Posted on 12/14/2007 8:41:13 AM PST by cogitator
Otherwise known as carbonate ion.
Seriously, I do not understand what they are actually measuring.
Carbon dioxide is C0^2, that that is two atoms of Oxygen attached to a single Carbon atom.
? No. I think you need to learn some chemistry first.
You are correct, but I was hoping someone other than myself would explain this to our other Freepers.
Sometimes, I say things that are rather stupid, in an effort to get someone else to show exactly why I was wrong.
The cartoon that you made me look at makes no mention of equilibria.
But Wikipedia present a reasonably simple demonstration of the effect of buffering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_acid)
For example, an atmosphere with 350 ppm CO2 over water will produce a pH of 5.65. If that is tripled to 1000 ppm CO2, the water will indeed increase in acidity...to a pH of 5.42 (negligable change). Likewise if we engage in Algore’s wet dream and decrease atmospheric CO2 to 100 ppm, the pH rises to 5.92.
But over this whole range (100 ppm to 1000 ppm CO2) the carbonate ion concentration changes by 0.7%. Your cartoon is incorrect in that it suggests that more CO2 will result in less carbonate ion...the opposite is true, but the reality is that more CO2 will have only a negligable effect.
The biological effects of algae or pollution would be far more significant. Local temperature variations (El Nino, etc) would also play a larger role. But blaming coral death on a carbonate ion shortage, from MORE CO2, is laughable.
From a first grader’s book:
Experiment #1
Begin the experiment “Acid Rain on the Reef” by discussing acid rain. Then explain to the students that chalk contains limestone just like the coral reefs. Explain to the students that this experiment will show how acid rain can harm the reef. Explain that each group will be given two pieces of chalk, which will represent the coral reef, a cup containing a vinegar/water mixture, which will represent the acid rain, and a cup of fresh water. The students will place a piece of chalk in each cup. Using a marker, students will write “acid” on the vinegar/water cup. Students will store cups overnight. Students will predict what will happen to the chalk in each cup.
From my own personal aquariums, I know that this is absolutely false.
I was hoping that other Freepers would help explain why this was impossible.
See my post above.
Experiment #2
Begin the experiment Acid Rain on the Reef by discussing acid rain. Then explain to the students that chalk contains limestone just like the coral reefs. Explain to the students that this experiment will show how acid rain can harm the reef.
Explain that each group will be given two pieces of chalk, which will represent the coral reef, and two cups of saltwater.
The students will place a piece of chalk in each cup. Using a marker, students will write acid on one of the cups.
With the cup labled as "acid", the student will exhale into the cup and infuse it with Carbon dioxide from the student's breath.
Students will store cups overnight. Students will predict what will happen to the chalk in each cup.
The big lie of climate change cultists is that all species must remain exactly as they are and remain at 2007 levels forever. This has never been the case. The Earth warms, the Earth cools, new species appear, old species vanish. It has ever been so. If the coral dies, it will grow somewhere else, or a different organism we have yet to see will take its place. What is so nuts is that the most fervent "environmentalists" seem to have the least knowledge of how the environment actual functions.
This is the most ridiculous science conclusion ever.
Coral evolved in a time when CO2 levels were hundreds of times higher than today (possibly as high as 20,000 ppm.)
500 million years ago, CO2 levels were 7,000 ppm versus today’s measly 380 ppm. The ocean at the time was completely dominated by shell-based lifeforms like trilobites and amonites and corals.
Ridiculous (but story completely bought hook line and sinker by the global warming advocates.)
The seawater alkalinity system, largely (but not completely) due to the carbonate equilibria, is why this happens.
Don't bother telling me; email your report to the authors.
And please reply with their verbatim response.
Corals don’t live in fresh water.
On another subject, I loved hearing about your early years of obtaining satellite data.
In 1972, I had to place the path of the TIROS satellite on a polar projection of the Earth with a clear plastic template. Overlaid over my location on the Earth, was another plastic template, which could be used to figure out the azimuth and elevation. I would then write down the azimuth and elevation of the satellite for each minute that is would pass over my location.
Each minute, I would manually move the antenna to it's predicted position.
An oscilloscope would draw a line across it's screen, in response to the signal from the satellite. A Polaroid camera would record what was being shown on the oscilloscope.
If you did everything perfectly, you could actually locate a major storm over the United States.
35 years later, I am still doing the same thing.
Correction: increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration has measurably changed the pH of surface waters and the saturation state of surface waters with respect to calcium carbonate.
You need to find and read this reference:
Feely, R.A., C.L. Sabine, K. Lee, W. Berelson, J. Kleypas, V.J. Fabry, and F.J. Millero (2004) Impact of anthropogenic CO2 on the CaCO3 system in the oceans. Science, 305, 362366.
Abstract: Rising atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations over the past two centuries have led to greater CO2 uptake by the oceans. This acidification process has changed the saturation state of the oceans with respect to calcium carbonate (CaCO3) particles. Here we estimate the in situ CaCO3 dissolution rates for the global oceans from total alkalinity and chlorofluorocarbon data, and we also discuss the future impacts of anthropogenic CO2 on CaCO3 shell-forming species. CaCO3 dissolution rates, ranging from 0.003 to 1.2 micromoles per kilogram per year, are observed beginning near the aragonite saturation horizon. The total water column CaCO3 dissolution rate for the global oceans is approximately 0.5 ± 0.2 petagrams of CaCO3-C per year, which is approximately 45 to 65% of the export production of CaCO3."
Here's a complete list of Dr. Feely's publications:
You might also want to check out Contribution 2726.
Totally outside of anything that can happen on the Earth, but as a test of the buffering abilities of saltwater, an experiment that I may perform.
In all honesty, I have no idea what the pH results would be. You got me rather curious.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.