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Boy Scouts Lose Philadelphia Lease in Gay-Rights Fight
New York Times ^ | December 6, 2007 | Ia Urbina

Posted on 12/06/2007 11:04:30 AM PST by yorkie

For three years the Philadelphia council of the Boy Scouts of America held its ground. It resisted the city’s request to change its discriminatory policy toward gay people despite threats that if it did not do so, the city would evict the group from a municipal building where the Scouts have resided practically rent free since 1928.

Hailed as the birthplace of the Boy Scouts, the Beaux Arts building is the seat of the seventh-largest chapter of the organization and the first of the more than 300 council service centers built by the Scouts around the country over the past century.

But over the years the fight between the city and the Scouts was about more than this grandiose structure in Center City.

Municipal officials said the clash stemmed from a duty to defend civil rights and an obligation to abide by a local law that bars taxpayer support for any group that discriminates. Boy Scout officials said it was about preserving their culture, protecting the right of private organizations to remain exclusive and defending traditions like requiring members to swear an oath of duty to God and prohibiting membership by anyone who is openly homosexual.

This week the Boy Scouts made their last stand and lost.

“At the end of the day, you can not be in a city-owned facility being subsidized by the taxpayers and not have language in your lease that talks about nondiscrimination,” said City Councilman Darrell L. Clarke, who represents the district where the building is located. “Negotiations are over.”

Mr. Clarke said talks ended this week when the deadline passed for the local chapter to change its policy; on June 1 the group will be evicted.

“Since we were founded, we believe that open homosexuality would be inconsistent with the values..

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: activistcourts; antichristian; bluezone; boyscouts; bsa; churchandstate; citycouncil; cityofbrotherlylove; civilrights; cradleofliberty; discrimination; gaystapotactics; homosexualagenda; lavendermafia
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To: weegee

Keep a watch out for the classification of Christians/Conservatives as “terrorists” as well.

That was the point of adding the “Hate Crimes” language to the Homeland Security bill.

The goal: Anyone that states that homosexuality is anything less than something to be celebrated has committed a terroristic hate crime.


51 posted on 12/06/2007 11:40:50 AM PST by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: yorkie
Contrary to the headline, the Boy Scouts cannot lose unless they change their principles to embrace sexual perversion.

May the city rot in Hell, oh it already is, wonder why. Gay groups are ok, the Boy Scouts are run out of town. That is evil.

FYI although I am not aware of any strong gay rights movement in Philadelphia, it must be there under the surface. The last time Santorum ran, gay groups forced the owner of a health club to divest himself of his own privately owned company. His crime? He had contributed to the Santorum campaign, whichg was billed as support for Nazism.

52 posted on 12/06/2007 11:42:33 AM PST by Williams
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To: yorkie
This week the Boy Scouts made their last stand and lost.

No. Here's their next move: Stop all scout activities in the Cradle of Liberty Council.

That's 12 Districts, 1,000 units and 69,000 youth- "One of the largest Councils in the nation."

Let the politicians and queers be warned: The Scouts don't tolerate their lifestyles or activities!

A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent. No where in the Scout Law does it say that we fold to the dictates of sin or sinners.

53 posted on 12/06/2007 11:43:46 AM PST by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good.)
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To: weegee
The Scouts built the million dollar building.

The Scouts ought to sue for value it would take to construct the building...

54 posted on 12/06/2007 11:44:02 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: yorkie

Hey Boy Scouts - - run, don’t walk, away from that sick toilet known as Philadelphia.
Get away as fast as you can.


55 posted on 12/06/2007 11:44:36 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: Myrddin

I am surprised that the Scouts did not write the contact in such a way to avoid this duplicity.


57 posted on 12/06/2007 11:46:19 AM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: squaddawg1983

Exactly!


58 posted on 12/06/2007 11:46:42 AM PST by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good.)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
If you're taking the government's money, you follow their rules.

You don't get it. The Boy Scouts built the building they were using in exchange for perpetual $1 rent. So, if the city is going to renege on that agreement, they should be forced to compensate the Boy Scouts for the value of the building.

59 posted on 12/06/2007 11:50:05 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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Comment #60 Removed by Moderator

To: yorkie

So let’s see now, the city supposedly has an ordinance that prevents discrimination, but of course it’s okay to discriminate AGAINST anyone who doesn’t agree with them...


61 posted on 12/06/2007 11:53:00 AM PST by woodb01 (ANTI-DNC Web Portal at ---> http://www.noDNC.com)
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To: padre35
The BSA will have to realize that their principles are not welcomed in a Philly and make arrangements for different housing

As soon as it compensated for the value of the building...

62 posted on 12/06/2007 11:53:05 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: yorkie

I’m no lawyer, but it seems to me if they built the building, and maintained it, then they are due money from the city. I’m sure there are plenty of good lawyers who would put the city through hell.


63 posted on 12/06/2007 11:53:23 AM PST by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: Pawtucket Patriot

Maybe you should go look at some statistics.....


64 posted on 12/06/2007 11:55:16 AM PST by goodnesswins (Being Challenged Builds Character! Being Coddled Destroys Character!)
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To: MrB

Don’t forget that opposing abortion can probably also get you on a “watch list”.


65 posted on 12/06/2007 12:00:52 PM PST by weegee (If Bill Clinton can sit in on Hillary's Cabinet Meetings then GWBush should ask to get to sit in too)
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To: I still care
According to the article, the BSA may have $5M coming to them. Hopefully it will be even more.

"On May 31, the City Council voted 16-to-1 to authorize ending the lease, though Mr. Clarke and other Council members continued trying to negotiate a settlement. Those efforts ended this week, Mr. Clarke said, adding that he had shifted his energy toward trying to see if there was a way the city could reimburse the group for improvements it had made to the property over the years. Boy Scout officials said they do not have a cost estimate for the improvements, but Mr. Jubelirer said it would exceed $5 million."

66 posted on 12/06/2007 12:02:02 PM PST by yorkie
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To: Pawtucket Patriot

Any homosexual act makes one an acting homosexual; therefore, if a man molests a boy then it is an act of homosexuality.


67 posted on 12/06/2007 12:02:16 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: I still care

In some places if you reside there for decades and make significant improvements to the property, it is yours.

Now granted there was a lease agreement for the land but the building is still an “improvement” and has been maintained.


68 posted on 12/06/2007 12:03:47 PM PST by weegee (If Bill Clinton can sit in on Hillary's Cabinet Meetings then GWBush should ask to get to sit in too)
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To: MrB

It’s called “Tolerance.”


69 posted on 12/06/2007 12:04:41 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: yorkie

Seems like a Catch-22. The Scouts own the building but the city owns the property it’s built on. Since the Scouts can’t take the building it would seem that they should be owed some compensation for it.


70 posted on 12/06/2007 12:07:09 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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Comment #71 Removed by Moderator

To: yorkie

Why would the City of Phily want to throw gay people in with boy scouts?.....sounds like someones personal agenda.
On a parallel, I assume they would see nothing wrong with placing a serial rapist in a girls dormitory....So what if some boy scouts get raped it’s all for the cause of P.C.!


72 posted on 12/06/2007 12:10:28 PM PST by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: Publius6961
Not to put too fine a point on it, but there is a monumental difference between "taking" the government's money and simply not paying "tribute" to it.

But there's not a monumental difference between "taking the government's money" and "getting something valuable from them for next to free."

73 posted on 12/06/2007 12:25:00 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: yorkie
...The Boy Scouts erected the ornate building and since 1928 have leased the land from the city for a token sum of $1 a year. City officials said the market value for renting the building was about $200,000 a year, and they invited the Boy Scouts to remain as full-paying tenants. ...

...“With an epidemic of gun violence taking the lives of children almost daily in this city, it’s ironic that this administration chose to destroy programming that services thousands of children in the city,” Mr. Jubelirer said. He added that the organization serves more than 69,000 young people, mostly from the inner city, and that its programming focuses on mentoring and after-school programs instead of camping trips....

So, let me get this straight. The city council wants $200,000 and the BSA can "discriminate" away. The organization serves over 60,000 people in Philadelphia and surrounding areas. Seems like a huge loss in social services for Philadelphia for a mere $3.33 per person. I'd call the local press, have some of the local kids give testimonials about what the organization means to them. Shame the council publicly for hurting the inner-city children.
74 posted on 12/06/2007 12:34:26 PM PST by Girlene
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To: yorkie

There was a story of a couple in Boulder, Colorado who lost their property to a neighbor because the neighbor had used it for many years and grew emotionally attached to the property. Why can’t the Boy Scouts’ attorneys take the same approach?


75 posted on 12/06/2007 12:37:00 PM PST by Nephi ( $100m ante is a symptom of the old media... the Ron Paul Revolution is the new media's choice.)
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To: trumandogz
Just pay fair market value and be done with it.

Just give in, quit, surrender, capitulate and be done with it.

76 posted on 12/06/2007 12:40:14 PM PST by Nephi ( $100m ante is a symptom of the old media... the Ron Paul Revolution is the new media's choice.)
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To: yorkie

This is the liberals’ idea of “tolerance.”


77 posted on 12/06/2007 12:46:07 PM PST by Elpasser
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To: Old Professer
Any homosexual act makes one an acting homosexual; therefore, if a man molests a boy then it is an act of homosexuality....

...even if the man is married. In the past, statistics on molestations counted men who were married and abused boys as heterosexuals.

78 posted on 12/06/2007 12:46:08 PM PST by Nephi ( $100m ante is a symptom of the old media... the Ron Paul Revolution is the new media's choice.)
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To: Nephi

Looks to be a good investment for the Boy Scouts.

Pay market value for the land minus the value of the improvement that the Boy Scouts did and then sell the property in ten years for a large profit.

At that point the Boy Scouts can take there profit and move out of Philly and into the suburbs.


79 posted on 12/06/2007 12:46:51 PM PST by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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To: Nephi
I believe you are talking about this case:

Land Grab - Adverse Possession

You may be on to something there, Nephi.

80 posted on 12/06/2007 12:47:34 PM PST by yorkie
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To: sauropod
There's an even bigger lie in the story: "... a municipal building where the Scouts have resided practically rent free since 1928."

As others have pointed out, the building belongs to the Scouts, who built it in 1928 at their own expense. Despite the dollar-a-year ground rent, the BSA has maintained the Beaux Arts (which, incidentally, is a legitimate architectural-historical landmark) for the last 80 years. And it was the Scouts, not the city, who undertook and paid for its $2.7 million renovation in the late '90s.

The conduct of the Philly city council, and of its proudly out-of-the-closet ringleader, is beneath despicable.

81 posted on 12/06/2007 12:52:41 PM PST by Tenniel2 (Shelob delenda est!)
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To: yorkie; Nephi
Adverse possession - brilliant idea, but I don't think it applies to public/government land.

Adverse Possession "Public Lands - Government-owned land may be exempt from adverse possession."
82 posted on 12/06/2007 12:53:01 PM PST by Girlene
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To: weegee
There is something Freepers can do to help the Boy Scouts, if you own suitable facilities. You can let the Scouts meet there. My husband and I own a ranch that was once a Boy Scout Camp. We let Boy Scouts camp there in exchange for doing chores for us. They provide us with a certificate of insurance listing us as an additional named insured, in case anyone gets hurt.

They have patched roads for us, cleaned out the pond, cut brush for a short while however they do a lot of work with many hands. They spend the rest of the day hiking or fishing or doing whatever they do. There are boy scout Camps in our area, but they charge quite a bit of money. Our Scouts bring their own food and tents and porta potty facilities, and work for an hour or so, and otherwise it is free. This works great for them, and for us, and we have done it for years.

83 posted on 12/06/2007 12:55:02 PM PST by passionfruit (When illegals become legal, even they won't do work American's won't do)
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To: Publius6961

“suggest dismantling the building and selling off bricks”

I’ll buy one.


84 posted on 12/06/2007 1:01:26 PM PST by live+let_live
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To: passionfruit

As an active Scouter in the midwest, I thank you for all you do to support the Scouts in your area. There are many people out there like you that just “do what needs to be done”...

Thank you....


85 posted on 12/06/2007 1:03:47 PM PST by UPcrawfish
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To: UPcrawfish

Thanks! This form of help is painless, and as long as we live, our Scouts will never be given the boot!


86 posted on 12/06/2007 1:07:07 PM PST by passionfruit (When illegals become legal, even they won't do work American's won't do)
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To: yorkie

Why is their stand referred to as a disciminatory policy instead of what it is...a moral policy.


87 posted on 12/06/2007 1:08:34 PM PST by Sacajaweau ("The Cracker" will be renamed "The Crapper")
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To: yorkie
“At the end of the day, you can not be in a city-owned facility being subsidized by the taxpayers and not have language in your lease that talks about nondiscrimination,” said City Councilman Darrell L. Clarke, who represents the district where the building is located. “Negotiations are over.”

City Councilman Darrell L. Clarke clearly has a disordered mind. And to think that Philadelphia was once a great city. It is this kind of warped and twisted thinking that will destroy this country.

Clarke and his ilk understand NOT risk or the pathology of STDs. If they understood they would know that they have a responsibility to protect the health and safety of our young men. Under the guise of "civil rights" these morons want to put our children at risk to unspeakable diseases and psychological disorders. Epidemiologists estimate that one out of two men who have sex with men will eventually become HIV positive. Men who begin to engage in sex with men at an earlier age are more likely to become HIV positive and to become HIV positive earlier. (Hessol, N., Lifson, A., O'Malley, P., Doll, L., Jaffe, H., Rutherford, G. (1989) Prevalence, incidence and progression of human immunodeficiency virus infection in homosexual and bisexual men in hepatitis B vaccine trials, 1978 - 1988. American Journal of Epidemiology. 130, 6: 1167 - 1175) (Hoover, D., Munoz, A., Carey, V., Chmiel, J., Taylor, J., Margolick, J., Kingsley, L., Vermund, S. (1991) Estimating the 1978 - 1990 and future spread of human Immunodeficiency virus type 1 in subgroups of homosexual men. American Journal of Epidemiology 134, 10: 1190 - 1205) (Morris, M., Dean, L. (1994) Effects of sexual behavior change on long-term human immunodeficiency virus prevalence among homosexual men. American Journal of Epidemiology. 140, 3: 217 - 32) The bacteria contacted during anal intercourse include Shigella, Entamoeba, Giardia (causes chronic diarrhea), and the bacteria that cause hepatitis A (severe liver damage which can kill), and hepatitis B. Of course, the mostly deadly of all, HIV, is more easily transmitted through anal sex. ("When Kids don’t Have a Straight Answer" [Departments: Health and Fitness]. NEAToday on-line.) A study revealed a dramatic increase in anal cancer among homosexual men. This increase is traced to the Human Papillomavirus (HPV), a sexually-transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer in women and is found in almost all HIV-positive homosexual men. (Report of study at annual meeting of American Society of Colon and Rectal Surgeons, June 26, 2002.)

It is a sad state of affairs when idiots prevail. I would hope that the people of the city of Philadelphia would start home schooling so eventually the city can again be managed by sane, responsible officials.

88 posted on 12/06/2007 1:08:38 PM PST by olezip
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To: Old Professer
Any homosexual act makes one an acting homosexual; therefore, if a man molests a boy then it is an act of homosexuality.

"You either s--k d--k or you do not s--k d--k, there is no in between."

89 posted on 12/06/2007 1:15:57 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Pawtucket Patriot

In re: connecting homosexuality with pederasty (more appropriate to boy scouts, who have a minimum age of ten and an average age of 14), the fact is, per capita, more homosexuals molest than heteros.

That said, I would not have my daughter in a girl scout organization that had adult males leading the sleepovers. I don’t like heterosexual pederasty, either.

To put homosexual adult men in charge and close quarters with a bunch of teenage boys in totally irresponsible. The Boy Scout policy is the correct one.


90 posted on 12/06/2007 1:16:40 PM PST by Marie2 (I used to be disgusted. . .now I try to be amused.)
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To: Tenniel2
The conduct of the Philly city council, and of its proudly out-of-the-closet ringleader, is beneath despicable.

So I have heard.

91 posted on 12/06/2007 1:19:36 PM PST by sauropod (Welcome to O'Malleyland. What's in your wallet?)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

OK bubba, what gubmint $ do the Boy Scouts get?

Filthadelphia was crap before and is more so now.

The Scouts will be around long after the PC queer rights butt-heads have been long gone.

That creakin ain’t the closet door opening is it?


92 posted on 12/06/2007 1:33:13 PM PST by dusttoyou (FredHead from the git go)
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To: Girlene

“may” is better than “shall” in this case.


93 posted on 12/06/2007 1:45:06 PM PST by Nephi ( $100m ante is a symptom of the old media... the Ron Paul Revolution is the new media's choice.)
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To: yorkie

Yep, that’s the one. It seems the Boy Scouts could use this legal approach to buttress the agreement made in 1928 that the queer boosters are trying to renege on.


94 posted on 12/06/2007 1:54:46 PM PST by Nephi ( $100m ante is a symptom of the old media... the Ron Paul Revolution is the new media's choice.)
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To: dusttoyou
OK bubba, what gubmint $ do the Boy Scouts get?

They get $199,999 worth of rent.

If it was another private organization, say the ACLU, or NAMBLA, that was getting free rent from the government, are you honestly saying that you'd be fine with it? Wouldn't you say that they're getting something valuable from the government, and that that a cash value could be applied to it? Or are you only okay with goverment handouts to private organizations that you agree with?

That creakin ain’t the closet door opening is it?

Ooh, you've caught me. Better call my wife of 18 years and let her know.

Of course, the "protesteth too much" thing might be applicable here, too. Are you sure you're not desperately trying to hide something?

95 posted on 12/06/2007 1:57:51 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: Nephi
There was a story of a couple in Boulder, Colorado who lost their property to a neighbor because the neighbor had used it for many years and grew emotionally attached to the property. Why can’t the Boy Scouts’ attorneys take the same approach?

If that worked, every longtime renter in America could take their landlord's property. The fact that the Scouts payed the dollar a year meant that they accepted that the city was the property's owner.

96 posted on 12/06/2007 2:00:36 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

It did work - click on the link in Yorkie’s post #80.


97 posted on 12/06/2007 2:17:06 PM PST by Nephi ( $100m ante is a symptom of the old media... the Ron Paul Revolution is the new media's choice.)
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To: Nephi
I know about the Boulder case and it's a completely different deal. If the Scouts had been occupying the property without paying anything, and the city never said anything about it, they might have a case under adverse possession, but the fact that they were paying a token rent makes such a claim impossible.

Not to mention the fact that everyone seems pretty much in agreement that the Boulder case was a piece of absolute scumbaggery.

98 posted on 12/06/2007 2:22:12 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: BallyBill

Philadelphia was already a sorry place, and it is determined to get worse any way that it can. God don’t like ugly, and Philadephia is an ugly place.


99 posted on 12/06/2007 2:28:15 PM PST by mathurine
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To: weegee

Funny thing about child molestation - it’s perpetrated mostly by gay people.


100 posted on 12/06/2007 2:34:01 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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