats at the Battle of Bull Run near Manassas, Virginia and Wilson Creek within days of each other. Called The Battle of Oak Hills by the Confederates, Brigadier General Ben McCulloch, commander of the Southern army at Wilson’s Creek was a leader in the Texas Rangers and fought in the Battle of San Jacinto. Having been put in command of the Indian Territory in May of 1861, he obtained the pledge of the Cherokees to fight for the Confederacy. McCulloch would be seen in battle wearing his preferred suit of black velvet instead of a military uniform.

Brigadier General Nathaniel Lyon, age forty-three ,a veteran of the Seminole and Mexican Wars, was named commander of the Federal forces at Wilson’s Creek. Lyon was a Unionist and a strong supporter of Lincoln and the Republican Party.

By the end of July, when troops under General McCulloch rendezvoused , the total Confederate force in the area exceeded twelve thousand men. Lyon, hoping to surprise the Confederates, marched from Springfield on August First.

Despite being vastly outnumbered, Lyon decided to attack the Confederate encampment in a surprise assault. Lyon ordered 1,200 men to swing wide to the south, flanking the Confederates, while the main body of troops attacked from the north. McCulloch could have succeeded in a massive advance against Lyon but for the lack of ammunition held by the confederates that day. McCulloch relayed, “We have an average of only twenty-five rounds of ammunition to the man and no more to be had short of Fort Smith and Baton Rouge.”

McCulloch was not impressed with the Missouri troops under General Price’s command and noted they were “ undisciplined, commanded mostly by incompetent and inexperienced politicians, and possessed only a poor mix of weapons and equipment.” If the battle were to be won, the burden of victory would be on the Texans and Cherokees.

Farm families of Gibson and Short who lived near the impending battle, took shelter in the root cellars of their homes. Most of the Southern cavalry camped on Sharps property while his home and land suffered damage during the battle. The E.B. Short family was surprised during breakfast when the battle began as General Lyon staged his wagons near the Short’s springhouse.

At dawn, on the morning of the Tenth of August, Lyon’s attack caught the Southerners off guard, driving them back and overrunning several Confederate camps allowing them to occupy a ridge that became known as “Bloody Hill.” A Rebel Arkansas Battery was able to halt the advance and give the infantry time to form a battle line on the opposite slope as Waties volunteers withheld the charge to maintain a position in battle until reinforcements arrived.

William Penn Adair was there, along with Cornelius Boudinot, both having been described with their long black hair blowing in the charge wind of battle. Always beside Watie was Jim Bell and other loyal Southern Rights Party adherents like John Benge, killed at Wilson’s Creek, the first Cherokee of the Civil War to lose his life . Benge was the ancestral namesake of another Cherokee wagon master who led one of the more successful goups on the Trail of Tears. A least a dozen of the Benge family fought throughout the war for the Cherokee volunteers.

Fighting was often hand to hand and with constant charges and countercharges by units on each side in a battle that lasted more than five hours. Three hours into the melee, General Lyon had already been twice wounded, then as he led a countercharge was fatally wounded on Bloody Hill becoming the first Union general to die in battle during the Civil War. A Major assumed command of the Federals but their ammunition was nearly used and a hasty with drawl to Springfield was soon ordered.

The Union forces being vastly outnumbered, counted deaths at two hundred fifty-eight and casualties of twenty-four percent of their troops after the battle. They had not counted on the numbers the Confederates produced including Watie’s unit. Confederates counted killed at two hundred seventy-nine; a twelve percent casualty rate. Because of this victory they were able to control Missouri the first year of the war . Wilson’s Creek proved to be one of the most brutal battles either army would face. Particularly disconcerting to Union troops was the war cry the Cherokee soldiers employed combined with the battle cry of the Rebels.

Local farmer C.B. Manley allowed Missouri and Arkansas troops to camp on his land and offered the family cemetery as a temporary resting place for the dead confederates. It must have been an amazing logistical feat to accomplish the return of bodies of the fallen soldiers to their homes, often many miles away, after such battles. Surprisingly that was the norm throughout the war.

A Cherokee Mounted Volunteers Flag was found left on the battlefield by a local farmer and is on display in a local museum today. Watie and his troops did not carry the Confederate Flag, but the banner of the ‘Cherokee Braves’, with a circle of five red stars signifying the five civilized tribes. They fought for the Cherokee Nation’s independence and the survival of their people.

Days after the battle, General Fremont of Union forces, by then returned to base at St. Louis, relayed his impression of the battle in a dispatch to Washington:

“General Lyon, in three columns....attacked the enemy at 6:30 o’clock on the morning of the 10th, 9 miles southeast of Springfield. Engagement severe. Our lose about 800 killed and wounded. General Lyon killed in charge at head of his column. Our force 8,000, including 2,000 Home Guards. Muster roll reported taken from the enemy 23,000, including regiments from Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi, with Texan Rangers and Cherokee half-breeds. This statement corroborated by prisoners. Their loss reported heavy, including Generals McCulloch and Price..... Their tents and wagons destroyed in the action...... need aid of some organized force to repel the enemy, reported advancing on other points in considerable strength.”

There are at least a few inconsistencies with other historical records in Fremont’s report. The figure of twenty-three thousand confederate troops is wildly exaggerated. It may have seemed like that many fresh rebels ready for war to Yankee soldiers who were greatly outnumbered. The Confederacy, like the Union, had not recruited near the numbers that they later would and they did not present with these high numbers in future conflicts. His words do convey the concern of “ considerable strength” the Rebels now earned from the Union. Lincoln and the Federal leaders had looked at this ‘troublesome little rebellion’ as something that their many volunteers would squelch within ninety days. They must have all known at this point there would be no short or simple struggle.

Brigadier General Benjamin McCulloch, in fact, lived to fight future battles alongside the Cherokee Braves and finally at the Battle of Pea Ridge the following March in Arkansas.


98 posted on 11/30/2007 9:45:22 AM PST by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: AuntB
THANKS, dear. NICE post.

free dixie HUGS,sw

99 posted on 11/30/2007 9:47:29 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Eddie01

CNN obvioulsy had this article written in ADVANCE of the debate.

The CNN fraud scandal continues.


100 posted on 11/30/2007 9:51:31 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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