Skip to comments.Colorado Heroine May Have Been Legally Prevented from Using Beretta as Security Guard
Posted on 12/16/2007 10:43:41 AM PST by marktwain
Jeanne Assam, the heroine of the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, would likely have been unable to carry the Beretta that she stopped the shooting with if she had been a licensed security guard.
An AP article published on 12 December noted that licensed security guards in Colorado Springs are restricted to the use of revolvers.
As Jeanne Assam was a volunteer parishioner who was performing security guard duties because the church did not want to hire mercenaries, she was almost certainly not affected by the regulations, which only apply to government regulated security guards.
Fortunately, her lack of official status with the state and city allowed her to carry a firearm with sufficient firepower to accomplish the necessary task.
Jeannette had to fire 10 rounds to keep her fellow parishoners safe.
“I Love my 2 1/8” S&W 640 a wrist breaker, I am old.”
It will sting a good bit without gloves, but is certainly manageable.
“Try it at night”
Actually, you are both right. It doesn’t depend on the gun as much as it depends on the ammo. Ammo with flash suppressant powder doesn’t have much flash, even from a short barreled .357.
I’ve shot Corbon .357 at night, all you get is a dull orange ball about the size of a grapefruit.
If the ammo does not have flash suppressant powder, however, a .357 at night can blind you like a flashbulb!
Compensators direct more of the flash upward, rather than out, so an intensely flashing round with blind you more than with a non-compensated barrel.
If the powder is flash suppressed, however, it won’t make a lot of difference.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not being critical of the 9mm luger. It’s the caliber I choose for concealed carry. In fact, I think it’s the best choice. For several reasons. First off, it’s cheap and easy to find. It’s small enough they can make very small handguns chambered for it for concealed carry. 40 S&W is quite a bit better than 9mm, but it is barely better than 9mm +P. I don’t think it’s worth the upgrade.
And like I stated in an earlier post, 9mm luger +P actually outperforms 357mag in very short barrels.
Shoot until they drop.
Well, Cowpoke, as usual you have nailed it!!!.
Far better that no marginally proficient CCW holders were present!!!
One shooter killing people was more than enough.
Hell, if three or four other CCW's opened up, there mighta been NO-ONE left standing.
My daughter had problems with it with .38’s, I use Hydroshocks, .357. It is my primary self defense gun, small, easily carried, and if you can’t hit them the muzzle flash will scare them off.
I practice at an underground range where I can dim the lights. The 31C doesn’t present any special problem. It depends mostly on the load and powder. My 6 inch 44 is like a flashgun going off with that UMC yellow box 180gr stuff!
Interesting, since FWIU the cylinder is not counted in the barrel length of a .357mag revolver, but the chamber is counted in the barrel length of a .357sig auto.
That’s what took out Sean Taylor.
Exactly! And even tight revolvers can put a good flash out the gap between the forcing cone and cylinder, but that and the compensated blast is small compared to what comes out the front. You can sometimes find out which loads are going to be low flash by checking comments on line, but if you’re serious about it you need to test them in your gun in low light to make sure they’ll work for you.
Is the Corbon you’re talking about the stuff they recommend for snubbies?
Nope, Rugers 454s are 6 shooters.
Ya wanna talk about muzzle flash, fire the Blackhawk 30 carbine. The flash goes out 18 inches!
If she’d have been using .357 Mag she wouldn’t have needed 10 rounds anyway.
I can imagine. I used to have TC with a 14” 30-30 barrel. I didn’t reload so I used standard ammo in it.
WOW, bet that was a fun way to start a camp fire! :)
“The word is “implying”. It’s the one who is reading or hearing something that does the inferring. Furthermore, you can infer something without its ever having been implied.”
You are absolutely correct. I should have used “implying”.
However they make a very nice I use it in my S&W 642CT carry
Corbon make ammo for all makes and models.
Especially for defensive use
110g .38 Spl +p 1200fps using the DPX bullet.
However they make a very nice
I use it in my S&W 642CT carry
But if you REALLY want to stop ‘zombies’ with a .38 snubby ya gotta use Buffalo Bore ammo http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#38spl
My post was somewhat of a joke BUT I have found that the CorBons do not work as advertised in my P3AT. Zero expansion.
I use Silver Tips as that is what my personal testing has shown to be best penetrating and expanding. Now that Buffalo Bore is making .380 I am planning on giving them a try.
I already use their Heavy 45LC loads for hunting.
The article explains two things.
First, her Beretta is most likely in 9mm, a lethal round, but it is known for it’s insufficient stopping power.
Second, that the State of Colorado is run by a bunch of nannies who are afraid that armed guards might actually be armed.
Not part of the CRS (Colorado Revised Statutes)= It looks like a local, city or county ordnance.
There is no state law covering the topic.
What is being discussed in the article is a CITY ordinance for the city of Colorado Springs.
There is no state law covering the topic.
Unless you are intending to run over him with an Abrams. Then 12 fps. is quite effective if he is only about 6 feet away.
Isn’t that “shoot till they stop (moving) or start decomposing”.
Sorry, I should have been more clear, I did state that the restriction was a City or County Ordinance, but I also stated that I thought that Colorado Government had become a Nanny State. Those statements should probably not have appeared together. I still believe that the State and its subdivisions are moving rapidly toward an over regulated system designed to make California Transplants feel more at home.
I bought a 92FS for my son. Best gun I ever bought. I’d target shoot against any pistol with it-ANY pistol.
It seems that practicing at a range is way different than being in a situation where someone’s shooting at you. And from what I read, she was approaching the shooter while firing.
I’ve never been in a situation where my life was in danger while shooting at a target. However, I have participated in shooting sports where stress is involved, specifically bowling pin and USPSA competitions. In some of those USPSA matches, there were somewhat stressful situations and in many cases, we had to engage targets while we were moving. We used to joke that one of our range masters was planning to start a match by hitting us with an electrical cattle prod. I understand how difficult it is to hit your target while under stress. And it’s even more difficult to do so while you’re moving. And, as I said, I did this knowing that I was in a controlled, safe environment.
And it’s a known fact that the vast majority of “well trained” people in her situation fire far more rounds than actually hit the target. It’s unfortunate, but true. Of course, I’m talking about both military and law enforcement here.
You would be blinded by the flash.
That hasn't been my experience shooting at dimly lit ranges... Maybe it depends more on the powder and load used. But I've shot pistols with compensators for many years on relatively dark ranges, where the only light down range was a spotlight on the target, and it wasn't all that bright.
So how many gunfights have you won, Cowboy?
The city ordinance may have been put in place to provide
CO Sps Police with after hours work
True, however most states which have a legal requirement for liscenced security personnel to be armed with a revolver further specify that said revolver be no more powerful than a .38 Special, which is totally inadequate. (When I went through training for the Commonwealth of Virginia as a security officer, this was the case, and I suspect Colorado's statutes read similarly, if not identically.)
Yes, highly effective. Since an Abrams weighs at least 60 tons, it makes for a really good impact.
The down side is that an Abrams is rather large to be a good weapon for CCW.
Doesn't emptying the magazine into attacker #1 mean that one will be unarmed against attacker #2?
The Lord protected her in more ways than one.
Absolutely correct. My wife infers things that I never implied all the time. I've often used the old Barry Farber line "Please do not infer what I did not imply.
The femoral artery runs up the inside of the thigh. It carries lots of blood. Open it and you have a high probability of a fast bleed out.
I do have a Glock 23C (40 S&W). For rapid fire engagement, it is probably my best firearm for a quick follow up shot. The comp limits the muzzle rise. It cycles best with 165 gr ammo.
It’s shop until you drop.
Shoot until they drop.
Or maybe Christmas has warped my brain.
I forgot to say what I’m shooting at the present.
S&W 29 6” 44 Mag: Federal 300gr Hardcast
S&W 686+ 4” 357 Mag: Federal 180gr Hardcast or Federal 125gr SJHP
Glock 31C 357 SIG: Winchester Ranger 125gr
SIG Sauer P239 9mm: Federal HST 124gr
As long as your 629 is a -3 or higher you really shouldn’t have a problem with “shooting it loose”.
I'll have a look next time I drag it out for a range run. I also have the 6 1/2" PP model. Last time I shot that one, a small fragment zipped through the tip of my left ear. The stinging and sticky feel of blood all over my ear was completely unexpected. I had to open the action one handed to keep the blood off the firearm. Fortunately, my wife was in the lane next to me. She watched my revolver while I headed off to the men's room to deal with the mess. That kind of "oops" is a harsh reminder of the value of good shooting glasses and hearing protection that covers your ears instead of just using ear plugs.
I don’t shoot much of the hardcast; they’re for bears, which we have in great numbers around here. My 29 is one of the last of the regular production blued ones a 29-6. I wouldn’t mind having a .454 to shoot, but I probably wouldn’t carry anything larger than the 44.
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