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Exchanges in Latest Debate Highlight a New Dynamic in the Republican Field (Fred Thompson)
NY Times ^ | January 11, 2008 | MICHAEL COOPER and MICHAEL LUO

Posted on 01/10/2008 11:51:32 PM PST by neverdem

Fred D. Thompson tried...

--snip--

But it was Mr. Thompson’s performance, in which he shook off the laid-back style that has defined his candidacy, that provided...

“This is a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party and its future,” said Mr. Thompson, who has staked his run on a strong showing in South Carolina. The primary there is Jan. 19.

“On the one hand,” he said, “you have the Reagan revolution, you have the Reagan coalition of limited government and strong national security. And the other hand, you have the direction that Governor Huckabee would take us in. He would be a Christian leader, but he would also bring about liberal economic policies, liberal foreign policies.”

Mr. Thompson then lit into Mr. Huckabee, the former Baptist preacher and Arkansas governor who won the Iowa caucus, for wanting to close the prison at Guantánamo Bay, for supporting what he called “taxpayer-funded programs for illegals” and for wanting to sign a law restricting smoking.

“That’s not the model of the Reagan coalition, that’s the model of the Democratic Party,” he said.

--snip--

Mr. Thompson leavened his responses with the kind of one-liners that many supporters had hoped he would use sooner.

Asked about the United States response in a confrontation with Iranian speedboats, Mr. Thompson said, “I think one more step and they would have been introduced to those virgins that they’re looking forward to seeing.” At another point, he offered that “you can tell that the news is good coming out of Iraq because you read so little about it in The New York Times.”

He also went after Mr. McCain on immigration.

“I disagree with my friend John McCain on the bill that they proposed last year,” Mr. Thompson said. “I disagree with my friend Governor Huckabee...”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; election; elections; fred; fredthompson; gop; sc2008; thompson
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To: TornadoAlley3

Well he put one right between elmer fudd’s (huckabilly’s) eyes last night. huck got knocked the **** out!

LLS


101 posted on 01/11/2008 4:36:04 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims and vote Fred!)
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To: TomGuy

Sustainable like a nuclear reaction... try to stop one of those!

LLS


102 posted on 01/11/2008 4:36:52 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims and vote Fred!)
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To: TomGuy

huck’s a pu$$y.

LLS


103 posted on 01/11/2008 4:37:24 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims and vote Fred!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Was that you that I heard screaming Yeeee Hiiiii!!!! last night when Fred planted that roundhouse on goober’s chin?

LLS


104 posted on 01/11/2008 4:39:37 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims and vote Fred!)
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To: americanophile
I’m sure the NYT would love nothing more than if we nominated Fred Thompson. He was good tonight, but he has no chance in the general.

How do you know? Neither do the others "in general" unless Obama is the Dem nomination.

105 posted on 01/11/2008 4:41:12 AM PST by madison10
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To: leadhead
McCain...last in his class at USNA, flight school, etc. and he will remain consistant...last in his class.

I didn't know that. I learn something new and icky about McPain every day!

Who's left? A Bob Newhart or Gomer Pyle lookalike? A Ronco whathisname oven salesman?

I love this..."a Ronco oven salesman"...Hahahaha! What a great line!

The choices both R & D are slim, how can Fred not win?

Since I can't have Hunter (whom I truly like!) Fred's looking good! I didn't watch but sounds like he had a fantastic night!

106 posted on 01/11/2008 4:41:37 AM PST by CAluvdubya (I won't stop supporting Hunter until he tells me to...GO HUNTER '08)
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To: americanophile
Each of the candidates has deep flaws, but in MY opinion, there are only 3 nationally viable candidates: Giuliani, Romney and McCain.

Sure your name isn't americanaphobe? Any one of those candidates is the MSM choice for a loser needed to go up against the Dem.

107 posted on 01/11/2008 4:44:06 AM PST by madison10
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To: americanophile
I think everyone here underestimates both Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and the unmitigated fervor of the liberals in the country to “take back” the White House.

______________________________________________

Everyone but you, right?

Some of us (many in fact) have been following national politics for decades, we see things pretty clearly.

Hillary is giving us all the talking points we would need against an increasingly unlikely Obama nomination. Her win in NH can be attributed in substantial part to the realization by dem voters that Obama has zero qualifications beyond the appeal to co-eds, welfare moms and stupid White women.

Remember the Swiftees? Their work will pale in comparison to what is waiting down the road for Hillary. Every week of her run will be spent dealing with the publicity of another scandal from her past. Kerry had one issue and it derailed him. The depth and diversity of Hillary issues will keep her dancing as fast as she can. She can't handle the pressure (as we've seen the past two weeks). She will get real ugly real fast.

FDT nailed every single question with an exhibition of a multi-level understanding of each issue; and he did it with humor, grace and charm. He would clean Obama's or Clinton's clock in any one on one.

108 posted on 01/11/2008 4:45:13 AM PST by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: americanophile
Look I think the enthusiasm for Fred is great, if he’s your guy, but I think everyone here underestimates both Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and the unmitigated fervor of the liberals in the country to “take back” the White House.

Well then, I'm sure you'll just bend over and kiss your a$$ goodbye.

And as far as Fred being [our] guy, the owner of this forum has endorsed him so I guess there aren't any 'ifs' about it.

109 posted on 01/11/2008 4:48:23 AM PST by bcsco (Huckleberry Hound - Another dope from Hope!)
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To: wtc911

Americanofil has gone silent - had to get back to middle school classes.


110 posted on 01/11/2008 4:50:24 AM PST by Pittsburgher (Fred: the elephant in the room)
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To: neverdem
My wife was a magna cum laude speech major and now in marketing. She pointed out that the Huckster appears to have been carefully coached by speech coaches, so that his vocal mannerisms and style of delivery closely mimic Ronald Reagan's.

However, she added, he isn't a very good actor, and occasionally the mask slips off and you see the 'real' Huckleberry underneath.

She stayed up 'till midnight watching the analysis and reruns of the debate. *VERY* rare for her to stay up that late.

She also said that Ron Paul looks like someone found him wandering at a bus stop, and he was completely underdressed for the debate.

Cheers! Full Disclosure: GO FRED!

111 posted on 01/11/2008 4:51:26 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: americanophile
Each of the candidates has deep flaws, but in MY opinion, there are only 3 nationally viable candidates: Giuliani, Romney and McCain.

So you prefer a RINO to a true conservative. That's tells us everything we need to know. You're in the wrong forum. You belong over at Huffington.

112 posted on 01/11/2008 4:52:42 AM PST by bcsco (Huckleberry Hound - Another dope from Hope!)
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To: All

Fred did great tonight. What concerned me is Frank Luntz’s survey group. The vast majority of them thought Fred was the clear winner yet a lot of them will still not vote for him because they say its too little too late. This tells me that Fred still has a lot of work to do to let these people know it’s not too late.

Their primaries are still eight days away. I hope there’s going to be another debate between now and then. Does anyone know if there is? I can’t wait to see Fred debate again!!

One thing that bothers me that no one picked up on is Ron Paul’s idiocy in regards to the Iranian speedboats. He said something to the effect of “Does anyone think that these little speedboats can hurt American destroyers?”. Hello Ron Paul!!! Have you ever heard of the U.S.S Cole? I believe that is a destroyer and it was hit by a small craft filled with explosives. Probably a speedboat or something similar. There were 17 sailors killed and many more injured. I wish someone would have pointed that out to him. So the answer to Paul’s question is yes American destroyers can be hurt by little speedboats packed with explosives. Especially if someone like you were president!!

I thought that Brit Hume had the best smackdown on Paul when he asked him who he was railing against in his mindless rants. Paul sets up a strawman and then goes on to attack him. Like all the candidates are bloodthirsty out to whack the whole world of Islam.


113 posted on 01/11/2008 4:53:21 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: americanophile
I’m sure the NYT would love nothing more than if we nominated Fred Thompson. He was good tonight, but he has no chance in the general.

Sing it with me, boys and girls:

Troll, troll, troll your post
Gently down the thread
You're stuck with the Governator
What was that you said?

114 posted on 01/11/2008 4:54:19 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: americanophile
Look I think the enthusiasm for Fred is great, if he’s your guy, but I think everyone here underestimates both Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and the unmitigated fervor of the liberals in the country to “take back” the White House.

The last thing you'll find on this forum is anyone underestimating the depths to which the klintoon machine and dhimmicrats in general, will stoop to regain control.

115 posted on 01/11/2008 4:55:49 AM PST by concretebob (If liberals aren't traitors, their only defense at this point is they are incredibly stupid)
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To: CAluvdubya

Trust me, he was GRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


116 posted on 01/11/2008 4:58:31 AM PST by concretebob (If liberals aren't traitors, their only defense at this point is they are incredibly stupid)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
lot of them will still not vote for him because they say its too little too late.

I caught that as well, and my first reaction was a well-reasoned "B***S***"!!!!!
How can it be too late, we just got started.

117 posted on 01/11/2008 5:01:24 AM PST by concretebob (If liberals aren't traitors, their only defense at this point is they are incredibly stupid)
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To: bcsco; americanophile
Each of the candidates has deep flaws, but in MY opinion, there are only 3 nationally viable candidates: Giuliani, Romney and McCain.

Please enlightne us as to FDT's flaws, if you would be so kind.
What is it about FDT that you find un-conservative or un-likeable, or whatever criteria you are using to judge a candidates electability.
We wait in breathless anticipation for your enlightening elucidation.

118 posted on 01/11/2008 5:05:22 AM PST by concretebob (If liberals aren't traitors, their only defense at this point is they are incredibly stupid)
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To: concretebob

“I caught that as well, and my first reaction was a well-reasoned “B***S***”!!!!!
How can it be too late, we just got started.”

I agree with you, but its Fred’s (and ours to a lesser extent) job to convince these people that its not too late. That it’s just starting.


119 posted on 01/11/2008 5:05:29 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

I believe the next Republican debate is on 1/24, so no, no more until after South Carolina.

That’s not so bad though... a lot of people think he won the debates on the 5th and 6th too. Going into the SC primary largely held to be the winner of the last 3 debates doesn’t sound bad to me! Fred can do it, and he’d kick Hillary/Obama’s ass in the general and seriously educate the public while he was at it which we desperately need, the OP writer is an idiot :)

Qwinn


120 posted on 01/11/2008 5:08:38 AM PST by Qwinn
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To: grey_whiskers
She also said that Ron Paul looks like someone found him wandering at a bus stop,

with a plastic wristband on his arm from the nervous hospital.

121 posted on 01/11/2008 5:10:03 AM PST by concretebob (If liberals aren't traitors, their only defense at this point is they are incredibly stupid)
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To: americanophile
With all due respect, I think FR is a ceaselessly pro-Thompson campaign machine...I’m just trying to bring some alternative viewpoints, and if “shut up” is the best defense of Thompson against the doubts of a fellow Republican...then you’re all grossly unprepared to deal with the attacks that will come from the left.

All we have from you so far is an 'Ain't so!' assertion. We're waiting for your first argument. For reference, please see: this argument definition.

122 posted on 01/11/2008 5:15:29 AM PST by Ghengis (Of course freedom is free. If it wasn't, it would be called expensivedom. ~Cindy Sheehan 11/11/06)
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To: Politicalmom

Will you please add me to your Fred pinglist?


123 posted on 01/11/2008 5:16:40 AM PST by EarthBound (Ex Deo,gratia. Ex astris,scientia (Fred/Duncan - dream team))
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To: Politicalmom

He did very well last night. Its what I’ve been waiting for since he announced, as I explained yesterday when you ask me about ‘hectoring Fred’.

He done good.


124 posted on 01/11/2008 5:19:07 AM PST by Badeye (No thanks, Huck, I'm not whitewashing the fence for you this election cycle)
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To: concretebob

I’m assuming you know those weren’t my remarks...


125 posted on 01/11/2008 5:19:22 AM PST by bcsco (Huckleberry Hound - Another dope from Hope!)
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To: HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath

‘Wow, maybe Fred does want to be President.’

Thats exactly what my wife said three minutes into the debate last night. I agree.


126 posted on 01/11/2008 5:20:04 AM PST by Badeye (No thanks, Huck, I'm not whitewashing the fence for you this election cycle)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Ron Paul’s idiocy... “Does anyone think that these little speedboats can hurt American destroyers?”...

A true idiot and should never be anywhere near the White House!

127 posted on 01/11/2008 5:25:13 AM PST by CAluvdubya (I won't stop supporting Hunter until he tells me to...GO HUNTER '08)
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To: americanophile; neverdem

That has to be one of the most disingenuous editing jobs I’ve ever seen. I’m a HUGE fan of Thompson. But starting out with “Fred Thompson tried...”, leaving off that the sentence was about how his campaign is (supposedly) dead... that’s beyond the pale.


128 posted on 01/11/2008 5:28:58 AM PST by dangus
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To: neverdem

Fred finally makes some news by attacking, and the media covers it. I’ve been saying the lack of coverage is due to lack of newsworthiness. It’s about time, Freddy. He needs to slam McCain and Mitt just as hard, but this is a good start for Fred. Any more debates before the SC vote?


129 posted on 01/11/2008 5:33:53 AM PST by Huck (Ok, I'll sneak in a few posts here and there and try to stay out of trouble.)
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To: Huck

“He needs to slam McCain and Mitt just as hard, but this is a good start for Fred.”

He did slam McCain once when discussing the immigration issue and he brought up McCain’s immigration bill. However, he really needs to slam Huckabee the most because they are going after the same voters in SC and these voters need to know that other than pro life, pro gun and moral family values, Huckabee does not have anything in common with them beyond these issues. Fred pointed this out succinctly last night.


130 posted on 01/11/2008 5:38:45 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

It’s a good start, but he needs to hammer McCain and Romney as well. Fred’s in 4th place. He needs to hammer them all, just like he hammered Huckabee. I don’t think he’s got it in him to hammer McCain (who he supported in 2000), but he ought to. And look at the publicity it generates. He should have been doing this back in IA, and in New Hampshire. A lot of time got lost while he got defined by others.


131 posted on 01/11/2008 5:47:27 AM PST by Huck (Ok, I'll sneak in a few posts here and there and try to stay out of trouble.)
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To: neverdem

I think Fred hit his stride last night. Everyone has had to acknowledge that he was the clear winner in last night’s debate. He has momentum from this now. Iowa & New Hampshire were flukes.

Thompson & Romney need to knock McCain & Huckabee out, so they can then concentrate on taking Rudy out.


132 posted on 01/11/2008 5:49:06 AM PST by alicewonders
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To: americanophile
With all due respect, I think FR is a ceaselessly pro-Thompson campaign machine...

No, it's a conservative forum. Since only one conservative was invited to last night's debate... well, you do the math.

133 posted on 01/11/2008 6:01:05 AM PST by pgyanke (Duncan Hunter 08--You want to elect a conservative? Then support a conservative!)
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To: explodingspleen
Good idea, yes?

Good idea. Yes.

Don't do it again.

I'm all for reason, and maturity....but only when its my idea.

134 posted on 01/11/2008 6:03:32 AM PST by laotzu
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To: americanophile
He was good tonight, but he has no chance in the general.

In a debate with Hillary he would wipe the floor with her. Just which of these guys do YOU think is most "electable?"

135 posted on 01/11/2008 6:11:42 AM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Politicalmom

I would like to be added to the ping list.
Thank you!


136 posted on 01/11/2008 6:12:05 AM PST by BonneBlue
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To: Pajamajan

BUMP for Fabulous Fred


137 posted on 01/11/2008 6:23:03 AM PST by b9 (~ simply Fred ~)
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To: americanophile
I’m sure the NYT would love nothing more than if we nominated Fred Thompson. He was good tonight, but he has no chance in the general.

I'd rather have a true conservative in the mold of Hunter or Thompson as the Republican standard-bearer than try to run our liberal against their liberal. Elections are about contrasts and giving the public real choices. Picking between two liberals is not a valid option. There can be no excitement generated to encourage people to get out and vote if there's not a dime's worth of difference between the candidates.

I'd rather vote for the true conservative and take my chances on the rest of the general public agreeing with me. It worked for Reagan. The parallel you're advocating would compare to the Carter/Ford election. If you have two liberals, why not vote for the Democrat one because at least they support their party platform.

138 posted on 01/11/2008 6:24:03 AM PST by Retired COB (Still mad about Campaign Finance Reform)
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To: neverdem

Thompson bump. Thanks for the ping ND.


139 posted on 01/11/2008 6:24:28 AM PST by Delacon (Don't Immanentize the Eschaton.)
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To: americanophile

Giuliani vs. Democrat: by the time his past is laid out in all its glory, who can tell the difference? He cannot go after the Democrat on social policy, his is the same. He might win a few points on foreign policy, but not enough. States across the South would be in play with him as our nominee.

Romney: As much as it should not, his religion hurts him where he should be strong. He cannot take on the Democrat on much of anything with out them being able to play a sound bite showing he supported the same thing fairly recently. He has more net negatives in polling than even Hillary.

McCain: As soon as the media turns on him and his true record of opposing the tax cuts, the Gang of 14, Keating 5, and others is brought up, he would be lucky to win Alabama.


140 posted on 01/11/2008 6:27:56 AM PST by Ingtar (I find it amazing how deciding to run for president changes a man's stands on issues)
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To: neverdem

Perhaps the most salient thing that Fred advanced last night was the fact that, while the other candidates have been falling all over themselves to reform themselves, particularly on the illegal aliens issue, he hasn’t changed at all.
What you see is what you get: a conservative.

McCain’s assertion that he will be strong on securing our borders: $100
Mike’s position that he will reduce spending: $150.00
Romney’s opposition to higher taxes: $200
The rhinosaurus in the commercial for the medicine to fight rhino-virus, just after Hannity interviewed Giuliana: Priceless!


141 posted on 01/11/2008 6:39:05 AM PST by tumblindice (Following Paul's debate antics, ReynoldsAlcoa stock drops 5 points)
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To: americanophile

“But...it’s a discussion forum right? Don’t you want to hear other opinions, or should we all just write laudatory comments about Fred Thompson ad infinitum?”

Certainly, so don’t shut up. But do indeed think.

Thompson has about as good a chance as anyone. As do all the Dem candidates against each other, though I think they are being the most cannabalistic of the two parties.


142 posted on 01/11/2008 6:45:36 AM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Rick_Michael
We’ve had some weird newbies lately, don’t you think?


143 posted on 01/11/2008 6:46:37 AM PST by Pistolshot (Those with a lively sense of curiosity learn something new every day of their lives.)
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To: americanophile

I think that if you want to discuss, providing an explanation of what facts inform your opinion about Thompson in the general election would provide a better chance for us to discuss those facts.

We could first debate whether the facts are actually true, and then we could debate whether those facts can rationally lead to your conclusion.

Simple statements of opinion are mostly useless for a discussion, because others simply express their opinion back, and there’s nothing to actually debate over.

Usually debates that start that way quickly become personal attacks, because the only thing to “debate” is whether the person giving the opinion has any credibility, and to win THAT argument you have to attack the other’s credibility.

Anyway, that’s my two cents, not just for you but really for everybody who posts. Provide facts, give your rational argument supporting your conclusions, and let’s discuss them.


144 posted on 01/11/2008 7:00:35 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: americanophile
With all due respect, I think FR is a ceaselessly pro-Thompson campaign machine....

FR is a pro Reagan Coalition "machine".

And that coalition has a proven track record.

145 posted on 01/11/2008 7:01:42 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("Sincerity is everything. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made." Groucho Marx)
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To: tumblindice
Perhaps the most salient thing that Fred advanced last night was the fact that, while the other candidates have been falling all over themselves to reform themselves, particularly on the illegal aliens issue, he hasn’t changed at all.

But he has!

His passionate demeanor is the welcome needed change.
We need more FRED! He lit up the whole campaign!

146 posted on 01/11/2008 7:03:19 AM PST by b9 (~ simply Fred ~)
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To: Yaelle

Coming in late here but I agree with your statement 100%!!!
Thompson/Hunter 08????????


147 posted on 01/11/2008 7:03:41 AM PST by FlashBack (www.proudpatriots.org/www.woundedwarriorproject.org/www.moveamericaforward.org)
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To: JennysCool

Hey, let’s get in a pissin’ match about who’s been here the longest!
/sarc


148 posted on 01/11/2008 7:05:13 AM PST by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: americanophile
This despite the fact that he run a terrible, lazy-man's campaign, he's losing in the primaries to people like Ron Paul, he has no money, and South Carolina is widely regarded as his last stand before dropping out (and endorsing McCain).

You're merely regurgitating the MSM's talking points. And the MSM Fears The Fred!

149 posted on 01/11/2008 7:17:39 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("Sincerity is everything. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made." Groucho Marx)
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To: neverdem; SierraWasp; Ernest_at_the_Beach; PhilDragoo; Jim Robinson

Freddie’s back!

Sounds like a classic Freddie nightmare for the Rinos last night.


150 posted on 01/11/2008 7:18:10 AM PST by Grampa Dave ("Ron Paul and his flaming antiwar spam monkeys can Kiss my Ass!!"- Jim Robinson, Sept, 30, 2007)
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