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Paul: Country is moving toward fascism
The Hill ^ | December 23, 2007 | Klaus Marre |

Posted on 12/23/2007 6:44:53 PM PST by AmericanMade1776

White House hopeful Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) said Sunday that the U.S. is moving toward fascism, stating that corporations are increasingly “running the show” and citizens are being deprived of their liberties.

Paul clarified that he did not refer to the type of fascism that Adolf Hitler practiced in Germany. “We’re not moving toward Hitler-type fascism, but we’re moving toward a softer fascism,” Paul said on NBC’s Meet the Press. “Loss of civil liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed with big business.”

The lawmaker said the U.S. is moving toward “corporatism.” He also lashed out at a system in which those are criticized as unpatriotic who do not support the war in Iraq or the Patriot Act.

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 911truth; endorsedbydu; imacommieronnie; moveondotorgcampaign; pauliistinian; repealsocialism; ronpaul; thedailykoscandidate
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To: inkling

hope he sinks like a lead zeppelin..


101 posted on 12/23/2007 8:00:06 PM PST by RDTF (Remember Pearl Harbor)
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To: sgtyork

“And others can draw the conclusion from this nexus of neo-nazis and truthers that a candidate presents a danger to the centrist, freeom-loving, body politic.”

Take a population (say the US),and you are going to have a wide range of views in the individual vote-sheep. I guess it is like a bell curve, though I bet a surprising number of people’s views would resemble fascism if they were given a detailed political philosophy inventory (sort of an MMPI for political views), and a surprising number would come out far more libertarian than the body politic represents.

At any rate, you are going to have small fringe groups that openly identify themselves outside of the mainstream accepted views. This can be racism, marxism, and any number of other ism’s almost none of use would like to subscribe to.

As far as I can tell, Paul is the only candidate whose philosophy is ‘I don’t care what you think or believe, if you mind your own business and don’t break the law/hurt anybody.’ Nevermind that the worldview of many of these fringe donors is actually contrary to Paul’s own philosophy - if they are stupid enough to send him money, he will take it.

Note that I am not saying all of his contributors meet that description, as you know well individual candidates don’t see who sends contributions and you can take ANY major candidate’s donor list and find people convicted of any number of crimes who are donating. That is a gotcha game.


102 posted on 12/23/2007 8:11:26 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: AmericanMade1776

He could hang around with Cynthia McKinney and the Green Party. She might even throw him out.


103 posted on 12/23/2007 8:13:18 PM PST by BobS (Did Santa just say haha, HO ?!)
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To: WoofDog123

Are they more responsive to market needs of Pharmaceutical companies

Perhaps, but at the same time they have become more responsive to the health care market needs of the consumer. We lead the world in advances in therapeutic medications. And yes pharma ceos - and top-level chemists , physicians and biologists are becoming wealthy.

The number of OTC drugs has certainly been convenient. Has it helped the pharma companies as well?

Not just convenient - it has reduced the costs to the consumer. —While at the same time perhaps increasing profits to the pharma companies. I believe in market capitalism and this is an example of the government getting out of the way (as you would advocate) for a win-win.


104 posted on 12/23/2007 8:14:07 PM PST by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: WoofDog123

But when David Duke tried to make himself a Republican he was shown the door.


105 posted on 12/23/2007 8:15:26 PM PST by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: AmericanMade1776
If you and your man, Ron Paul do not like the Republican Party, then why don’t you get out of it?

Instead of destroying what the Republican Party stood for -- for about 135 years -- why don't you neo-cons go start your own party?

106 posted on 12/23/2007 8:15:41 PM PST by xrp (Ron Paul: The RIGHT way to vote for freedom.)
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To: sgtyork

Thanks for your answer.

I generally agree with your statements.

Speculative question - if this were disadvantageous to pharma companies (for whatever reason), would it still be happening? I realize the FDA has long been criticized for being slower than its european counterparts regardless of pharma company opinions.


107 posted on 12/23/2007 8:17:23 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: AmericanMade1776
Please let me help you rewrite your post:

No... the Jury is in, and Ron Paul is a NUT.

Despite the fact that Mr. Paul has the highest rating of all Congressman by the National Taxpayers Union (84%) I can not support him for POTUS because I don't agree with his foreign policy

American Taxpayers Union Congressional Rankings for 2006

There. Much better.

108 posted on 12/23/2007 8:17:43 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Larry Lucido
Country is moving toward fascism...

In the film JFK, Kevin Bacon played a homosexual prostitute who said the same thing.

109 posted on 12/23/2007 8:19:19 PM PST by Petronski (Willard Myth Romney: 47% negatives)
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To: AmericanMade1776
"...George Soros has contributed to Ron Paul"

I had never heard that before, so I did a FReep search and found this...

Final Proof that Ron Paul is obtaining money from George Soros! Free Republic Thread Dec 1 2007

110 posted on 12/23/2007 8:20:56 PM PST by GregoTX (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.)
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To: sgtyork

Yeah, despite there being black politicians who are just as racist in the DNC. White racists and black racists are not equal.

Regardless, an new, openly racist white pol isn’t gonna be allowed in. A libertarian who apparently is not racist but just believes it is not the government’s business is a different issue, particularly when he has held a congressional seat for decades.

If Paul espoused some of Duke’s more inflamatory views, he would be gone from the GOP in a most celebrated fashion, resembling the trent lott birthday comments for Thurmond, (which I really don’t believe merited comment, much less the public crucifixion of Lott. He was trying to say something nice at the party of a 100-year-old guy who may not have been cognizent of it anyway.)


111 posted on 12/23/2007 8:22:13 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: Petronski
In the film JFK, Kevin Bacon played a homosexual prostitute who said the same thing.

"You don't know nuttin' about pow-ah missah Garrison cause you never been (censored) up the (censored)!

I have a Kevin Bacon score of 1, as I was in a scene in Sex and the City with Sarah Jessica Parker, who was in Footloose with Kevin Bacon.

112 posted on 12/23/2007 8:26:09 PM PST by Clemenza (I NO Heart Huckabee)
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To: RDTF
"hope he sinks like a lead zeppelin.."

Doesn't he play Led Zeppelin in his bus real loud?

113 posted on 12/23/2007 8:26:26 PM PST by BobS (Did Santa just say haha, HO ?!)
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To: AmericanMade1776
This is the Houston Chronicle: “Representative Ron Paul has long crusaded against a big central government. But he also” “represented a congressional district that’s consistently among the top in Texas in its reliance on dollars from Washington.

One of many examples of Saddam Paul's utter hypocrisy.

114 posted on 12/23/2007 8:28:09 PM PST by Allegra (HOME for the Holidays! Merry Christmas to my "family" back in Iraq.)
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To: inkling

LOL
That made my day.


115 posted on 12/23/2007 8:28:49 PM PST by winstonwolf33 (One more word about global warming from you, I'm gonna stick a carbon footprint up your ass.)
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To: tips up
I'm no Paul fan. I watched him on MTP this AM and found his arguments and positions to be very conservative and constitutional.

I was surprised by the image the "MSM" has given me and what he claims to be for. He might be worth a second look.

I have the broadcast saved on DVR if needed.

Merry Christmas

116 posted on 12/23/2007 8:28:57 PM PST by theymakemesick (End welfare and the crops will be picked)
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To: traviskicks; AmericanMade1776
REP. PAUL: We have to cut spending. You can't get rid of the income tax if you don't get rid of some spending.

But not on wild shrimp. We can't cut spending on wild shrimp.

117 posted on 12/23/2007 8:30:41 PM PST by Allegra (HOME for the Holidays! Merry Christmas to my "family" back in Iraq.)
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To: inkling



118 posted on 12/23/2007 8:36:15 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: AmericanMade1776
To all

I love how these clowns throw the word Fascism around.
Have any of them actually gone and read Fascist tracts from the 1920s & 1930s? A good place to read these Fascist political tracts is at “www.oswaldmosley.com”. After you read them, the political part that comes to mind, that advocates policies much closer to Fascism (At least Oswald Mosleys’s flavor of Fascism!)is not the GOP !

All Paul is, is another pseudo-intellectual crank this time masquerading in libertarian clothing. Aside: Fascism was quite fashionable in the salons of Europe after WWI. The intellectual elite were attracted to either Fascism or Socialism, but rarely freedom. It still seems the case today!

119 posted on 12/23/2007 8:42:41 PM PST by Reily
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To: AmericanMade1776

Rather ironic comments coming from a man who is beloved by neo-Nazis, Klansman and white supremacists in general.


120 posted on 12/23/2007 8:51:30 PM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: WoofDog123; Jabba the Nutt
“It’s a controversial statement, but it is also a true statement.”

"The signal-to-noise ratio on this thread is quite low, but you are one of the few voices of reason.

Those screaming various insults are not actually debating the points made, with a few exceptions. This inability to rationally address points reflects poorly on the quality of people contributing to this forum, but it probably provides some insight into the mindset of the general GOP membership as well.

Of course the classic is simply attacking posters for saying anything remotely in agreement with Paul’s statement, without addressing the statement as well."

I haven't finished reading the rest of the thread, but I had to stop here to say thank you for your posts! I was beginning to wonder if I was on FR or a government cheerleading site. I honestly am amazed at the reaction here, when conservatives typically (unlike lefties) have some skepticism of government, and understand how important it is to be vigilant in regard to our freedom and individual rights. To me this thread is sad, very very sad.

121 posted on 12/23/2007 8:51:45 PM PST by incindiary
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To: Freedom4US

You are way too perceptive ...


122 posted on 12/23/2007 8:54:37 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Iscool
Re: your post 36, it would be 1992 all over again. Perot split that vote, I voted for him and will NEVER regret it. I was informed and aware of the issues and think he would have the best president of the choices we had. If the so called "Repuplicans" don't align with my philosophies, so be it. I'll vote 3rd party or sit it out. I voted for Peroutka last time and it didn't even get a single mention on the election returns by the local "reporters". I truly believe my vote was stolen, I live in a 'sanctuary city' where that sort of thing could happen (Houston).

Let me see, the MSM is touting as "republicans" Trudy Juliani, Mitt Romney, 1st ammendment McCain, Huckleberry Hound. No thanks, I'll sit it out and let this ignorant electorate get the government it deserves! I'm tired of it.

123 posted on 12/23/2007 8:55:55 PM PST by theymakemesick (End welfare and the crops will be picked)
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To: AmericanMade1776

“Ron Paul foes not belong in the Republican Party.”

Which Republican Party is that? There seem to be a few these days. Politics is not one dimensional anymore...ie left and right


124 posted on 12/23/2007 9:03:42 PM PST by cowtowney
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To: South40
Ron Paul exposed

That site makes timecube.com look downright intellectual.

125 posted on 12/23/2007 9:09:58 PM PST by jmc813 (Bill Belicheck likes Ron Paul)
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To: AmericanMade1776

“We now, the federal government, takes over and rules—overrules state laws where state laws permit medicinal marijuana for people dying of cancer. The federal government goes in and arrests these people, put them in prison with mandatory, sometimes life sentences. This war on drugs is totally out of control.”

Do you agree or not agree with this statement?


126 posted on 12/23/2007 9:10:10 PM PST by cowtowney
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To: AmericanMade1776
If you and your man, Ron Paul do not like the Republican Party, then why don’t you get out of it?

We'd rather stick around and try and get rid of you big-government Bush types from the party. Besides, it's fun watching you people freak out.

127 posted on 12/23/2007 9:14:09 PM PST by jmc813 (Bill Belicheck likes Ron Paul)
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To: Petronski
In the film JFK, Kevin Bacon played a homosexual prostitute who said the same thing.

Well I'm convinced since a wackjob hollywood actor said that in a MOVIE.

Again, I'm not a RP fan, but OPEN YOUR MIND.

128 posted on 12/23/2007 9:17:45 PM PST by theymakemesick (End welfare and the crops will be picked)
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To: weegee

you don’t think big business has big government in it’s pocket? The way i see it, they work hand in hand with each other. Look at immigration. Do you honestly think that big corporations want the border closed? what about all those cheap janitors, vegetable pickers for big agribusiness and construction workers and nannies for the families of executives?
Now Paul saounds weird sometimes, but on that point, he is right. Special interests, including big business, own Washington. Little people like us don’t count.


129 posted on 12/23/2007 9:25:39 PM PST by ChurtleDawg (kill em all)
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To: SpaceBar
I’m not a Ron Paul fan but I agree completely with his statement. We are fast turning into the United Socialist States of America Inc. if not already there.

I agree that we're going in that direction. That doesn't seem to be a problem for some here, apparently. Perhaps it's the word 'fascism' that throws people off here. If he would've said socialism, then I don't see how anyone could disagree with that.

I think the problem is, many people on both sides, conservatives and liberals, are still stuck in the idea that it's all about Democrat vs Republican, or left vs right... when the reality is, the new political paradigm is more like up vs down. What I have been saying for years is that there are globalists who are in both major parties, and these people are taking us towards something that will be bad for everyone.

I think people here are getting all bent out of shape, but we're really arguing about semantics. Whether it's socialism, fascism, or any type of unfree system... we can divide it into 2 groups - collectivists and people who believe in individual rights. We are heading in the wrong direction, away from individual rights. That's the point. Whether it's fascism or socialism-corporatism, or whatever you want to call it, we should be vigilant.

Remember the quote when someone asked what type of government we have... and the answer was, "A republic, if you can keep it." We're getting to the point where we're not keeping it. Some here may disagree, but to bash someone so vehemently who cares about protecting our freedom, and constitution and rights is downright surreal to me, and it's ugly and sad.

130 posted on 12/23/2007 9:26:12 PM PST by incindiary
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To: AmericanMade1776

sorry, Ron may be anti war but on every other issue he is far to the right of the Greens. He wants to virtually eliminate 80-90% of the Federal Government


131 posted on 12/23/2007 9:27:12 PM PST by ChurtleDawg (kill em all)
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To: muawiyah

I would argue that the Federal reserve is unconstitutional. No where in the constitution does it give private banks the right to control monetary policy. Thomas Jefferson himself warned that giving bankers that kind of power would be a recipe for disaster

Their policy of hyperinflation of currency has virtually ruined the dollar. Before 1913 and the Federal Reserve Act, the currency was stable and prone to little inflation. Since then there has been constant inflation


132 posted on 12/23/2007 9:30:41 PM PST by ChurtleDawg (kill em all)
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To: AmericanMade1776

“It is not just a suspicion, it is fact, George Soros has contributed to Ron Paul”

Source, please, or is this just MORE hot air???


133 posted on 12/23/2007 9:32:55 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: traviskicks
RP:"I want a constitutional-size government."

Yep. The man is just insane. = )

134 posted on 12/23/2007 9:47:31 PM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: theymakemesick
I'm no Paul fan. I watched him on MTP this AM and found his arguments and positions to be very conservative and constitutional. I was surprised by the image the "MSM" has given me and what he claims to be for. He might be worth a second look.

The best interview I have seen Paul give was with Glen Beck, last week: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rlc/1941544/posts
135 posted on 12/23/2007 9:48:10 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: Steve_Seattle

I think he meant FR...


136 posted on 12/23/2007 9:50:23 PM PST by endthematrix (He was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of crap to me.)
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
Ron Paul doesn’t even belong in the Libertarian Party.

The original LP - sure.

America as a "Corporate-fascist warfare-welfare state": quite common back then. Don't know about the LP today.

The fascist part goes back to FDR days. Mussolini was fulsome in his praise for FDR's economic interventions.

137 posted on 12/23/2007 9:57:29 PM PST by secretagent
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To: incindiary
Perhaps it's the word 'fascism' that throws people off here. If he would've said socialism, then I don't see how anyone could disagree with that.

People tend to forget that the most prominent Fascist governments were Socialist

Nazis were more properly the National SOCIALIST German Workers Party.

The USSR was the Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics.

Even Mussolini was basically a socialist.

Once the government has control of the population by socialist policies (such as taking fully 50% of workers income) The country is fertile ground for fascism.

Yes, the country that takes 50% of workers income is the U.S.

138 posted on 12/23/2007 10:39:44 PM PST by Prokopton
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To: WoofDog123
My thoughts on the political philosophies of Madison, Hamilton (Who created the Federal Reserve Bank), Jefferson, Franklin and Washington in comparison to Ron Paul vs. George Bush, is that all of them would have been much closer to Bush on Middle East Policy than with Paul.

When Paul discusses domestic issues and fiscal policy he is, for the most part, pretty good. When he discusses American history and our foreign policy moves of the past 60 years, he is as poorly informed as Huckabee.

Paul doesn't understand Korea and the Korean War, he doesn't understand Vietnam and the Vietnam war, nor does he understand why Nixon was elected (hint, it was not to end the war, it was to win the war in Vietnam).

He understands nothing about the War Against the Global Islamic Jihad, nothing about Afghanistan, about Iraq, about Somalia, about Iran, about Israel...basically he lacks any grounding in foreign policy or the history of our involvement world wide. Had he been in office during the Cold war, we might all be fighting Soviets in a Red Dawn scenario with his sadly naive, Chamberlainesque attitude about foreign leaders and foreign policy.

Since the primary function of the government (by libertarian standards) is the protection of our rights to property and our sovereignty as a nation, he inability to grasp the patently obvious automatically disqualifies him for the Presidency.

None of his domestic agenda would ever be passed by congress and his foreign policies and protectionist atitudes would destroy our economy and our nation.

I won't even go into the damage he would do to our economy if he was, by some ironic twist of fate, able to return us to the "gold standard." Such an act would make the great depression look like a New Year's Eve Party.

The man is looney tunes-nutso-Daffy Duck "Woo-Hoo-Woo-Hoo" crazy...and therefore vewy vewy dangewous.

I can honestly say I would rather vote for Obama than for Paul. "Better the devil you know..." At least I could predict his actions.
139 posted on 12/23/2007 10:41:39 PM PST by Sudetenland (Liberals love "McCarthyism," they just believe he was targeting the wrong side.)
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To: AmericanMade1776

ron Paul is right about the country moving toward fascism, but he’s got the wrong perpetrators. It’s the leftist elite and and top industry leaders who are forming the coalition to control the economy and the tax payers, not the right wing. The right wingers don’t have what it takes to control much of anything.


140 posted on 12/23/2007 10:45:16 PM PST by Eva
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

While I have my differences with Ron Paul, I cannot help but wonder why he is attacked even when he is right....

Anyone who is blind to the truth behind this statement (that the US is moving toward fascism) is blind. Have we not called the liberals known as the Democrat Party of being as much? Is our country not seemingly moving farther left into fascism?

Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
3. Oppressive, dictatorial control.


141 posted on 12/23/2007 10:56:06 PM PST by TheBattman (LORD God, please help us to elect a Godly and patriotic man for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: Prokopton

Reg. post 138 - Exactly. And that was a point I was trying to make, but I don’t think I made that clear in my last post. Thank you.


142 posted on 12/23/2007 11:04:48 PM PST by incindiary
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To: AmericanMade1776
Ron Paul also supported by White Supremacist.

Pretty silly statement, so was Bush.

143 posted on 12/23/2007 11:07:51 PM PST by niki
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To: Eva
ron Paul is right about the country moving toward fascism, but he’s got the wrong perpetrators. It’s the leftist elite and and top industry leaders who are forming the coalition to control the economy and the tax payers, not the right wing. The right wingers don’t have what it takes to control much of anything.

I don't want to speak for Paul, but I think you misunderstood him. He's not pointing the finger at the right, I don't think he's blaming one side or the other. The fact is, there are politicians in both major parties who are phonies - they call themselves Democrats or Republicans but they're actually globalists. I know that this sounds like conspiracy theory stuff to some, but I think what we're heading towards (I'm not saying this is in the near future, but it seems to be the direction we're going) is a socialist-corporatist, authoritarian world government. The bottom line is, it's getting away from our foundation, the constitution, and individual rights, and also national sovereignty.

144 posted on 12/23/2007 11:25:51 PM PST by incindiary
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To: Sudetenland

thank you for a very well composed answer. I will reserve more detailed comments until I wake up!


145 posted on 12/23/2007 11:47:01 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: Steve_Seattle

Did he say that the president was the one doing the criticizing?


146 posted on 12/23/2007 11:52:04 PM PST by truthfreedom
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To: AmericanMade1776

I happen to support Ron Paul. My second and third choices would be Thompson and Hunter. My fourth choice would have to be McCain.

I think that some of the critics of Ron Paul here on Free Republic should probably have focused their energies over the last few months on contributing to their favored candidates and/or volunteering for their favored candidates. I know that my 2nd and 3rd choices are the 1st and 2nd choices of Free Republic.

It’s unfortunate for conservativism that people here (supporters of Hunter and Thompson) have made the strategic decision to focus all their energies at coming up with clever nicknames for Ron Paul, to call him a kook, to speculate on the effect of a 3rd party Ron Paul run, etc, etc, instead of working hard for Duncan Hunter and Fred Thompson.

Back in the day, Free Republic was mighty. Free Republic’s candidates won. Free Republic kept the Clinton’s in check.
I would have thought that the mighty Free Republic could have been able to help Duncan Hunter in some real tangible way.

I guess criticism of Ron Paul didn’t help Duncan Hunter as much as some thought.


147 posted on 12/24/2007 12:13:53 AM PST by truthfreedom
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To: AmericanMade1776

Ron Paul is moving towards insanity.


148 posted on 12/24/2007 12:15:27 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: stockstrader

I think Paul supported mandatory term limits - those that applied to everyone, not optional, or voluntary term limits - pledges from a candidate that he/she would only serve a set number of terms.

Mandatory term limits didn’t pass. He didn’t pledge to limit the number of terms he himself would serve.

I understand how extraordinarily complex those ideas are, and I’m sure that you (and Russert) won’t be confusing legally mandated term limits (which Paul supports) with optional or voluntary term limits.


149 posted on 12/24/2007 12:24:52 AM PST by truthfreedom
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To: stockstrader
*****I’d MUCH rather have corporations running the show rather than liberal, government bureaucrats.****

Corporations and liberal, government bureaucrats work hand in hand to eliminate the small businesses.

Government regulators, inspectors, etc. can kill a small business, but might lose their jobs if they go after a big business.

E.g., 30-40 years ago, most gasoline stations were mom and pop operations. Today, well over 50% are corporations. One reason gas costs about $3 per gallon today is the concentration in the oil industry. The big companies might take a public view of opening up Anwar, but really they want to keep the supply of crude tight and the cost high. If they really wanted it opened, they would be able to buy enough politicians to make it happen. How many Americans really give a crap about some area that maybe 100 people visit every year?

Today, 4 Waltons are in the top 10 richest Americans, but Walmart pays their employees a very small wage. Back in the 70’s, Sears was the largest retailer in the US, but they paid a lot of their employees the equivalent of $15 per hour today, plus benefits.

If you are not over 50 years old, you probably don’t realize how far our country has gone down.

150 posted on 12/24/2007 3:32:50 AM PST by jmeagan (Our last chance to change the direction of the country -- Ron Paul)
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