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Firearms Advice - Coyote Problem (Vanity)
Vanity ^ | 12/09/2007 | Moose Dung

Posted on 12/09/2007 8:32:13 PM PST by Moose Dung

Sorry for posting this in the main area, but I need some advice quickly.

Over the past few weeks I've been having a real coyote problem. We're in the San Joaquin Valley and have always had issues with the coyotes, but this year seems to be expecially bad (even traveling in small packs, which I've never seen before). I need some recommendations on the proper weapon to deal with these varmints.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; coyote; property; rifle; shotgun
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To: Squantos; going hot
Found this; is it the one?

Funny stuff!

101 posted on 12/10/2007 4:56:39 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: Moose Dung

Winchester produces (at least they used to) 000 buckshot in their Super-X line for the .410. There are 3 pellets loaded in the case. That should be more than sufficent to ruin ole Wiley’s day.


102 posted on 12/10/2007 4:57:02 AM PST by WinMod70
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To: Moose Dung; Varmint Al

Contact “Varmint Al”:

http://www.varmintal.com/ahunt.htm


103 posted on 12/10/2007 5:03:10 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: razorback-bert
And when you're done you can make patties and put them on the grill!
104 posted on 12/10/2007 5:06:09 AM PST by Total Package (TOLEDO, OHIO THE MRSA INFECTION IN THE STATE)
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To: Moose Dung
If they are that close a 12ga with 00 buck. Out here in the outback I rarely get a shot that close so I use my 7mm Rem mag. None walk away. Any of the various “varmint” rounds work well on cootys. Most of my buddies use some version of a hot 22 - 22 swift etc. You are right this has been quite the year for them. The carcass count here is now well over 150. I hate em!!!Keep in mind the pelt is worth about $30 if you do not wreck it. Might help pay for a new gun.
105 posted on 12/10/2007 5:17:18 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ ("Has there been a code nine? Have you heard from the Doctor?")
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To: stainlessbanner

yep, all my neighbors in Gainesville had donkeys
in with their livestock. they hate coyotes and will
kill them.

you can’t be out hunting all the time.


106 posted on 12/10/2007 5:17:43 AM PST by rahbert
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To: Moose Dung

About those donkeys. I know you’ve received several emails about them and it is true. I live in Northern Alabama in a very rural area. Almost everyone with cattle or goats or any kind of livestock has one or two or three donkeys. It must work.

there are a lot of cayote around here. I hear them several times a week when a whole pack cuts loose for about 30 seconds it’s pure bedlam. It doesn’t sound like the cayote are anywhere near the guys with the donkeys. Sounds more like up in the mountains.


107 posted on 12/10/2007 5:20:47 AM PST by DugwayDuke (Ron Paul - building a bridge to the 19th century.)
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To: Moose Dung
Although it is, perhaps, not practical for you; a donkey really would be most effective. They don't spook, they get mad.

A friend of mine has a miniature donkey...a little cute one. It killed all three of her neighbors pit bulls in the same fight.

108 posted on 12/10/2007 5:41:02 AM PST by laotzu
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To: Moose Dung

I encountered a camo clad coyote hunter in the field and am pretty sure he had an AR 15.


109 posted on 12/10/2007 5:45:49 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Moveon is not us...... Moveon is the enemy)
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To: Moose Dung
“The nearest house is about a half mile away.”

Well, being that you live in a very remote area, and your object is to “kill” coyotes, suggest you purchase the right tool for the right job. In your case, being that a nominal shot would be only about 30 yards, I would suggest a 12 guage pump or semi-auto shotgun with a full choke barrel. Buy a box of 00 shot and start to work. Reason I recommend a shotgun is that coyotes appear to be larger than they really are as there is not much to their bodies underneath their coats. So, unless you are capable of reliably making headshots, the ole scatter gun is your best option with these wily critters....

110 posted on 12/10/2007 5:49:51 AM PST by snoringbear (')
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To: Moose Dung
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
111 posted on 12/10/2007 5:59:26 AM PST by Aut Pax Aut Bellum (Always carry a spare mag (or two)..)
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To: yarddog
“You are sure right there. I have had several Mini-14s and
Ranch rifles. They are neat guns and generally satisfactory but accuracy is a real weak point.”

Google Mini-14 forums. The common consensus is that a heavy muzzle brake to control vibration of the cheap, whippy barrel helps, often halving group size.

Sending the trigger assembly to Doc or a local gunsmith will also help.

112 posted on 12/10/2007 6:10:12 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: Squantos

‘zactly... 3 lbs of burger, 1 gal of anti-freeze... mix into 1/4 lbs portions...

course, then yuh don’t get to see’em ‘splode...


113 posted on 12/10/2007 6:16:54 AM PST by g'nad
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To: going hot
On my buddy'd 600 acre farm, we use M1A's from on top of the hay stack. They go airborne when hit.

Yep, they sure do fly... it looks like something out of those "Exploding Varmints" videos. My friend and I tested some home-brewed FN-FALs on his farm.

Dangit, now I'm missing the days of cheap Radway Green 7.62.

114 posted on 12/10/2007 6:36:38 AM PST by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: razorback-bert
Nice, but more practial when mounted in the family Suburban.


115 posted on 12/10/2007 6:48:56 AM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution ? 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Army Air Corps; Moose Dung
SKS

And the ammo is cheap!

Blam away!

116 posted on 12/10/2007 6:48:57 AM PST by Designer
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To: Moose Dung
except the donkey thing(!?!?)

I think the idea is that when the coyote comes sniffing around, the donkey stomps the living $#!+ out of it ... or kicks it into the next county. Somewhere, floating about the internet, is a series of pictures showing a couple of pack mules engaging a mountain lion. The mountain lion didn't do too well.

117 posted on 12/10/2007 6:54:28 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Aut Pax Aut Bellum
Seriously, 30 yards is about maxed out on buckshot. You'd have to check patterns, different brands, etc.Slugs are nice, but hard recoil-slow 2nd shot
mini-14's are expensive new, nowadays, and vary on accuracy from gun to gun. SKS's now are expensive, as is the ammo.(except for the grenade launcher sks, and I'd personally skip them... Plus, FMJ doesn't kill that well.)
Headshots are great-in a perfect world.Critters don't always cooperate.
The 17 Hornady is awesome. However, a cheap used Marlin bolt in 22 mag is great, too. Amazing the difference between the knock down of a 22LR vs. 22 mag. 30-30 is good ,too. Hit the local gunshops and see what they got that fits your budget. Even a lever action in 357 or 44 mag or even 45 long colt would be plenty. Even a used marlin camp45 carbine (semi rifle in 45 acp) would wallop them.
I personally have found most lasers to be crap. They move under recoil. Rifle scopes-forget them at night, hard to pickup your target fast. A simple red dot style scope is good, then you only need some ambient light (battery powered spot light,hand held) or whatever.
118 posted on 12/10/2007 7:04:11 AM PST by Aut Pax Aut Bellum (Always carry a spare mag (or two)..)
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To: Moose Dung

Almost ran over one of these critters driving home from the train station one night. This is in a densely populated area in Central New Jersey BTW.


119 posted on 12/10/2007 7:05:52 AM PST by Clemenza (Rudy Giuliani, like Pesto and Seattle, belongs in the scrap heap of '90s Culture)
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To: Fairview
That's true. They will hunt down and stomp coyotes to death.

LOL...you must have some pretty wimpy yippee dogs if they can be stomped by a donkey or llama.

120 posted on 12/10/2007 7:09:51 AM PST by Cuttnhorse
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To: Moose Dung

You do need a .223, with a scope. What the so-called experts posting here don’t understand is after the first kill with a shotgun or .22, you will be lucky to see the next dog. Coyotes are very smart and don’t stand around to be shot at after the first time.

And the advise about llamas and donkeys is good...they aren’t afraid of coyotes and will harass them; but don’t believe for a minute a donkey or coyote will run one down and kill it. What a joke.


121 posted on 12/10/2007 7:13:38 AM PST by Cuttnhorse
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To: Cuttnhorse

Actually, eastern coyotes are much bigger than western ones. But llamas, which weigh 500 pounds and up, can certainly stomp a coyote that weighs one-tenth of that. I don’t know why they are so aggressive, but when they see a predator they go nuts.

There’s a video somewhere of a donkey attacking and killing a cougar. It’s amazing. You start to feel sorry for the cougar.


122 posted on 12/10/2007 7:15:37 AM PST by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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To: Fairview
From website: http://www.blackbearheaven.com/horse-kills-cougar.htm

Mule Kills Mountain Lion

"These pics came from a guy in Arizona. Yes, the mule killed the mountain lion. The lion had been stalking them for the better part of the morning, on the way out to a hunt. They were pretty sure it was after one of the dogs. The cat ambushed them, and the mule pictured tossed its rider and went into attack (defense) mode, the horses scattered and shots were fired but no one was sure if they hit the cat or not. Unfortunately, it wasn't until it was almost over that one of the guys started snapping pics. The mule finally stomped the cougar to death after biting and throwing it around like a rag doll. The dogs wouldn't even come close until the mule settled down.

The cat was still alive here and trying to fight back

The mule stomped the cat then pinned it to the ground and bit the heck out of the dead cat several more times.

The cat was pretty much dead by now then mule picked up the cat again whipped it into the air again then stomped the dead cat again for good measure!

123 posted on 12/10/2007 7:27:01 AM PST by laotzu
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To: Cuttnhorse
You do need a .223, with a scope. What the so-called experts posting here don’t understand is after the first kill with a shotgun or .22, you will be lucky to see the next dog. Coyotes are very smart and don’t stand around to be shot at after the first time.
Um, experts? None here. But I have killed a fair share of coyote and coy-dog. I am focusing on his comments: quickly-no time for expensive trigger jobs, accuacy work, or working up loads, zeroing and the like. Secondly-he's shooting them at night. Daytime, yeup-nice distance piece.No question. I'd lean towards a 30 cal (308,300 mag)He ain't eating them...
Night time changes a lot. AR with an Eotech or Comp M-great. But I am assuming he's on a budget.
124 posted on 12/10/2007 7:36:46 AM PST by Aut Pax Aut Bellum (Always carry a spare mag (or two)..)
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To: Fairview

Llamas are very protective, but coyotes generally don’t let donks and llamas get near them. Heck, I’ve seen steers chase coyotes out of pastures. Coyotes are oportunistic hunters and seldom risk getting injured...they test and if anything responds aggresively they generally back off.

I did not see the video you mention but for awhile there were a series of digital photos of a mule and a cougar, and alas, like much on the internet, the photos were later proven to be staged. The cougar was already dead and some interprising guides had rigged the whole thing.

I have quite a bit of experience with yippee dogs...I now live in rural Idaho but have worked all over the west including a few years cowboying in central Nevada. I hear the little buggars every night where I’m living now. I normally let them do their thing until calving season; then I will plink at them and they normally back off. Again, about the first time you shoot at one, your next shot will be at a pretty long distance.


125 posted on 12/10/2007 7:43:54 AM PST by Cuttnhorse
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To: FreedomPoster

yeah, picture it with a coyote under the wire, with tongue hanging out like a mouse.


126 posted on 12/10/2007 7:44:46 AM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Charles Martel

Federal now makes a good flying 165g soft point boat tail in .308 that has a good wallop


127 posted on 12/10/2007 7:47:41 AM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: TC Rider; razorback-bert

I have seen that rig demonstrated and let me say this.......line-x or rhino coat that subs roof now or repaint weekly......:o)


128 posted on 12/10/2007 7:47:46 AM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: laotzu

Unfortunately, after a lot of circulation the photos were found to be staged...the lion was already dead. I know, I know, it looks like the mule is working the cat over, but after looking closely it is pretty obvious the cat is in some pretty unnatural positions. The photos were later proven to be bogus.


129 posted on 12/10/2007 7:49:31 AM PST by Cuttnhorse
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To: FreedomPoster

That’s it...........LMAO !!

Thanks !


130 posted on 12/10/2007 7:54:40 AM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: Cheburashka; Moose Dung

Black Dog is correct.

Great Pyrenese.

Unless you actually want the challenge of staying up all night and shooting them.

My Great Pyr has completely eliminated the local coyote problem. The local eastern coyotes are often as big as german shepards. They sometimes pack up to the dozen.

When we moved into this rural neighborhood we were told that dogs and cats were going missing all the time and the coyotes would come right up onto the porch after prey.

They packed up for the hunt right across the road from us. We used to hear them howl evey night when we first moved in.

Then they met my dog. He is designed to fight a whole pack at once and finds it an easy fight. Their bites have no affect on him and he kills with a single bite of his own.
In fact, for them to bite him is to sign their own death warrant. They can all leap on him at once and he’ll just take his time, reaching around and snapping their necks or crushing their skulls at his leisure.

And he is the sweetest, cuddliest fluffball you could ever want. He also sings beautiful, especially if you play Beethoven. He treats my ancient rottweiler like a princess and is gentle with my daughter’s ankle-biter.

I haven’t heard a coyote howl in two years now and my neighbors haven’t either.

Even the bear who used to travel by on the other side of the road doesn’t come by any more. I still occaisionally see his tracks on the far side of the lake.


131 posted on 12/10/2007 7:55:50 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Bright, shiny objects need not apply!)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
Then they met my dog

Sounds like a great dog. I am envious.

132 posted on 12/10/2007 8:03:39 AM PST by laotzu
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To: laotzu

You should hear him sing the Ode to Joy.

Not great with the words, but he has the music down.


133 posted on 12/10/2007 8:06:37 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Bright, shiny objects need not apply!)
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To: rstrahan
I’d suggest a 12/16 guage pump shotgun with buckshot.

12 gauge 00 buck would be OK for coyotes at short range, under 25-30 yards or so, but the shot pattern spreads too fast in most guns to be reliable beyond that distance. I don't know about CA coyotes, but around here (north GA) if you can get within 100 yards of one you are either very lucky or an expert stalker in the same class with Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett. Coyotes are tough critters, and if you just wound him he will run off and then you don't know it he dies or not. A coyote gutshot with a .22 rimfire or a buckshot pellet will travel for miles before going down and dying in misery a few days later, and I won't do that to any animal if I can help it.

I don't have a coyote problem out here where I live, not yet anyway. But if I did I think I would buy a Savage model 110 bolt action rifle with a 3-9x scope, probably a .243 caliber like the one my neighbor uses for deer hunting. With a 100 grain bullet his rifle will make a clean kill on a buck deer at 200 yards or more, and I'm sure it would work even better on a 50 lb coyote. Of course it also would do double duty as a fine deer rifle if I bought one, and you can't say that for any .22 centerfire round even though some folks around here use those for deer.

I used to hunt deer in the thick woods down in FL's Big Cypress Swamp with my 90+ year old model 94 Winchester .30-30 with a 26" octagon barrel, and I'm sure it would kill a coyote like a lightning bolt. But now that Winchester is out of business it's become a collector's item in NRA very good original condition, and I don't want to destroy it's collector value by drilling and tapping it for a scope mount.

134 posted on 12/10/2007 9:26:27 AM PST by epow
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To: epow

In re # 134, in addition to the old Winchester I also have a Chinese SKS 16” “paratrooper” and a 1901 vintage 6.5mm Swede Mauser that would be good for coyotes. But the SKS shoots dinner plate size groups at 100 yards, and the Swede is in too good shape to mess up by drilling for a scope mount. Anyway, coyotes would be a good excuse for buying another rifle, and you can’t knock that idea.


135 posted on 12/10/2007 9:38:54 AM PST by epow
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To: TLI; Moose Dung
Good morning.
“MD, I would suggest that this is a great opportunity to invest in a Bushmaster AR-15.”

MD’s in California and is not to be trusted with an evil black rifle. Or an SKS. or any number of weapons.

Have TPTB here banned atlatls yet?

I never knew that they were pack animals, but several coyotes come around my property every night now. A Talon 400 air rifle is going to be my Christmas present to myself this year and I expect the survivors to move on soon after that.

Michael Frazier

136 posted on 12/10/2007 9:50:19 AM PST by brazzaville (No surrender, no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville; Moose Dung
Bushmaster has a line of AR's specifically Cal legal. That being said, there are a LOT of good suggestions in the posts on these threads as far as good "bang sticks."

As they say "whatever trips your trigger."

137 posted on 12/10/2007 10:18:51 AM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: brazzaville
Or an SKS.

I have ask this several times lately here on FR and never gotten a response. What was the final tally on the late-great SKS confiscation? Anyone know what percentage they actually got?

138 posted on 12/10/2007 10:21:37 AM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: TLI
I have ask this several times lately here on FR and never gotten a response. What was the final tally on the late-great SKS confiscation? Anyone know what percentage they actually got?

I'd like to know what the end result was, too. IIRC, the confiscation was technically intended to collect only those SKS models which had been manufactured to accept detachable AK magazines - a tiny percentage of all the SKS rifles shipped to the U.S.

There was also some state court ruling which declared that an owner-modified SKS was subject to confiscation too, though I never heard whether the rifle in question had truly been modded to accept AK mags, or had been fitted with the extended fixed magazine that *looks* like a detachable type.

It might not hurt to bring these topics back to the fore, what with a potentially ugly election looming ahead.

139 posted on 12/10/2007 11:02:11 AM PST by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: Moose Dung; Varmint Al
You need to talk to Varmint Al!

>Varmint Al


140 posted on 12/10/2007 11:09:29 AM PST by Doomonyou (Let them eat lead.)
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To: Moose Dung

If you go .223, may I suggest an Armalite AR-180B, if still legal in Cali. Easy to shoot, not too costly, fairly accurate, easy to clean, and an improved action over most ARs that tends to stay cleaner over use. Be sure of what’s behind the coyote, though - those .223 rounds go a ways...


141 posted on 12/10/2007 11:11:53 AM PST by piytar
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To: Moose Dung

30 yards and under, 12 gauge with a 3in turkey load.

over 30 yards: .22-250. sweet shooting and can rach out to 300 yards no problem.


142 posted on 12/10/2007 11:13:27 AM PST by beebuster2000 (choice is not not peace or war, but small war now, or big war later masquerading as peace now.)
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To: Moose Dung
I need some recommendations on the proper weapon to deal with these varmints.

One of these should do the job:


143 posted on 12/10/2007 11:18:14 AM PST by Hacksaw (Appalachian by the grace of God - Montani Semper Liberi)
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To: Moose Dung

Actually, after hitting 2 deer within a month on the way home from work, I am not really in favor of eliminating predators that much....


144 posted on 12/10/2007 11:19:08 AM PST by Hacksaw (Appalachian by the grace of God - Montani Semper Liberi)
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To: Moose Dung
The problem with the .22 is that I need it at night, the coyotes move pretty quick, and I’m on foot with my maglite.

If you're shooting within the range of your flashlight beam, I'd try to stick with a rimfire. If you have neighbors a half-mile away, a centerfire rifle caliber might have more reach than you (and your neighbors) would like.

I'd do as suggested in #37 above and put a laser sight on that Marlin. At 30 yards or so, the projected red dot will be large enough to see and use to great effect. Those sights are generally cheaper than the optical red dot type and would work well on most rifles or shotguns.

Grab one of those "rabbit in distress" recordings from a sporting goods supplier and bait 'em in to where you can get a clear shot. And be sure to report back here with your results. :-)

145 posted on 12/10/2007 11:23:04 AM PST by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: Moose Dung
If the coyotes are coming in to the 30 to 40 yard range, then a 12 Ga Semi-Auto shotgun would be the best choice. I would suggest BB sized shot or larger so you would be assured of a hit to the vitals. Most would be shots at running coyotes and a shotgun would work best.


If the coyotes are at longer ranges out to 150 yards, I would suggest a 17 HMR. It will kill them but about half of the well hit coyotes will be able to run off and die somewhere else. In my experience the 17 HMR is lethal on coyotes but is underpowered for reliable on the spot kills. With the 17 HMR, the noise level is a minimum and once the tiny 17 gr bullet hits the ground it disintegrate and minimizes the possibility of ricochets. 

If you want to drop the coyotes in their tracks, then a 223 Rem or 243 Win caliber would be my choice. I would suggest the 55 gr bullet in the 223 Rem and the 80 gr bullet in the 243 Win calibers. Each pack plenty of energy to reliably drop a coyote. At the longer ranges, you will need a scope sight on any rifle you choose. I would suggest a 3-9X scope. I would leave the scope on 3X power and then for a long distance standing shot, if you have time, switch to the 9X power.


The Remington Model 7 in 223 Rem or 243 Win caliber would be a good choice.

You might want to consider calling the coyotes into range for shooting. On my Coyote Hunting Page I have a number of coyote calling sounds, Hurt Rabbit or Chicken in Distress, for example, that are free downloads. One can burn them to a CD and use a Boom-Box for calling or something similar. Calling them has the advantage that the coyotes will come to the sound expecting a free dinner when you are ready for them. To help in accurate shooting you can make a pair of Bi-Fur-Pod shooting stick for a rest in the field.

Good Hunting... from Varmint Al

146 posted on 12/10/2007 11:58:33 AM PST by Varmint Al
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To: DugwayDuke

A little off topic...but I hear a pig is the best thing for getting rid of poisonous snakes. Pigs like to eat snakes, poisonous our not.


147 posted on 12/10/2007 12:03:25 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: epow

I love the Swede Mausers! If I was to go coyote hunting, I would probably grab my deer rifle, which is a Swede Mauser action restocked on a nice walnut stock with a 6x Leopold (I made this rifle up years ago, when barreled actions were dirt cheap).

I understand your reluctance to scope a milsurp, but are you aware that someone makes a scout mount for these rifles? You remove the rear sight, and the mount replaces it. I don’t know firsthand if they are any good or not, but it does provide a no-tap option.


148 posted on 12/10/2007 12:36:37 PM PST by Rockhound
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To: Moose Dung

If shooting is dicey- Get an adult male Great Pyrennes dog. (sp)
They are herd guard dogs and despite their size and VERY gentle nature, they will take down a coyote. If the packs are large, then perhaps the gun is the best. Packs can bring down any dog. My neighbor has a Great P and it kept the coyote population away for about a mile radius. It’s owner had rabbits, sheep, and horses. When they moved to the Midwest, the neighbors looked askance at the dog’s size until he went after openly lurking coyotes in the middle of the day. NOw he is the hero of the area.


149 posted on 12/10/2007 12:41:43 PM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: Varmint Al

Al,

Thanks for the advice. I’ve been checkin’ out your website, too. One question, why the BB shot? Most the of other FReepers are suggesting 00 or 000 slugs.

dung.


150 posted on 12/10/2007 2:12:55 PM PST by Moose Dung (Perquacky is a fools game.)
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