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Eye on China, troops relocating to Bengal
telegraphindia ^ | 12/12/07 | SUJAN DUTTA

Posted on 12/13/2007 3:01:52 AM PST by Flavius

Dec. 12: The Indian Army is relocating a division of troops to North Bengal from Jammu after the security establishment has taken stock of a Chinese move into a high plateau in Bhutan named Dolam.

Major elements of the 27 Mountain Division have already moved out and among these are units of the 164 Mountain Brigade based in Kalimpong, an army headquarters source has confirmed to The Telegraph.

A Chinese move into Dolam means that India’s border with China gets distorted at Sikkim’s tri-point with Bhutan. It also means that Chinese forces move a few kilometres south from where they originally were. It brings them closer to North Bengal’s Siliguri Corridor. China has always laid claim to Dolam. There is a suspicion that it has now extended its claim line.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraphindia.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; chinesetroops; india; indiantroops; war
ah whats a little fun around the border between strong economic partners


1 posted on 12/13/2007 3:01:54 AM PST by Flavius
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To: Flavius
Or? Put a "

down and help 'em out,

NO, nothing? ... alright back to original splurging this the season for it...

2 posted on 12/13/2007 3:04:36 AM PST by Flavius (24/7)
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To: Flavius

Would love to see India and the damn chi-coms get into a knock down drag out fight along their border.
Maybe the Vietnameese will join in the fun against the damn chi-coms too.


3 posted on 12/13/2007 3:19:41 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Joe Boucher

An event like that would leave no option for the US, but to intervene. China occupying strategic areas in the Indian Ocean region will be a geo-political nightmare for America.


4 posted on 12/13/2007 7:07:07 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: Flavius

The Chicoms won’t try anything until after the Bejjing Olympics. And even if they do they will get there asses handed to them. However, four or five years from now might be an entirely different story.


5 posted on 12/13/2007 9:31:08 AM PST by quant5
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To: CarrotAndStick

US wont be doing anything except sit on the fence and advise restraint.


6 posted on 12/13/2007 9:49:54 AM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: Joe Boucher

I don’t think it would be fun at all, especially if the Indians and Vietnamese can’t keep the Chinese at bay (highly plausible scenario). The Chinese navy is today strong enough to occupy all of the islands in the South China Sea (if US does not intervene). They are just itching for an excuse to do so. The Chinese also have high ground advantage against India around that area.


7 posted on 12/13/2007 10:13:41 AM PST by charles m
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To: CarrotAndStick

How can you be certain the chi-coms would dominate?


8 posted on 12/13/2007 10:54:27 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: charles m

You don’t think the Chi-coms are in power as a result of the U.S. propping up their economy?
Stop our trade imbalance and they fall.


9 posted on 12/13/2007 10:56:27 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Joe Boucher; charles m

No, I don’t think the Chinese will be able to get deep into India. For one thing, this is not the same Indian military that the Chinese have known. Secondly, there is no such thing as a “high ground advantage” on the Himalayas. The mountains are steep on both sides of the border. But that said, the US wouldn’t want to even risk a Chinese dominance in the Subcontinent.

Hot war or not, the first signs of things moving in that direction will see US military supplies pouring into India.

All I wanted to say was that the US will not have the option to sit back and watch.


10 posted on 12/13/2007 11:08:48 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

Good points.


11 posted on 12/13/2007 11:38:01 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Flavius

Mountain war is a tough business.


12 posted on 12/13/2007 11:40:43 AM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: CarrotAndStick

I disagree, for instance, India’s Arunachal is definitely lower than the Chinese side. Secondly, the Chinese have no interest to “get deep” into India. No country in the world today would have such an interest I’d wager.


13 posted on 12/13/2007 12:17:31 PM PST by charles m
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To: Joe Boucher

Stop our trade imbalance, and we’ll see massive shortages on the state side as well. Don’t think trade doesn’t work both ways. When 75% of our economy is based on consumption, I don’t think we can so easily say “stop our trade imbalance and they fall.” The Chinese and other foreigners are propping up our economy as well. Citibank just got bailed out by a bunch of Saudis asking for 11% returns.

The point is, short of outright invasion by the Chinese of US territories or bases, the US is not going to stop trade with China. And the Chinese aren’t stupid enough to repeat the Japanese.


14 posted on 12/13/2007 12:22:15 PM PST by charles m
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To: charles m

Correct you are on all accounts.
Incidently I made about $35,000 the moment those from I believe Dubai sank a bundle to bail out Citi bank.

However we can get by with out poor quality crap from the chi-coms a whole lot easier then they can do without us buying their crap.

Have you ever eaten shrimp from china? They are fed human waste then when grown, sent to the U.S. and other “rich countries”. Like so much of their poor quality junk.


15 posted on 12/13/2007 12:29:51 PM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Joe Boucher
Have you ever eaten shrimp from china? They are fed human waste then when grown, sent to the U.S. and other “rich countries”. Like so much of their poor quality junk.

Ah, it's all a matter of perspective. Liberals think "organic foods" are the epitome of quality.
16 posted on 12/13/2007 12:37:57 PM PST by charles m
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To: charles m

Lower or higher, Arunachal Pradesh is not a plain. Besdes, India has plenty of actual war experience in using aircraft to bomb bumkers in the mountans. How recently has China done the same?


17 posted on 12/13/2007 12:56:37 PM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

Oh let’s not turn this into another India and China pissing contest. I was just replying to Joe that it’s really not in our interest to see China and India duking it out with each other. Even if India wins or is advantageous, it gives China an opportunity to flex some of its muscles. Like you said, how recently has China done the same? Well, the answer to that is not very recently. So let’s keep it that way.


18 posted on 12/13/2007 1:08:12 PM PST by charles m
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To: Flavius

Any idea of what sparked this?


19 posted on 12/13/2007 3:18:31 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Joe Boucher

China has already moved into the Vietnamese Paracels where it can monitor submarines in the whole South China Sea. The Vietnamese, who seem capable of holding off the Chinese on land do not have sufficient navy to defend their islands.


20 posted on 12/13/2007 3:29:17 PM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them OVER THERE than to have to fight them OVER HERE!)
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To: charles m
The Chicoms certainly have intentions to do more then just flex muscles. This is a strategy Chicoms use to gain greater bargaining chip on the negotiation table. The flex their muscles, act billigerent and try to negotiate from a position of strength. What India needs to do is recognize Chinese suzerainty over Tibet or Chinese claim over Taiwan...... and begin negotiations from there. If Tibet isnt Chinese in the first place, Sikkim, Bhutan or Arunachal Pradesh cant be Chinese.
21 posted on 12/13/2007 3:34:57 PM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: charles m
The Chicoms certainly have intentions to do more then just flex muscles. This is a strategy Chicoms use to gain greater bargaining chip on the negotiation table. The flex their muscles, act billigerent and try to negotiate from a position of strength. What India needs to do is recognize Chinese suzerainty over Tibet or Chinese claim over Taiwan...... and begin negotiations from there. If Tibet isnt Chinese in the first place, Sikkim, Bhutan or Arunachal Pradesh cant be Chinese.
22 posted on 12/13/2007 3:34:58 PM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: Jeff Head

bttt


23 posted on 12/13/2007 3:39:53 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: CarrotAndStick; Joe Boucher
“Hot war or not, the first signs of things moving in that direction will see US military supplies pouring into India.

All I wanted to say was that the US will not have the option to sit back and watch.”

I am not sure what supplies would actually pour in. India’s defense systems are hardly compatible with American systems and the logistics, the infrastructure and training required to operate and integrate American systems wont change over night. Besides America will look out for its own interests. China is a bigger business partner then India and they are a strong enemy to take on, they wont jump on India’s side so quickly. I doubt they would take such a risk.

24 posted on 12/13/2007 3:58:51 PM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: Flavius
Chinese military post at Nathu La


25 posted on 12/13/2007 4:11:01 PM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: Fitzcarraldo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutan:

On November 13, 2005, Chinese soldiers crossed into Bhutan under the pretext that environmental conditions had forced their retreat south from the Himalayas. The Bhutanese government allowed this incursion (after the fact) on humanitarian grounds.[citation needed] Soon after, the Chinese began building roads and bridges within Bhutanese territory. Bhutanese Foreign Minister Khandu Wangchuk took up the matter with Chinese authorities after the issue was raised in Bhutanese parliament. In response, Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang of the People's Republic of China has said that the border remains in dispute (completely ignoring the original official pretext for the incursion) and that the two sides continue to work for a peaceful and cordial resolution of the dispute. An Indian intelligence officer has said that a Chinese delegation in Bhutan told the Bhutanese that they were "overreacting." The Bhutanese newspaper Kuensel has said that China might use the roads to further Chinese claims along the border.

Bhutan has no formal relations with the United States, Russia, the United Kingdom or France. This is possibly done deliberately so Bhutan is not seen as an enemy to China, these nations all being members of the United Nations Security Council.[citation needed] Informal contact with the United States is made through the U.S. embassy in New Delhi.

26 posted on 12/13/2007 4:22:41 PM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: Flavius

Link to photos of the area


27 posted on 12/13/2007 4:33:12 PM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: Flavius


28 posted on 12/13/2007 4:37:34 PM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: Gengis Khan

The last time there was an Indo-Chinese confrontation, the Americans were supplying India.


29 posted on 12/13/2007 7:06:36 PM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: All

as you see below no one cares so we should all go back to regular programing

Asked about whether Indian Army was concerned about reported intrusions of Chinese army into Bhutan, he said it was a matter between Bhutan and China to solve.

“It is a matter between Bhutan and China to resolve. So that is a issue at diplomatic level. I have nothing to say,” he said.

On the upcoming military exercise between Indian and Chinese army, Kapoor said it will basically focus on counter terror operations.

“The threat of terrorism is increasing. We all are facing it. The exercise will basically focus on Counter terrorism operations,” the Army Chief said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Infiltration_may_increase_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir_Army_Chief/articleshow/2619937.cms


30 posted on 12/13/2007 7:24:15 PM PST by Flavius (24/7)
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To: CarrotAndStick

At the time we were operating a lot of vintage British and Americans equippments. Soviet weaponry were almost non existant in the Indian inventory.


31 posted on 12/13/2007 7:32:41 PM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: Gengis Khan

That’s a good point. How about satellite intelligence, radars, etc?


32 posted on 12/13/2007 7:34:16 PM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: arthurus

Good post and reasoning.


33 posted on 12/14/2007 3:15:27 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: CarrotAndStick
Yes most likely we would share Satellite intelligence and any other intelligence. As for radar, we dont use many American radars except for thw Weapon Locating Radars that the Army uses. The kind of equipment takes a lot of time before they and be deployed and used effectively, these hi-tech equipments require lot of system integration and training of personnel before they get fully operationalized.
34 posted on 12/14/2007 3:29:56 PM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: CarrotAndStick

What I think US could do however is give us aerial recon and AWAC support if at all they would want to get involved in Indo-China conflict. They would have to operate the AWAC while our fighters would receive real time info through datalink. India and US have done excercises (both Navy and Airforce) to work out the modalities and integration issues to be able to jointly coordinate in operations. I dont whats the current status and how far we have actually progressed on sorting out integrational issues but my guess would be we have fair amount of capability to jointly coordinate in military operations.
But we would still require their (US) direct involvement, not just their equipment, in order to jointly coordinate. The question is how far would they want to get involved.


35 posted on 12/14/2007 3:43:00 PM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: Gengis Khan

I think the stakes for the US are higher in a China vs India situation than in a China vs Taiwan situation. Even from a toe-hold in the Indian ocean situation, it will be worse off for the US should China start to push downwards into India.


36 posted on 12/15/2007 4:40:29 AM PST by MimirsWell
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