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Paul: Country is moving toward fascism
The Hill ^ | December 23, 2007 | Klaus Marre |

Posted on 12/23/2007 6:44:53 PM PST by AmericanMade1776

White House hopeful Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) said Sunday that the U.S. is moving toward fascism, stating that corporations are increasingly “running the show” and citizens are being deprived of their liberties.

Paul clarified that he did not refer to the type of fascism that Adolf Hitler practiced in Germany. “We’re not moving toward Hitler-type fascism, but we’re moving toward a softer fascism,” Paul said on NBC’s Meet the Press. “Loss of civil liberties, corporations running the show, big government in bed with big business.”

The lawmaker said the U.S. is moving toward “corporatism.” He also lashed out at a system in which those are criticized as unpatriotic who do not support the war in Iraq or the Patriot Act.

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 911truth; endorsedbydu; imacommieronnie; moveondotorgcampaign; pauliistinian; repealsocialism; ronpaul; thedailykoscandidate
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To: AmericanMade1776
Hey, if Ron Paul does go 3rd Party, he'll drain enough votes from your Rinos that they won't even be able to compete against Kucinich...

I'll vote for Duncan Hunter in the primary...And if he doesn't win, I'll write in Pat Buchanan since I wasted my vote on Bush the last two times instead of voting for Buchanan...

51 posted on 12/23/2007 7:18:21 PM PST by Iscool
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To: AmericanMade1776

That was a good one. Not to mention Paul total hyprocrisy when asked about Reagan and term limits. To paraphrase an old liberal saying,,,”If it wasn’t for DOUBLE STANDARDS...Paul wouldn’t have any”!


52 posted on 12/23/2007 7:18:43 PM PST by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will UNITE the Party, not a liberal who will DIVIDE it!)
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To: AmericanMade1776

REP. PAUL: You got it completely wrong. I’ve never voted for an earmark in my life.

MR. RUSSERT: No, but you put them in the bill.

REP. PAUL: I put it in because I represent people who are asking for some of their money back. But it doesn’t cut any spending to vote against an earmark. And the Congress has the responsibility to spend the money. Why leave the money in the executive branch and let them spend the money?

MR. RUSSERT: Well, that’s like, that’s like saying you voted for it before you voted against it.


53 posted on 12/23/2007 7:19:05 PM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776
Ron Paul exposed
54 posted on 12/23/2007 7:19:26 PM PST by South40 (Amnesty for ILLEGALS is a slap in the face to the USBP!)
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To: AmericanMade1776
Together at last. Clown Pinko and the Klansman.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
55 posted on 12/23/2007 7:20:20 PM PST by cripplecreek (Only one consistent conservative in this race and his name is Hunter.)
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To: AmericanMade1776

MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask you about drugs and go back again to your ‘90—’88 campaign and see where you stand today. “All drugs should be decriminalized. Drugs should be distributed by any adult to other adults. There should be no controls on production, supply or purchase for adults.” Is that still your position?

REP. PAUL: Yeah. It’s sort of like alcohol. Alcohol’s a deadly drug, kills more people than anything else. And today the absurdity on this war on drugs, Tim, has just been horrible. We now, the federal government, takes over and rules—overrules state laws where state laws permit medicinal marijuana for people dying of cancer. The federal government goes in and arrests these people, put them in prison with mandatory, sometimes life sentences. This war on drugs is totally out of control.


56 posted on 12/23/2007 7:20:49 PM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: Jabba the Nutt

“It’s a controversial statement, but it is also a true statement.”

The signal-to-noise ratio on this thread is quite low, but you are one of the few voices of reason.

Those screaming various insults are not actually debating the points made, with a few exceptions. This inability to rationally address points reflects poorly on the quality of people contributing to this forum, but it probably provides some insight into the mindset of the general GOP membership as well.

Of course the classic is simply attacking posters for saying anything remotely in agreement with Paul’s statement, without addressing the statement as well.


57 posted on 12/23/2007 7:21:18 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: AmericanMade1776

As usual, Ron Paul is about half right. Conservatives have long noted that the form of government favored by big-government liberals is similar to fascism in practice. It is the government in charge, though, and the idealogues. The big corporations go along, and become cheerleaders for the whole mess, which gives a superficial appearance that they are in control. Actually, they are gutless and amoral, and will go wherever government threats and the money lead them.

Von Mises called the economic situation under fascism or national-socialism “Zwangswirtschaft,” or forced economy. It was successful under Hitler by comparison with fully socialist systems because it did not involve dismantling all the means of production, or killing all the skilled people (as in the collectivizations under Stalin).

The fascist regimes in Europe varied by country, but strictly speaking Hitler’s was not a fascist regime. It was national-socialist, and there was a big difference. It was atheistic in tendency. Fascism in Spain was pro-clerical, and so was the movement of Codreanu in Romania, and of Englebert Dollfuss in Austria. The later was assassinated by the followers of Hitler, although he had been supported by Mussolini.

Mussolini was a former socialist, and was rather anti-clerical himself, but he did not persecute the Catholic church for political reasons, and came to terms with the Vatican. One could say, then, that fascism occupied a southern belt, with Nazis to the north. The racial theories were characteristically prominent in Nazi ideology to the north, and included the policy of Aufnordung (promotion of Nordics) which would have been inappropriate to the south of Austria.

All fascist and national-socialist regimes were anti-individualist, like modern American “liberalism.” At every turn, liberals are in favor of eroding rights for the greater good: abortion (which means no rights for the unborn), gun-control, high-taxation, restrictions on free speech (lest it cause “discomfort” within the masses), interfering with the market to “protect the environment” or to manage medical care or to control the weather, rigging of elections, &c. About the only feature which separates today’s American liberals from fascists is that the liberals are generally anti-religious, or at best are affiliated with liberalized sects like (for example) the UCC. Comparing the two, the fascists begin to look good, because at least they resisted communism, which the liberals generally did not (as, for example, in the Vietnam War). Except on defense, liberals should never complain too much about fascism, because it is quite similar to their own way.


58 posted on 12/23/2007 7:21:42 PM PST by docbnj
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To: AmericanMade1776
So glad you libertarians are showing up,

Well, we would hate to dissapoint... :)

would you please take Ron Paul, to your party?

I am a libertarian by philosophy, not party and the Republican party has about 20% if not more libertarian minded persons, so I think Paul is right at home as a Republican as he's been for the past 20 years (with the exception of the one year hiatus). And one would think the Republican party base would cheer the only candidate who says stuff like this:

Dr. Paul, welcome to MEET THE PRESS.

REP. RON PAUL (R-TX): Thank you. Nice to be here.

MR. RUSSERT: Let's start right at the very top, the issues. This is what you have been saying on the campaign stump, "I'd like to get rid of the IRS. I want to get rid of the income tax." Abolish it.

REP. PAUL: That's a good idea. I like that idea.

MR. RUSSERT: What would happen to all those lost revenues? How would we fund our government?

REP. PAUL: We have to cut spending. You can't get rid of the income tax if you don't get rid of some spending. But, you know, if you got rid of the income tax today you'd have about as much revenue as, as we had 10 years ago, and the size of government wasn't all that bad 10 years ago. So there're sources of revenues other than the income tax. You know, you have, you have tariff, excise taxes, user fees, highway fees. So, so there's still a lot of money. But the real problem is spending. But, you know, we lived a long time in this country without an income tax. Up until 1913 we didn't have it.

MR. RUSSERT: But, but you eliminate the income tax, do you know how much lost revenue that would be?

REP. PAUL: A lot. But...

MR. RUSSERT: Over a trillion dollars.

REP. PAUL: That's good. I mean, we--but we could save hundreds of billions of dollars if we had a sensible foreign policy.

MR. RUSSERT: Well...

REP. PAUL: And if you go--if you're going to be the policeman of the world, you need that. You need the income tax to police the world and run the welfare state. I want a constitutional-size government.

MR. RUSSERT: Would you replace the income tax with anything else?

REP. PAUL: Not if I could help it. You know, there are some proposals where probably almost anything would be better than income tax. But there's a lot of shortcomings with the, with the sales tax. But it would probably be slightly better than the income tax--it would be an improvement. But the goal is to cut the spending, get back to a sensible-size government.

59 posted on 12/23/2007 7:21:59 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: AmericanMade1776

MR. RUSSERT: I was intrigued by your comments about Abe Lincoln. “According to Paul, Abe Lincoln should never have gone to war; there were better ways of getting rid of slavery.”

REP. PAUL: Absolutely. Six hundred thousand Americans died in a senseless civil war. No, he shouldn’t have gone, gone to war. He did this just to enhance and get rid of the original intent of the republic. I mean, it was the—that iron, iron fist..


60 posted on 12/23/2007 7:22:05 PM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776

>> MR. RUSSERT: When I looked at your record, you talked about big government and how opposed you are to it, but you seem to have a different attitude about your own congressional district.

That would be one more good reason to retire ElRon from the Congress!

(I think that his goose is already cooked as a candidate for POTUS.)


61 posted on 12/23/2007 7:23:19 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Retire Ron Paul! Support Chris Peden (www.chrispeden.org))
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To: AmericanMade1776

What are your thoughts on the political philosophies of James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, George Washington, to name a few? How do they compare with Ron Paul’s views, or with George Bush’s?


62 posted on 12/23/2007 7:23:22 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: muawiyah

It’s not that the Fed doesn’t maintain influence, it’s that the amount of credit/debt in the system outside of US M3 and UK M4 is now appreciably more than any adjustment the Federal Reserve Banks can deal with using the tools at their disposal. So at the edges, where the action is, the Fed Banks no longer have any real influence.

US$7.4 trillion in the M2, banks have off balance sheet losses approaching 1.5% of the M2, SO FAR. The vehicles for the losses were partially off balance sheet, not reported to the Fed Reserve, the total value of the vehicles were also off balance sheet. Yet the banks were injecting credit into the market with the offbalance sheet values.

I never studied this enough, I suggest checking out shadowstats for more info regarding this.


63 posted on 12/23/2007 7:23:37 PM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: AmericanMade1776

MR. RUSSERT: George Herbert Walker Bush, this is according to Ron Paul: “`Bush is a bum,’ Paul wrote in” “November” 15th, “1992 issue of his newsletter, the `Ron Paul Political Report.’” And asked about the current President Bush, whether he voted for him in 2004: “Paul says no: `He misled us in 2000.’” Asked if he voted for Bush in 2000. No, “`I didn’t vote for him then, either. I wasn’t convinced he was a conservative.’” And actually, in 1987, you submitted a letter of resignation to the Republican Party: “I therefore resign my membership in the Republican Party and enclose my membership card.” If Reagan’s a failure, Bush 41 is a bum, and you didn’t vote for Bush 41—41’s a bum and 43 you didn’t vote for, and you resigned from the Republican Party, why you running as a Republican candidate for president?


64 posted on 12/23/2007 7:24:43 PM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776

Before you go, Mike Huckabee, Republican candidate for president, ran this commercial for Christmas and many thought that the shelf in the back looked like a cross. You were asked about it on CNN and this is what you said.

REP. PAUL: It reminds me of what Sinclair Lewis once says. He said when fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross.


65 posted on 12/23/2007 7:24:59 PM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: cripplecreek; All

That Picture is photo shopped!!! /s


66 posted on 12/23/2007 7:25:01 PM PST by KevinDavis (Mitt Romney 08, WE ARE NOT ELECTING A PASTOR-IN-CHIEF!)
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To: AmericanMade1776
How nice one of the looney tune Ron Paul supporters has shown up! Takes a lot of nerve to step forward and defend Ron Paul. Bash the Republican party.... and WOULD YOU PLEASE TAKE RON PAUL OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.... WE DON'T NEED YOU..OR HIM.

So, what did I state that was loony? I posted the truth.

Telling the truth about the Republican Party is not bashing it...unless you're one of those super-sensitive types, ya know, like the Muslims who cry racism because there are no footbaths for them.

Sure, the Republican Party doesn't need libertarian minded people -- as it continues to suffer attrition as it pursues the neo-con agenda and will continue to lose elections. Good luck with that game plan!

67 posted on 12/23/2007 7:25:23 PM PST by xrp (Ron Paul: The RIGHT way to vote for freedom.)
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To: AmericanMade1776

if you disagree with Paul, why not push for repeal of the 21st amendment as well?


68 posted on 12/23/2007 7:25:48 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: AmericanMade1776
it is fact, George Soros has contributed to Ron Paul

Source? (you won't find one cuz it's not true)
69 posted on 12/23/2007 7:27:22 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: Liberty Valance

Who is that? ( I recognize the guy on the left, he was in Wings back in the 70s)


70 posted on 12/23/2007 7:27:28 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: xrp

If you and your man, Ron Paul do not like the Republican Party, then why don’t you get out of it?


71 posted on 12/23/2007 7:27:30 PM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776; All

So he liked Reagan once, hated him in the 80’s and now like him????


72 posted on 12/23/2007 7:28:19 PM PST by KevinDavis (Mitt Romney 08, WE ARE NOT ELECTING A PASTOR-IN-CHIEF!)
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Ron Paul
The only candidate supported by Marxists and Nazis.


73 posted on 12/23/2007 7:29:23 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: AmericanMade1776

I was hoping Ron Paul could find a party...


The “Stark Raving Loony” Party?

***Monty Python Reference***


74 posted on 12/23/2007 7:31:49 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: SoCalPol

Ron Paul also supported by White Supremacist.


75 posted on 12/23/2007 7:32:02 PM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776
The lawmaker said the U.S. is moving toward “corporatism.” He also lashed out at a system in which those are criticized as unpatriotic who do not support the war in Iraq or the Patriot Act.

Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.

Adolf Hitler

Whos the Facsist ?

76 posted on 12/23/2007 7:32:11 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (Global Warming : A perpetuation of Lies Levied onto sheep to give up their Fleece)
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To: Grizzled Bear

Works for me.


77 posted on 12/23/2007 7:32:28 PM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776

“nd yet, this: “Paul’s current district, which includes Galveston and reaches into” the “Brazoria County, draws a substantial amount of federal flood insurance payments.”

Presumably this means people had paid for flood insurance if they were getting payments. You do understand Flood Insurance is a BINDING CONTRACT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE HOMEOWNER which the government is now paying, as legally obligated to?


78 posted on 12/23/2007 7:33:19 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: AmericanMade1776

One characteristic of fascism is that ownership of property is allowed, but its use is heavily restricted and regulated by the government.

We’ve been drifting toward fascism for years now. That doesn’t mean Paul isn’t a nutball, though.


79 posted on 12/23/2007 7:34:18 PM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: tips up

ditto.


80 posted on 12/23/2007 7:36:06 PM PST by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
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To: inkling

Sometimes this is called projection.


81 posted on 12/23/2007 7:36:25 PM PST by Binghamton_native
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To: savedbygrace

No... the Jury is in, and Ron Paul is a NUT.


82 posted on 12/23/2007 7:36:31 PM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776
Repeat after me children:

President Paul

President Paul

President Paul

President Paul


83 posted on 12/23/2007 7:36:38 PM PST by Revolting cat! (We all need someone we can bleed on...)
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To: xrp

Sorry, that’s a glib thought, not an accurate one.

School choice - freedom from failing schools
Lower Taxes - freedom to make own economic decisions
Foreign policy - freed Eastern Europe from Communism - freed Afghans from oppressive islamo-fascim - freed Iraqis from murderous thug government.

And the other party? What do they do that enhances liberty? When was the last time you even heard a Democrat talk about Freedom? Half of them worship freedom’s enemies - the Castros, the Chavez’s, Putin KGB-thug-of-the-year.


84 posted on 12/23/2007 7:39:01 PM PST by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: AmericanMade1776
“No... the Jury is in, and Ron Paul is a NUT.”

A jury of one is probably something the founding fathers did not have in mind.

You make a lot of loud comments and insults, but don’t seem to actually debate in intelligent terms any of the points made on this thread. Can you?

Describe the technical definition of fascism. Has the US moved in this direction or away from in in the last 20 or 10 years? If the US more resembles this model now than 20 years ago, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Corporatism - do you feel the FDA has become more or less friendly to major pharmaceutical companies over the last 10 years? Take into consideration the number of drugs fast-tracked, and the number of products made over-the-counter.

85 posted on 12/23/2007 7:40:36 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: AmericanMade1776

That’s what I said.


86 posted on 12/23/2007 7:41:04 PM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: WoofDog123; AmericanMade1776

I forgot to ask you about the elephant in the living room of corporatism - our trade policy with china, supported by both parties (both presumably awash in chinese money, given republican apparent refusal to pursue the matter in the Cox Report or even now with the Hsu event).


87 posted on 12/23/2007 7:42:35 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: Theresawithanh
I want to know what “softer” fascism is.

Technically, fascism is a form of government in which the means of production are regulated and directed by government agencies. In essence, fascism is the modern successor to mercantilism, wherein kings granted special monopolies to the enterprises of their friends and supporters. Some American colonials were especially angered by such arrangements and after victory sought to prevent the development of a strong central government which would have power to grant boons and banes. These were the anti-federalists. Federalists, like Hamilton, wanted a strong central government and a central bank to favor and protect their business interests.

Today, both major parties are composed largely of those who would use the government to support their financial interests. Thus, the friendly revolving door between lobbying firms and congressional offices. We have developed permanent public-private partnerships or in the older term, industrial-state committees.

That we don't have an especially heavy-handed police state makes for a certain "softness".

88 posted on 12/23/2007 7:43:06 PM PST by yatros from flatwater
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To: AmericanMade1776

"Softer fascism" illustrated.

89 posted on 12/23/2007 7:43:56 PM PST by Tall_Texan (No Third Term For Bill Clinton!)
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To: traviskicks

But he has gotten donations from neo-nazis.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_its.html


90 posted on 12/23/2007 7:45:08 PM PST by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: tips up

Isn’t there a corollary of Godwin’s Law that applies here?


91 posted on 12/23/2007 7:46:07 PM PST by Uriah_lost ("I don't apologize for the United States of America," -Fred D Thompson)
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To: sgtyork

I suspect that Paul’s philosophy is that people can believe whatever they want as long as they don’t break the law, and anyone can contribute to him who is legally eligible to.


92 posted on 12/23/2007 7:46:59 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: AmericanMade1776
“White House hopeful Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) said Sunday that the U.S. is moving toward fascism, stating that corporations are increasingly “running the show” and citizens are being deprived of their liberties. “

To a great degree I agree with him here. The internationalist globalist network of corporate interests has goals antithetical to the best interests of America.

But on foreign military policy he is too isolationist.

He really seems to believe that if America just withdraws from the Middle East, the Islamic nut-jobs will leave us alone. That displays a naivete and ignorance of history which is difficult to understand in a man of his stature.

93 posted on 12/23/2007 7:47:21 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: Larry Lucido
Ayn Rand would have kicked his ass. “Corporatism,” indeed.

Learning From Microsoft's Error, Google Builds a Lobbying Engine
6/20/07 Washington Post
When it comes to lobbying, Google does not intend to repeat the mistake that its rival Microsoft made a decade ago.
Microsoft was so disdainful of the federal government back then that it had almost no presence in Washington. Largely because of that neglect, the company was blindsided by a government antitrust lawsuit that cost it dearly.


Today, unfortunately, it is a critical requirement of doing business in this country to be in bed with the government, especially the larger the company. Some companies use government to their advantage, others just cough up enough to keep them moderately off their backs. My FRiend, Facism and Socialism in some form are upon us, as they have been since the New Deal. I don't think Rand would disagree at all.
94 posted on 12/23/2007 7:49:06 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: sanjacjake

$cienPaulogy


95 posted on 12/23/2007 7:50:34 PM PST by isom35
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To: WoofDog123; sgtyork
I suspect that Paul’s philosophy is that people can believe whatever they want as long as they don’t break the law, and anyone can contribute to him who is legally eligible to.

yea he more or less said that when asked about it on Neil Cavuto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrRtZaG63o8
96 posted on 12/23/2007 7:53:02 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: ZULU

“But on foreign military policy he is too isolationist.”

In an imaginary world where Paul is elected, obviously there would be no overnight withdrawal from the world stage, there is simply too much inertia, legal restrictions, congressional votes, etc. But to play with the idea...

The US is at this moment a tremendous world power and creating a power vacumn would not be a good thing, short or long-term. China and Russia would be happy to fill some of it, and numerous despotic regimes that are very friendly to us might end up being toppled (Egypt, for one), which would certainly hurt US interests as well.

Iran could end up with much more influence in Iraq than they are going to get anyway, which would further alter the equation. Our presence in Asia being removed from Japan, ROK, and other locations would be a sea-change event as well.


97 posted on 12/23/2007 7:53:25 PM PST by WoofDog123
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To: WoofDog123

...into consideration the number of drugs fast-tracked......

So the FDA is in the tank for the pharma companies? Of course the counter-argument is that for decades the FDA has caused needless death through an over cautious bureaucratic approach to drug approval. http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/reg18n2c.html

It also makes development of drugs more expensive that it would have to be.

........number of products made over-the-counter......

And if I as a consumer, don’t have the governement forcing me to engage the service of a physician to get a drug that cannot harm me, isnt that expanding my freedom?


98 posted on 12/23/2007 7:54:07 PM PST by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: WoofDog123

And others can draw the conclusion from this nexus of neo-nazis and truthers that a candidate presents a danger to the centrist, freeom-loving, body politic.

http://townhall.com/blog/g/daee4a40-84ee-4c50-b1bc-98604e232cc0


99 posted on 12/23/2007 7:57:40 PM PST by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: sgtyork

“So the FDA is in the tank for the pharma companies? Of course the counter-argument is that for decades the FDA has caused needless death through an over cautious bureaucratic approach to drug approval.”

Agreed, but my question was to compare the FDA of 20 years ago to the FDA today? Are they more responsive to market needs of Pharmaceutical companies?

The number of OTC drugs has certainly been convenient. Has it helped the pharma companies as well?

Please don’t get the impression I am partial to either the FDA or the related multinational corporations. The original question dealt with corporatism, and I was addressing that aspect.

BTW, thanks for answering my posts to americanmade1776, who doesn’t seem to respond in any rational way.


100 posted on 12/23/2007 7:59:42 PM PST by WoofDog123
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