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Colorado hero shows gun law must change
The Daily Telegram DAILY (MI) ^ | December 12, 2007 | MASTHEAD EDITORIAL

Posted on 12/13/2007 6:45:42 PM PST by neverdem

At issue: A woman using a handgun to stop a killer in a “soft target,” a church.

Our view: The case shows why Michigan school staff need an option for training and concealed carry, not “gun-free zones.”

Another month has brought more shooting sprees in what commonly are “gun-free zones.” Four died in two separate shootings Sunday in Colorado. Eight were murdered last Wednesday in an Omaha, Neb., shopping mall. Seven students were slain recently in Finland. That followed a Cleveland school shooting in October.

Only in the latest attack did an adult have a right to a gun to defend herself and others. And that attack Sunday at a crowded Colorado church ended abruptly when citizen volunteer Jeanne Assam used her handgun to stop the killer before he could murder dozens of other innocent people.

“When the shots were fired, she rushed toward the scene and encountered the attacker there in a hallway. He never got more than 50 feet inside our building,” senior pastor Brady Boyd told reporters. “There could have been a great loss of life yesterday, and she probably saved over 100 lives.”

But if a similar killer entered a Michigan school, even a former police officer such as Assam could not legally protect students with her firearm. That’s because Michigan unwisely made schools gun-free zones except for active-duty law enforcement, which basically means that mass murderers can rest assured law-abiding staff are unarmed. Time and again we see how intermediate steps such as counseling or unarmed guards fail to stop killers such as Cho Seung-hui (Virginia Tech), Jeff Weise (Red Lake, Minn.) or others. Rather than discourage psychopaths, gun-free zones assist their quests for high body counts and ill-deserved fame.

Michigan House Bill 5162 would give law-abiding adults who pass background checks and concealed weapons training a choice to protect their students, if their district approves. Private citizens saving lives by using firearms to stop killers have been documented in case after case — a high school in Pearl, Miss., a college at Appalachian School of Law and now a church in Colorado. In each case, the arguments raised by opponents against concealed carry laws were shown to be hollow. The citizen’s firearm was not taken away by an attacker, the scene did not become a free-fire zone and the citizen did not accidentally hit innocent bystanders.

Survivors are asking how many victims might have been saved if the Omaha shopping mall had not banned firearms, which are legal elsewhere in Nebraska. If officials cannot keep victims safe — and will not allow them to protect themselves — then some believe those officials ought to be held liable in lawsuits for violating the victims’ true “equal protection” rights. Gun-free zone liability acts have been introduced in Georgia and Arizona, and are being considered in other states.

Must a score of Michigan school children end up victims before House Bill 5162 receives a House Judiciary Committee hearing? We would much prefer to see the headline “Hero saves 100,” than “Lawmaker: ‘I never thought it could happen here.’ ”


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona; US: Colorado; US: Georgia; US: Michigan; US: Nebraska; US: Ohio; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: assam; banglist; cleveland; mall; newlifechurch; omaha; schoolshooting; selfdefense; vatech; virginiatech

1 posted on 12/13/2007 6:45:43 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem
This event really has crystallized the issue to RKBA advantage. MSNBC’s lib anchorette can’t get past it but this could result in the removal of some of the “no guns” signs I’ve seen.
2 posted on 12/13/2007 6:49:04 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (ENERGY CRISIS made in Washington D. C.)
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To: neverdem

The problem with, “gun-free zones” is that criminals and crazies don’t play.


3 posted on 12/13/2007 6:49:58 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: neverdem; Joe Brower
Nah, makes too much sense.


4 posted on 12/13/2007 6:50:40 PM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: neverdem

About 10 years ago on a local (Detroit area) talk show, a teacher called in and said that his principal had asked him, former military, to keep a gun in his class room for just this purpose.


5 posted on 12/13/2007 6:59:04 PM PST by stayathomemom
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To: All
Gun-free zone liability acts have been introduced in Georgia and Arizona, and are being considered in other states.

The GOP ought to jump on that idea in every state, shall issue in the states not yet shall issue and allowing teachers concealed carry.

6 posted on 12/13/2007 7:01:51 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Between the shooting in Denver and the shooting in Colorado Springs the shooter drove by about 50 yards from where I was worshiping last Sunday. Unfortunately we meet in a public high school which is a gun free zone, no concealed carry allowed. If he had decided to shoot us there would have been no one legally allowed to shoot back.


7 posted on 12/13/2007 7:04:07 PM PST by DaveyB (Ignorance is part of the human condition - atheism makes it permanent!)
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To: Travis McGee

Maybe if we start charging gun grabbers with “Accessory to murder”, they’ll go away...


8 posted on 12/13/2007 7:05:33 PM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: neverdem
Thankfully, Jeanne Assam probably doesn't want to be a poster babe, as much as many would find that pleasant indeed.
9 posted on 12/13/2007 7:09:51 PM PST by Carry_Okie (Duncan Hunter for President)
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To: neverdem

Not to detract from her heroism in any way, but, wasn’t there a man who challenged and distracted the killer, and got shot? Seems like he’s gone down the memory hole already. What happened there?


10 posted on 12/13/2007 7:20:35 PM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast ( "Do well, but remember to do good.")
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Another valuable by-product of Miss Assam’s action is subtle but will pay dividends. Because of her, more people with CWP’s will decide to carry more often.

With any luck, it may be more likely that when some bozo decides to shoot up another public place there may be a good citizen there to stop them.

Perhaps then the tide will turn and the nonsense of the “gun free zone” will subside.


11 posted on 12/13/2007 7:21:25 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Ramius

“Gun free zone” signs are all over Minnesota.


12 posted on 12/13/2007 7:25:28 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (ENERGY CRISIS made in Washington D. C.)
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To: neverdem
We would much prefer to see the headline “Hero saves 100,” than “Lawmaker: ‘I never thought it could happen here.’ ”

BTTT.

13 posted on 12/13/2007 7:28:51 PM PST by snowsislander
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To: neverdem
All these "gun free" zones should require everybody to move around in them strapped in wheelchairs, wearing boxing gloves, motorcycle helmets, earplugs and vision-distorting goggles.

That might solve the problem (providing there were armed guards to enforce the regulations).

14 posted on 12/13/2007 7:39:45 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
No, Larry Bourbonnais has been interviewed fairly extensively.

He had promised himself after Columbine that he would "ride to the sound of the guns" instead of running away, so he did.

He praised Ms. Assam's coolness and courage under fire. He also noted that two hired security guards not only refused to use their weapons, but refused to give them to parishioners who were begging for them to return fire.

He was shot in the arm, hopefully the wound is not serious.

15 posted on 12/13/2007 7:45:36 PM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I don’t think a lot will be said about him because to do so will bring attention back to God, heroines and guns, IMO. This has to be a media nightmare.


16 posted on 12/13/2007 7:53:44 PM PST by CindyDawg
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To: Dead Corpse
"Maybe if we start charging gun grabbers with “Accessory to murder”, they’ll go away... "

Might have better luck with civil lawsuits- failure to provide adequate security.

17 posted on 12/13/2007 8:11:20 PM PST by matthew fuller (The destruction of the CIA tapes was indubitably intentional obstruction of treason.)
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To: matthew fuller

It’s TIME for the civil lawsuits to begin.


18 posted on 12/13/2007 8:22:35 PM PST by Luke Skyfreeper
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To: AnAmericanMother
He also noted that two hired security guards not only refused to use their weapons, but refused to give them to parishioners who were begging for them to return fire.

So now it's not even OK for armed guards to shoot someone who needs shooting? Why the hell are they armed? In case someone unarmed dares question their authority? What a bunch of pansies. Should be tatooed with a vagina on their foreheads and have their weapons confiscated as well as all the money they've earned as armed security.

19 posted on 12/13/2007 8:27:01 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: neverdem

Only in the latest attack did an adult have a right to a gun to defend herself and others.

I take issue with that statement in the article. Did everyone else give up their right to own a weapon?

Also, I can find no sentence in the 2nd Amendment where it states we must pay for that right. Some here will say it is for the training, or the right to carry concealed, but I do not agree with that premise. I see a CCW permit as another avenue to deny a person their right nder the 2nd.

BTW- I prefer open carry.

20 posted on 12/14/2007 12:36:40 AM PST by Sarajevo (You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: matthew fuller

Might have better luck with civil lawsuits- failure to provide adequate security.

And end up with a cop on every corner, observation camera's on every street, or UAV's flying overhead? No thanks...

21 posted on 12/14/2007 12:39:52 AM PST by Sarajevo (You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

“He praised Ms. Assam’s coolness and courage under fire.”

I heard him talking about it on Monday morning. He did indeed praise her and call her a heroine. He talked about how she just kept on walking straight towards the gunman and as she did she continued to fire. He said he had never seen such courage,and then he added “and I was in Vietnam”.


22 posted on 12/14/2007 3:12:43 AM PST by Mila
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To: Still Thinking
“Should be tattooed with a vagina on their foreheads”

You might want to rethink that. I believe the one that dropped the perp had one. Albeit in a different location. :)

23 posted on 12/14/2007 3:33:08 AM PST by DaveArk
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To: Still Thinking
I think they were paralyzed by indecision.

"If I shoot, what's gonna happen to me? If I don't shoot, what's gonna happen to me?"

May never have fired their weapons except at a range.

. . . but that being the case, they are in the wrong business.

I should think those two jokers will have to change their names and leave town.

24 posted on 12/14/2007 3:37:22 AM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Mila
She had the Holy Spirit.

Psalm 23:4 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

25 posted on 12/14/2007 3:38:55 AM PST by DaveArk
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To: DaveArk

I was thinking the same thing.


26 posted on 12/14/2007 4:00:49 AM PST by seemoAR
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To: matthew fuller
Not sure that'd work. What the gun grabbers are doing is deprivation of civil Rights under color of Law. They do this KNOWING that more innocent people will get killed.

This makes them directly and uniquely culpable.

27 posted on 12/14/2007 5:28:00 AM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: grellis

MI ping.
normally i complain that our legislatures keep passing bills before they finish with all the budget bills... but this is one that’s more important.


28 posted on 12/14/2007 6:09:43 AM PST by absolootezer0 (white male christian hetero married gun toting SUV driving motorcycle riding conservative smoker)
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To: neverdem
Every school teacher, professor, administrator, and school board member in our country should read John Giduck's book Terror at Beslan.

I believe it's not a matter of "if", but "when", terrorists attack a school here. That whackjob at Virginia Tech already showed how easy it would be.

29 posted on 12/14/2007 6:19:41 AM PST by Hat-Trick (Do you trust a government that cannot trust you with guns?)
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To: Springman; sergeantdave; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; queenkathy; ...
Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

If you would like to be added or dropped from the Michigan ping list, please freepmail me.

I completely agree, abs0--important, necessary. For whatever reason, I've had this feeling that MI schools are a ticking bomb for this kind of preventable massacre. I just don't think our legislature has the brass ones needed to do anything about it.

30 posted on 12/14/2007 6:25:01 AM PST by grellis (Is this the best we've got??!)
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To: Sarajevo

In Missouri we have both.


31 posted on 12/14/2007 6:36:22 AM PST by painter (Oval Office, Fred. Might be something you ought to think about.)
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To: neverdem

This is why MSM started up that inane babble about the perp offing himself. Can’t have any suggestion that armed citizens are any good for anything.


32 posted on 12/14/2007 6:38:08 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: DaveyB

My church meets in a school as well. As I understand it, on Sundays, when we are the tenant, being a church overrides it being a school.


33 posted on 12/14/2007 6:38:43 AM PST by cyclotic (Support Scouting-Raising boys to be men, and politically incorrect at the same time.)
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To: neverdem; AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...

Thanks neverdem.


34 posted on 12/14/2007 8:56:48 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Monday, December 10, 2007____________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Sarajevo

No, I think the writer meant that once those civil suits begin the states and local authorities may tend to relent on allowing guns in schools etc., rather than pay out more for UAVs and cameras on the street corners.

If anyone in my family is ever killed or injured in a “gun free” zone, you can bet your ass I’ll file a massive lawsuit against the state, and probably feds for disallowing (assuming it is a school zone) weapons on citizens.

An Armed citizen with a gun, is better than a cell phone and 911...


35 posted on 12/14/2007 9:35:59 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: Sarajevo
"And end up with a cop on every corner, observation camera's on every street, or UAV's flying overhead? No thanks... "

No, just allow me to provide my own. If and when I am disallowed to provide my own CCW, then the agency (retail establishment, concert, airport- whatever) is then responsible for my security.

36 posted on 12/14/2007 9:58:57 AM PST by matthew fuller (The destruction of the CIA tapes was indubitably intentional obstruction of treason.)
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To: Dead Corpse
"Not sure that'd work. "

Trust me, the fear of lawsuits is a great motivational "stick", in many cases moreso that fear of prosecution for breaking a law. Many management decisions are made with civil lawsuit avoidance at the forefront of the decision-making process, as opposed to complying with a public law.

37 posted on 12/14/2007 10:06:29 AM PST by matthew fuller (The destruction of the CIA tapes was indubitably intentional obstruction of treason.)
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To: neverdem

38 posted on 12/14/2007 10:10:21 AM PST by bmwcyle (BOMB, BOMB, BOMB,.......BOMB, BOMB IRAN)
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To: DaveArk

Nothing against vaginas per se. Many of my very favorite people have them, and I’m grateful. It’s just that the colloquial for the organ is a moniker that might fit these two to a tee. The actual heroine, in contrast, did hers proud.


39 posted on 12/14/2007 11:47:26 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: neverdem

Just like in Israel.

There are as many school shootings in Israel as there are shootings at the average shooting range, none.


40 posted on 12/14/2007 11:49:39 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: neverdem
The GOP ought to jump on that idea in every state, shall issue in the states not yet shall issue and allowing teachers concealed carry.

I hate to say this, but in the overwhelming majority of cases arming teachers is a bad idea. I wouldn't carry. At least not on my person. I work at one of the most violent inner city schools in the area. We've got MS13 operating within blocks of the school. I wouldn't mind having a secure arms room in my vicinity and let me have access, but truly it would negate the teaching value to be armed at all times. I say this with 18 years on the job. However, it is very handy to have teachers fresh from the military, with combat experience.

In all my years as a high school teacher, I've never once felt threatened by one of my students. I've been "tried" by other students but that was only a test of mettle and not an actual "force on force" situation. They wanted to see if I was willing to go toe to toe and not back off. If my body was capable of cashing any checks written by my mouth. Once I showed a willingness to step up, they always backed off. ALWAYS. I attribute this to a matter of "bearing." The military folks here know what I mean. My body language, demeanor and posture simply assert without speaking that not only can I take care of any situation that presents itself, I will do so. I can't think of a single situation that would have been improved by the presence of an armed teacher. Situations like an active shooter (aka Colombine) notwithstanding. For situations like that I'd recommend access to an arms room.

41 posted on 12/15/2007 1:12:28 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ExSoldier
Situations like an active shooter (aka Colombine) notwithstanding.

That's just what I'm talking about. If a teacher wants to carry concealed, it would be a voluntary arrangement. But gun-free zones are just stupid in that they are ignored by crazies and criminals. An arms room would just be a target, IMHO.

42 posted on 12/15/2007 2:20:02 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem
An arms room would just be a target, IMHO.

Well, I wouldn't advertise it's existence. In fact I could see several secret arms lockers scattered around the building. Secret (as in hidden and secure), small enough for a couple of carbines including optics and a couple of handguns with spare mags.

43 posted on 12/15/2007 2:28:17 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: neverdem
We see the sign, "Gun-Free Zone."

A killer sees, "Shoot-Free Zone."

44 posted on 12/16/2007 7:51:18 PM PST by pray4liberty (The Truth sinks people whose only recourse is lies.)
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To: DaveyB
If he had decided to shoot us there would have been no one legally allowed to shoot back.

In that case, maybe it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.

45 posted on 12/16/2007 7:52:50 PM PST by pray4liberty (The Truth sinks people whose only recourse is lies.)
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To: matthew fuller
Might have better luck with civil lawsuits--failure to provide adequate security.

I like your solution. High time we woke up to it.

46 posted on 12/16/2007 7:54:45 PM PST by pray4liberty (The Truth sinks people whose only recourse is lies.)
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