Posted on 12/19/2007 7:58:52 PM PST by RedRover
The defense for a Marine accused in the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians said Wednesday it wants to depose a Pennsylvania congressman to determine whether a general told him that the accused and his squad killed in cold blood.
Jack Zimmermann, an attorney for Lance Cpl. Stephen B. Tatum, told judge Lt. Col. Eugene Robinson that he also wants a deposition from Gen. Michael Hagee, former commandant of the Marine Corps now retired, to find out what he may have said to Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., and to Marines serving in Iraq.
Zimmermann said outside a Camp Pendleton courtroom that he is concerned about possible tainting of the jury pool among Marines at Camp Pendleton who've deployed to Iraq.
Tatum, 26, whose court-martial is scheduled to begin March 28, is charged with involuntary manslaughter, reckless endangerment and aggravated assault for his role in the deaths of the civilians in Haditha, which took place on Nov. 19, 2005, after a Marine was killed in a roadside bombing.
Women and children were among those killed by the Marines.
If convicted on all three charges, Tatum faces 19 years in the brig.
Zimmermann said Murtha, a former Marine who is an outspoken opponent of the Iraqi war, refused to be interviewed because squad leader Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich -- who is charged with unpremeditated murder in 17 of the deaths -- filed a defamation lawsuit against him last year.
"Murtha said (during several media interviews) he was briefed at the `highest levels' that Marines (in Tatum's squad) committed murder, killed in cold blood ... it was another My Lai," said Zimmermann.
My Lai was the site of the killing of more than 300 apparently unarmed Vietnamese civilians by U.S. soldiers in 1968.
"Could these be construed as political rantings?" the judge asked the defense attorney.
"Murtha said, 'I was briefed by the commandant of the Marine Corps,'" Zimmermann responded.
The attorney urged the judge to order depositions by Murtha and Hagee.
"We don't think there's any congressional immunity here," Zimmermann said. "We want to ask General Hagee, Did you tell him (Murtha) that? Where did he get this? Is he making it up?"
Prosecutor Maj. Daren Erickson asked the judge to allow prosecutors to travel to Iraq to obtain depositions from some witnesses to the killings, including several children.
Erickson said the witnesses have refused to come to the United States to testify in the case.
Robinson didn't rule on any motions today. Another motion hearing for Tatum in scheduled Jan. 9.
Eight Marines were originally charged in the case, but charges were dropped against half of them.
Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani, the battalion commander and highest-ranking Marine charged, is scheduled to stand trial April 28. He is charged with dereliction of duty and violating a lawful order for failing to report and accurately investigate the deaths.
Lt. Andrew Grayson is charged with dereliction of duty, making a false official statement and obstruction of justice.
We TRIED to depose him in the last election, but look where THAT got us...
He needs to be disposed of.
Can he kick his fat butt first?
Well, this should be interesting... Thanks for the update. Still praying for all involved.
Thank’s for the ping RR.
Murtha is a stupid old man who said what was spoon-fed to him to say. His deposition is essential, particularly if it reveals who the “brains” were behind his statements.
You’re welcome, del! It’s good to see you!
Good luck to Lance Cpl. Tatum! The higher ups are looking for
someone to throw under the train. Them First!
I’m liking this Zimmerman
It's like Patches Kennedy crashing his car into the barricade at the Capitol building. He just had to say "I'm going to a vote" and he's free. Same thing.
To be added to the Murtha Watch ping list please notify myself or RedRover.
Murtha is a corrupt S.O.B., who eats more pork from the defense budget than anyone else in DC, all the while he villifies the troops.
There’s another interesting tidbit here, too.
The prosecution wants to go to Iraq to depose witnesses, because “Erickson said the witnesses have refused to come to the United States to testify in the case.”
So, what kind of a trial would it be if only the prosecution is allowed to cross examine the witnesses? The defense should certainly not permit them to do that. It would not be enough for the defense to depose the witnesses; they need to be able to cross examine them in front of the jury.
I suspect these “witnesses” don’t want to come to the U.S. to give their stories because they are afraid what will happen when they are caught lying. We’ve seen plenty of those kinds of witnesses in Iraq and for that matter all over the Muslim world. Allah instructs them to lie; it’s right in the Koran. Mohammed lied several times under oath, and was proud of himself for doing it.
I seem to remember Zimmerman from the Waco hearings, a Marine if I’m not mistaken. I have an aversion to lawyers but it seems that the defense of these Marines has brought the handful of honorable ones to the forefront.
"Mr. Zimmermann served 14 years on active duty in the Marine Corps, including duty as the commanding officer of two artillery batteries in combat, where he earned two Bronze Star medals for heroism and the Purple Heart for wounds in action. He served for 16 years as an officer in the Marine Corps Reserve, including duty as the commanding officer of the infantry battalion headquartered in Houston. He retired in 1994 as a colonel, and was presented the Meritorious Service Medal for his final assignment as a felony court-martial judge."
ping
He obviously doesn’t give a rat’s ass about Marine Moms.
God forgive but I truly hate Murtha. I really truly believe the man is in dire need of testing for dementia. He needs to deploy himself to a nursing home asap.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I like the hat.
This guy has proven over and over that he is willing to say anything for political gain, and more importantly, that he will not honor the oath he took as a Marine Corps officer or as a congressman. Do we really think that putting him on the stand and making him swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth would suddenly make him honest?
I would love to see it happen, but I don’t think we’d get nearly as much out of it as we would like. Now, perjury charges, that might get us somewhere.
I think you’re right, but hope you’re wrong!
Harharharharharharhar!!!!!!!!!!!!
Murtha needs to be “porked” in the Pocketbook.
What a complete tool.
Lord, he’s just a kid.
Man, this Zimmerman is the bee's knees!
THE Z MAN!!!!!! GET 'ER DONE!!!!!!!!!!!
IANAL, but I believe that even political statements are only covered under Congressional immunity when they are made in the course of conducting the business of his office.
And, speaking of not giving a rat's ass about Marine moms...
Lt Gen Helland is leaving the Wuterich family to twist in the wind over Christmas. There's been no decision regarding SSgt Wuterich's court martial. Scuttlebutt is that there may be no decision until after the LCpl Tatum hearing in March.
If anyone wants to leave a message of goodwill for the family, or put a donation in the SSgt Wuterich defense fund, click on the picture link below...
That's the only way to get him. And I bet if he sees danger to his bank account, he'll begin squealing like a pig.
Hmm...He does look like an old, wasted Ned Beatty ...
This is fantastic! Get every last one of these scumbags on the record.
Do you suppose that a JAG-appointed defense attorney would take this route, or is it more likely he would simply be a messenger boy for the prosecutor, obediently delivering and ecouraging plea deals?
Fortunately, Zimmermann is a tough old bastard he won’t let this go. See his bio above. He served as a Marine artillery officer in Vietnam.
I agree with your interpretation. I just wonder if the Judge does? It takes some nerve for a judge to do that, and while some are tough as nails, there are a lot who won’t make a bold call,
Oh, PS...I think the General’s testimony would be more relevent. But I’d love to see Murtha have to depose in this trial. He did a lot to ruin any pool of jurists. Is there a jury in a Court Martial?
Great news that they are not afraid to fight this to the end.
Interesting. I once had a CO who was also a Marine artillery officer in Vietnam.
His name was Major Tom McCarthy.
I’d pay to watch Murtha deposed.
Whoa... I just read Jack Zimmerman’s bio and it sounds to me like JAG is way overmatched here. Mr. Zimmerman may be a little uncomfortable about this case, though - - it is said that, “There is no client as scary as an innocent man”. I am pretty sure that Jack Zimmerman will give this case everything he’s got, and more. For Mr. Zimmerman and his client, there is no verdict except “Not guilty”.
Excellent. Thanks for the PING, Red!
But I won’t. ;^)
Yeah, Shelayne, I know what you mean.
Many thanks again Red for thinking of us. I guess it will probably be another year, or more, before we can say we had a holiday we could enjoy. We appreciate all you have done and continue to do for us. Please, everyone, keep us all in your prayers. The going is tough! Hope Murtha rots in hell for all the anguish he has caused.
>Prosecutor Maj. Daren Erickson asked the judge to allow prosecutors to travel to Iraq to obtain depositions from some witnesses to the killings, including several children.<
How’s that for a little nugget of stink? This legal eagle wants to gather more disinformation straight from the mouths that have already changed their stories numerous times.
Yeah, real good thinking among the JAGoffs. Lets go ask the enemy what they’d prefer our version of reality be in regards to these Marines.
What is it with these morons?
The herd needs culling, desperately.
LCpl Tatum is a hero and Turda is a Traitor.
Pray for W and Our Troops
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