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Memories of Pearl Harbor still fresh, 66 years later
New Hampshire Union Leader ^ | December 7, 2007 | John Clayton

Posted on 12/06/2007 10:15:42 PM PST by ConservativeStatement

THE WORN AND TATTERED copy of the Honolulu Star Bulletin was there on the dining room table.

The paper was from Dec. 7, 1941.

In years past, on this date, copies of that same newspaper were set out in dens and kitchens and living rooms all over America, as those who survived the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor reflected back upon the horror of that day.

It happens less often these days.

(Excerpt) Read more at unionleader.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: december7; godsgravesglyphs; milhist; pearlharbor; wwii

1 posted on 12/06/2007 10:15:43 PM PST by ConservativeStatement
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten; 359Henrie; 6323cd; 75thOVI; Adrastus; A message; abb; ACelt; AZamericonnie; ..
To all: please ping me to threads that are relevant to the MilHist list (and/or) please add the keyword "MilHist" to the appropriate thread. Thanks in advance.

Please FREEPMAIL indcons if you want on or off the "Military History (MilHist)" ping list.

2 posted on 12/06/2007 10:24:51 PM PST by indcons
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

If we had the same gang in power back then that we have now, we would of lost that war. Even the Democrat in that day was better than we have now.


3 posted on 12/06/2007 11:23:07 PM PST by Tut
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To: indcons; blam; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks indcons. Pearl Harbor day, all. FDR's opening sentence in his address to Congress the next day *may* be the most memorable one of the 20th century, IMHO. Audio.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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4 posted on 12/06/2007 11:49:05 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, December 5, 2007 _________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; KlueLass; ...
More FDR, worth remembering and taking to heart today:
"No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory. I believe I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost but will make very certain that this form of treachery shall never endanger us again." *

5 posted on 12/06/2007 11:58:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, December 5, 2007 _________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
"I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost but will make very certain that this form of treachery shall never endanger us again."

That lasted three months short of 60 years.

6 posted on 12/07/2007 12:14:36 AM PST by mathluv
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To: SunkenCiv

Maybe Pearl Harbor is still a fresh memory to Mr. Clayton, but judging from the way today’s Democrats act, even memories of 9/11 aren’t fresh to them.


7 posted on 12/07/2007 2:30:41 AM PST by Berosus ("The candidates that can't face Fox News can't face Al Qaeda."--Roger Ailes)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan; SunkenCiv
I was hoping someone started a Pearl Harbor thread so I could vent my spleen on it.

Up early, turned on the History Channel to see if anybody besides me gave a chit about Pearl Harbor Day. Sure enough, there was the familiar sight of the Arizona with crowds of tourists, etc.

But as I listened, it hit me (1st cup of coffee) that they weren't talking about the loss of the men and women who died that day, they weren't talking about the perfidious Nips plunging the United States into almost five years of bloody combat around the world, no, no and no.

They had a much more important subject to discuss: the looming ecological disaster the Arizona will cause as it gradually degrades in place!

I'm lucky I still have a TV! And whatever History Channel exec who ran that chit is sooo lucky they weren't within arms reach... I'll be seeing red for days over this.

Maybe I'm just a grumpy old fart. :O(

8 posted on 12/07/2007 3:37:56 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: metesky
I had the same TV experience around 40 years ago when I threw a nearly full bottle of Hamms Beer at ours, missed, and put the neatest hole in the sheetrock above it!

Can you guess what evening that was...

9 posted on 12/07/2007 5:39:55 AM PST by tubebender (The probability of being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity of your act.)
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To: metesky
Well, maybe I'm a grumpy middle-aged fart, but I prefer the old style of remembrance:


10 posted on 12/07/2007 5:45:46 AM PST by andy58-in-nh (Kill the terrorists, secure the borders, and give me back my freedom.)
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To: tubebender

First night of your honeymoon?


11 posted on 12/07/2007 5:49:04 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: andy58-in-nh

It must be obvious that I’m with you on that, Andy.


12 posted on 12/07/2007 5:50:46 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: metesky

Absolutely. I am fortunate enough to have met and spoken with
Pearl Harbor survivors and have seen within the eyes of each a mixture of wistfulness and fierce determination that for me defines the men of their generation. May God bless them all.


13 posted on 12/07/2007 6:03:50 AM PST by andy58-in-nh (Kill the terrorists, secure the borders, and give me back my freedom.)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan; SunkenCiv; EdReform; Born Conservative; Baynative; Calpernia; Gabz; ...

During the Reagan Administration, there was a massive study about the state of our public schools that stated that if a foreign power had been the cause, we would have considered it an act of war.

Was it not, indeed, virtually so?


14 posted on 12/07/2007 6:32:54 AM PST by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

bump


15 posted on 12/07/2007 6:36:34 AM PST by VOA
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To: Tut
If we had the same gang in power back then that we have now, we would of lost that war.

The united America that won WWII is long gone. It's been replaced by a stinkingcorrupt politically-correct multicultural socialist mess that can simply sweep overt acts of war (the Cole attack and the first Twin Towers bombing, as just 2 examples) under the rug and put on a Smiley Face. The 9-11 atrocity that killed more Americans on our own soil! than died at Pearl Harbor, has been swept into the old Memory Hole in just a few short years.

Meanwhile, most Americans are out right now shopping for all the Chinese-made Christmas gifts they can carry home. They're sending American dollars to the Chicoms that will be spent to build a huge military machine and a strong mercantilist economy to challenge America's future. Am I the only one who remembers pre-WWII American scrap metal sold to Japan coming back at us in the form of bombs, bullets and bayonets?

16 posted on 12/07/2007 7:12:48 AM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: metesky
Nah... that happened years earlier. My day of infamy was the night Wally Crankedtite announced his powers on CBS to end the Vietnam war by surrendering...
17 posted on 12/07/2007 7:12:53 AM PST by tubebender (The probability of being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity of your act.)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

“I consider it no sacrifice to die for my country. In my mind, we came here to thank God that men like these have lived rather than to regret that they have died.”

General George S. Patton


18 posted on 12/07/2007 7:33:32 AM PST by Patriot Hooligan ("God have mercy on my enemies because I won't." General George S. Patton)
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To: metesky
Maybe I'm just a grumpy old fart. :O(

You may be a grumpy old fart, but you are absolutely right. The focus of Pearl Harbor Day should be on those who lost their lives, not some damned oil bubbles.
19 posted on 12/07/2007 7:37:59 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (Ron Paul put the cuckoo in my Cocoa Puffs)
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To: metesky

They had a much more important subject to discuss: the looming ecological disaster the Arizona will cause as it gradually degrades in place!

Are you freaking serious? Why don’t the ‘Rats see a nuclear jihad as an ecological disaster?


20 posted on 12/07/2007 7:40:34 AM PST by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL (****************************Stop Continental Drift**)
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To: reagan_fanatic
My husband's grandfather died during this:
21 posted on 12/07/2007 7:44:03 AM PST by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL (****************************Stop Continental Drift**)
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To: tubebender
Uncle Walter. You know he made up that "most trusted man in America" with a roomful of Walter Durant type "journalists" engaging in a late night "brainstorming" session".

In retrospect it's been going on a lot longer than we think.

One thing I still love about the old timers, right and left, is that when they got together they drank whiskey and strong coffee and smoked tobacco, not pizza and power drinks like the modern pols and propagandists.

22 posted on 12/07/2007 9:13:06 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: SunkenCiv
Excellent post!

It's also worth noting that Germany and Italy had nothing to do with the Pearl Harbor attack, they merely shared the same fascist philosophy and aggressive attitude toward the Western democracies, but we still fought them and made their defeat number one on the to-do list over defeating Japan.

23 posted on 12/07/2007 9:26:11 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: metesky

Cable / satellite TV isn’t worth whatever people pay for it, particularly with broadband. Of course, if broadband isn’t an option, that could be a problem. Unless there’s dialup... :’) I don’t blame you one bit for being tinkled off.


24 posted on 12/07/2007 10:36:35 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, December 5, 2007 _________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Patriot Hooligan

Great! and apropos Patton quote!


25 posted on 12/07/2007 10:38:07 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, December 5, 2007 _________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: colorado tanker

Germany was a greater threat than Japan, but apparently like you I’m pretty sure the decision of V-E first was a politically motivated one. The Japanese were in a similar situation, that of being stretched across a big chunk of Asia, involved in a massive land war for years before Pearl Harbor. Also, the enemy code system was cracked in both cases. The Germans generally had better strategy, but like the Japanese were more of a land war power. Japanese strategy in their side of the Pacific war worked against the British and Dutch, but didn’t work worth a damn against the US Navy and Marines and some of the commanders we were lucky to have in that theater. Another thing that didn’t work in the Japanese favor was the lack of British interference in the conduct of the Pacific war; we were the only big guns in the fight, and got exactly what we wanted. That was definitely not the case in the Europe and Med theater.


26 posted on 12/07/2007 10:45:06 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, December 5, 2007 _________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
Another thing that didn’t work in the Japanese favor was the lack of British interference in the conduct of the Pacific war; we were the only big guns in the fight, and got exactly what we wanted. That was definitely not the case in the Europe and Med theater.

Excellent point. In the Pacific we could be nimble and imaginative with the island hopping strategy bypassing many big but strategically less important Japanese bases.

In Europe we were stuck with the stupid idea of fighting up the entire Italian peninsula, mountain by mountain, and with the broad front approach after D-Day that produced such gems as the completely unnecessary but extremely bloody Hurtgen Forest campaign.

27 posted on 12/07/2007 10:55:33 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

Churchill also (for political reasons, but perhaps as much for some odd personal reason) removed troops and capabilities from N Africa on the verge of victory there, in order to vainly pursue the defense of Greece against the Germans. It delayed Axis defeat in N Africa by at least a year, and of course likewise delayed implementation of Churchill’s ridiculous “soft underbelly” strategy in Europe, which was, in Italy, as you pointed out some of the most difficult and costly fighting of the war.


28 posted on 12/07/2007 11:18:56 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, December 5, 2007 _________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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seems like a good reason to post this again:

Autumn, 1942: It came down to one Marine, and one ship
Source: Enter Stage Right - A Journal of Modern Conservatism
Published: October 23, 2000 Author: Vin Suprynowicz
Posted on 10/23/2000 10:11:29 PDT by gordgekko
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39f47141497d.htm


29 posted on 12/07/2007 11:20:39 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Wednesday, December 5, 2007 _________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

bump


30 posted on 12/07/2007 11:21:02 AM PST by VOA
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

My wife considers 12/7 her personal Pearl Harbor day.

Thats the day I took my first flying lesson over 30 years ago.


31 posted on 12/07/2007 11:26:35 AM PST by dalereed
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To: SunkenCiv
Rick Atkinson's second volume is out, on the Italian campaign, and I'm curious what his take is. I really liked his first, An Army At Dawn.
32 posted on 12/07/2007 12:36:15 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Bernard Marx
Meanwhile, most Americans are out right now shopping for all the Chinese-made Christmas gifts they can carry home. They're sending American dollars to the Chicoms that will be spent to build a huge military machine and a strong mercantilist economy to challenge America's future. Am I the only one who remembers pre-WWII American scrap metal sold to Japan coming back at us in the form of bombs, bullets and bayonets?

I agree but for the life of me WHAT IS THE ANSWER? The Republican Platform supports trade, elitests support exporting the jobs for the highest bottom line, big business supports cheap labor for their stockholders whether it be via use of illegals or exporting the jobs.

We still have American citizens who are willing to work for a living but they certainly need to make a living they can raise a family on without housing 20 per room. And don't tell me education. Education is not for everyone and the more that are educated supply and demand make education less valuable.

The Republican Party does not address the want to be productive American and their problems. The only ones being address are those who contribute little, or nothing to society and are supported via the well known "safety net". What choice do the Americans who want to work have but to turn Liberals to exist? I wish someone would answer this question with an answer other than they need to work 2 or 3 jobs while at the same time the party makes things nice for the ones that fill their pockets at these peoples expense.

I truly am confused about the Republican Platform anymore. Americans should not have to get passports and go to work in third world countries to support a family. It is just plain wrong.

33 posted on 12/07/2007 12:53:52 PM PST by Snoopers-868th
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To: colorado tanker

If memory serves, Churchill had the gall to make a somewhat disdainful metaphor regarding the Italian campaign. Of course, overall, I like Churchill, he certainly towered over a good many politicians of his time (which make his occasional stupidity and vanity particularly frustrating to contemplate). A book you may enjoy, “The Desert Generals”, was written with very little reference to the US forces in the Africa campaign, it’s superb.


34 posted on 12/07/2007 9:01:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, December 7, 2007_____________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

The Germans are legendary for their mastery of the operational level of warfare, but strategically? No way. the Japanese, on the other hand, fufilled their strategic goals within the first six months of going to war. Their problems started whenthey faced the inevitable “what next?”. the Coral Sea and Midway operations only came into being when the Japanese sought to go beyond their original offensives.


35 posted on 12/07/2007 9:47:22 PM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: SunkenCiv

He did it twice! The second time came after Rommel was driven back after ‘Crusader’ in ‘41. The troops Churchill pulled out that time wound up surrendering to the Japanese in Singapore. The replacements got hammered by the Afrika Korps in the opening moves of their offensive on their way to Egypt - and El Alamein.


36 posted on 12/07/2007 9:50:36 PM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: SunkenCiv

Corelli Barnett. Loved his description of Monty -”take a sledgehammer to crack a walnut”...


37 posted on 12/07/2007 9:51:56 PM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: PzLdr
:')
The Germans are legendary for their mastery of the operational level of warfare, but strategically? No way.
The two front nightmare was a blunder, but hey, cut 'em some slack, they only did it twice in 25 years. Hitler fought the war like a proverbial bus driver -- the driver can't possibly keep his schedule if he has to stop to pick up passengers.
38 posted on 12/07/2007 10:22:38 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, December 7, 2007_____________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: PzLdr

Heh... one illustration of that, p 274 vs p 287 (this is in the enlarged edition).


39 posted on 12/07/2007 10:34:40 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, December 7, 2007_____________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Thanks colorado tanker.

Army at Dawn : The War in Africa, 1942-1943 The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944
Army at Dawn:
The War in Africa
1942-1943

by Rick Atkinson
The Day of Battle:
The War in Sicily and Italy
1943-1944

by Rick Atkinson


40 posted on 12/07/2007 10:50:59 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Friday, December 7, 2007_____________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Pearl Harbor video (Courtesy of Navy Memorial)
http://navytv.org/media.cfm?c=169&m=411&s=52&; | Various
Posted on 12/09/2007 8:03:35 PM EST by dcwusmc
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/vetscor/1937148/posts


41 posted on 12/09/2007 9:28:15 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Monday, December 10, 2007____________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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