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Paul Won't Rule Out Run as Independent (views on Civil War)
Wash Post ^ | 12-24-2007 | Goldfarb

Posted on 12/24/2007 10:11:44 AM PST by wardaddy

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To: Non-Sequitur
"ROTFLMAO! And the rebel attack on the garrison in Sumter had nothing to do with it I suppose?"

In hindsight that was certainly a mistake. But it was legal.

201 posted on 12/24/2007 3:44:09 PM PST by antinomian (Show me a robber baron and I'll show you a pocket full of senators.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Seems weird a CW professor would miss that, although my history of the period right after the civil war was hazy but I can’t imagine that in 1867 there were many justices that were Pro-South/Secession at the time, and the vote was still split with 3 dissenters.


202 posted on 12/24/2007 3:48:47 PM PST by rb22982
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To: rb22982

Make that 1869, not 1867.


203 posted on 12/24/2007 3:49:50 PM PST by rb22982
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To: jrooney

Post a quote where I said this. I did not. You are an idiot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Apparently you are correct, I am an idiot! The words were actually used by Moose4 in a response to your post. I can only offer my humblest apology and throw myself on the mercy of the court, it was an honest, although needless and careless mistake.


204 posted on 12/24/2007 3:53:52 PM PST by RipSawyer (Does anyone still believe this is a free country?)
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To: wardaddy

Ron Paul must think he is another Ross Perot. He is in for a very sad awakening!


205 posted on 12/24/2007 3:55:42 PM PST by Continental Soldier
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Exactly!

The Clintons never forget a lesson learned, and the 3rd party pickoff play was their only ticket to the WH in ‘92 and thus ‘96.

As I’ve said on many occasions, I believe McCain’s already sold his soul to the Clintons and will go 3rd party when the Evil Pair command him. He can’t ever win, so he may as well get some suck-up from liberals and wishy-washy pubs in trade for a nice pat (stab) on (in) the back from President Hillary on his way out of politics...

Then they’ll destroy him after he has served his purpose (think Joe Leiberman)


206 posted on 12/24/2007 3:59:43 PM PST by Husker8877
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To: Gondring
Remember that every single slave coming into the country came in on NORTHERN-flagged ships.

That's an absurd claim. Most slaves were imported before the Revolution, and they came in on foreign-flagged ships.

207 posted on 12/24/2007 4:00:32 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: Non-Sequitur

Non-sequitor is an exquisitely chosen name I see! The fact that I used a different word which means basically the same thing changes nothing. The fact that there are powers prohibited to the states changes nothing. Where is the power to prevent secession granted to the federal government and where is the power of secession denied to the states. Unless you can come up with more your post is meaningless. The real question is always, where is the power granted to the federal government. As you yourself say, if it is not delegated to the federal government, nor prohibited to the states, it is reserved to the states or to the people.


208 posted on 12/24/2007 4:04:25 PM PST by RipSawyer (Does anyone still believe this is a free country?)
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To: Husker8877

I would follow ROn Pauls campaign contributions. My bet is there is Clinton money going there.


209 posted on 12/24/2007 4:06:52 PM PST by EQAndyBuzz (Hunter Thompson in 08.)
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To: ReignOfError; Gondring
"Remember that every single slave coming into the country came in on NORTHERN-flagged ships."

That's an absurd claim. Most slaves were imported before the Revolution, and they came in on foreign-flagged ships.

I think you're both wrong. Slaves were brought under many flags and a substantial portion came in Yankee ships. Look up the history of Newport, Rhode Island sometime.

The Yankees didn't come to dominate the trans-atlantic slave trade until the British began intercepting non-american slave ships. That wasn't until three decades after importation of slaves into the US was banned.

210 posted on 12/24/2007 4:17:23 PM PST by antinomian (Show me a robber baron and I'll show you a pocket full of senators.)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Paul is a liberal creep IMO.


211 posted on 12/24/2007 4:24:30 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Huck
Of course you quote Jefferson, who wasn’t even involved in the drafting or ratification of the Constitution. Jefferson, who basically advocated occasional anarchy and mayhem. Of course you do.

Of course I do. As you know, Mr. Jefferson's statements (quoted above) are consistent with the public statements of Mr. Madison (who definitely was involved in the drafting and ratification of the Constitution ;>) and others, as well as with the specific written terms of the Constitution, the ratification documents of several of the States in question, and other historical documentation.

(As you have noted, we've been through this before, so I doubt you'll change your mind, no matter what documentation I produce. Your loss, IMO... ;>)

212 posted on 12/24/2007 4:35:58 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ( "He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike." - John Locke, 1690)
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To: Non-Sequitur
And the rebel attack on the garrison in Sumter had nothing to do with it I suppose?

You are assuming (via your use of the term "rebel") that State secession was unconstitutional. Care to prove that point? Please quote for us the specific clause of the United States Constitution that prohibits State secession. Until you prove secession was unconstitutional, the "attack on the garrison in Sumter" will more properly be considered the eviction of foreign military forces from the territory of the sovereign State of South Carolina.

;>)

213 posted on 12/24/2007 4:47:24 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ( "He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike." - John Locke, 1690)
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To: antinomian
True, but winning or losing says nothing about the justice of the cause.

No, but truly just causes are worth fighting for until victory is achieved. Obviously the Southern rebellion wasn't one of those.

To believe otherwise is to deny the principle of self government.

The Southern states had self government, and also had a disproportionate level of influence in the federal government. But that wasn't enough for them.

214 posted on 12/24/2007 5:30:48 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: antinomian
In hindsight that was certainly a mistake. But it was legal.

And what rule of law allowed them to fire on a federal garrison in a federal fort?

215 posted on 12/24/2007 5:31:26 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: rb22982
Seems weird a CW professor would miss that, although my history of the period right after the civil war was hazy but I can’t imagine that in 1867 there were many justices that were Pro-South/Secession at the time, and the vote was still split with 3 dissenters.

But 5 justices voted for the majority, which was what it took. The fact that some dissented is meaningless. Four justices dissented in Bush v. Gore.

216 posted on 12/24/2007 5:33:57 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: RipSawyer
The fact that I used a different word which means basically the same thing changes nothing.

No, what you did was insert a word - explicitly - which appears nowhere in the amendment...and nowhere in the body of the Constitution. And in doing so you tried to imply the existence of something which doesn't exist.

Where is the power to prevent secession granted to the federal government and where is the power of secession denied to the states.

Where is the power to leave without the consent of the other states granted? Congress had the power to admit states and to approve any changes in status once allowed in. Implied in that is the power to approve their leaving.

The real question is always, where is the power granted to the federal government.

Article I, Section 10 and Article IV, Section 3.

217 posted on 12/24/2007 5:39:31 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
"And what rule of law allowed them to fire on a federal garrison in a federal fort?"

A much more apprpriate question would be: 'What rule of law allowed the federal government to occupy the territory of South Carolina, following the secession of that State from the federal union?'

(Please see my Post #213 above, addressed to you... ;>)

218 posted on 12/24/2007 5:48:37 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ( "He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike." - John Locke, 1690)
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To: antinomian

You mean like druges are outlawed?


219 posted on 12/24/2007 5:56:44 PM PST by DB
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To: DB

Where’d that ‘e’ come from? ;-)


220 posted on 12/24/2007 5:58:23 PM PST by DB
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