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Ron Paul and the Lodestar of Liberty
American Thinker ^ | January 14, 2008 | Bruce Walker

Posted on 01/14/2008 8:04:27 PM PST by forkinsocket

Ron Paul is not a nut. He is honorable and intelligent. I have talked with Congressman Paul about politics and policies. He is consistent and principled. Much of what he says is true. The Constitution is routinely ignored by politicians of both political parties. Government spending, particularly entitlements, is wildly out of control. The crucial constitutional concepts of federalism and limited government are tacitly denied and this denial is the crux of many of our social and political problems.

But Ron Paul holds the vain hope that American government would return to constitutional law anytime soon, even if he did win the presidency. Congress, the judiciary, legal education, and tradition have imparted momentum to the living constitution school of thought. Bring about an actual return to the Constitution requires more than a snap of the president's fingers. Federal courts routinely "interpret" the Constitution in ways directly in conflict with the plain language of the document. At best, a president can only appoint judges the Senate will confirm and wait for natural turnover.

A lot of persuasion is necessary before Americans (including our elites and their institutions) change their way thinking. We in fact still need a crusade to change hearts and minds more than a candidacy.

And if we are going to return to first principles, remember that the Constitution is not the foundational document of our American experiment in individual liberty. It was preceded by the Articles of Confederation. Prior to the Articles of Confederation, which were adopted after independence, the Continental Congress acted as the original government of the United States and successfully waged a war against the great superpower on the planet with very little real authority. The fundamental principles of American government were established long the Constitution was adopted.

What does matter is the Declaration of Independence. The divine endowment of all people with liberty comes directly out of this document of 1776 and it is to this document that serious friends of liberty should look for inspiration and restoration. And what was the Declaration of Independence? It was, in effect, a declaration of war against the British Empire.

It was not an isolationist document but a universalist document. It speaks, pointedly, to the rest of the world. It talks about the reasons that governments are formed (not just our government.) It was bold, sweeping, and international. And it was seen by the rest of the world as just that: A revolutionary document for all peoples, even if it applied specifically only to thirteen embattled colonies in North American.

Ron Paul wants to return us to the Constitution, as if it were a sacred document which granted us freedom. Our spiritual lodestar should be the Declaration of Independence, which remains a much more dangerous, much more powerful, and much more relevant document to our times.

Some policies Paul proposes are admirable. Why do we still have armies in Germany and in Korea, when both are rich, modern industrialized nations? Why does government have to do so much and why does "government" more and more mean centralized government in Washington? Why have a tax code which punishes productivity and which requires contortionist behavior from business?

But other parts of Paul's policies simply do not fit our age. The notion that we should disengage from the Middle East, for example, suggests that Israel is "just another nation," like, say, North Korea or Syria. The foundation of the Jewish state was based upon the undeniable facts of history continuing, dreadfully, through the Holocaust, that Jews are not "just another people," but are rather a persecuted people who were not welcome when escaping Nazified Europe. Ignoring that is ignoring salient history.

Likewise, the stark contrast between Israel and its neighbors (except, until the last three decades, the successful state of Lebanon) cannot be ignored, and the murderous intent of neighbors who seriously read in large numbers Mein Kampf and the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is also a grim, absolute fact of the modern world. The notion that, on paper, Israel can make peace with these neighbors is not just pure theory, but it is theory which has failed the test of experience.

Paul also seems to doubt that people wish to do America harm because it is America, and that nuclear weapons change everything. Ever since H.G. Wells first used the term "atomic bomb" in his science fiction stories more than a century ago, it has become almost inevitable that true, horrific global war power was inevitable. Happily, America acquired fission weapons and then fusion weapons first. Happily also, America has had leaders willing to use that power to protect our nation and allies who would otherwise be unprotected.

And, as we learned from the Japanese in the Second World War and from radical Moslems today, the calculus of economic benefits and political rights which works very well in moderating and balancing the behavior of most people, simply does not work with everyone. Does anyone doubt that the Japanese would have used the atomic bomb on American cities or that radical Moslems will use thermonuclear bombs on America, if they can, even if it means massive casualties in our retaliation?

Liberty can no longer stand safely behind two vast oceans and decent men can no longer ignore their human brethren after Hitler, Stalin and Mao. As Lincoln today might have said "This world cannot long endure half slave and half free." This was also perhaps the greatest victory of the greatest conservative leader of our age: Ronald Reagan. Congressman Paul might recall the Gipper's Cold War strategy: "How about this: We win; they lose?"

Ronald Reagan, like Abraham Lincoln, understood the supra-constitutional importance of liberty in the fulfillment of America, and liberty to them meant more than just the liberty of American citizens. If the ideal which is America is to survive the totalitarian impulse which we see not only in North Korea and the Taliban, but among the Leftists in our own nation, then we need to recapture the fortitude of Washington, the vision of Lincoln and the clarity of Reagan. If we can do this and preserve the vestiges of the Constitution, fine.

But the vision of America is much more than the Constitution. It is much more than Congressman Paul sees. What Ron Paul proposes is not bad or dishonest. It is simply no longer enough for liberty and decency to survive in America or in the world.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: ronpaul
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To: RussP
"I think this article was captured my view of Ron Paul well. I don’t think calling him crazy serves any good purpose. He is right on many domestic issues, but he is out to lunch of foreign policy."

exactly... his foreign policy stance is completely naieve, which is typical of many Libertarians and why I always end up voting for a repub. Still, i'm happy he ran...ran off with mucho dollars from stupid leftists who heard one issue they agreed with him on.

101 posted on 01/15/2008 7:15:12 AM PST by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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To: forkinsocket

I only skimmed those quotes on the other thread... but what I saw... I couldn’t say I disagreed with...

Maybe it would help if you sorta posted them one at a time... so we can see which ones YOU are complaining about...


102 posted on 01/15/2008 7:34:32 AM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: RachelFaith
I only skimmed those quotes on the other thread... but what I saw... I couldn’t say I disagreed with...

Maybe it would help if you sorta posted them one at a time... so we can see which ones YOU are complaining about...

I'm sorry, are you talking to me or is this a general statement? I don't understand your post.

103 posted on 01/15/2008 8:04:28 AM PST by forkinsocket
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To: forkinsocket; SoCalPol; RussP; FreeInWV; kinoxi; All

Some of Paul sponsored and co sponsored liberal legislation.

In 1987, he wrote that the United States should not have a national immigration policy and “should welcome everyone who wants to come here and work.”

H.CON.RES.160 : Recognizing the historical significance of Juneteenth Independence Day, and expressing the sense of Congress that history should be regarded as a means for understanding the past and solving the challenges of the future. Sponsor: Rep Davis, Danny K. [IL-7] (introduced 5/19/2005) Cosponsors (69)

H.RES.233 : Recognizing the important relationship between the United States and Mexico. Cosponsors (5) Latest Major Action: 9/5/2001

H.R.189 : To repeal the National Voter Registration Act of 1993.
Sponsor: Rep Stump, Bob [AZ-3] (introduced 1/3/2001) Cosponsors (22)

H.R.415 : To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to encourage new school construction through the creation of a new class of bond. Sponsor: Rep Sanchez, Loretta [CA-46] (introduced 2/6/2001) Cosponsors (23)

6. H.RES.12 : Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the United States Postal Service should issue a postage stamp commemorating Juan Nepomuceno Seguin.
( WHO?) : Rep Green, Gene [TX-29] (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors (8)

H.RES.208 : Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives regarding the systematic human rights violations in Cuba committed by the Castro regime and calling for the immediate removal of Cuba from the United Nations Commission on Human Rights. Sponsor: Rep Foley, Mark [FL-16] (introduced 4/30/2003) Cosponsors (24)(He wouldn’t vote for the same against Iran!)

H.RES.315 : Congratulating Rafael Palmeiro of the Texas Rangers for hitting 500 major league home runs and thanking him for being a role model for the Cuban American community, as well as for all Americans.
Sponsor: Rep Sessions, Pete [TX-32] (introduced 7/9/2003) Cosponsors (14)

H.R.217 : To ensure that a Federal employee who takes leave without pay in order to perform service as a member of the uniformed services or member of the National Guard shall continue to receive pay in an amount which, when taken together with the pay and allowances such individual is receiving for such service, will be no less than the basic pay such individual would then be receiving if no interruption in employment had occurred. Sponsor: Rep Wexler, Robert [FL-19] (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors (97) (Only federal employees deserve this bonus????)

H.R.731 : To render all enrolled members of the Tohono O’odham Nation citizens of the United States as of the date of their enrollment and to recognize the valid membership credential of the Tohono O’odham Nation as the legal equivalent of a certificate of citizenship or a State-issued birth certificate for all Federal purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Grijalva, Raul M. [AZ-7] (introduced 2/12/2003) Cosponsors (119)(this is how some tribes offer citizenship to illegal aliens!)

H.RES.730 : Recognizing the efforts and contributions of The Women’s Museum: An Institute for the Future.
Sponsor: Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice [TX-30] (introduced 3/16/2006) Cosponsors (16)

H.RES.760 : Supporting the goals and ideals of National Clean Beaches Week and recognizing the considerable value of American beaches and their role in American culture.
Sponsor: Rep Pallone, Frank, Jr. [NJ-6] (introduced 4/4/2006) Cosponsors (59)

H.RES.1049 : Recognizing Ann Richards’ extraordinary contributions to Texas and American public life and offering condolences on her passing. (Fan of Ann Richards????)
Sponsor: Rep Ortiz, Solomon P. [TX-27] (introduced 9/27/2006) Cosponsors (12)

66. H.R.437 : To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 500 West Eisenhower Street in Rio Grande City, Texas, as the “Lino Perez, Jr. Post Office”. (Who? The Hispanic caucus wants it, so it must be okay!)
Sponsor: Rep Cuellar, Henry [TX-28] (introduced 1/12/2007) Cosponsors (31)

83. H.R.643 : To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide for collegiate housing and infrastructure grants.
Sponsor: Rep Jones, Stephanie Tubbs [OH-11] (introduced 1/23/2007) Cosponsors (168)(That will reduce the cost of government! lol)

H.CON.RES.206 : Recognizing the important relationship between the United States and Mexico.
Sponsor: Rep Paul, Ron [TX-14] (introduced 7/31/2001) Cosponsors (8)
Committees: House International Relations
H. CON. RES. 206
Recognizing the important relationship between the United States and Mexico.

H. CON. RES. 277

Recognizing the important contributions of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

November 19, 2001

Mr. PAUL submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Energy and Commerce

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION Recognizing the important contributions of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.
Whereas the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce of the United States has had a significant impact [snip]

http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/search?q=Ron+Paul+co+spon


104 posted on 01/15/2008 10:10:10 AM PST by AuntB (" DON'T LET THE PRESS PICK YOUR CANDIDATE!" Mrs. Duncan Hunter 1/5/08)
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To: preacher

Are you suggesting that the election of a paleobirdbrain like paleoPaulie would protect the RTKBA???? First he won’t be nominated much less elected. Secondly Dr. Demento doesn’t know how to tie his shoes and you can rely on his incompetence to do anything effective for the RTKBA or anything at all other than ineffective yak-yak and gulling the suckers which are his only specialties.


105 posted on 01/15/2008 12:31:19 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: fortheDeclaration; kinoxi
FTD: Actually, conservatives despise paleoPaulie, Al Qaeda's mouth in America when he isn't lying about other things.

Diployak! Diployak! Dance to the muuuuusic!

How is Dr. Demento doing in the actual caucuses and primaries????

106 posted on 01/15/2008 12:35:08 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Soliton; Extremely Extreme Extremist
you are a polite young man aren't you? Ron Paul is your role model, is he?

Hmmm, odd that you let the term "Paultard" go by without comment . . .

107 posted on 01/15/2008 12:36:12 PM PST by ksen ("For an omniscient and omnipotent God, there are no Plan B's" - Frumanchu)
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To: fortheDeclaration

PaleoPaulie and the paleowhatevers ARE moonbats, surrender monkeys and traitors. El Run Paulie has NO ideas and whatever he may claim as ideas has no merit whatever. There is no point in pretending otherwise.


108 posted on 01/15/2008 12:38:26 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Did not South Korea just have an election and throw out the quisling one-term pro-communist butt smooching party? Even if they did not, we have an investment in blood and money in South Korea and have every right not to let the North Korean communist tyranny of Kim Mentally Ill Jong expand. Of course, as a paleowhatever, you probably have a problem with permanent principles in foreign policy such as our American commitment to destroy communism. So what? Why should patriots care what paleos hallucinate??? Thank you for running Dr. Demento and allowing conservatives a good look at his demented excuse for “ideas.”
109 posted on 01/15/2008 1:18:06 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: AuntB

L Ron Paul is so obssessed about puling back from the world
and hunker down and pretend there are no enemies,
— he is like a person whose home is on fire and busy making a list
of what is constitutionaly correct to do and not do and while obssessed with that his home burns down.


110 posted on 01/15/2008 1:28:04 PM PST by SoCalPol (Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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To: fortheDeclaration

“When and if China wants to retake Formesa, it will do so and we will not be able to stop it”.

>>>>Perhaps, or perhaps like the soviets sitting poised to take western Europe they’ll think twice if we have a presence.

“Moreover, a war against China, short of nuclear in that region would be a disaster for us.”

>>>>Exactly, so by staying in the region we prevent disaster and perhaps even nuclear war. It would be a disaster for the entire world, but that never stopped people like Hitler before and it won’t stop madmen in the future. Sticking your head in the sand won’t change that.

“As for South Korea and the Philippines and human rights-come on now, you are kidding right?”

>>>>>I lived in South Korea for a year. While it made me immensely thankful for our country, it doesn’t hold a candle to China’s. North Koreans are starving to death so that their soldiers can eat and ill leader can keep his large army poised to strike should the occasion warrant.

“The South Koreans think we are the problem and want to reconcile with North.”

>>>>>Uh-huh...only it’s ALOT more complex than that...if they reconciled, what govt would take hold? As long as the U.S. is there, it sure won’t be communist. On the other hand communist China wouldn’t exactly care to have another Formosa/Japan/Phillipines on it’s doorstep in (North) Korea to inflame it’s own population with how miserable a faiulure communism is, with the latest example being Korea. Besides, I’ve heard this before with Germany. Germany reconciled and well lookie there, they’re a free people now, and we weren’t the problem after all! IN FACT once Rumsfeld offered to pull U.S. troops out of Germany and move them to a more grateful area like Poland the Germans had a fit and demanded we STAY!

“Besides it is China that is funding our WOT by buying our bonds”.

>>>>>Oh I get it, now YOU are kidding right?


111 posted on 01/15/2008 1:28:26 PM PST by tpanther
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To: BlackElk
PaleoPaulie and the paleowhatevers ARE moonbats, surrender monkeys and traitors.

My parents were Nixon Republicans. They believed in smaller government (which Nixon didn't give them), lower taxes (ditto), the outlaw of abortion (which was beyond Nixon's authority), the preservation of individual rights and liberties (including the Second Amendment), and the securing of our borders (not a big issue during that time, but Mom and Dad would have been for closed borders). They applauded when Ford pardoned Nixon, while the rest of the country (and all of the Walter Cronkite-style establishment media) ranted and cursed.

I am the son of Nixon Republicans both in my genes and my ideas, but it appears that the party has little time for me. You see, Elk, there are a few reasonable people out there (like me) who supported Ron Paul because it looked like he might be a candidate who was actually willing to do something about the size of government and its encroachment on personal liberty, willing to close the borders and let the rest of the world bear its fair share of the responsibility for leading itself.

Whatever you think of Paul, these ideas are not bad ones. They're certainly subject to debate, but that never happens on FR any more, particularly in threads where Paul's name occurs. Be that as it may, if the Republican Party would actually put those ideas on the agenda instead of just taking the conservative issues voter for granted, Ron Paul and his ilk would never have come up, would never have been a problem, would never have stepped onto the national stage.

No doubt this post of mine will cue another round of name-calling. I hope not, but I expect no better.

Go ahead and dismiss Paul. But if we can't discuss candidates, let's discuss ideas. Remember back in '94 when Gingrich & Company were going to dismantle the Deparment of Education? That was a good idea. Republicans have had the power to do that now for almost two full terms, and yet it hasn't even been on the table.

What would it take to get that idea on the table?

112 posted on 01/15/2008 1:37:03 PM PST by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: fortheDeclaration

Ummmmmm... the point was the USSR went bankrupt long BEFORE the U.S. did. And Reagan knew that.

But then most people got that the first time.


113 posted on 01/15/2008 1:41:36 PM PST by tpanther
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To: fortheDeclaration

reason...

arguments...

What irony when dealing with the Ru Pauly’s! :)

It’s like trying to reason with two year olds.


114 posted on 01/15/2008 1:44:49 PM PST by tpanther
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To: fortheDeclaration

Uh-huh.

Playing this thing through...to the end...it comes down to the lesser of two evils. I’ve already seen where most Paul support lies once he’s eliminated.

Which leads sane people right back to why didn’t he just register as a libertarian (like he did before) or just a democrat?


115 posted on 01/15/2008 1:47:39 PM PST by tpanther
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To: fortheDeclaration

Like we’ve said over and over, the blame America tactic isn’t an idea that floats, except perhaps on the far left.

All his other ideas are overshadowed.


116 posted on 01/15/2008 1:49:36 PM PST by tpanther
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To: Oberon

We keep saying he’s got alot of good ideas, but his bad ideas are so far out there that what few times he does make sense, he’s making himself his own worst enemy.


117 posted on 01/15/2008 1:59:21 PM PST by tpanther
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To: tpanther
We keep saying he’s got a lot of good ideas, but his bad ideas are so far out there that what few times he does make sense, he’s making himself his own worst enemy.

Well, maybe. Regardless, I'm pretty sure he's done for this election, so it's all moot.

My theme here is my tagline, as it has ever been.

118 posted on 01/15/2008 2:15:07 PM PST by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Oberon

Yup, quite depressing actually. My candidate Duncan Hunter isn’t doing any better.


119 posted on 01/15/2008 2:18:17 PM PST by tpanther
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To: tpanther
Like we’ve said over and over, the blame America tactic isn’t an idea that floats, except perhaps on the far left. All his other ideas are overshadowed.

And as we have said over and over, he is not 'blaming America' he is pointing out unforeseen consequences of foreign policy decisions.

This is not about 'blaming America first' this is about 'putting America first'

120 posted on 01/15/2008 2:54:53 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: tpanther; Extremely Extreme Extremist
Uh-huh. Playing this thing through...to the end...it comes down to the lesser of two evils. I’ve already seen where most Paul support lies once he’s eliminated. Which leads sane people right back to why didn’t he just register as a libertarian (like he did before) or just a democrat?

Well, it is that smug, condescending attitude that is going to lead many Ron Paul Republicans to ignore pleas to support conservatives like Thompson in the primaries if Paul drops out.

You guys are about as far thinking as the neocons are in their foreign policy, making enemies when you should be attempting to build alliances.

121 posted on 01/15/2008 3:00:29 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: tpanther
Ummmmmm... the point was the USSR went bankrupt long BEFORE the U.S. did. And Reagan knew that. But then most people got that the first time.

Yes, the Soviets went bankrupt due to excessive military spending.

And so will the U.S. if it doesn't stop overspending.

122 posted on 01/15/2008 3:02:11 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: tpanther
[“When and if China wants to retake Formesa, it will do so and we will not be able to stop it”.]

>>>>Perhaps, or perhaps like the soviets sitting poised to take western Europe they’ll think twice if we have a presence.

The soviets were worried about our attacking them in an all out nucleur war.

[ “Moreover, a war against China, short of nuclear in that region would be a disaster for us.” ]

>>>>Exactly, so by staying in the region we prevent disaster and perhaps even nuclear war. It would be a disaster for the entire world, but that never stopped people like Hitler before and it won’t stop madmen in the future. Sticking your head in the sand won’t change that.

So, you are willing to fight a nucleur war over Formesa?

[ “As for South Korea and the Philippines and human rights-come on now, you are kidding right?” ]

>>>>>I lived in South Korea for a year. While it made me immensely thankful for our country, it doesn’t hold a candle to China’s. North Koreans are starving to death so that their soldiers can eat and ill leader can keep his large army poised to strike should the occasion warrant.

And who was comparing the two, ofcourse a communist country is always far worse.

But there is still a great deal of 'human rights' abuse going on in S. Korea.

[ “The South Koreans think we are the problem and want to reconcile with North.” ]

>>>>>Uh-huh...only it’s ALOT more complex than that...if they reconciled, what govt would take hold? As long as the U.S. is there, it sure won’t be communist. On the other hand communist China wouldn’t exactly care to have another Formosa/Japan/Phillipines on it’s doorstep in (North) Korea to inflame it’s own population with how miserable a faiulure communism is, with the latest example being Korea. Besides, I’ve heard this before with Germany. Germany reconciled and well lookie there, they’re a free people now, and we weren’t the problem after all! IN FACT once Rumsfeld offered to pull U.S. troops out of Germany and move them to a more grateful area like Poland the Germans had a fit and demanded we STAY!

What are you babbling about!

The S.Koreans want to reconcile with the North.

They see U.S. forces as a hinderence to that.

As for Germany asking for U.S. forces to stay, why not, they are putting alot of money into the German economy and it means less defense spending by the Germans.

[ “Besides it is China that is funding our WOT by buying our bonds”. ]

>>>>>Oh I get it, now YOU are kidding right?

No, that is a fact.

China is buying U.S. debt.

Mainland China and Hong Kong bought $177 billion of U.S. debt in the first seven months of 2003. Chinese holdings in the U.S. debt have more than doubled since 2001. Other countries holding major investments in the U.S. debt include Japan, the United Kingdom, Caribbean Banking Centers, Germany and Korea.

China’s stake in our nation’s finances is particularly significant because it is using its holdings to undervalue the American dollar and manipulate its own currency, the yuan. That helps the Chinese economy grow and takes jobs away from U.S. manufacturers, Tanner said.

http://www.house.gov/tanner/press108-101.htm

123 posted on 01/15/2008 3:12:12 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: BlackElk
Did not South Korea just have an election and throw out the quisling one-term pro-communist butt smooching party? Even if they did not, we have an investment in blood and money in South Korea and have every right not to let the North Korean communist tyranny of Kim Mentally Ill Jong expand. Of course, as a paleowhatever, you probably have a problem with permanent principles in foreign policy such as our American commitment to destroy communism. So what? Why should patriots care what paleos hallucinate??? Thank you for running Dr. Demento and allowing conservatives a good look at his demented excuse for “ideas.”

Does S.Korea need U.S. troops to defend it?

The United States has been there for over 50 years-do you think that is long enough?

124 posted on 01/15/2008 3:13:52 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: BlackElk
PaleoPaulie and the paleowhatevers ARE moonbats, surrender monkeys and traitors. El Run Paulie has NO ideas and whatever he may claim as ideas has no merit whatever. There is no point in pretending otherwise.

I think returning to a policy of limited Government is a very good idea.

But all conservatives talk about that until their pet spending, Defense comes up, and then the government cannot get too large for them.

125 posted on 01/15/2008 3:16:35 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: BlackElk
FTD: Actually, conservatives despise paleoPaulie, Al Qaeda's mouth in America when he isn't lying about other things. Diployak! Diployak! Dance to the muuuuusic! How is Dr. Demento doing in the actual caucuses and primaries????

So far, better then Thompson.

126 posted on 01/15/2008 3:17:57 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: Oberon
You are apparently feeling disrespected. Being a Nixon Republican, as were your parents, was better than being a McGovern Commiecrat or Demonrat. That does not mean that the Eisenhowers and Nixons were anything resembling ideal or even the best that could be elected. Eisenhower and Nixon and many of their followers were, at best, soulless squishball moderates and pragmatists and made careers of compromising until there was little left to compromise.

Eisenhower kissed soviet patoots with regularity as SHAEF commander. He was a military bureaucrat with little in the way of combat experience, named president of Columbia University after the war, nominated by dishonest tactics over Taft in 1952, urged by Truman to run as the Democrat POTUS candidate, stabbed Joe McCarthy with regularity, betrayed the Hungarian Revolution which occurred near simultaneously with similar events in Czechoslovakia, Poland and other captive nations, and gave us "Modern Republicanism" which was New Deal Democrat policy in elephant drag. He balanced a few budgets if anyone cared. Call that Main Street "conservatism." Green eyeshades, sleeve garters, clip coupons off bonds in the back room at the Civic Booster (strictly local) Bank & Trust. Yawn.

The best thing Nixon ever did was to bring up his daughter Julie and it is a shame that she never ran for the Senate from Pennsylvania. Other than that, Nixon loved the art of the deal with Chairman Mao, with Brezhnev and with anyone whomsoever. He very obviously disdained the idea of Ronaldus Maximus as POTUS since Ronaldus was not one of the sellout State Department loving, Glasnost enthusing establishmentarian types to whom Nixon sold his political soul at the outset. He wrote decent and informative books after he resigned. OTOH, he absolutely unforgivably appointed Herod Blackmun to SCOTUS, tried to appoint a lavender queen named G. Harold Carswell to SCOTUS and generally talked a good game while delivering little but rhetoric. Ironically, Carswell's nomination was defeated BEFORE he was arrested on his knees in a country club men's room. If you like smaller government, do you recall Nixon's wage and price controls and his monkeying with the money supply??? Then there was the choice of Feckless Ford (a Demonrat tamed puppy if ever there was one) to replace Spiro Agnew in the VP office. Once Agnew was gone and Ford was installed, Demonrats had no reason to avoid prompt impeachment. So long as Agnew was VP, the Demonrats were going to be quite reluctant to remove Nixon. He fed Agnew to the Demonrats and was himself the next item on their menu. Then Ford appointed Rockefeller himself as VP just in case we doubted the continuation of Ike's "Modern Republicanism." Charitably speaking, under Nixon and then Ford, government spenders lost no sleep worrying over losing their regular allowance increases.

You correctly credit Feckless Ford for pardoning Nixon. We had heard enough of Nixon for one lifetime and did not need a criminal trial. Then again, there was WIN: Whip Inflation Now! and some dairy product distribution program to subsidize farmers. Lett's not forget the tactics Ford used to barely postpone Ronaldus Maximus for four years and the fact that Ford gave us Carter, the toppling of the Shah, permanent Middle East troubles, whining in place of policy, giving away the Panama Canal, and being, until death overcomes him, a permanent antiAmerican foreign policy nuisance, and an ex-president who reflexively apologizes for every enemy of our country, and a buddy of Castro, of Ugo Chavez, of Ahmanutjob and a host of other international cretins.

Now, taking as Gospel truth every word you posted, you don't REALLY think that paleoPaulie could possibly reduce spending by the federals, do you??? First he would have to be nominated. You know that he never will be. Then he would have to be elected. That isn't happening either, as I suspect you know. If those two impossibilities were somehow achieved, anything he tried by way of spending money on anything other than our nation's defense, would be overturned by Congress. If he refused to spend money appropriated (impounding the funds), SCOTUS ruled back in Nixon's administration that impoundment is unconstitutional. I don't agree but my preferences on the subject or yours or paleoPaulie's mean nothing when SCOTUS almighty has ruled, as 50+ million slaughtered babies have found out the hard way since Roe vs. Wade.

Whatever you may think of moving the Berlin Wall to our Southwestern border areas, paleoPaulie was opposed to that twenty years ago when he was a more honest libertarian. Today, he just votes against appropriations to build a border fence while posing for holy pictures as though he wanted to close the border.

Whatever you may think of abortion or whatever paleoPaulie may yak yak interminably while posing for pro-life holy pictures, he refuses to DO anything federally about it. I don't care how many babies he delivered and I don't care what he thinks as a person. I care what he would DO as POTUS and the answer is he wouldn't do jackspit! Likewise as to marriage, the ordinary kind: one man, one woman, no household pets, no twelvesomes, no space aliens (whatever his curious imaginings as to the constitution).

All that Dr. Demento could possibly achieve as POTUS (which ain't gonna happen in any event) is surrendering everywhere, pulling American troops from everywhere, castrating the American military, ruining the chances to ban abortion and pervert marriage and permanently ruin the GOP by being more of a fool than Carter only in the name of the GOP. Consider Dr. Demento dismissed.

Note that I have not called YOU a single name.

That having been said, I see your proposal to abolish the Department of Education and I raise it to propose the absolute separation of school and state by abolishing each and every heathen ignorance factory known as a gummint skewel here in the entire 50 states and national territories. Then we can move on to abolish Energy Department, most welfare programs, HUD and a wide variety of other wastes of tax money and we should strive to abolish their state counterparts as well. But......

First, beef up the military, win the WOT dramatically and permanently (like, say, the Third Punic War), abolish abortion and protect marriage as noted above. Each takes priority over minimizing the size and scope of gummint. BTW, if you think bordermania is not going to cost you and everyone else their civil liberties, you are mistaken. That is not an insult. It is just the truth.

Nothing but nothing will get to the table via paleoPaulie. His presence in politics is an impediment to your agenda. The coupling of foreign/military policy cowardice with libertarianism does libertarianism no favors. We have learned our lessons on 12/7/41 and on 9/11/01 and we ain't going back.

Lead, follow or get out of the way.

127 posted on 01/15/2008 3:43:22 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: fortheDeclaration
How is the Paulistinian Dr. Demento doing in getting his treason weasel self actually nominated??? Any non-traitor could be nominated at a brokered convention. PaleoPaulie, as a paleopeacecreep, does not qualify and need not apply.

It's nice that you favor limited government and, who knows, maybe someday when we are not busy slaughtering our enemies, when the world is a safe place, when the lions have lain down peaceably with the lambs or in their graves (whatever!), when babies are not being slaughtered by the millions just for being babies, when Lance and Bruce know they need to live in another country to "marry", to utilize the nether end of the digestive system as though it were an organ of sexuality or enjoy the perks of marriage, when street crime is crushed and when the military is rebuilt to an unchallengeable strength, maybe we can start on lesser issues like reducing gummint in which case, end gummint skeweling first (not just the federal Department of Edjumakashun). Meanwhile, we have not reached the point where blunderbusses, sabers and letters of marque and reprisal can be substituted for High Frontier, death from the sky, nuclear boomer submarines, other real weapons and the restored Pentagon. Our figurative swords are not about to be beaten into plowshares. You may not care for the waging of war against those who have or would attack us but that is one of the very few legitimate excuses for government.

If you don't like that, then exile yourself into libertoonianism and stop hallucinating that you are anything vaguely resembling conservative.

128 posted on 01/15/2008 3:58:22 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: fortheDeclaration
50 years (actually nearly 60 years) is entirely too long but that length was dictated and the future length is dictated by Truman's refusal to conquer the north and to do it as the US and not under the UN. We could have taken out the Chicoms in the process but noooooo. Interventionism is the American way, not isolationist cowardice or internationalist globaloney. When necessary, war under whatever auspices is better than a phony peace. If two lions and one lamb vote on what's for dinner, the main ingredient will be lamb.

We certainly should not punish South Korea for returning to a sensible pro-Western stance by removing the troops at the DMZ. When the communist bosses of North Korea are dead and when the place has been rehabilitated and disarmed and is ruled by the South, then we can talk withdrawal.

129 posted on 01/15/2008 4:06:10 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: fortheDeclaration

Repudiate the bonds that the Chicoms hold and see how their economy grows then. Aply the nterest bot paid to the American military. Retake Hong Kong if possible (and it is). If one Chicom soldier sets one boot on Taiwan, make Beijing a nuked memory. China is loooooong unfinished business.


130 posted on 01/15/2008 4:10:55 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk

I’d say you are about the opposite of a conservative. Force and violence are your first options, just like a liberal.


131 posted on 01/15/2008 4:19:04 PM PST by Cruising Speed
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To: fortheDeclaration

America has done more for this world in spreading freedom than other countries combined.

And you want to bring us selfishly home?

We’re never going to be perfect. But taking our ball and going home every time a thug is a thug is not only wrong-headed but it’s dangerous for Americans!


132 posted on 01/15/2008 4:31:49 PM PST by tpanther
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To: fortheDeclaration

Hardly...from what I’ve seen there simply aren’t any to worry about in the first place.

Paul or no one at all, or in some cases the hypocrat in order to teach us meanies a lesson, isn’t what I would call best interests of the country.


133 posted on 01/15/2008 4:33:29 PM PST by tpanther
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To: fortheDeclaration

If anything the U.S. is underspending on the military.


134 posted on 01/15/2008 4:34:14 PM PST by tpanther
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To: fortheDeclaration

The soviets were worried about our attacking them in an all out nucleur war.

>>>>As well as conventional, chemical and biological.

(What they miss teaching world history in public schools these days is simply breathtaking!)


135 posted on 01/15/2008 4:35:56 PM PST by tpanther
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To: fortheDeclaration

China is buying U.S. debt.

>>>>which doesn’t mean they’re somehow funding the war on terror.

And by jamming our head in the sand and depleting our military, and retreating back to the westen hemisphere, that addresses the humongous Chinese military buildup HOW exactly?


136 posted on 01/15/2008 4:38:50 PM PST by tpanther
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To: fortheDeclaration

Does S.Korea need U.S. troops to defend it?

Yes, they have more than one enemy, each quite larger.

The United States has been there for over 50 years-do you think that is long enough?

>>>>We haven’t even achieved anything more than a cease fire in 50 years! And ill leader wants to build nukes and when enough people are asleep at the switch and not connecting the dots again...

well, again, history and all...


137 posted on 01/15/2008 4:41:05 PM PST by tpanther
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To: Cruising Speed

Force and violence are your first options, just like a liberal.

It keeps getting stranger...would that be a liberal like John F’n Kerry or Jack Murtha?


138 posted on 01/15/2008 4:46:54 PM PST by tpanther
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
We'd still have a military under Paul. There'll still be a strong national defense and border security. We don't need to stick our noses everywhere and fighting wars that should have been over and done with months ago

Yes, let's just sit back in our gated secure community and mind our own business until all the rogue nations are united and all their nifty new nuclear weapons are pointed at us. That sounds like a lovely strategy.

139 posted on 01/15/2008 4:47:46 PM PST by Elyse (I refuse to feed the crocodile.)
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To: tpanther
[Does S.Korea need U.S. troops to defend it?]

Yes, they have more than one enemy, each quite larger.

The only enemy that S.Korea has is the North.

Stop inventing stuff

[ The United States has been there for over 50 years-do you think that is long enough? ]

>>>>We haven’t even achieved anything more than a cease fire in 50 years! And ill leader wants to build nukes and when enough people are asleep at the switch and not connecting the dots again...

Thats because Korea was a UN operation and the US did not declare war.

So, now we are suppose to garrison it forever?

well, again, history and all...

What does history have to do with the fact that S.Korea should be taking care of its own defense problems?

140 posted on 01/15/2008 9:46:48 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: tpanther
[China is buying U.S. debt.]

>>>>which doesn’t mean they’re somehow funding the war on terror.

They are buying our debt which is paying for the WOT.

And by jamming our head in the sand and depleting our military, and retreating back to the westen hemisphere, that addresses the humongous Chinese military buildup HOW exactly?

What is depleting our military is being stretched all over the globe, defending areas that can be defended by the nations in that region.

141 posted on 01/15/2008 9:48:43 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: tpanther
[The soviets were worried about our attacking them in an all out nucleur war.]

>>>>As well as conventional, chemical and biological.

The Soviets had no fear of us in conventional land warfare.

(What they miss teaching world history in public schools these days is simply breathtaking!)

Yes, I am amazed how one can be so obtuse in understanding recent history.

142 posted on 01/15/2008 9:52:14 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: tpanther
If anything the U.S. is underspending on the military.

We are fighting an enemy with no organized Army, no Navy and no Air Force, but the Defense budget is too small!

143 posted on 01/15/2008 9:55:25 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: BlackElk
Repudiate the bonds that the Chicoms hold and see how their economy grows then. Aply the nterest bot paid to the American military. Retake Hong Kong if possible (and it is). If one Chicom soldier sets one boot on Taiwan, make Beijing a nuked memory. China is loooooong unfinished business.

LOL!

We can't even finish our war in Iraq and you want to take on the Chinese!

144 posted on 01/15/2008 11:16:38 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: BlackElk
50 years (actually nearly 60 years) is entirely too long but that length was dictated and the future length is dictated by Truman's refusal to conquer the north and to do it as the US and not under the UN. We could have taken out the Chicoms in the process but noooooo.

Well, that would have meant declaring a war and winnng it, something we haven't done since WW2.

Interventionism is the American way,

It is!

We didn't start intervening until the Spanish American War.

not isolationist cowardice or internationalist globaloney. When necessary, war under whatever auspices is better than a phony peace. If two lions and one lamb vote on what's for dinner, the main ingredient will be lamb.

You guys would try to find a enemy to fight a war against even in the Millennium.

We certainly should not punish South Korea for returning to a sensible pro-Western stance by removing the troops at the DMZ. When the communist bosses of North Korea are dead and when the place has been rehabilitated and disarmed and is ruled by the South, then we can talk withdrawal.

Yea, in another 50 years, if the US survives that long.

145 posted on 01/15/2008 11:21:15 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: BlackElk
How is the Paulistinian Dr. Demento doing in getting his treason weasel self actually nominated??? Any non-traitor could be nominated at a brokered convention. PaleoPaulie, as a paleopeacecreep, does not qualify and need not apply. It's nice that you favor limited government and, who knows, maybe someday when we are not busy slaughtering our enemies, when the world is a safe place, when the lions have lain down peaceably with the lambs or in their graves (whatever!), when babies are not being slaughtered by the millions just for being babies, when Lance and Bruce know they need to live in another country to "marry", to utilize the nether end of the digestive system as though it were an organ of sexuality or enjoy the perks of marriage, when street crime is crushed and when the military is rebuilt to an unchallengeable strength, maybe we can start on lesser issues like reducing gummint in which case, end gummint skeweling first (not just the federal Department of Edjumakashun). Meanwhile, we have not reached the point where blunderbusses, sabers and letters of marque and reprisal can be substituted for High Frontier, death from the sky, nuclear boomer submarines, other real weapons and the restored Pentagon. Our figurative swords are not about to be beaten into plowshares. You may not care for the waging of war against those who have or would attack us but that is one of the very few legitimate excuses for government. If you don't like that, then exile yourself into libertoonianism and stop hallucinating that you are anything vaguely resembling conservative.

You sure must like the sound of your own voice!

Defense is one of the legimate roles of government-our Defense, not the Defense of the world.

146 posted on 01/15/2008 11:23:41 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: fortheDeclaration

Don[t the people that advocate our continued garrisoning of the world realize that by paying for the defense of other countries we are making it easier for those other countries to become socialist countries since they don’t have defense spending to worry about?

By keeping our troops abroad we are subsidizing the spread of socialism.

Whoops, there I go again . . . blaming America first. :sheesh:


147 posted on 01/16/2008 4:30:46 AM PST by ksen ("For an omniscient and omnipotent God, there are no Plan B's" - Frumanchu)
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To: Drango
After the Paul newsletter disclosures, one would think that the Paultards would hang their head in shame and slink away. Instead they defend the wakadoo and the ugly subculture of the ultra far right. Bizarro.

No offense, but I am surprised to see the phrase "ultra far right" used on FR. I think there are better ways to characterize what you say were the faults of the newsletters. Your phrase seems to suggest there is a peg mark on the conservative spectrum beyond which reasonable minds shouldn't venture - a point at which "right" becomes wrong.

148 posted on 01/16/2008 4:37:05 AM PST by Puddleglum
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To: ksen
Don[t the people that advocate our continued garrisoning of the world realize that by paying for the defense of other countries we are making it easier for those other countries to become socialist countries since they don’t have defense spending to worry about? By keeping our troops abroad we are subsidizing the spread of socialism. Whoops, there I go again . . . blaming America first. :sheesh:

Neocons consider no expense as too great for the U.S. taxpayers to bear to defend the world!

149 posted on 01/16/2008 5:28:09 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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To: All
The firing apparently resulted from pressure by pro-Muslim officials working in the Department of Defense, according to numerous news reports

There is the neocon WOT!

What a farce!

150 posted on 01/16/2008 5:31:17 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (The power under the Constitution will always be in the people- George Washington)
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