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Official: Three dead in chemical plant explosion [In Jacksonville, Florida]
CNN ^ | 12/19/2007 | CNN

Posted on 12/19/2007 11:11:12 AM PST by Tulsa Ramjet

..developing.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: chemicals; explosion
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To: PAR35

I meant commercial nukes. But you’re right. Although I was never in the Navy, I worked with enough of them such that I should have thought about that.


51 posted on 12/19/2007 12:56:13 PM PST by wolfpat (If you don't like the Patriot Act, you're really gonna hate Sharia Law.)
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To: Norman Bates

it is t2labs.com they make gas additive
news is reporting they were mixing something for either ink solvent or something for paint....

building is leveled—not all people accounted for

jacksonville.com
firstcoastnews.com
news4jax.com
fox30online.com


52 posted on 12/19/2007 12:56:30 PM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: Red Badger; thackney

it’s not jea
see my previous post


53 posted on 12/19/2007 12:57:34 PM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: tutstar

Shades of Apex;
http://charlotte.injuryboard.com/toxic-hazardous-substances/thousands-evacuated-in-apex-chemical-fire.php


54 posted on 12/19/2007 12:59:26 PM PST by wolfpat (If you don't like the Patriot Act, you're really gonna hate Sharia Law.)
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To: Little Bill

***Who is the person watching the amperage on the Pulverizers?***

Pulverizer amps have nothing to do with it. When the coal feeder runs out of coal the feeder trips. Then the pulverizer trips on no ignitors at low loads.

The Primary hot air then backs up into the feeder and into the silo unless there is coal in the silo throat to stop it. No coal in the silo means the hot air can ignite the coal dust and....Kaboom.

It is the coal handler’s job to make sure there is coal in the silos.


55 posted on 12/19/2007 1:06:34 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: wolfpat

they are only evacuation 1/2 mile radius

?


56 posted on 12/19/2007 1:06:59 PM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: A. Morgan
That had to be a pretty good hit, relays are set up to trip you, up or down based on conditions over time, generally very short, a couple percentages of unit speed, CPS plus amperage drop.

The best one was when I was BSing with the Control Room Supervisor. We were cruising a long at 350 MW on a hot summer night and some Customer, had his heart broken and gave a 345 line a Monica.

57 posted on 12/19/2007 1:12:04 PM PST by Little Bill (Welcome to the Newly Socialist State of New Hampshire)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Everyone that has operated a Coal Fired Boiler KNOWS that you have to balance the Amperage among the pulverizers in service, work in vs work out. The secondary air provides propulsion and a drying effect to the coal and provides O2 for a fire.

Nothing guarantees that the instrumention is going to work. I spent five years as an an I&C supervisor If it can fail it will. The reason you have an operator in the room is to make sure it does not happen.

58 posted on 12/19/2007 1:53:07 PM PST by Little Bill (Welcome to the Newly Socialist State of New Hampshire)
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To: All

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/19/florida.explosion/index.html

Chemical Plant Blast...... Three confirmed dead


59 posted on 12/19/2007 2:02:15 PM PST by deport (---14 days Iowa Caucuses--- 19 days New Hampshire vote s--- [ Meanwhile:-- Cue Spooky Music--])
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To: Little Bill

***Everyone that has operated a Coal Fired Boiler KNOWS that you have to balance the Amperage among the pulverizers in service, ***

Not so on this unit. Here we have B&W MPS-89 pulverizers with STOCK feeders, and amps depend on the particular load we have on that particular mill. Right now I am carrying lower loads on the top burner mills with lower amps because I don’t want to slag up the reheat area.
Lower mills are carrying higher loads with higher amps due to the heavier coal input into them.

B&W Boiler, 528 MW right now. Six mills in service.


60 posted on 12/19/2007 2:22:01 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: Little Bill

What type pulverizers do you use?


61 posted on 12/19/2007 2:24:50 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Lower mills are carrying higher loads with higher amps due to the heavier coal input into them.

What does the answer that you gave me tell us about our argument? What would give you an indication that one of your Mills was failing aside from load and secondary air temperature, The first indication?

I am retired and haven't done coal in years, we used Foster Wheeler, Penn, and CE.

If you don't have tilts not a bad way to do it, if you can get the damned stuff below fusion, the secondary Superheater still takes a beating, but it most give you a good handle on NOX control if the tuning is correct.

62 posted on 12/19/2007 3:01:53 PM PST by Little Bill (Welcome to the Newly Socialist State of New Hampshire)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

If you read the story at the link I provided, you would see that there was a fire at a power plant in MINNESOTA on Tuesday night.

Merely for coincidence value....that’s all...


63 posted on 12/19/2007 3:26:26 PM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo (Merry Christmas!)
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To: poobear

Across the street from power plant. Not related.


64 posted on 12/19/2007 3:29:30 PM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: Tulsa Ramjet
News 4Jax.com: 4 Killed, 13 Injured In Explosion, 3-Alarm Fire - updated 6:29pm

/jasper

65 posted on 12/19/2007 3:55:16 PM PST by Jasper (Stand Fast, Craigellachie!!)
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To: Little Bill
***What does the answer that you gave me tell us about our argument? What would give you an indication that one of your Mills was failing aside from load and secondary air temperature, The first indication?***

It is obvious to me that we are talking about different types of pulverizer and boiler systems. Mine is a B&W Drum type negative pressure natural circulation water wall boiler.

We do not have tilting burners so upper and reheat temps are controlled by loading the top burner mills with less loading, thus less amps.

To tell if one of our pulverizers is malfuncitoning we have people checking them hourly for anything wrong. In the control room I have amp gages, differential air gages Primary air flow and temp gages and secondary air gages along with feeder controls.

To see if something is amiss I look at the amps vs feeder loading (High amps vs low feeder load) for each mill. Then Primary air (low air flow vs feeder load) and mill air temp.
I then check the HEAT RELEASE vs fuel flow. A dropping heat release means am not getting enough fuel into the boiler. It may be a partial feeder pluggage, a slipping feeder belt or low Btu coal. If it is a big rock it will jam the feeder and trip it, then the mill.

An very rapid increase in HEAT RELEASE means I have bogged a mill and it is now blowing out excessive coal into the boiler. Very dangerous, possibility of a boiler explosion exists.

Finally each pulverizer has it’s own characteristics. One may run with a higher amp load than others at the same feeder load. Certain others may bogg or puff while starting up. I know my mills, which ones will bite you in the butt and which might (notice I said “might”)not.

And if any of these run out of coal, the hot PRIMARY air leakage will back up through the feeder and into the silo possibly causing a hopper explosion. We have to send a man to the feeder floor to close the gate between the hopper and the feeder.

66 posted on 12/19/2007 4:37:32 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: Calpernia

bump


67 posted on 12/19/2007 9:06:04 PM PST by Velveeta (Duncan Hunter, 08' !!! The real conservative.)
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To: ButThreeLeftsDo

To confess, my link was kind of acting funny earlier, and I was having trouble pulling up links to news sources. For some reason FR was working fine.


68 posted on 12/19/2007 9:34:41 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
I am not going to argue with you my FRiend, I haven't fired coal in a long time, but the problems that you can run into stick in the mind and along with the cause.

I spent 40 years as an, Operator, Supervisor, Start up Engineer, Shift Supervisor, and Shift Manager for Comm Electric, NSTAR, Sythe, Exelon, General Electric, Wheelabrator, and several private developers. I have done Coal, Oil, Natural Gas, Biomass, and Trash.

I have also hired and trained about 10 crews and reviewed the hiring of five more, I am not doubting your ability, every plant is different.

69 posted on 12/20/2007 12:22:45 PM PST by Little Bill (Welcome to the Newly Socialist State of New Hampshire)
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To: Little Bill

***I am not doubting your ability, every plant is different.***

Agreed! Every plant is different.


70 posted on 12/20/2007 1:08:13 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
As a nasty aside, where is your floor guy on 11-7?
71 posted on 12/20/2007 1:22:33 PM PST by Little Bill (Welcome to the Newly Socialist State of New Hampshire)
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To: Little Bill

***..where is your floor guy on 11-7?***

I gusee I am missing the meaning of what you mean.


72 posted on 12/20/2007 6:57:53 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: ButThreeLeftsDo; milford421; Velveeta; Calpernia

Minn. Explosion in post #33 and other up dated posts to this thread follow it.


73 posted on 12/21/2007 6:26:39 AM PST by nw_arizona_granny (I vote to outlaw hidden links in articles. If the URL is worthy of clicking, then show it.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
I don't want to bust your nads, I love Power Plant Talk. I also spent my whole life in the trade of making electricity, I was in Maintenance, I&C, Operations, and Electrical, I loved it, the most fun you can have standing up.

I also recognize the problems that can exist in an organization, even the best run, and from all of the EPRI reports that I have read over the years there can be a few, even among the Sainted Nukes.

One of the biggest problems that A Control Room Operator has is getting timely information. The DCS provides much but the floor guy, with experience, can anticipate, based on experience, what might happen. The CRO, if the floor guy is correct or if he isn't and is acting on a hunch, can monitor that parameter and pass it on up the line

I have looked at a lot of places where the floor guy does a horizontal eight on the 11-7 and the CRO takes it in the butt because he didn't notice a obscure alarm.

74 posted on 12/21/2007 10:02:20 AM PST by Little Bill (Welcome to the Newly Socialist State of New Hampshire)
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To: Little Bill

***I have looked at a lot of places where the floor guy does a horizontal eight on the 11-7 and the CRO takes it in the butt because he didn’t notice a obscure alarm.***

I get your meaning now. We have different terms for the “floor guy”. We have found it is the coal yard that does the Horizontal eight (twelve now since they don’t get enough sleep at home) most of the time. the rest are usually in the control room when they are not taking care of the bottom ash or demineralizer, and general walk downs.

We recently switched to a twelve hour rotating shift. It is killing us. Days off are great though.

My biggest problem is the company has promoted people with aabsolutly no CRO experience to supervision and we have taken it in the butt as a result.
One person promoted to Shift Supervisor twenty five years ago retired with the honor of loosing the unit more than anyone because of his general stupidity. When he was promoted years ago it caused half of the “unit attendants”(floor guys) to walk out.

Equal dubious promotions have been made in the last few years which have caused people at other plants in the company to wonder “What is going on there?”


75 posted on 12/21/2007 9:12:58 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
I know what you are saying brother, I think that you have a Supervision problem.

In a lot of places I have been around it works like this. Coal Yard Supervisor (Or Lead Hand), Floor Supervisor (Or Lead Hand), Control Room Supervisior (Or Lead Hand), Shift Manager, coal plants have a lot of troops and lots to look at.

I worked the 12's for a lot of years, which is not bad it you are base loaded, it can suck really bad if you do a lot of start ups.

This is going to sound odd, but there was a method to the insanity and I never liked Floor guys messing up my Control Room.

I am known as a Natural Night Guy, I Liked Working Nights. I also never carried Keys, a Radio, a Cell Phone, or any other method of communication out side of the plant page system. I also got bored easily and liked to wander around at odd hours, if I needed a question answered I called the CRO or the Supervisor and asked him to get the floor guy, to open a door, to answer why the conductivity was high, ETC, ETC.

The CRO and Supervisior knew I was covering their asses and alerting them to possible problems, another problem that was solved was the direction came from Guy operating the Unit or the Supervisor, not me, I was just curious.

What can you do to improve the situation, you cared enough about what I said to jump in my sh*t, allowed. Any Idiot can be an Engineer and manage equipment, to manage people is another skill that has to be learned and it is hard, you have no friends, but they are people and deserve the respect THAT THEY DESERVE. I have taken thousands of hours of leadership courses, most are Bull Shit, the essential is: treat people as they would like to be treated, common manners, take no excuses.

76 posted on 12/23/2007 11:57:08 AM PST by Little Bill (Welcome to the Newly Socialist State of New Hampshire)
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